Home > Games > Nintendo: Innovation is dying Nintendo: Innovation is dying Submitted by Darius 2005-06-04 Games 72 Comments Mario creator Miyamoto discusses what’s wrong with the video game industry today. About The Author Eugenia Loli Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker. Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 72 Comments 2005-06-04 6:53 pm is that what’s hot in Japan isn’t necessarily hot here. 2005-06-04 7:07 pm 2D rpg’s were the best =/ video games are no place for technology 2005-06-04 7:12 pm As the director of many Mario and Zelda games, along with much, much more, this man knows. His creativity and imagination absolutely obliterates most of the industry — he’s consistently created engaging worlds and adventures when most leprotards are drooling over samey, derivative shooters. 2005-06-04 7:18 pm it is dead for years… 2005-06-04 7:33 pm very true games are dying I love Splinter Cell, Time Splitters 2, Zelda and Nintendo Gamecube WWE Games which are the best out of the wrestling games from the other sucky platforms. 2005-06-04 7:36 pm I have also felt for a long time that the creativity in gaming is taking a downward slide. Games with beautiful graphics are wonderful, but it seems like much less effort goes into original story design and good storytelling. Storys from most of today’s games are usually reduced to about 15 or 20 quick scenarios (often seen over and over again in game after game). Look at games like MUDs that still don’t use any type of advanced graphics technology. Quite a few people still play them today. There has been innovation, but not for a while, not since Myst and Thief. Console developers basically got free advertising from the show and had nothing but flashy game console cases to show. They showed conceptual videos and everyone went gaga. 2005-06-04 7:46 pm It’s only partially true that innovation is dying. Every now and then an original title comes out. Often from Nintendo, SEGA or Sony. I like the fact that Nintendo is going a totally different way this time though. We’ve got two other giants battling the power battle. Perhaps Nintendo can create something truly different. I’m not holding my breath though. 2005-06-04 7:46 pm While I think old school ownz I wonder what’s all this about the Revolution, I have a midst feeling that it will be either a complete nonsense like that Matrix thing that Sega showed last E3 or something really great, we shall see. 2005-06-04 7:50 pm I think that the problem with most of the games today is that there’s a learning curve involved. Games like Super Mario and racing games are largely popular because of their spontaneity. People may not want to spend time learning the game; they’d rather just play the game. More simple a game is, more inviting it is to play. Also, most of the gaming companies seem to be concentrating on creating advanced graphics, rather than coming up with good concepts. Nintendo is surely on the right track by promoting uniqueness. 2005-06-04 8:16 pm This might come as something of a shock to the gaming world, but Shigeru Miyamoto – the man who created Mario, Donkey Kong and Zelda – really doesn’t feel like playing games these days. Thats because almost all the good games are on Xbox and PS2. For all the naysayers out there saying video games are not innovative or not as good were they were in the past — I will say they are so full of crap they mind as well double as a septic tank. There are pleanty of great games like Halo, Grand Theft Auto, Call of Duty, Brothers in Arms, World of Warcraft, etc… 2005-06-04 8:50 pm “There are pleanty of great games like Halo, Grand Theft Auto, Call of Duty, Brothers in Arms, World of Warcraft, etc…” You’re kind of missing the point. This article is not about a decline in quality but in innovation. Grand Theft Auto being already up to five iterations with the sixth announced (not counting all copycats) all within ten years is hardly the pinnacle of innovation. The first Burnout game came out in 2001 and the fourth one is announced with a port to the PSP. etc. Counting the amount of FPS coming out each year (or just given in your short list) is just another evidence of this trend. 2005-06-04 9:00 pm But what is Nintendo doing to combat this? I shudder to think how many Mario games we’ve endured since the 80’s. Super Smash Brothers Melee was little more than a graphical improvement. Ditto to Mario Kart Double Dash, Waverace, Starfox, etc. Nintendo is just as guilty as the rest of the industry for promoting “rehashes”. I will credit Nintendo for their Metroid Prime series though. They brilliantly brought the classic 2d action game into 3d without comprimising its soul. 2005-06-04 9:04 pm The games today looks differents to me, in part because they changed, and in part because I changed. When I look at the old game industry, it wasn’t much different as of today : once in a while a truely innovative game, then followed by countless clones. I think Morrowind is the most amazing RPG to ever run by a CPU, and was released only, what, 3 years ago. Some shooters are really enjoyable, and playing them doesn’t make us necessary “leprotards”. Recently I was hooked on Mercury and Lumines on PSP. All people I know went crazy about Katamari, which is one of the most innovative game in history. I do, tho agree on one Miyamoto’s point : it’s getting harder to find great “pick-up” games these days. The more I grow up, the less time I have to play, thus most of the time I want games that I can enjoy for only 10 minutes at a time. Maybe that’s why, nowaday, I enjoy much more my Gameboy and my PSP than big consoles. And thoses consoles doesn’t lack of highly enjoyable, pick-up, innovative games. 