DistroWatch reports: “It seems that LindowsOS 4.0 has arrived. While the official product launch won’t happen until Tuesday, the Lindows.com web site has come back to life, ready to sell us their latest and greatest. The information on the product page and also in a recent edition of Michael’s Minutes will take some serious research before we can present it in a clear and concise way, but basically, the cheapest available product is LindowsOS 4.0 for US$49.95 for digital delivery. This is a 2-CD product (installation CD + live LindowsCD).” Update: The first review of LindowsOS 4 is at TuxReports. Update 2: ExtremeTech posted another LindowsOS 4 review.Our Take: I hate it when there is no real information about the product or what’s really new in it, but there is always a big button to actually buy that product. Lindows.com should learn of the Apple way of presenting an OS product.
Oh, and LindowsOS jumped 4 releases, from 1.0 to 4.0 in less than a year. In my book, the evolution between these releases was minimal and this version of Lindows should have been v1.4 or 1.5 at best. But that’s just me.
Eh? Version 4?
There’s no mention of the “pre-release” garbage that Lindows.com touted was their work-around for their GPL obligations.
Does this mean that they are now honouring their obligations?
Any noteworthy new features in 4.0 ?
Hmm, does shiney new icons count?
Lindows 4.0 is based on KDE 3.0. Previous editions of Lindows sported KDE 2.2.
Too bad it’s still behind the curve, though, because KDE 3.1 is a major improvement over 3.0.
Regardless, don’t buy this crap until the company starts playing by the rules of the GPL.
but it may bring about more acceptance of linux.
who knows. …and no, i can’t bring myself to run it either.
I guess im an idiot, but how is Lindows not following the GPL? Nothing looks fishy, but Im probobly wrong.
>>Regardless, don’t buy this crap until the company starts playing by the rules of the GPL.<<
Here’s the answer from their site :
Question
How do I get LindowsOS source code?
Answer
LindowsOS is a combination of many open source building blocks, along with third-party licensed products, and proprietary software and technology which are bundled together to make a complete offering.
In full compliance with the GPL, Lindows.com makes the source code for all the open source pieces available to registered users through the same means they receive LindowsOS.(For example if they download LindowsOS directly from Lindows.com they are also able to download the source code from the same place.)
Registered users are also able to get a copy of the source code by contacting [email protected]. Additional information is also available at http://www.lindows.com/licensing.
Do we now have your OK to buy it?
I like how they released it on Monday, even though they aren’t _releasing_ it until Tuesday. Could Michael be tring to steal some of Apple’s WWDC thunder?
wow those are some pretty hefty system requirements.. 800mhz.. I had debian vanilla running on a 600mhz box and had no troubles with xmms (2% free physical memory when using xmms on lindows) or tux racer.
err misread that about XMMS.. 2.8MB free of 256MB ram.. 2% of 256MB swap used.. which is still extremely bad.. speaking of which — arent you supposed to have 2x more swap than your RAM?
Regardless, don’t buy this crap until the company starts playing by the rules of the GPL.
Gallo, your post deserves to be modded down. You don’t know what you’re talking about. You’re the picture perfect definition of a troll. Show me one instance of Lindows.com breaking the GPL and I’ll eat my hat. Lindows.com writes closed source portions of their own OS, and they are under no obligation to share the source with you.
In the meantime, you’re WRONG this time and your ignorant attitude sucks. Next time, you’ll find your comments modded down.
Depending on what had been done up to that point, simply opening programs and accessing files would get the memory usage up.
Linux caches everything and releases memory as needed. This is a GOOD thing.
Lindows was correctly using all available resources. In this case, for a huge disk cache.
It hurt’s the reviewer’s credibility, IMHO.
And I must say, I have to agree that this is the best Linux for the desktop. Red Hat and SuSE are my picks for servers, but for the desktop, Lindows seems to have gotten it right. They really pay attention to the small details, and you just “feel” it when using it.
Kudos to the Lindows crew.
Oh, and yes, I do have access to the source code, so no GPL violations from what I can tell.
Rz
It hurt’s the reviewer’s credibility, IMHO.
And you came to this conclusion from one paragraph. Gee, I took a lifetime to get there … guess I am a bit slow.
But seriously, since you (Mutiny) are anonymous then your statement is really only as credible as graffiti.
Tag, you are it!
I don’t understand your hostility. I’m merely pointing out an error in the review that I thought should have been known to a “Linux Expert” writing for a credible web site. I learn things every day and when my errors are pointed out nicely, I accept criticism. (bad spelling being one…)
Since you are representing your site, I suggest you do the same.
