This is the fourth update of Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 (codename ‘woody’) which mainly adds security updates to the stable release, along with a few corrections to serious problems.
Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 Updated
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woody updated again???
this is getting absurd… sarge will be outdated before it is ever released
Surely if it’s the “4th Update” then that should be reflected in the version number… 3.4 or 3.0.4 or something!
Notice the “r4” part? =P
RE:<<this is getting absurd… sarge will be outdated before it is ever released>>
i agree, that sounds plausable..
i been playing with Sarge in an extra partition and after being familier with xorg in Slackware (my favorite) i am beginning to hate Sarge’s way of configuring xf86config, is Sarge the last distro that continues to use xf86???
i like Sarge and i am starting to learn Debian’s way of doing things but i sure wish Sarge would drop xf86 and use xorg, or give users a choice of either xf86 or xorg…
i guess i gotta get used to Sarge’s implementation of Anaconda :^P
I can’t wait until the next full release of Debian comes out. I use Debian/Testing all the time and love it…
Woody was outdated and conservative when it was released more than two years ago! So I have been using Sarge on my “own” servers (the non critical ones). Never had ANY problems or crashes or messed up updates on Sarge or Woody. In fact, the long release cycle is a plus IMHO. Cuts down on administration needs. On the desktop it is a pain though, but you can use Ubuntu … or even Windows.
this is getting absurd… sarge will be outdated before it is ever released
of course it will, you’re talking about Debian after all! 😛
i sure wish Sarge would drop xf86 and use xorg
it won’t: they say it will break too many things and might delay sarge for another… 10 years 😛
IMHO follows:
Stable, useless: too obsolete. you end up with having external sources from everywhere, no quality guaranties.
Testing, useless (my choice although): slow security updates (when you even get them!). Not real problem as of now, but as the popularity keeps growing, leaving holes wide open like that for weeks is not quite good…
Unstable, useless: that’s unstable afterall. updates every days and headache when things breaks.
I do really love Debian’s way of doing thing, and I am using Debian as my preferred distro everywhere I can. But I am slowly beginning to hate this versionning scheme. To my sense, Testing would be perfect if it got security updates faster.
Testing is stable enough for mission critical… leaving Stable for nuclear plants replacing those windows boxes!! 😉
[promote] I want YOU to drop an eye on http://zero-install.sourceforge.net/ for your desktops [/promote]
Oh my, Debian Woody (released 2002) is almost as old as Windows XP (released 2001). Who would keep using such obsolete software, even with service packs and other security updates?
that’s the point: it does NOT have services packs or so. softwares included are old and does not get upgraded, just security fixed. comparing winxp to debian is pointless since we’re talking about the WHOLE distro. PHP for example is part of woody and it’s version is… well, obsolete. want to use the last features of postgres? gotta have to link an external source. even if there exists very good ones, things are not amusing when 2 sources conflicts or so. I am not saying that it is obsolete for everybody, I am saying that it is obsolete for ME. look at the IMHO just before…
flaming leads to nowhere. just at least TRY to accept that other think differently from you!!!
anyway, some mentionned that they should maintain a base installation very stable and keep other software away from this base. NOW, comparing winxp to this debian/base would be pointful.
ok, this is going to be my next project in my spare time, i am going to do only a base install of debian, and not install XF86config and instead i will download Xorg’s latest source and attempt to compile it in Sarge and make apt not install xfree86 when i install Gnome or KDE or xfce, wish me luck on my Frankinstein monster debian-sarge build (i think i am gonna need it)…
…or you could just install Ubuntu Hoary
I’m not too sure about this, but you could just use ubuntu’s xorg packages.
I didn’t know Ubuntu Hoary had XOrg, though I upgraded one of my machines to it a couple of days ago. 🙂 cool.
I don’t mind the long release cycle, actually it’s preferred.
My users don’t like os upgrades every 6 months, yours probably wouldn’t either. I run testing for a desktop and am very happy with that.
As long as Sarge isn’t stable they should keep feeding Woody with security fixes. For desktop users mixing testing and unstable is a nice way to have the latest software and a relatively bug free OS. Just don’t try apt-pinning if you’re not familiair with the Debian way
”
Never had ANY problems or crashes or messed up updates on Sarge or Woody
”
I can tell you of a few I’ve had: Gnome desktop icons breaking, totem crashing nonstop after upgrades…just a warning!
Anyone know where I can find the ISO for r4? I don’t see torrent or jigdo files anywhere. Yes I know I can do apt-get update and dist-upgrade to get up to date. I’m about to download and burn bunch of CD’s and thought I’ll get the latest instead.
How about a look at Google? Someone already did it and write a how-to for it.
