Home > Windows > Windows Vista Pre-Beta PreviewWindows Vista Pre-Beta Preview Submitted by Brad Wardell 2005-07-24 Windows 57 CommentsWindows Vista beta 1 is due out by August 3. So what can we expect to see? What are Microsoft’s goals? Wincustomise’s Frogboy shares his views.About The Author 57 Comments 2005-07-24 9:24 pm 1) Security. Microsoft wants to make sure Windows Vista is very secure. It will hopefully bring an end spy ware and malware and the like.Don’t count on it. You may see a drastic reduction in malware, but nothing with the majority of desktop users will ever be malware free, whether it be Windows, *nix, OSX, Amiga, or whatever. As long as you’ve got people who will do what you tell them to do in order to get naked pics of J-Lo, you can count on security problems. 2005-07-24 11:23 pm Varg VikernesYeah, I think a lot of people don’t know what spyware actually is. I mean, Photoshop could be spyware, running adobeloader.exe in the background and monitoring every site you visit, all the forms you entered,… and secretly uploading this to their servers. Information like this costs a lot of money. Unfortunetly the user behind the OS will always be the problem. Studies show that something like 60% of people would give out their passwords to get a free mp3 (or something along those lines). Couple this with phishing and all the other crap that’s been out and you get to the task of not only making the OS/app secure, but to secure the user from himself. There are a lot of people that don’t even know what spyware, virus or trojan actually are (and they shouldn’t). The browser could literally ask you “do you want to install this virus from GATOR Inc.?” and I bet a lot of people would even reply with yes.Then of course is the root of (most of) these problems. The porn, cracks and other “not so legal” sites. If people would actually use the net for something useful, most of these problems wouldn’t even exist.¸I don’t think spyware and other crap is really the developer’s fault – IMO it’s mostly the user’s. The developer should make sure there are none buffer overruns possible, a decent firewall installed (and enabled by default) and a better overall OS architecture model so it’s not easy exploitable.The rest is up to the user. If he chooses to open an attachment from a non reliable source, then there hardly anything to stop him. Yes, the net sure isn’t what it used to be. 2005-07-24 10:14 pm V irussesI nstabilityS pywareT rojansA dware 2005-07-25 12:42 am Nice copy/pasting from a /. comment! 2005-07-24 11:09 pm I can’t stop laughing…. Ah ah ah Microsoft… Security Ah ah ah…. stop it. Too funny. When I see the work necessary at the office to maintain Windows boxes in a decent state, it hurts me to see the money wasted.Put Linux in the server room and Mac OS X on the desktop and live happily ever after.… And then Aero being pretty and kicking ass…. Oh boy some have as much taste as a shovel….I really need to stop laughing.Peace. 2005-07-24 11:11 pm pravdaWindows Vista is the first version of Windows that will support all of the Wintel hardware DRM/spyware infrastructure.It means the end of any real security for the machine. It means the end of your ability to switch to another platform without major cost and expense.But the eye candy looks impressive. 2005-07-24 11:36 pm Varg VikernesA great deal of work in Windows Vista appears to be setting the stage for the future. Long ago, there was a second Microsoft OS code-named “Blackcomb” which was to be the follow-on to Longhorn. In my opinion, Longhorn is setting the stage for what comes next. I think that holds true. That would explain all the backporting of major components (Avalon and WinFX, Indigo). Microsoft clearly has a vision with these things and .NET around them, but it will take much more to “port” people over then just one release. Not trying to say Vista won’t be important, but there are a lot of people who still want their apps on Win2k, XP and those people will still use a lot of Win32 in Vista (you can run a Win 3.1 app on WinXP for example).And then there’s the integration of RSS into the OS. Microsoft seems to believe that RSS is going to be a dominant way of making use of data in all kinds of interesting applications. We think the same thing. For example, when IE 7 starts coming close to release, we plan to make WinCustomize’s skin galleries support RSS.Just a not here – Microsoft will support both RSS and Atom in Vista as can be read here (http://blogs.msdn.com/rssteam/), but as the blog said, it won’t show up in Beta 1. I also believe with the release of Vista there will come to an explosion of RSS. If you read their blogs you know the team has been working hard on this.Overall I don’t think there will be a good reaction to Beta 1 as most of the good stuff won’t even show up until Beta 2 (or RC1?), but I hope there will at least be some stuff to toy around 2005-07-25 2:53 pm JrezINThanks for the link! interesting information!