2005-06-04 9:06 pm Grand Theft Auto 3 was one of the most innovative games ever. Nintendo seems upset because innovative does not mean putting on obnoxious binoculars a la virtual boy. 2005-06-04 9:09 pm Don’t forget that sex sells. All of these companies would be wise to take notice of that fact. 2005-06-04 9:13 pm Even since Nintendo realized they couldn’t afford to remain on par technically with Sony and Microsoft, they’ve been trotting out this idea of “innovation”. However, I’m really not impressed with their definition of “innovation”. For me, the games that have really impressed me this generation were games that really brought something new to the table. Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow, and GTA3 are the best examples i can think of. Not only did PD continue the awesome stealth action from the original, it also brought a never-before-seen online mode that is amazing. GTA3 is obvious. The level of free roaming gameplay has been attempted, but never worked as well as in this game. But from Nintendo, all i see are new controllers. The DS is supposed to be such a platform for “innovation”, but all i see are familiar games that use a touch pad instead of an analog stick. And with the “Revolution”, Nintendo seems to be basing the whole system on their mystery controller. 2005-06-04 9:14 pm All the games on your list are quite good. I’ve played many of them. Your list is not perfect: Halo 1 + 2 are 1st person shooters (FPS). Only a billion of these are running around. Grand Theft Auto III, VC, SA are action-driving-rpg sequels shamelessly imitated by everyone, including themselves. True, they did start a new genre, but only by combining old one. Brothers in Arms is a World War 2 themed FPS. Gee, this hasn’t been done before. Call of Duty is, wait for it, ANOTHER WW2 FPS. Oh wait, now they have Vietnam FPS’es too. SO original they are. World of Warcraft is a Massively Multiplayer Online role playing game in a market full of them. Plus, it has monthly fees and I’m poor. Despite my commentary, your list features shining examples of QUALITY, but not innovation. You prove that video games ARE as GOOD as they were in the past, just less innovative and rarely original. At this point, developers have figured out many things that work and don’t work; thus they will tend to avoid unproven ideas. Innovation also stagnates because big publishers are afraid to try NEW things. The EA’s and Ubisoft’s of the world would rather give the public more of the same with some improvements and watch the money fall from the heavens. Saves them time and money and risk of trying a new idea and watching it bomb. Some good news: thanks to EVERY next gen console getting internet download capability, those brave developers that want to try new things can maybe self publish (Nintendo DS and Sony PSP have WiFi. PS3, Xbox 360, and Revolution have Ethernet + WiFi). These can optionally get picked up by big publishers who can pick up a proven game and get it to the masses. Next, all three companies are SERIOUS about trying new interfaces to games. Video cameras, touch screens, microphones and more are coming to current and future consoles. We hope these bring new and interesting games and gameplay to the fore. Also, these features may bring back the SIMPLICITY enjoyed by older games. Games you can pick up and play and leave behind without investing half your LIFE in them. So far, games like this have been mostly on the Game Boy series and the internet. Even publishers realise that the same old crap only goes so far. So we get games like truly clever games like Katamari Damacy. Games that do new things with traditional ideas like Psychonauts. Hybrid games like GTA, the action driving rpg. Mr. Miyamoto may be overstating the severity of the situation, I think. To conclude, I think the end of this generation will give gamers much to look forward to. The next wave, after a year or two should be even more exciting. Finally, there is nothing really wrong with a game that does nothing new, but is still a lot of fun. Jak and Daxter, Ratchet and Clank, Mario, and Zelda prove this. I’m done people, really. One day I’ll remember how to make a SHORT reply. –JM 2005-06-04 9:35 pm i think there are more potential market in asia than in america alone. get a clue, boy! you are out of the topic without doubt. i agree to miyamoto about that there’s no more innovation. i haven’t played games for several years. 2005-06-04 9:47 pm What Miyamoto was probably trying to say is that while Sony and MS are trying to be Hollywood, Nintendo is trying to be Pixar. Not a bad goal. 2005-06-04 10:10 pm GTA is a sequel to a sequel how is that innovation? My feeling is Nintendo simply can’t compete with what Sony & MS have lined up so their looking for a different angle. 