Here is a link to the first FAQ I could find on the subject. Yes it is PPC related, but it does apply.
http://lppcfom.sourceforge.net/fom-serve/cache/936.html
“Yes, there is a explanation. Most things and most time Linux is caching. Yes memory usage you see is the sum of all things in memory and also the cached datas. Memory used by cache will be reduce when more processes are started. Check it with top it should most the time nearly equal. If you exceed a limit the swap will be activated and Linux will swap out (virtual memory) processes which are idle most the time. Don’t cry it’s all okay! :-)===)”
Yes, I do not post my email. I hate spam.
I do however keep the same username, as you can confirm by a quick search of this site and my logged ip address.
My credibility is in question, as should it be for anyone on the web. However a quick FAQ search should prove my point.
If I am in error, please correct me.
I’ve been using LindowsOS since last October as an insider, and testing the intermediate releases.
Lindows was always able to detect my devices better than any other distro that I tried. I bet that I have tried at least 20. Even a few internal modems (56k)self detected! An external modem was also easy to set up.
The broadband modem that I have – Alcatel DSL USB was a little hard to set up, but I have a DSL modem on the way that can do DHCP. Can’t wait for that.
Click ‘N Run is very easy to use…..doesn’t work 100% of the time….but most of the time it does.
Of course if something isn’t in CNR you can still get it through apt-get or synaptic.
Enjoyed seeing a good review!
“Lindows 4.0 is based on KDE 3.0. Previous editions of Lindows sported KDE 2.2.”
Actually, Lindows 3.0 featured KDE 3.0.1. I believe Lindows 2.0 did too.
Your original post ends with a slam. Does it not? However, I’m sorry if the return fire was too harsh. Maybe that was too strong for me – except that you are anonymous in all respects and your last sentence was not necessary. Regardless, I’ll apologize for being rude.
Now, in terms of my single paragraph that you take exception to you will see that I mentioned opening XMMS and then looking at the Control Center (Info Center) and being surprised. I really didn’t give much detail and the detail may lead one to believe that the middle graph is why I say the product is a memory hog. In fact, you are pointing out that the paragraph itself is poorly written. It is the far left graph, the Used Physical Memory that is important.
However, just to double check the work, I restarted the SuSE Linux 8.2 box next to me, logged in, started KDE Info Center and the Used Physical Memory is 30%. Not bad. The physical memory is actually only 128 MB in that system versus 256 MB in the other.
You are correct that I failed to run KDE system guard, top, or any other monitoring. It would have been wise to run some type of memory graphing monitor. I also didn’t look into the differences in Application, Buffered, Cached, Free, or Used Memory. I also didn’t mention virtual memory paging as done by the kernel. In fact, it was an off-hand comment and stating that I was surprised.
Come to think of it, even this Libranet system (which has been on for 22 days and has about 12 applications running at the moment), is not even close to looking the same in the Information Center as the LOS 4.0 in the computer store. But quite frankly my notes are not very good. Too bad I didn’t think to take a screenshot.
Sadly, I cannot take the drive back to the computer store and recheck things on the Pentium 4 tonight (they are closed). But I just looked at the Info Center as LOS 4.0 sits on the i810, and it is fine.
Now, I’m not an expert on how paging, aging, etc works. However, keep in mind that physical memory that is used, must swap out, and this is a slow process. It is one reason why using more RAM is good for Linux. Simply starting a machine, a session, and then XMMS should not use 256 MB of physical memory (far left graph and not middle graph).
I’ll relook at the paragraph (and read up on Memory Management) and see if I am misleading anyone, including myself. Have a good evening.
If anyone is interested, here is the handbook for the KDE system guard.
http://g.unsa.edu.ar/opt/kde2/share/doc/HTML/en/ksysguard/
Here’s the answer from their site :
Thanks for answering my question, too.
Now for my tuppence:
Lindows.com’s concept is quite sound – they are packaging a distro to suit the “mums and dads” that every review says are not being catered for.
It is a nicely polished product and I am sure that it is fantastic for its target market.
Many people poo-pah Lindows.com for their product, without considering that not everybody is up to using any of the other distros.
The fact is, for the newcomer to either non-Windows operating systems, or to computers in general, that some linux distributions might be too much of a steep learning curve for them. If LindowsOS fits their needs, then kudos to the LindowsOS developers!
As always, there are always more choices, but some people might not have the sweat and time to put into them. This means that LindowsOS appeals to the people that don’t want the flexibility that Linux offers (ie, pick your own everything.)
I see it as a good thing, as it adds one more “credible” option to the arena. It’s probably akin to FreeBSD-ers having Mac OS/X. (Okay, it’s a bad analogy…)
Besides, isn’t one of the freedom ideals being freedom-of-choice?