#OSNews: Can’t some of these blogs be sindicated in OS Galaxy too? 2005-07-25 12:55 am CrazyDude0Wow mr anonymous, now people have even started stealing comments.Now for a$$holes like you Linux – Lame Idiotic Nightmarish User-unfriendly suX 2005-07-25 1:02 am CrazyDude0Losers Iditors Nasty Ugly xenophobe Crowd Xenophobe : http://sedition.com/ddx/l/x.htmlHa ha ha…all you Linux users == Lusers are pissin in their pants looking at the impressive list of features in Vista…http://www.activewin.com/longhorn/thestateoflonghorn.shtml 2005-07-25 1:59 am LumberghMS has a lot of smart people working on this stuff. It’ll be good and the linux fanboys know it. 2005-07-25 2:02 am sappyvcvThe sad part is that some people WANT Vista to fail. They think it’s the end of Microsoft and people will finally start moving to OS X and Linux. What they don’t realize is that it could suck and it still wouldn’t bring down MS. But it won’t suck.The best thing that could happen for both sides (pro-MS/anti-MS) is that Vista is truly the best Windows release. That will be GREAT for competition, great for everyone. 2005-07-25 4:47 am Hey I agree with you, if it’s good, and I think it will be, that will then push everyone else to make their products better. Also the changes they make to the way people make apps for windows with WinFX etc, should help to make those better as well.I really don’t care about all the eye candy, though it’s nice to look at, If it’s more secure, performes better and is more stable then Win2003 then it’s a step up.I’ll be looking forward to Beta 1, and Beta 2 even more. 2005-07-25 4:57 am “integrating RSS into the OS” just BEGS for viruses, spyware, and other such ilk. MicroSlop will never learn. 2005-07-25 5:20 am I do hope, and think, that Microsoft has understood that there really is a need for all users to not be logged in as admin. Unfortunatley I do fear that they may, with a lack for better words, “simplify” this too much and botch the job.*a bit of a rant*Probably by making the action of executing software with admin privileges into something as simple as “press ok to run this software” into just another simple dialog that does not require the user to actually take part in the information. Manually entering a password into such a request is a great way to require the user to really think about, “do I really need to run this software, and should I?”. Otherwise it would just become another “next-button” on a dialog that is nothing more than something that just pops up all the time and annoys the user.Probably all windows users probably know what to do when a dialog with a next-button pops up.1: Do not read the information, it is probably some legal spew, techno babble, or something i really don’t care about.2: Press next3: Repeat from 2 until it has gone awayEven as an expereienced computer user I find myself just clicking next-next-next-next since dialogs in such a fashion usually are just an annoyance. And usually that is Ok, but… there are always exceptions. 2005-07-25 6:56 am When you’re the #1 company and you have alot of software makers in your camp, you just enjoy it and you try to improve your current status with innovations and new interesting features that most people may find useful. That’s exactly what Microsoft is doing and they do it perfectly.On the other side, you have the jealous people that always try to put you down because they know they will never be able to surpass you. That’s mostly the case of alot of the Linux people. Why would you waste so much time *trying* to put Microsoft down on slashdot/osnews/ect if you could do better than them? If you could, you wouldn’t care that much about them. But you are inferior, and you’re playing the big fat jealous wife or the skinny ugly husband that needs to get more attention at any price. (don’t take my words too seriously…have a little sense of humour )It’s just funny to realize how old this thing is really. If you don’t get it already, you should pick up a dictionary right now and read the definition of ‘jealous’. I don’t understand why the so uber-smart-linux-people don’t know the meaning of ‘jealous’ and why they are in fact so jealous.Anyway, if you’re not concerned with Microsoft stuff (if you use only Linux) you shouldn’t even read MS threads. But we all