2005-06-04 10:12 pm Regarding your listed “innovative” titles: “Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow” really has little innovation. Go find an MSX or an NES and see how little it has actually evolved from Metal Gear. GTA3 is a great technical achievement but it’s actually a little weak in the gameplay department. I don’t mean that the missions suck, but GTA feels first and foremost like a playground and secondarily it’s a game. You want to see some really crazy stuff? Look at Yoshi Touch & Go for the DS. You could argue it’s a platform game, but you could replace the platform game with anything and retain the controls and it would still be the same brilliant idea. It’s a whole different way of interacting with a device. In fact I believe the fact that it actually has an automatic demo mode (like arcade games had in the old days before eveyone knew how to play them) says a lot. Feel the Magic XX/XY is another pretty good example. It’s a fairly short game, but man is it good. And you won’t get through hard mode any time soon. There’s a whole slew of games coming out for the DS. Some are just variations on formerly seen things, such as the übercute Nintendogs or the bemani-inspired Band of Brothers, but there’s also some really far-out stuff coming out like Electroplankton. Don’t be fooled by Nintendo using their franchies to leverage new ways of playing games. Pikmin and Animal Crossing both delivered new stuff in spades. Go check out Pac Pix, the mini-games in Mario DS, Pac-Pix, Polarium or the other games I just mentioned. Nintendo isn’t going to pull this off over night, but I’m pretty sure they have more than a few ideas to pull this stuff off. And now that Sega is a third party, there’s a good chance we’ll see some of their delightfully distilled madness on the new Nintendo devices. 2005-06-04 10:18 pm Great little system, the games like Electroplankton, Nintendogs, and Kirby’s Magic Canvas are completely insane and different. Unfortunate that Japan is getting most of these far before the rest of the world =/ 2005-06-04 10:22 pm I have to completely disagree with you about Pandora Tomorrow. The original brought some new elements like dynamic lighting and head/night vision, which share some things from Thief as well as Rainbow6, but really the original splinter cell was a major leap forward in stealth games. However, there is NOTHING like Pandora Tomorrow’s mutliplayer. The closest thing i can think of is Natural Selection, a mod for Half-Life. Pandora Tomorrow’s multiplayer pits 3rd-person perspective spies against FPS-style mecenaries. This type of gameplay is brand new. I’ve played Yoshi Touch and Go and its a techdemo masquerading as a video game. As are all the “innovative” games on the DS. 2005-06-04 10:25 pm I’m sorry but no, have you played Gamecube games lately? I played GTA3 San Andreas I believe. I thought it was pathetic. Yes, lots of great free roaming which was what I was looking forward too. But in the end I still had to play obnoxious missions that required me to figure out a specific way to get things done (one solution). There was a game a while ago that tried to address this lack of free roam (mostly in the area that all games have single solutions); it was called Deus Ex: It was worse. There was only one solution; be really sneaky and talented. Anyway, the innovation has been happening in graphics, AI, and networking. But the amount of real change in gameplay has been Null. Yes, there’s been this great push for more free play; but that’s just a push for real life (how innovative!). Nintendo games on the other hand have been great lately. Games like smash brothers and that board game (Mario Party?); I know kids who are obsessed with them. It’s not the graphics or the new characters because there’s none of that; it’s because it offers something that’s well … not real life. Now there should always be room for these great genre’s we have today. A total loss of FPS and Strategy and MMORPG’s and all that would be awful. But the fact that we keep pushing every game to be more and more like real life (just bigger guns and faster cars) isn’t the best. Also, what ever happened to fighters? I love 1on1 fight games like Tekken2! Bring that genre back, and please actually improve it for once . I spend more time playing Tetris these days than any other game; of course the availibility of it on my cell phone is hard to beat.. 2005-06-04 10:44 pm I’m not sure innovation is necessary so much as actually fun gameplay is. A great example is the transition from Counter-Strike 1.6 to Counter-Strike:Source. Source opted for fancy graphics and a more realistic physics engine but resulted in a game that was less fun, despite attempting to maintain the original concepts. Video games and most other forms of entertainment are for indulging escapism. Making them too realistic defeats the purpose. In my opinion, the pinnacle of game consoles is still the Super Nintendo. 2005-06-04 11:08 pm In my opinion, the pinnacle of game consoles is still the Super Nintendo. Hear, hear! 2005-06-04 11:13 pm So Miyamoto complains about innovation dying… then shows off some new Zelda footage. Anyone seeing a problem with this? 2005-06-04 11:18 pm Just curious, but if you folks were to design a game for this day in age what qualities would you put in it to make it “innovative”? 2005-06-04 11:19 pm Game companies are turning to “graphics is all that matters” beacause there are lots of money involved: you buy better hardware, developers could forget about optimizing, and so on… so hardware industry and software industry will not want to change that way of doing; it’s a “de facto” duopoly. 2005-06-04 11:30 pm You really need both. New “innovative” games, and rehashes that do the same thing that have always been done… a lot better (better graphics, deeper story, etc.) Nintendo is just trying to downplay the alternatives. “Their console plays the same old games… ours will play new ones.” Well, they may be right. Or maybe not. Truth be told, it’s just too early to make any serious judgement. From E3 you got an idea of the things to come, but opinions change from here to the launch of the first nexgen. Especially as new information comes up across the board. 2005-06-04 11:37 pm I dont see what the fuss is over 3d games…To me they are just eye candy no story, no thought(like the recent three starwars movies). 25 years of age and i still plug in my vic20 to play games . Text adventures and point and click adventure games are the best out there. 