Home > .NET > Avalon Preview Download, .NET DiscussionsAvalon Preview Download, .NET Discussions Eugenia Loli 2005-03-25 .NET 21 CommentsMicrosoft has provided a version of the March 2005 Indigo and Avalon Community Technology Previews for the general public. .NET luminaries discuss themselves, their technology expertise, and whatever else comes to mind, released twice a month.About The Author Eugenia LoliEx-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 21 Comments 2005-03-25 12:52 pm For starters, the name of the product resembles something I saw on apache.org once… 2005-03-25 2:46 pm Well, in that scenario, you must agree then that ANY piece of closed source software, no matter the vendor, may be using open source code, and we won’t know about it because it is closed source.Don’t just single out Microsoft here.It is also perfectly legal to use open source code depending on what license the code is released under. 2005-03-25 4:32 pm “Well, in that scenario, you must agree then that ANY piece of closed source software, no matter the vendor, may be using open source code, and we won’t know about it because it is closed source.Don’t just single out Microsoft here. ”Knowing MS and tactics,they are most likely to do it.. He he! 2005-03-25 4:54 pm Its funny you point at MS when in fact they were not one of the 13 companies that were recently warned by the FSF for violating the GNU license. But then again, since when to linux fanboys ever pay attention to the real world. 2005-03-25 4:59 pm Hmm, I am trying to figure out what you are talking about here…. but, as for the Apache Avalon project, it had nothing to do with Microsoft’s GUI framework. The Apache Avalon project, which has dispanded, was a framework based on “inversion of control” for developing components for an object-oriented runtime system. 2005-03-25 5:11 pm Has anyone ever compared both XUL and Avalon (XAML)?I don’t know if anyone ever noticed but Chris Anderson looks like an overweight Peter Parker (Spiderman). 2005-03-25 5:24 pm 99% of Windows users will upgrade their OS when they buy a new computer. Microsoft would love to have some way of forcing an upgrade but this would probably just make 20% of them consider Macs.I have yet to see anything for Longhorn that changes the game. These are upgrades. Big upgrades yes, but just upgrades. The yet-again reinvented APIs won’t change the number of people who develop apps for Windows. XAML will not make the web a Microsoft-only place (no more than Java applets made the web a Sun-preferred place), in fact I suspect you will be able to count the XAML apps on the same number of fingers you count the significant java apps on.Its an upgrade, thats all. 2005-03-25 9:02 pm You must be the janitor over at Yahoo. 2005-03-25 9:25 pm You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. The API isn’t getting reinvented (new one resides beside the old one quite fine; MS has always bent over backwards to not introduce breaking changes, and if they do they provide workarounds). XAML has nothing to do w/ the web, it’s a new markup model for WinForms (based on the MVC (model view controller) pattern that asp.net (and others) uses), similar to XUL from what I’ve heard. Any and all new Avalon development will inherently use XAML, so I hope you have a lot of fingers. 2005-03-25 9:33 pm XAML is mainly supposed to be used with Avalon, not WinForms, although that will work, too. 2005-03-25 10:09 pm Avalon is the next version of WinForms (as well as some other stuff). MS is also going to backport the XAML part of Avalon to WinForms v2.x and up (all releases from 2.x up to Avalon in longhorn…looks like there could be quite a few as the ship date keeps slipping). 2005-03-25 10:58 pm XAML is NOT an XML markup format for WinForms though I suppose it could be used for that, and in the case of the 3rd Party Xamlon is being used for that.Avalon is positioned to eventually take the place of WinForms but it is NOT the “next version” of WinForms. 2005-03-25 11:05 pm Good point, bad wording on my part…that’s what I meant though (long night last night). Thx for the clarification :-). 2005-03-26 12:49 am So they can tell me if it is worth dowloading and installing? 2005-03-26 1:45 am If you’re a developer and you wish to test such new technologies, you surely should download them. They won’t enable you to run much software right now, AFAIK. If you’re a developer, you might wish to get a Visual Studio 2005 BETA version to experience Avalon and Indigo. I didn’t checked it myself but I plan to do start producing software in a couple of months when I will end my current project. 2005-03-26 3:25 pm I do.Well, I won’t use it, but it costs money for ms.*har har har* 2005-03-26 4:01 pm Funny, an XML based interface, made by a company who won’t support the standards ( http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,1776935,00.asp ) and can’t follow them themselves ( http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A//www.micros… )[Windows Exception Error in Explorer.exe]</window> missing in source code. 2005-03-26 5:36 pm Can somebody to tell me about this release?Is this release is working? I can’t install it on my PC after couple of hours! Many hour “installer” was did something without any output. He was slow downs my PC.I was kill this process after 6 hours!450 MB MSI package! Wow! I think “MSIEXEC” can’t handle so big package. Does anybody installs it successfully? 2005-03-27 5:43 am “XAML has nothing to do w/ the web.” Wow. Completely unable to draw simple obvious conclusions. Okay. So now you have a simple serialized format for a windows gui that can be easily be well…written to a file…or maybe transmitted over a network? maybe over the interweb even? you know…since it’s already there. yeah. they could just make Internet Explorer handle XAML documents correctly and then all kinds of business could *easily* make their windows apps available just by clicking some checkbox in VIsual Studio! *Poof* it’s available over the web. Of course then only people with OSs and browsers that were Microsoft’s would be able to render this. So Microsoft wouldn’t do that at all…I mean what good it would it be to them to make a move that would seem to force people to use their OS and browser? Nah. That wouldn’t ever happen.ASP.NET inherintly uses an mvc pattern?! are you kidding me?! No wait. Let me guess. The ASPX is your “view” component. The code-behind file is your “controller…” and the umm…sql server is the “model.”I know that this would be about what would pass to a microsoft fanboy as an mvc pattern. Maybe someday you’ll learn. Maybe it’ll happen for you once you finally put down your copy of VB.NET and actually understand development as something more exciting than clicking MS wizards to build shitty 10,000 layer MS windows applications (build on calls to the windows API, which are accessed through a COM interface, which are accessed through a .NET/COM bridge, which are accessed from the CLR, which is accessed from VB.NET)Until then…stick with words you know. 2005-03-27 9:34 pm Microsoft always grab someone else’s technologyand claim it as their own.I bet very few of you knows where MVC really comes from.Microsoft keeps reinventing the wheel and names.After using words like n-Tiers, n-Layers, the Business/Presentation/Database layer … whatever – they run out of new acronyms and decided to grab the ancient MVC rebranding as their new thing.What Microsoft is good at is re-branding, also good at resources (MSDN Library online is the best – imagine something like that for Linux Languages?).IBM / Novell should learn a few tips from them. 2005-03-28 4:07 pm In ASP.NET 2.0 a new data binding implements MVC pattern. And it of course can be found in a lot of other places in .NET. So what?