Linked by Eugenia Loli on Tue 10th Jan 2006 04:18 UTC, submitted by a little bird via IM
Mono Project Red Hat was the main opponent against the inclusion of Mono on their products or Gnome's core. But this is all past now and Fedora Core 5 will include Mono and some of its front row applications like Beagle and F-Spot will be too. My Take: After I got tipped on Saturday about this, I talked to Mono's founder, Miguel de Icaza, but he seemed to be genuinely unaware of the latest happenings on Rawhide. The great news will hopefully expand Mono and make GTK# the new recommended toolkit for future Gnome applications (although this is just a personal wish at this point).
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RE: I don't get Mono
by zlynx on Tue 10th Jan 2006 07:03 UTC in reply to "I don't get Mono"
zlynx
Member since:
2005-07-20

Mono/.NET benefits: It's a garbage collected virtual machine. That means easy programming and portability, like Java. It's a JIT VM, so that means the portable code is fast. The design learned a lot from Java's mistakes, so it's much faster and the libraries are better.

And my favorite bit: While I wait for one Java application to load, I can launch THREE Mono applications. I seem to be able to fit three Mono applications in the memory space of one Java app, too.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: I don't get Mono
by Matzon on Tue 10th Jan 2006 07:28 in reply to "RE: I don't get Mono"
Matzon Member since:
2005-07-06

Java benefits: It's a garbage collected virtual machine. That means easy programming and portability, like Mono. It's a JIT VM, so that means the portable code is fast. The platform is tried and trusted. It has seen much investment in the VM and the libraries which is why it's superior to Mono.

And my favorite bit: While I wait for one Mono application to load (except it doesn't, or the wrong framework is installed (they dont seem to handle compatibility)), I can launch FOUR Java applications. I seem to be able to fit Four Java applications in the memory space of one Mono app, too!

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: I don't get Mono
by windowsispoo on Tue 10th Jan 2006 12:49 in reply to "RE[2]: I don't get Mono"
windowsispoo Member since:
2006-01-07

Well it's called mono, java is even more than stereo.

Hrm, I like mono but I couldn't resist..
btw mono=monkey in spanish.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: I don't get Mono
by Nathan on Tue 10th Jan 2006 08:48 in reply to "RE: I don't get Mono"
Nathan Member since:
2006-01-10

I dont think your last paragraph is really needed - both .NET and Java have fast and slow applications; the end result simply being an indication of the amount of optimization the application developer has done.

To me there's two reasons Mono is in favour:

- For developers, it fits comfortably in the language spectrum between Python and C/C++ . In other words, its (at least to some of us) more suitable for larger applications than Python, but permits faster development and is less bug-prone than C/C++.

- I'm not up on the specifics, but the .NET platform just seems to be superior to Java in terms of wrapping native C libraries. Gtk# being the obvious example for us linux users.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: I don't get Mono
by cendrizzi on Tue 10th Jan 2006 10:16 in reply to "RE: I don't get Mono"
cendrizzi Member since:
2005-07-08

Yes java is another high level VM. We get it.

However, just discussing mono, and meaning absolutely no offense to java (hint, hint), there many nice things about it.

First, off is C#, which learned a lot from java.

Second, is the .net framework, which is very powerful.

Third, is that many languages can be compiled to CLR and thus you have language compatability and choice.

Fourth, it is used by many windows programmers, this allows windows programmers more access to developing on Linux.

etc, etc

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: I don't get Mono
by segedunum on Tue 10th Jan 2006 11:00 in reply to "RE[2]: I don't get Mono"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

I think you've missed the tongue-in-cheek of the original poster.

Yes java is another high level VM. We get it.

Yes .Net and Mono's CLR is another high-level VM. We get it.

First, off is C#, which learned a lot from java.

First off is Java, of which C# is a clone. Sorry but there is simply nothing compelling in C# for your 9-5 programmer - only to technology wankers. The real gains are made in the framework, which as I'll point out is less than perfect.

Second, is the .net framework, which is very powerful.

Second are the Java classes, which are very powerful. The .Net framework is basically a set of object oriented wrappers around Win32, and many namespaces and classes have incredible deficiencies and differences in usability for the programmer - especially in the way collections are used.

Third, is that many languages can be compiled to CLR and thus you have language compatability and choice.

Third, there are only two languages in use for .Net today - VB and C#, of which C# is the most popular. Because all languages needed to be ported to work with the .Net framework you always end up with a clone of C#, except with slightly different syntax. The selling point of .Net language neutrality has long since faded into obscurity amongst .Net people. Let it go.

Fourth, it is used by many windows programmers, this allows windows programmers more access to developing on Linux.

Fourth, Windows programmers want realistic development options should they move to Linux.

A .Net clone is all very well, but it has to work at least as well as Microsoft's version, be 100% compatible, together with all the development tools they're used to. Giving people a direct comparison between Mono and Microsoft's .Net is a mistake.

Failing that Windows developers would rather see something compelling and and different with tools, suppliers and ISVs to help them port their applications.

etc. etc.

I've never heard so much gibberish, even from an MS salesman selling .Net. What is the Mono community these days? The Microsoft .Net marketing arm?

Edited 2006-01-10 11:01

Reply Parent Score: 0

Vitaliy S Member since:
2005-07-15

>there many nice things about it.
>First, off is C#, which learned a lot from java.

They borrowed several class names, this is really nice ;-)

>Second, is the .net framework, which is very powerful.

Very powerful in what area? MS platform?
If I'd like to run some MS apps on linux,
I would choose wine or crossoffice.

>Third, is that many languages can be compiled to CLR and thus you have language compatability and choice.

This is simply not true. Even MS failed to port VB to .net. What they call VB.net is not a visual basic at all. If you take English language and replace all verbs by Russian it wouldn't become Russian it would be Ruglish.
Same goes for .net all its so called languages are not languages they try to represent.

So, what are the benefits of using mono on linux and especially on GNOME?!!
Why not using Python,Ruby or JAVA?

Regards,
Vitaliy

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: I don't get Mono
by Emerson on Tue 10th Jan 2006 20:58 in reply to "RE: I don't get Mono"
Emerson Member since:
2005-09-19

"It's a JIT VM, so that means the portable code is fast. The design learned a lot from Java's mistakes, so it's much faster and the libraries are better. "

I don't know about memory use, but I think you're giving far too much credit for speed issues. I haven't really looked into it for a bit, but last I checked mono was significantly slower than sun's jvm, which apart from selective benchmarking usually comes in pretty far behind c/c++. I find it to be an acceptable tradeoff for ease in coding, but I think it's somewhat unfair to paint it as if the speed was anything but a "good enough."

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: I don't get Mono
by zlynx on Tue 10th Jan 2006 22:39 in reply to "RE[2]: I don't get Mono"
zlynx Member since:
2005-07-20

I haven't any profiling, but the startup speed of a Mono application seems to be significantly better than a Java application.

Yeah yeah, personal subjective opinion, different applications, etc, etc.

What I can say is that waiting for Jedit to start (the little splash box doesn't work at distracting me) is quite painful, but Muine just appears on screen with a 1 or 2 second delay at most.

To be more fair to Java, I've played with Java 6 a little, and startup time seems better.

I suspect Sun is responding to competition. .NET apps start showing up and suddenly startup speed is important.

Reply Parent Score: 1