2005-06-04 11:59 pm I fully agree, I enjoy playing the old arcade and consoles a lot more than the current consoles. I love the 2d animation, where everything was about gameplay and graphics were mainly just used to represent what was happening. The games are simple yet addicting and fun. Look at Pac-Man, you move a circle around collecting dots, simple concept, simple graphics, great game. Everything after the SNES has gone downhill a bit. Nintendo still amkes fun simple gfames, but the rest are just piles of shit. There was nothing innovating about GTA3, it was GTA2 with 3d graphics, GTA2 was GTA with better graphics and the addition of gangs. I still love the original GTA and GTA2, but I see nothing special about GTA3 and it’s spin offs. 2005-06-05 12:13 am To me they are just eye candy no story, no thought(like the recent three starwars movies). I agree, because both Pong and Pacman require you to think, and have a notable story. 2005-06-05 12:31 am You probably were not paying taxes when I went to school. 2005-06-05 1:18 am Hmm, ok, I’ll take this one… He’s partially right. Well, i think the last great epic was phantasy star online. Unique, yes. Sega but more than that. I twas multi focus marketing, sure. What they say about the USA, they said about NY, NY.. in the song of the same name. If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere. Kong Bongos are worth it, if you’re a serious gamer. Ie, can’t turn down a test drive. Playing games for hours on end, that’s a weekend job, nearly. We used to have such KILLER parties like that in college, back in the DAY.(try, X32 days), pc’s and lan’s, and consoles and lappies hummin.. The chicks, the chips, the beer, the fun. When we got tired of it, we went into the old city. got out, got some air, oak trees, headshops, vinyl stores, came back, ready for another round. we always thought a game system could be made which lived in the real world, while giving you a good size hunk of alter reality pie. But then you look at Design<>marketing. Today’s form factor for memory, less than a credit card size(but, gaming? no. why? playstation one nor two came with memorystick, and why?) Interactive long gaming, is cool, but, they, trying to make epic quake all over again. wow! to recapture that! that’s an undertaking. To recapture that atmosphere.. I suggest a shooting game to emulate test practice of a police cadet. Why they didn’t use that formula for a men in black game, is beyond me. donkey kong, yeah fine stuff. but-=– he mentioned Halo. Have they gotten to the end of the road on design ideas? no. dude, star wars with jedi lightsabre’s wireless. How hard is that? Not very, from the himalayan view… I leave the rest to whatever your imagination may come up with… as for “dic”, hmm, it would work, though, that’s really a portable game thing, really. DS, right? yeah. It would work here. I’d have to look at it, however to really tell you that. 2005-06-05 1:32 am Just curious, but if you folks were to design a game for this day in age what qualities would you put in it to make it “innovative”? Whatever the game was, I’d make it very simple to get into. Like no more than 2-3 buttons smf D-pad required, and maybe a 5-10 minute learning curve, and something that draws you in instantly. I’m sorry, but if I have to play a game for hours on end before it even starts to get interesting, that is called work, and work is no fun. Gone would be the days of having to sit through a 3-hour CG snorefest (if I wanted to watch a f**king movie, I would’ve rented one, jackasses) and/or having to thumb through a 400-page manual and having to put up with controllers with 10-12 buttons on them. I mean, if you’ve got 5+ hours a day to sit around and play games, then I suppose complexity is good. But as it is, most games it seems are turning multiplayer, and you end up (especially in FPS games) going up against people who make full-time ‘careers’ out of kicking people’s asses. How much fun is that for the average gamer who actually has a life and plays games maybe a few hours a week for recreation? But, with the next-gen consoles, coming, what do we have to look forward to? More of the same Game budgets are going to go from $3-5 million to $5-15 million. This means that publishers are going to be less willing to take chances. This also means that most of you are going to go out and pay $50 again and again for the same games you have been playing for years, just like you are told to. I think what we need is a little less technology and a little more creativity. Media Centers The new consoles will be more about playing movies, music, etc than playing games. Sony has already said that they’re hoping to use the PS3 with its Bluray DVD player and high def connections to push sales of next-gen DVD players and HDTVs. The Xbox 360 will surely have some interfaces to Windows, and I know how much you Linux users are going to love that. In essence, these companies are more concerned with ‘owning’ your living room than giving you high-quality games to play. Micro-transaction With all the new consoles having online capability built-in, you’re going to see quadrupal (sp) billing in action: 1) Paying for the console 2) Paying for the game 3) Paying a monthly/yearly fee for online access 4) Paying for upgrades. For example, when you bring that shiny new FPS home and go online, you’ll be able to upgrade to a flame thrower or bazooka for, say .. $1. That’s right kids – get ready to pay real money for virtual weapons/property. Micro-transaction are coming. Video games as adware So you’ll pay $50 for a game only to have it serve ads to you while you play. This is already happening and will