know you can’t do that… you have to be a troll once a day by posting some anti-Microsoft propaganda. You’re weird you know?I hope that will help some people to realize what they are doing wrong. I have nothing against alternatives as long as the people involved in them play a nice game. Instead of putting the others down, just try to make better. Maybe someday it will be your turn?For now, Microsoft is leading the whole thing. They do because they performed well in the past decade. After all, isn’t Windows awesome? I think it is. For a developer? Windows is heaven.PS: Stallman is a hippy. Never trust a hippy. =) 2005-07-25 7:57 am Mmmm…..! Smell that astroturf.Well, at least we know that Microsoft’s pre-launch promotional campaign has started in earnest. 2005-07-25 8:02 am “‘integrating RSS into the OS’ just BEGS for viruses, spyware, and other such ilk. MicroSlop will never learn.”Ugh. Are you somehow savvy to their implementation and have some background reasoning behind your opinion, or are you just another in a ubiquitous line of trolls ready to predictably whine and name call anything they do?I’m guessing the latter. 2005-07-25 8:45 am Micro$hit is make crap for 15 years now…..why should “Hasta la Vista” be better???🙂Evilradish 2005-07-25 10:24 am “Micro$hit is make crap for 15 years now…..why should “Hasta la Vista” be better???:)”Flagrant MS Whining. CheckName calling. Check.Lame use of $ sign. CheckLame, witless turn on product name. Check.Complete lack of facts; Rambling emotional statement. Check.Cue troll #46747875884857847584754857478… 2005-07-25 10:27 am The proprietary Microseft system is still a pile of shit. Who would want to pay for a horribly bloated and insecure operating system when you can get Linux and BSD for free? 2005-07-25 2:58 pm With no commercial desktop software being developed for it, using Linux makes absolutely no sense for the average user. Average users share their computer with their family at home, and needs it to cooperate with the other computers at work. Linux isn´t fit for this, as it doesn´t run the games your kid wants to play or MSN Messenger that your teenager depends on. Neither will it play well in your corporate network or run work-specific, in-house developed software. Linux is, and will be for a long time, solely for computer enthusiasts and server use. 2005-07-25 4:10 pm archiesteelWith no commercial desktop software being developed for itThere is some commercial desktop software for Linux. There reason why there’s so few of it, though, is because there’s so much really good Free/Open Source software available. There is, however, some commercial apps that are better than free offering. Examples are MainActor and Piranha, for video editing/effects, or Maya for 3D modeling.Linux isn´t fit for this, as it doesn´t run the games your kid wants to playThe vast majority of games are not available for Windows either, but rather for consoles. The PC games market has been in constant decline for years. Take it from someone who works in the industry: games is not a strong selling point for Windows – the few big titles still available for it (i.e. Doom 3, Half-Life 2, WoW, etc.) all run on Cedega anyway.or MSN Messenger that your teenager depends on.It would help if you did a little research first. There are at least 3 Linux apps that support the MSN protocol (there’s probably quite a few more): Gaim, Kopete and Mercury. The latter (a Java app) even supports webcams over MSN.These apps are actually better than MSN Messenger, because they support multiple protocols and can thus help you track contacts across a variety of services. They are also very user-friendly and easy to use (like a IM app should).Neither will it play well in your corporate networkNonsense. When I plug my Linux laptop at work I can instantly access our Windows-only network (after supplying my Windows login/password, of course). I can print to the printers, and I can easily access my laptop from my Windows workstation.Please stop spreading FUD. Thanks. 2005-07-25 4:24 pm LumberghThe vast majority of games are not available for Windows either, but rather for consoles. The PC games market has been in constant decline for years. Take it from someone who works in the industry: games is not a strong selling point for Windows – the few big titles still available for it (i.e. Doom 3, Half-Life 2, WoW, etc.) all run on Cedega anyway. Haha, I’ve been hearing that since the mid 80’s and it never comes true. The facts are that Consoles always lag behind PCs in horsepower shortly after they come out and are not really suited for FPS and MMOGs. Oh, and you sound very familiar and very bitter that hardly anybody targets Linux for games. 