“Just don’t try apt-pinning if you’re not familiair with the Debian way
”
And yet that is the sensible way to go
I am actually finding Sid the most stable and problem free of the lot, contrary to its name. With Sarge I was having a lot of problems (and to think that it is soon to be declared the stable branch…)
I wanted to go down memory lane and install Woody: no way, it doesn’t support my hardware. That is one more reason why the stable branch should be updated more often: in the end it will support only old hardware.
As to comparing Woody to Win XP, it doesn’t make any sense: the development of linux is several times faster than that of Windows.
You can get xorg for Debian unstable at this address: http://debian.linux-systeme.com/
I just installed this myself and so far it is running great with the composite extension enabled
This has been brought up a million times, yet Debian developpers seem to be in denial
– Servers don’t run KDE, Gnome
– Feature driven releases don’t work with 16000 packages and growing
– Why run Mozilla 1.0 when you can run Firefox 1.0
– Sid and testing (as it is today) WILL break
It has been proposed to break Debian into layers, or to pay more attention to “testing”… but developers seem pleased with the current development model, users are less enthusiastic
I understand these people are unpaid volunteers, but that’s yet another incentive to get the job done right (practical goals) instead of being choked in a huge bureaucracy. Think “Linux”, not “Hurd”!
I am writing this in Debian/testing, my preferred distribution. Sorry for the rant.
I’m running Debian/sid on 2 notebooks and one desktop for 1-3 years (each machine a different time). The only major breakage I remember was a badly-named symlink to libstdc++, which broke all C++ apps, including apt-get. I could fix it myself, when this happened to me there was a bug-report already filed and within the next 12 hours, a fixed package was available on my local mirror.
I can’t think of anything else major – maybe when Firefox went from 0.7 to 0.8 and the developers said to remove the preferences directory and I did not listen…
I can let you know, when I encounter another major breakage in sid, but don’t hold your breath.
“Servers don’t run KDE, Gnome”
For any thin client setup they do. Additionally, Stable isn’t intended to only be run on servers.
“Feature driven releases don’t work with 16000 packages and growing”
Maybe not, but they’re sometimes unavoidable. For instance, there was no feasible way a release was going to happen without a working installer. Besides, only a small fraction of those 16k packages will be considered important enough to be blockers for the entire release.
“It has been proposed to break Debian into layers, or to pay more attention to “testing””
Check http://wiki.debian.net/index.cgi?ReleaseProposals for a list of all the different proposals.
http://wiki.debian.net/index.cgi?ReleasePerSubsystem and http://wiki.debian.net/index.cgi?WhateverHappenedToTesting look like the two you’re interested in – feel free to try to address the numerous cons that have been mentioned for each, or to point out any pros that others might have missed.
“but developers seem pleased with the current development model”
I’m not sure why you’d think this, since they were hoping to get Sarge released many months ago.
Everyone should feel free to pitch in and add additional (constructive) commentary to any of the release proposals listed in the wiki entry mentioned above, or even create a completely new entry should they think they’ve come up with something truly original. Now’s the time for all interested parties to put their thinking caps on and have a productive discussion on the topic, and hey, that’s what that ReleaseProposals wiki entry was created to facilitate.
It would be ludicrous to actually start to tinker in any major fashion until Sarge is out the door, anyway.
“I can’t think of anything else major”
Pam has been completely broken on at least one occasion, as mentioned on http://wiki.debian.net/index.cgi?DebianUnstable – okay, such catastrophic show-stoppers are extremely rare and they’re always easy enough to fix provided you know what you’re doing, but that still rules out pretty much everyone who doesn’t possess a technical bent.
running sarge with xorg is easy
first install debian with kde/gnome and xfree86.
then compile and install xorg.
then run:
dpkg -S /usr/X11R6 | sed ‘s/, / hold
/g’ | sed ‘s/:.*$/ hold
/’ | dpkg –set-selections
..to tell apt to put any packages that have files in /usr/X11R6 on hold. then when you upgrade or dist-upgrade, your xorg install won’t be overwritten.
hope that helps.
p.s. xorg compiling tip:
if make World errors due to failed dependencies, run make Everything after installing whatever you needed, it will save you lots of time because it does not clean the source tree everytime.
Thanks for your thoughts, I will check out these wiki references. I understand this has been given a lot of thought, but a change in the release model would be a large undertaking, while “(almost) works for me” is still the most common answer. I doubt we’ll see it anytime soon (in Debian-years) 🙂
Guys
http://www.livejournal.com/community/debian/194683.html
this fella wrote a quick howto on how he got xorg working.
tbh i ran gentoo unstable for about a year and found that constantly updating and breaking, moving to “sid” on debian was a joy compared. In my year of using sid I have only had a couple of hiccups, mostly due to gnome 2.8 when packages wouldnt update due to broken deps.
_test_
*test*
sorry
@syntaxis – I don’t claim there was no breakage. Only, that it did not happen to me (or I would have remembered)
@dimosd – if it really works for me, what else do you expect to hear?
if somebody has different experiences, they should talk about them. not me 