continue to get worse, especially if the consoles have the ability to download more ads from the Internet. As for me, I’m not a Nintendo fanboy. I have no idea if the Revolution will be another ‘me too’ console or not. But I’m just glad that somebody significant in the industry is pointing out what many of us have known for years – innovation is gaming is pretty much dead. And this is pretty evident by the fact that you can practically count the number of truly innovative games released in the past 7-8 years on one hand. Some of you are trying to make a list of these games and it’s pretty clear that you’re grasping for straws when Halo and GTA are the best you can come up with. 2005-06-05 2:26 am No offense to any GTA fans out there, but can someone explain to me the innovation behind running around in a huge area killing people innovative. Despite most people’s bneleifs, just because something hasn’t been done before doesn’t make it interesting. I mean for those of you out there that have played Sim Stapler, there’s no other game like it, but it seriously isn’t innovative. Further more the concept of running around around and killing people, even while in cars wasn’t suddenly invented by GTA, the map size was merely expanded. 2005-06-05 2:27 am This is what i’ve been thinking since the early 3d hype days. People started experimenting with “cool 3d graphics” and kinda forgot to include the fun factor in most game titles. Oh look. somebody has written a first person 3d shooter, lets make 3000 games JUST like it. just throw in lots of 3d and everyone will think it’s great! I’m not saying 3d graphics is what’s wrong, because it’s in fact fact the opposite – just a natural step in the evolution of computer hardware/software. Enough said about that. Then there’s the learning curve of most games nowdays. Who said you cant have a game with no learning curve but with a complex layout/story. Back in the days, there were lots of such games, as well as those with a steep learning curve – which is fun when you have the time and interest. But i really miss the instant action of for example Project X. Blast some enemies of ske skies, great music, great overall feeling. I still fire it up to kill some time from time to time. 2005-06-05 2:47 am I actually stopped playing games after the N64 came out. The 3D movement made a huge push toward getting graphics up to be the very best. While 3D is nice in certain situations I personally loved the older overhead look like in the Zelda games and Mario RPG for SNES. Camera angles are not something I want to worry about while playing…. Personally I wouldn’t mind a Mario RPG2, it was advertised way back when but never got out (think someone said it came out as Paper Mario?). Yes that would be rehashing. But it’d hopefully bring back the old layouts and story designs that I liked. GTA? I don’t really care for games that do not have a set ending. Ultima Online? Boring after 1 week. I want goals, I want a good story plot, well developed characters, and easy of control. If you need a chart to describe what keys do what I will refuse to play it! 2005-06-05 3:20 am I miss the good old days of the NES back when so many games were fun. Then again, at the age I was at, anything that flashed and made funny noise was great. But a line of games that have never let me down are Nintendo games. Every Nintendo release, safe one (Mario is Missing), has been a great hit. Now, if Miyamoto-san says we won’t be let down then he better be telling us the truth because Nintendo has an indisputable legacy of hits and a reputation for revolutionizing the gaming world. I personally don’t think that Nintendo is ready to just die off after over 20 years of making hit consoles and games. 2005-06-05 3:43 am I just miss my good old games with just an A and a B button. 2005-06-05 4:11 am In case you missed it, this kind of speak about how they are going to “use the technology differently” _is_ the marketing that they are going to combat the tech news from Sony and MS. 2005-06-05 4:16 am Personally I wouldn’t mind a Mario RPG2, it was advertised way back when but never got out (think someone said it came out as Paper Mario?). Yep. It was paper mario. I played it the whole way through. It was a neat game, and did the cell shading thing better than any I have seen but it was kinda simplisitic. Not easy at all. Just simple. 2005-06-05 5:12 am Originality is not dead, just rare. New ways to play games involving microphones, video cameras, touch screens, and wacky controllers may finally get us new KINDS of games. Problem is developers afraid to chance unproven ideas, and publishers milking cash cows to death. Innovation good. The above plus new ways of thinking of games lead to fresh and interesting if familiar experiences. Just give a new spin to a tired idea, or combine a bunch of old ones. Almost everything can be improved. Examples: Crazy Taxi + Smash TV + Zelda + crime movies = GTA3 and up. 3D Zelda + Dragon’s Lair + luv = ICO. Marble Madness + Pac Man + cleverness + LSD = Katamari Damacy? Problems are same as above. Rehashes are a necessary evil. You can make many a fun game from borrowing ideas. Just do it so well that no one can complain at least. Example: Ratchet & Clank is 3D Megaman. Run, jump, shoot. Still fun. Almost every game, no matter how good, re-implements someone else’s good idea BECAUSE IT WORKS and no better way has been found, yet. TWO good things that may come from microtransactions and/or ads in games are the opportunity for developers to self-publish and true, casual gaming. Brave new developers with small teams working on clever little games to download and try for free, buy for