Home > Windows > Longhorn Beta 1: Late JulyLonghorn Beta 1: Late July Thom Holwerda 2005-07-04 Windows 29 CommentsNeoWin reports that Longhorn Beta 1, after missing the internal date of June 30th, now is scheduled to be released late July. Most Longhorn product groups have already delivered their beta 1 code. About The Author Thom HolwerdaFollow me on Twitter @thomholwerda 29 Comments 2005-07-04 7:54 pm Longhorn has so many problem I wouldn’t want my worst enemy trying to use it. The “Longhorn Beta 1” can hardly be considered “Pre-Alpha” by serious developers. I personally don’t want to waste any further time on Longhorn unless Microsoft wants to commit themselves to another year or two of intense development. 2005-07-04 8:22 pm > 1. Berkeley database backend.rpm 4.4 can uses sqlite backend.> 5. Absence of logical OR in requirements forces the developer to always regenerate all alternative packages to provide virtual packages.Not true.This can be handled by add Provedes: foo i more than one package. In bar backage add “Requires: foo” handle this case in correct way.> 7. File dependencies are treated in a special way and are not regular virtual packages (a better design would make packages relate only to other packages, real or virtual). They increase complexity of dependency resolution and promote sloppy pratices in software packaging.Not true.> 8. Problematic handling of simple situations such as replacing directories with symlinks. Bad habit of stating all mounted filesystems prior to installation (at least in earlier versions).Not true. Fixed in rpm 4.4.> 10. No provisions for interactive configuration scripts or human inspection/approval of new configuration files, and no concept of post-transaction configuration.Interactive configuring it is not task for package managment program (this kind thing can be performed on interactive install/uninstall). Install/uninstall package must be completly deterministic. This not rpm problem but packagers bad thinking about package managenet things. 2005-07-04 8:27 pm I hear it might have tabbed browsing! Wow. This will turn the computing world upside down. 2005-07-04 8:38 pm “Paul is incorrect in his statement about the Longhorn devs all havingshipped the Beta 1 code. We are still working on the Beta 1 code to readyit for shipment this summer. (no, I’m not going to discuss dates).I will also not comment on his date for Beta 2 – plans are subject to changeas you have all seen with the Beta 1 etc.I will make a comment about this build number thing.We are not at Build 5200 – we are actually past that and yet not !.What Paul does not mention is that we are now currently developing 2parallel build branches- the 509x upwards to 51xx and the 52xx. This isbecause what we do when we get close to a milestone build such as Beta 1 iswe fork the development tree. This allows us to focus one team on finishingoff the Beta 1 code – so bug hunting etc but not adding any additionalfeatures to it; while we continue to develop towards Beta 2 on the otherbranch taking the bug fixes coming from the Beta 1 branch and continuing toadd features etc as we build to Beta 2. This allows for the most efficientway to get a stable Beta 1 and not hold up the complete development cycle.As regards my pulling my post – it was a matter of timing in that the postfrom Paul happened almost in parallel with the fork etc and this was justreflected in the build trees I was working against, after my post was made.I hope this clears all this up.—Regards,Mike—Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]” 2005-07-04 8:41 pm Longhorn beta 1 isn’t even out yet, so how could you know it’s bad?Did you even RTFA? Hell, did you read the title?The only thing that has been released IS alpha builds. 2005-07-04 9:32 pm He has no clue and is just trolling for the fanboys when he says crap like “has so many problems I wouldn’t want my enemies to use it”.Actually, he sounds pretty scared. He hates that Microsoft will continue to dominante for decades to come and that lunix never made it on the desktop 2005-07-04 10:01 pm I can’t wait to try the beta. 2005-07-04 10:06 pm wrong article buddy 2005-07-04 10:09 pm You are just another clueless fool trying to look attention. You are judging a product that has not been released formally to testers or finalized. If you know that Longhorn is not a failure, please lend me your Time Machine and let go to the future and purchase a copy and see for myself if it is really a disappoint.Please, stop spreading FUD, it makes you seem really stupid. 2005-07-04 10:25 pm It never changes, no matter what MS artical is on this site you’ll always have someone bitching no matter what.I personally want to see how beta 1 turns out, and it sounds like it’s very stable for something that’s not even finished.win2k3 is a great code base to work off of and I expect longhorn to be good. I don’t care if the UI isn’t anything really new, or if it’s very new you have to larn it over. If security is better and it’s stable and fast i’ll be happy. 2005-07-04 11:43 pm They close off unecessary ports and they on initial installation run a minimum of services until such time either software gets installed that requires specific services or the user opens a program that loads a service in a modular way for that program and then when said program is closed, the service is unloaded.Optimise the bloody thing and keep it running clean, lean and mean. What I hate about XP at the moment is that it requires a crap load of hand tweaking to get it running well. 2005-07-04 11:49 pm I’ve been watching Longhorn now like everyone else since the first time we all heard about it.I can understand some of the frustration that a lot of people are feeling.I’m a Mac head who happens to own an XP laptop (64bit) at the moment. I want my laptop to be as good, if not better than OS X in a lot of areas (some areas XP is as good, don’t get me wrong)… So I was looking forward to Longhorn being really really nice. Then we hear this feature is missing, that feauture wont quite make it and so on…But heres the thing. I think MS is saving the best for last, I think Longhorn will be a nice OS, much better than we think right now. It will have search up to Spotlight (or better), will have Avalon which looks nice, and lots of other nice features.It’s not what MS hoped for, and gives OS X and Linux more time to attract more interest, but will still be good.I think the problem MS is having is one traditionally associated with Apple, they are trying to lock everyone in by creating their own standards. I think if they embraced others like OS X is, they would have something out the door much sooner. I wish they had *nix under, but that’s another story…I think the tide is turning however… 2005-07-04 11:56 pm On many things not just Microsoft. 