2005-07-25 5:42 pm archiesteelHaha yourself, I work in the game industry and let me tell you that PC gaming is an afterthought. Go to E3 and see how much floor space is devoted to PC gaming vs. console gaming…Horsepower is irrelevant: gameplay is what matters. The fact is that the vast majority of games is NOT available for PCs, be it under Windows, Mac OSX or Linux.As far as consoles not being suited for FPS, maybe someone should tell bungie. After all, Halo and Halo 2 hardly sold any copies, right? MMOGs are also maturing on consoles, Final Fantasy X being a good example.As for me sounding familiar, well I should since I used to post under “a nun, he moos”. I went back to my original nickname (the one I’m currently using) when OSNews introduced its long-awaited user account system (I had changed previously in protest over a name-stealing troll that was polluting this site).Oh, and make no mistake: I’m not bitter at all about the Linux gaming situation. Not one bit. Nada. The fact is that I don’t care whether there are games available for Linux or not, because the PC game market is in steady decline and consoles are where it’s at. Speak to anyone in the industry and you’ll get the same answer.But then again, I should’t be surprised to hear you spout opinions about topics about which you obviously know very little. 2005-07-25 5:53 pm I’m guessing you work in the console branch of the game industry. Have you ever heard of Warcraft? Everquest? Half-Life? Doom? Quake? Grand Theft Auto? Are you aware of the successes related to these PC game series?Windows vs. Linux debate aside I’m afraid your not making sense. 2005-07-25 5:59 pm LumberghWindows vs. Linux debate aside I’m afraid your not making senseAnun he moos lets his emotions get in the way of logical thinking, so it’s not surprising that he doesn’t make sense. 2005-07-25 7:26 pm archiesteelYou’re the one being emotional here, Lumbergh, what with all you ad hominem attacks and gross misrepresentation of my arguments.I, on the other hand, have presented my arguments in a calm, rational manner, for the very simple reason that I don’t have an emotional attachment to these issues. To me it’s business, nothing more, nothing less.When you’ve worked for ten years in the gaming industry, then we’ll talk. 2005-07-25 7:24 pm archiesteelOf course there are a few big sellers left for PCs, but they are few and far between. Only a few players can still afford to develop for the PC market and make a bundle: Blizzard, Id (who make their money selling their engine), Vivendi/Universal (Valve), Microsoft…But apart for these few big titles, what is there? Did you notice that most of the titles you mentioned are more than a year old? Shall I list all the top sellers on consoles that came out over that same period of time and that are not available for PCs? Warning: that would probably go over the 8,000 character limit for a post.(Btw, Grand Theft Auto sold more copies on console than it did on PCs…)As a developer, we’ve made computer games in the past and will probably do a port here and there in the future, but that’s not where the money is. I was at E3 this year, and I swear that floor space ratio for consoles games to PC games was about 8:1 – hardly what I’d call encouraging for the PC game industry. 2005-07-25 5:57 pm LumberghHaha, i knew you were anun he moosGames are still very relevant on the PC no matter what you think. Once again, we’ve been hearing this since the mid 80s, no matter how much you wish for one of windows strong selling points to just disappear.Horsepower is irrelevant: gameplay is what matters. Haha, yeah…you sound like one of those nethack dweebs who says “who needs graphics”. Nice try, but you lose again.And yes, as the parent said Linux is 5 years too late.See ya Anun he moos 2005-07-25 7:07 pm archiesteelHaha, i knew you were anun he moosQuit acting like a teenager. It’s not as if I was keeping it a secret. I was archiesteel before being a nun, he moos, now I’ve returned to my original nickname.Games are still very relevant on the PC no matter what you think.It’s not what I think, it’s the reality of the industry – note that I’m not counting “casual” games for PCs (i.e. Bejeweled, Solitaire, etc.). In any case this would be irrelevant to our discussion, since Linux has a very large selection of such casual games.Once again, we’ve been hearing this since the mid 80s, no matter how much you wish for one of windows strong selling points to just disappear.I’m not wishing for anything at all, simply witnessing the current