low prices. Free puzzle, board, and casual games will get my grandma on XBox Live if she can play Scrabble with her sister across the country. Mind you, this depends on the game companies opening up their closed networks to small developers, or clever white-hat hackers poking holes in them. I can only hope. To ALL old-sk00lers. Get a Game Boy Advance, bastion of the “pure”, 2D, pick up and play game. In fact, nearly all GOOD GBA games are designed this way, so you can play a bit, get on with your life, and come back later. With the GameCube linkup, you can get full screen treatment. Oh, and Warioware is crack. –JM –man, still a long post. 2005-06-05 6:12 am Um, I just don’t get it. Almost every book I’ve ever read is told in the second person. Does it say anything about the “Innovation” of authors? The bottom line is that there are only so many ways to tell a story within a particular medium. Why so many first person games? It’s the only way to make the player feel as if they are the in the game. A lot a people like that. They don’t want to see their character from behind or the side because it ruins the “illusion” of being in the game. Of course the fact that in most FPS you can’t see your legs and body is just crazy in my opinion. I had never noticed how much of a difference it makes until I played Riddick(which was a great game). That being said, you couldn’t play a game like Rome total war in first person. So to sum it up, all ideas are built on the foundation of previous ideas. The thing about it is that new people are born everyday who have not seen the previous iterations and are seeing it for the first time. 2005-06-05 6:31 am Nintendo is NOT always at the edge of technology, and their games are good, some great alot not for me, though other people like them… what I find annoying is there is not very many RPG’s out anymore… and the ones that are … well Lets say I can get more excited from a car accident… but I still play them as there is nothing that truly fills the niche.. Nintendo’s in-house games are ALWAYS blockbusters…. so I will stand by Nintendo’s descision to make weird and unforseen moves like moving into a new direction. 2005-06-05 6:50 am the kind of video game i always dream of would never happen… innovative gameplay, great story, strong characters developement, great art style, immersive game world like wat a great film would give us. halo 2 , half life 2, doom 3 that kind of games can never achieve that… riddick is a beginning. metal gear series is always very close but lack of gameplay… 2005-06-05 9:28 am Innovative games will always be thin on the ground compared to remakes, clones, mods etc. When an innovative game appears, people will see it and say “oooh, cool – we can do that!”. A rash of clones and remakes appear, and soon the original is not considered innovative but “just another type-X”. Innovation has not stopped, as this thread shows. THere are plenty of decent new games with new ideas, new ways of using technology. THey are just swamped by the number of clones and remakes. Compare with the music industry. There IS decent music, new and original – you just have to look for it, and don;t bother looking in the Chart-Topping lists for it. Popular usually means familiar. Once a new, innovative game gets a level of audience that gets it seen by the major distributers, clones and remakes start appearing. 2005-06-05 9:49 am I own a PS2 and the only reason I have it it for GTA and FF. To date one of the most engaging games that I have played was a step-by-step D&D game on my c64. That and of course Shadowgate for NES . I still kick them up on my emulators when I feel the need to exit complicated graphics and quest driven missions. If there are good stories people will notice. Playstation always had a good RPG curve going cause those game makers had a decent story line, anymore though most are try to knock off FF or some other RPG/idea. Even PC games now suffer from this lack of good story telling as they try to stay afloat amongest the console wars…….Soo sad VIVA LA GALAGA! 2005-06-05 11:00 am Everyone talks about SNES here… are you nuts? Mega Drive ownz! Comix Zone, Bare Knuckle, Sonic, Soleil, Puggsy, Gunstar Heroes and so on. WOOOOOOOOOT 2005-06-05 12:43 pm Was games more innovative in the 80’s and 90’s? No way. It was the same old over and over, and every once in a while a new concept popped up and people started to make clones. The only differences is that nowdays companies are trying to compete with innovation(vapor) and not by making fun or useful products. Was games more fun in the 80’s and 90’s? depends on who you are asking. But for those who likes puzzle games and adventures, it was the golden days. Nowdays games in that area are just cheap clones of the old ones, with a few rare exceptions (usually developed at uni or at home). I don’t know why suddenly the big game houses doesn’t think theres a market in those games. Because there obviously is. I mean, how many middle aged women doesn’t sit in front of the computer every night playing puzzle games? It’s a huge market, and lot of money to make. Seriously. And I still think that racing games are better played with a top view camera. They are a lot more fun like that to me. But I haven’t seen a good top view rally game since death rally(perhaps I just haven’t been looking hard enough). There’s a lot of old successful concepts that could selling gold today if the package was right. Games doesn’t need to require a fast CPU/GPU, 4 DVDs and a multimillion dollar budget to top the charts. The Sims is the obvious example I guess. Because it’s just about how it’s put together. Innovation doesn’t make a successful game. It’s about finding the right mix between old and/or new concepts. A recent example is Worms Forts. They took two old concepts and put them together in an interesting way. I sure haven’t seen any game like it before, even though it contains just two simple old concepts that has been cloned for ages. It’s all about how you put them together. Oh, and by the way. Wasn’t GTA3 just a Driver 2 ripoff with extra violence? 