Thank you for the apology. It is rare to see professionalism in forums. (or in real life)
I truely meant MUCH less harm than my poorly worded comment would lead you to believe. I was simply trying to stop a thread from giving misinformation.
I was taking your comment in the review literally, as did several previous posters. This view did not seem to fit someone with your Linux experience and did mistakenly hurt your credibility in my eyes. For that I apologize.
I am interested in hearing the results of your tests if you do find an issue (or not) with memory usage in Lindows.
Having your words put in stone with no background information or clarification sucks, doesn’t it?
Thanks again,
Mutiny
I still haven’t seen any list of the new features. It has minor upgrades to OOo, switch to Mozilla, anything else?
I’ve not tried Lindows and was wondering what this C: business is. Is it a simplified version of the filesystem, or is C: a link to the Windows partition?
If you look at the lindows.com www site and check the features and apps of the 4.0 release, you notice that there is not a single mention about what window manager they use, what the web browser is or what OpenOffice.org version is included – or whether there is any OpenOffice.org at all! They just say that you can browse the web, send email, read & write MS Office documents and so on. All open source applications and technologies, with the sole exception of the Linux itself, have been hidden.
And at the end of the day, only Linux has any marketing value. Lindows has this right. Their marketing is way ahead of SuSE or RedHat. If other Linux desktop players do not catch up with Lindows’ way of doing this, they are way out of the consumer market.
I finished installing Lindows 4 about an hour ago, and these are the changes I’ve noticed so far:
* default browser is now Mozilla 1.3 (Gecko 20030620) instead of Netscape 7.0
* includes Gaim 0.63
* new icons (unfortunately, it still uses KDE 3.0)
* new boot-up screen
Nothing ground-breaking, but it’s a nice update. It’s 4:20am… I’ll have to see what else is new after a good night’s sleep.
… I must say, I have to agree that this is the best Linux for the desktop. Red Hat and SuSE are my picks for servers, but for the desktop, Lindows seems to have gotten it right.
I haven’t had any chance to use lindows yet, so I don’t know what’s so different about lindoze in comparison to RH and Suse with KDE default. I use SuSe and thought it was good for desktop. I’m not flaming, but I’m just wondering what is so special about Lindows and in what regards it is superior to other distro, besides clicknrun. Simplicity?
The changes that are important to note here are not what sofwares were updated to the latest and greatest. Its the usability factor that is important in an home desktop distro. If you think about it,usability wise, mom and pop wont care if they are using Mozilla 1.2 or 1.4, as long as they are able to surf the net and send email.So, kudos to Lindows for making a baeutiful alternative OS that is very easy to use.
Because the have the balls to take on Microsoft.
Lindows is doing nothing more or less than Red Hat and SUSE are doing on the code level. They enhance a basic version of Linux, put in some applications they make themselves (not under GPL, but also SUSE and Red Hat do the same), and give the less expensive distro available.
Don’t tell me that paying 100$ for SUSE Pro and getting 1 DVD and seven CDs with freeware (nothing else) is better than paying 100$ and getting a Linux Desktop, with the ability to Click’n’Run whatever application you need from the net. And above all, you have a working Desktop operating system that is not only for Geeks.
I have tested Lindows and I found out that I can do whatever I want with it, since I am a computer Geek, but at the same time, my sister that knows only the point and click of Windblows can use it with the same ease. I see no harm in that. In fact by this account it is far better than Suse or RedHat.
And all this from a BeOS guy, who knows what simplicity and power mean.
[And all this from a BeOS guy, who knows what simplicity and power mean.]
I mean me… the writer of the comment
everytime something commercial touches linux people immediately scream “show me the source you GPL violator!!!” is it so hard to believe that companies can right their own code and put it under a proprietary license and not touch a single line of GPLed code?
Lindows is in the business of making money, why should they give you source to anything that they don’t legally have to? Oh, right, because it’s the nice thing to do…well nice seldom turns a profit in the business world, i’m sorry to say, and for this reason, I believe that Lindows will thrive.
it’s not too bad, but X needs to be tuned a little. no gcc, but it does have recent versions of perl and python. it does install quickly. seems like they did some work on cnr, too bad I don’t have the membership since I bought Lindows through a system builder. it’s still pretty cool that they gave us free upgrades, but I guess they’re really selling cnr and not the os.
I’m a little curious why they didn’t ship it with man or info. I can understand that they’re going for a certain audience, but it seems like they’d provide some type of documentation.