2005-07-05 12:45 am Totally agree, on many things… 2005-07-05 1:07 am Win2k3 already does this. 2005-07-05 1:21 am >Paul Thurrot gets an erection whenever a new version of Windows is released.He does, but it’s all a mask. He secretly enjoys his Powerbook actually. 2005-07-05 2:00 am My understanding is there was a systemic shift from the XP code base to the Windows Server code base not too long ago. Hense the new 5XXX build series.This would explain the lack of bugs, and maybe this is a smart move by MS. They gave up on the last Longhorn track and simplified.They took their best code base, and are going to add a new GUI, copy search from Apple, and a few other bells and whistles which is all skin-deep but will wow consumers and give the reviewers the ability to sell more magazines, and Microsoft is “innovating” again and, most importantly, keeping the monopoly alive.Companies will be less than impressed overall, of course, but will welcome the more secure code base. Given Microsoft’s terrible reputation in this area, it will not be enough to inspire mass upgrades, but I think Microsoft knows that type of activity isn’t going to happen any longer. Corporations will upgrade over the next six years slowly no matter what MS does.While this is a dark view of MS, it’s the truth, and it is SMART BUSINESS.I just feel badly for the sucker companies who bough their Annual Upgrade plans. I wonder if MS REALLY won’t offer upgrade prices to Longhorn…. 2005-07-05 3:07 am I’ve said this before, and I’ll keep saying it again.For those of you who think Longhorn will just be a slight facelift and not much more, you are horribly mistaken.The Avalon framework will create a smoother look for the OS and help with better UX. It will give more power to application writers and anyone who wishes to customize. It’s what Quartz is on OSX and more. This is a MAJOR component that Microsoft is adding. Not only will it provide better eye-candy, but it will also be more responsive (despite what some may tell you) than existing UI.XAML and .Net will change the face of windows applications. Watch some of the videos fromc channel9 on XAML and you will see the raw power and potential.Indigo won’t do much for the home market, but in the corporate world, itll make things easier for business software.Monad will make sysadmins jobs easier. Sure there exists tools to do essentially what i does already, but they are hardly integrated nearly as well as Monad will be.There are so many more things going on under the hood and other small things people don’t really talk about. The amount of work going into Longhorn and the amount of change is well beyond what most people want to believe.You can call bullshit on what I said, but you will see I am right when it comes out. 2005-07-05 3:48 am All of the text in this post is in my opinion for entertainment purposes only: <IMO>“I think MS is saving the best for last”I think it’s like: “let’s throw out all these possibilities that may be added or may happen, then we can announce they aren’t or may not be coming or may not arrive on time later.”Remember Duke Nukem Forever? I think a lot of companies have learned that they can say whatever, whenever, or “When it’s done” and still have thousands of drooling fan boys lapping up every word as if it were gospel.Honestly, I don’t care what Longhorn turns out to be.A closed source OS is a closed source OS. Something IMO which goes against innovation, freedom of information, true security, and humanity. Like the music stars and movie stars which are ruled by the record companies, so the people are ruled by their closed source OS if they choose them, which they will likely never truly OWN a copy of, but rather be bound within some EULA much like their soul eventually when they discover that FOSS was more about philosophy and humanity than computers and technology alone. But by then, it’ll probably be too late.</IMO> 2005-07-05 4:13 am i do think it is premature to say that longohrn will be a piece of junk. Rather i think it may turn out to be a decent os.however there are a lot of things to keep in mind.XP came out in 01, we are almost four years from it now, we have had sp1 and sp2. now the point is that MS has been patching the same code base for four whole years, and even after sp2, every month we get a lot of patches and news about how some hole in ie can allow hackers to take over our system.Now, MS is short of time on longhorn, that is working under tight schedule, already the file system has been postponed and maybe some other features. Next Generation Secure Computing Base (NGSCB) has been delayed, for whatever reasons.Now consider this, how can a sane person expect that micorsoft will be able to deliver a os which is maybe a bit safer than sp2?Microsoft has also been boasting about the RIA capabilties of longhorn. Given the fact that ie6 is the most insecure browser after four years of patching, how can anyone be expected to believe that all these RIA tech will not make longhorn a lot more unsafer that even sp2?It may have tech from the year 2020 but if we