2005-06-05 1:25 pm >>>what a pathetic attempt at trolling. But true 2005-06-05 2:59 pm monkey island rocks my world 2005-06-05 3:08 pm need a first person view, i mean a real first-person view from the head of the driver, i’m not a friend of those “bumper-view” first person views, they’re are nice for viewers, but for the driver it’s annoying. Nobody drives a car with a bumber-view. the best is to offer multiple choices to the gamer. some prefer 3rd person (or i should better say 3rd car view) , some prefer over-arcady-bumper view and some prefer a more realisitic approach. i have to say driving in first-person is a better experience for me than driving 3rd person, which is like steering someone else’s car. 2005-06-05 3:22 pm He never said he will start to make simple games nor A+B button joystick for new nintendo’s console. What he says it is important, is *how the new technology is going to be used*. I remember early E3 conferences, which were basically the same. They show fancy and good intro-movies from the game, but its not the way you play it. People never learn. 2005-06-05 4:08 pm Should be posted in the (badly needed) “Imminent Death Of The Net Predicted” category. 2005-06-05 4:10 pm Actually, it’s Nintendo that’s dying. 2005-06-05 4:22 pm I remember the good old days of innovation… every innovative game was just another 2d platform game or shooter. 2005-06-05 4:36 pm Nintendo is not dying in any way. They are the only console company that is always making a profit on their consoles. Sony and MS havn’t been making a profit on the console sales at all, only in the game sales. While Nintendo was making a profit on the Gamecube from the opening day. Then you have their Gameboys which have outsold any of their competitoin. The DS has more than double the sales of the PSP. SO there is no way Nintendo is dying. 2005-06-05 5:33 pm innovative gameplay, great story, strong characters developement, great art style, immersive game world like wat a great film would give us. I’ve only read briefly about it, but that sounds like Shenmue to me. i have to say driving in first-person is a better experience for me than driving 3rd person, which is like steering someone else’s car. It might be more realistic in first-person but I think it makes the game much harder. Plus, half the fun is watching the car fall to pieces and backflip when you crash 🙂 You can tell a bad racing game by unrealistic/non-existent crash physics. I’d like to see more free-roaming driving (not racing) games. 2005-06-05 5:48 pm Not Ultima Online but the original series, especially 7 and 7 part 2. Those are games that ran properly on my 386SX back in the day. Yet no other game I’ve ever seen has captured the depth of these two. Even though my current CPU is 200x faster and I have almost 200 times the amount of RAM I had back then. Everything went into glitz and glam once game graphics went 3D thanks to 3Dfx. I’m talking PC here since that’s the gaming platform I know best. Where are the truly wonderful gems like Monkey Island and some of the earlier Sierra adventure games? Those were amazing, especially considering the fact that most Sierra games required nothing more than a paltry 286 12Mhz. with 640KB of RAM. Why oh why hasn’t there been any significant improvement in the depth of the stories told in such games. Wait.. I haven’t even seen a game remotely similar to the ones mentioned for literally YEARS. Ultima IX was a major flop because EA bought out Origin and the soul of Ultima, Richard Garriott, left and even that was 1998. 2005-06-05 6:45 pm I know PSP has great graphics… but you should check out a DS. The system finally has an upcoming lineup that looks really good. Yoshi Touch and Go is a new game I just bought and this thing is definitely a new genre. So fun… And have you guys seen that surgery simulation game haha!? 2005-06-05 8:37 pm All those video games are really pathetic, i prefer text adventures games in the style of old Zork. Interactive Fiction rocks…. http://www.ifarchive.org 2005-06-05 8:50 pm I just bought me a SNES with Super Mario Wolrd 4 days ago. It’s so much fun, really amazing, after all these years. It’s probably one of the best games ever, and looking around your average gamestore, I see few games that can compete with it. Innovation from Nintendo gives us stuff like Wario Ware. Meanwhile we get an average of 5 FPS every month, 1 new EA game for each sport each year, 10 platforming duo’s or so, oh and let’s not forget, a couple of racing games for each platform (with your choice of top driver ‘brand’ in the rally genre… oohh exciting). But it doesn’t take much to make a difference. Burnout makes you crash your car, result -> instant fun! The games industry is turning into movie industry, only worse. High cost of development makes it tough to take risks, so developers play it safe, and we end up with the same crap we’ve seen before. Nintendo’s solution: make a cheap console with super easy development and encourage fun from the start. But it doesn’t work, because most people are perfectly happy spending billions on drivel. So it will only change if everyone stops buying GTA 4/5/6 and NFL 2009/2010/2011. Won’t happen. Why? Same reason people go to crap movies like Day After Tomorrow, total lack of taste, influenced by commercials, peer pressure, and unable to think for themselves. 