“I’m just wondering what is so special about Lindows and in what regards it is superior to other distro, besides clicknrun. Simplicity? ”
Coming from a MS only world, we like to think that there can be only ONE good program, and others have to suck. One program or company has to WIN over the other, utterly crushing the competition. I can certainly understand where that thinking comes from, but also we have to realize that that is ONLY the software industry. Every other industry, with the possible exception of utilities, has competition. One is not necessarily better than the next, just different. To answer your question, we should first change the paradigm to fit with other industries — competition is a good thing, and different doesn’t mean better or worse. LindowsOS is “better” at some things, “worse” at others, and this all depends upon what each individual values. RedHat and SuSe make great products, and some people prefer them, others pick Lindows. To say that Lindows is great and everything else sucks is like saying apples are great and all other fruits suck. Hope that clarifies things.
“Don’t tell me that paying 100$ for SUSE Pro and getting 1 DVD and seven CDs with freeware (nothing else)”
Vasper: With the latest version of SUSE you get the commercial video-editing software MainActor and it’s not freeware. So SUSE is on par with Windows and OSX when it comes to editing videos.
The lack of a “good” vi in the previous version is actually a strong point in LOS, suggesting that the system can be useful without vi.
Most of their target market doesn’t want to ever see a command line (and shouldn’t be allowed to, unless YOU want to fix whatever happens.) I certainly don’t want phone calls asking me to walk people through fixing anything w/ vi (if they have to ask….)
I like RedHat, OS X, and Win2k (mostly); I’ll probably never try LOS. But I like the idea that a lot of people will, and if nothing else, will discover that they don’t need to be afraid of Linux.
I’m not a GPL expert but I thought that under the GPL license you had to provide all of your source code?
“I’m not a GPL expert but I thought that under the GPL license you had to provide all of your source code?”
I’m also not a gpl expert, but if any program compiled on Linux has to be GPLed, then that would prove MicroSoft’s arguments that the GPL is “a cancer”. Thankfully that is not the case. From what I understand, if you take a GPLed program and modify it or use code frome it in you’re code, then your program has to be GPLed. Where as if you Dynamicly link to a commonly used GPL library, you are not required to release under the GPL. If that is incorrect, then a proprietary software maker would have to recreate scores of libraries.
How do we know if they’re not using GPL’d code in their proprietary closed-source stuff? Take Michael’s word for it? Yeah right. That guy is even more slimy than Larry from Three’s Company.
1. It would still be nice if they had a link for advanced user information which gives a list of packages included.
or
2. A live evaluation cd would be nice. I heard there is one, but I can’t find a download link.
Question: Does there version of mozilla contain a spell checker for the email client?
The Live evaluation version is in the works. It is only available to insiders at the moment as it’s still being tested.
So far, it works really well and is a great way of demoing Lindows. Look for it soon.
Kreek
Lindows Insider
“How do we know if they’re not using GPL’d code in their proprietary closed-source stuff? Take Michael’s word for it? Yeah right. That guy is even more slimy than Larry from Three’s Company.”
Molly: How do we know that Microsoft doesn’t use GPL’ed code in their software or SUN or Oracle? Your pointless Lindows FUD is extremly stupid.
Extremly stupid question!
How does Lindos 4 compare to Xandros ?
Any thoughts ?
Last time there was some comparing between the LindowsOS fonts and the Windows fonts side by side. I would assume the fonts in LindowsOS 4.0 look pretty good. The second review of LindowsOS 4.0 has screen shots but you can’t really see the fonts.
To masai, who wondered about LindowsOS vs. Xandros, let me remind you that although Xandros integrates into domains and features the awesome XFM file manager, its interface is still based on KDE 2. And it looks it.
To the GPL crowd, we cover this every few months here: you do NOT have to give away your sources, even if you use GPL’ed code. You just have to make them available, and not over the internet. You can charge up to the price you charge for the binaries. In this case, you only have access to the source if you pay for the software, which, I’d add, is entirely within the limits of the GPL.
To the GPL crowd, we cover this every few months here
<chuckle> Well, let’s see if we can make a record on that one. How’s tomorrow sound? 😉
It supports the User as well as the Geek.
I am a Geek, so I use Synaptic to get the latest debian packages to update Lindows. My sister is a User, and uses Click’n’Run to get her Home Accounting program.
My version of Lindows came with Sun StarOffice which is a full commercial office program. And on Lindows it looks as good as Office XP does on Windows XP. Only difference is I haven’t been able to crash it as I did with Office XP. 🙂
But what does Linux (and Lindows) need next?
1)Development Tools for the NON Geeks. Just like Kylix.
2)Faster KDE (and XWindowing system)
3)Games.