will still have to constantly worry about viruses and spyware, it is certainly not a good buy. 2005-07-05 6:49 am Ok, let me start of by saying, I am a linux whore. I use it everyday. However, I learned on Dos/win 3.11 and I beta tested XP. To be honest, if I do a search/replace on everything I’ve read to date, with the search term being ‘Longhorn’ and the replacement term being ‘Whistler’ 90% of it will be exactly what I saw before XP came out.Putting my fan boyish feelings, and anti M$ attitude aside for a moment, it’s pretty easy to point and say “You guys suck!” However look at the tight rope they’re walking. They have a userbase of millions, and in recent years they’ve been loosing ground to OS X and Linux. Not much, not a lot, but enough to warrent internal memos on the subject. If they botch Longhorn, it will be one more nail in thier coffin, and they know it. M$ has had an aweful track record since windows first came on the radar, yet they’ve taken a bad product, worked with it, and made it work for them. M$ is a brilliant buisness, if not a decent software company. I loved win98SE, and XP was very nice. No, it’s nowhere near as useful as my linux install, but it works! It would work better if it was secure, and if adware wasn’t an issue, but that’s a fatal design flaw no one really saw coming. Now that we know about it, hopefully windows will get better.Now, about longhorn… I think it’s a good move for M$. It’s lacking in innovation, but that’s ok. There are only so many times you can invent the wheel. Longhorn sounds good, sounds stable, and even secure. It will make many lives easier, and I support that. However, it WILL disapoint a good percentage of the current windows userbase (including companies). That much is already known. ‘A good percentage’ may only be 5% of thier market share, but that’s a huge amount. Those people will inturn move to Linux, or Mac. (Some may choose to give up technology, and move to central New York, or Pennsylvania and take up farming… don’t laugh, one of my amish neighbors used to be an IT guy. He went back to his family roots about the time the major viruses came out for XP.)All in all, I think M$ may save some face on Longhorn, if they play thier cards right. They will secure thier hold of some of thier users, and loose others. Linux and Mac will benifit from the lost users, and everyone will be happy. Also, I’ll be able to ditch my XP install, and put something that I don’t have to upgrade every time I boot it, which will make me a much happier person. (I only boot it once every two months, however, so it’s really a moot point.)To sum up, I’m excited about Longhorn Beta 1, and I hope beyond hope that M$ does it right. (They’d be better off going to a *nix kernel, but if they insist on using thie rown stuff, kudos to them for making to work…. so long as it actually does work.)(Oh, and no, I never plan on leaving linux. To me you can’t have a power user OS without a command line, and dos doesn’t cut it anymore for windows. No, Linux isn’t for novices, however more and more it’s getting it’s act together. It will be nice if Longhorn slaps the linux distro’s in the face, and makes them go, “Gee, we’ve got something to work on…” That’s why I say, “GO MICROSOFT!”)–Morgul 2005-07-05 6:53 am “Actually, he sounds pretty scared. He hates that Microsoft will continue to dominante for decades to come and that lunix never made it on the desktop”Lunix? http://hld.c64.org/poldi/lunix/lunix.htmlI have to give it to you, can’t argue with that! 2005-07-05 7:04 am I think people should hold back; as quoted in the preample; beta 1 won’t include all the features; before beating the proverbial dead horse, how about waiting to atleast RC1 comes out; by then Longhorn would have a retail name for it, all the features would be already in it – aka, feature complete, with only bugfixes being the top priority.As for the future; don’t expect anything radical until application developers start embracing the new API’s being made available to them. 2005-07-05 10:50 am No matter how good or bad Longhorn turns to be. It may be the best thing mankind has ever had or the worst thing that ever made it into this world, it will still be shipped with every new computer sold on this earth and everbody will use it. 2005-07-05 4:58 pm “To me you can’t have a power user OS without a command line, and dos doesn’t cut it anymore for windows.”^^ Funny, as someone who claims to not just be a linux whore that you didn’t know that longhorn will have as robust (they claim more robust but we all know that won’t happen) command line than *nix.Most of your post was utter crap, but hey at least you admitted from the start you’re a linux whore. 5% of the user base won’t leave for linux because of longhorn, get real. There isn’t 5% of the user base that’s sitting there going “well… I hate XP… but I’ll wait just a bit longer for longhorn.” If people wanted to switch they’d switch. They wont’ switch because longhorn was “disappointing” that’s not why people switch. They WOULD switch if linux or OSX came out with some new offering that they just had to have that windows doesn’t. 2005-07-05 7:28 pm The robust command line thing(Monad) has already been pulled from Longhorn and is scheduled to be added in later. (I think you can download a beta now.) 2005-07-05 7:54 pm When will Microsoft release a version of Linux for Africans? 2005-07-05 8:31 pm Anon, Monad was NOT pulled from Longhorn. There were 2 things that were said about Monad:1) The next MSSQL Server will have support for it2) Monad will not be full supported (meaning not all apps will support Monad) for another 3 to 5 years.Neither of those say it will be pulled from Longhorn.Hell, it’s already in beta stage, Longhorn isn’t even there yet. 2005-07-05 9:24 pm its longhorn beta 2 that will include the new gui in november.beta 1 is a waste of time for the general public and should only be released for developers.