2005-06-05 9:33 pm I’ve never played SMW 4, but Mario Sunshine is easily one of the most fun, innovative games I’ve ever played. In fact, all the fun games I’ve played have been on a Nintendo system. Not to critique Miyamoto as he’s one of the forces behind Mario, but long games (like Mario Sunshine) can be fun as well. You can probably beat the game in 20 hours but you can play for much longer. I’d only point out that Sunshine needs a tremendous amount of co-ordination. That can kill how much fun it is to play the game. 6 to 12 year old children (part of the target audience) would have a hard time playing the whole game. 2005-06-05 10:11 pm I won’t be surprised if Nintendo release teh SDKs for NES,SNES,N64 for free to homebrewers. Thsi would cause a large release of different and innovative games since anyone that wants to can start coding. We’ll even see GTA for the NES. http://www.grandtheftendo.com/ 2005-06-06 5:42 am I would be surprised. Maybe the Revolution SDK, maybe, but why the older consoles? Be easier to give them the Rev. SDK, as it will likely have a newer/easier API than the old ones (which would likely require assembly programming. Not easy) And still, console companies make a good deal off of game licensing. I’d like them to release such an SDK, it would be great and bring them many sales, but no company to date has done something like that IIRC, and there have been several console generations. 2005-06-06 8:26 am Some famed “innovative” games: The Sims, yeah sure, how about “Little Computer People” or much more recently Eternia, Settlers, Populous or the Sim serie? GTA… man, where do I begin with this one? Obviously there’s no innovation here. If your idea of a relaxing time is to beat b1tch3s and cops running endlessly around a poorly rendered ghetto just to spend some nights being raped in jail then fine with me but don’t call that innovative please, have some mercy. Actually there’s a much much better version of GTA already available everywhere it’s very realistic and it’s cheap. It’s paid with blood and tears, try it. Halo is a decent shooter, and decent in the FPS genre means that it just totally blow you away for being so great (just see DoomIII, DoomIII.001alpha (Revenge of Evil) or HL2 for plain dull “better dead than playing this” yet-another-fps). While good, Halo really has the most basic Scifi story you can write, with my very limited knowledge of this pitiful genre I still happen to be strongly reminded of Unreal 1. As far as the genre goes there’s nothing innovative here. On the other hand you have Katamari Damacy, ICO and some DS titles wich are fairly innovative but that’s about all. I should mention that while I love ICO I’m not client for the DS kind of game. I’m not looking for a quick fix (I have dodonpachi for that) but for immersive and creative experience (eg: JSRF, Panzer Dragoon, Silent Hill 3), graphic doo matter but I’m my brain is not sterile I can fill in the blanks. I personally don’t mind playing games that are not innovative but running from A to B just for the sake of it will not cut it. I enjoyed Halo, Half-Life 2 was one of the more painful experience with the FPS genre I ever had and it got interesting (started to show some unexpected/creative stuff) about 5 minutes before the lame finale. Really if I need a ride in creepy town there’s plenty of them everywhere with much better graphics and immersion power than what those “studios” can pull off… As for the very correct remark about ‘sex sells’ I’m afraid marketing depts are very well aware of that… You would think I’ll point to DOA Volleyball? Hell no! That’s for kiddies! Have a look at Bmx XXX or Outlaws Volleyball (the official website shots were obviously censored refer to a gaming site for more accurate pictures), perfect mainstream games with real piece of p0rn inside… REJOICE! You may be able to tell I >was< in the gaming >industry<, at first to make games but I figured that if I was going to sell sodas or candybars I might aswell do that officialy and not die at age 32 of stress and overwork. 2005-06-06 1:10 pm …is Castlevania: Symphony of the Night!!! 2005-06-06 2:26 pm They wouldn’t give away the Rev. SDK for free since they make good money off of seling it, maybe as limited edition SDK to homebrewers, but definatly not the full thing. 2005-06-06 4:11 pm But on the GC… -Mario Party -Mariocart Doubledash -Super Monkey Ball series -Harvest Moon (if it’s your cup of tea) These are ALL great games w/ excellent replay. ADn the first three are easy to learn. The are great fun for parties (4-player) and they won’t suck your life away. 2005-06-06 8:11 pm He says games like GTA demand too much commitment. This seems to be an argument against strong story-telling in games. This is completely the wrong way to go. Advances in graphical technology have made it much easier to tell stroies and have strong characters. Consider Doom 3, which looked prettier than most films but had the standard b-movie script and acting that plague all games. It was based on System Shock 2, a game with possibly the greatest story/script ever told in a game. The highly interactive environment offered enables a variety of ways of presenting characters and events to the player in a controlled but non-linear way. Then there’s The Sims. An atempt to simulate human relationships, which form the core of all good stories. Now all we need are some stories which don’t involve a lone hero killing hundreds of baddies in order to save/rule the world. But what publisher would consider something like that? Not Nintendo, nor Sony nor MS.