state of the game industry. Of course, I do think that PC games are more of a pain to produce, since they’re not destined for consistent platforms (i.e. you have to test PC games with WinXP, 2000, 98, with NVIDIA cards, ATI cards, with low memory, high memory, etc. – with consoles, you KNOW the exact hardware in advance).Lumbergh, your own bias is making you misjudge my intentions. I don’t “want” PC games to decline – that’s simply what is happening. If you read trade papers weekly like I do for my job, then you’d know that this is the reality. My personal preferences have nothing to do with it.Haha, yeah…you sound like one of those nethack dweebs who says “who needs graphics”. Nice try, but you lose again.Again, you sound like a teenager and completely misunderstand (not to mention misrepresent) my point. I design 3D games for the major consoles (I’ve got two titles out for PS2/GC/Xbox, with a third one that will come out in fall, along with two Nintendo DS titles). Of course I want more polygons, more texture memory, and so on. However, I also know that you can have amazing graphics and have so-so gameplay.The fact is that the last generation of consoles had sufficient power to make amazing games, and the next generation will be even more powerful. So, from a game point of view the advantage that current PCs have over current consoles is not that significant, and will become even less so with the next generation.I suggest you get to know how the game industry works a little better before trying to argue with me about my profession… 2005-07-26 11:59 am Thing is:1) Best PCs are better than Consoles2) Everyones got a PCTherefore everyone should run PC games, and not have to buy a new console.But only a few people care enough about having the lastest, fastist PCs, and they tend to be tech bores anyway. And although they’re better than the oldé DOS days, it can still be a neightmair to get PC games to run, nevermind trying to work out the requirments off the little writting on the box, works with this graphics card, not with that, blah blah.Sod it, just buy a Playstation 5 and it just works.. 2005-07-25 6:20 pm Of course your Linux laptop accesses your Windows network. And yes, there is open-source alternatives to Messenger.Your laptop works fine for you, because you are not an average user. You know how to set your system up so that it does what you want it to. But the average user doesn´t, and most importantly, doesn´t want to.Not everebody has the time or interest to find good alternatives to the mainstream applications that he or she uses, or put effort in setting up a system to do what´s expected from it. And thus, sticks to the most convenient, namely Windows. 2005-07-25 7:31 pm archiesteelYour laptop works fine for you, because you are not an average user. You know how to set your system up so that it does what you want it to.Uh, no. It worked like this out-of-the box (for accessing Windows network that is – making it accessible from Windows network took a 5 minute setup of Samba using the appropriate KDE control panel).But the average user doesn´t, and most importantly, doesn´t want to.As it happens, the average user will also ask me to help them set up their Windows network, because they don’t have much of a clue how that works either.Not everebody has the time or interest to find good alternatives to the mainstream applications that he or she uses, or put effort in setting up a system to do what´s expected from it.Kopete was installed by default, so I did not have to take any time to “find it” whatsoever. Nor did I have to put in any effort to access Windows network with my laptop. It did so automatically, the first time I plugged it in an ethernet port at work.Before criticizing Linux, perhaps you should try current distros. You’ll be surprised at how much stuff just works out-of-the-box. 2005-07-25 4:14 pm LumberghYou’re pretty much right. Linux pretty much missed the boat to make an impact on the desktop. And then you throw in the fact that there’s never been a LDSB(Linux Desktop Standards Base) and it becomes a nightmare for ISVs to target.Linux, BSD, Solaris are all fine as servers and for people that want a polished Unix desktop they’ll use OSX, the rest will just keep on using Windows and we know that Vista will be good.I’ll still play around with various Linux desktops occassionaly (I’m running XFCE on GoboLinux right now), but it’ll always be a marginal player. Desktop efforts should’ve been started in ’92 when Xfree86 was ported. 2005-07-25 12:30 pm noamsmlit’s all just hype. Windows vista is not going to be some revolution in the OS market, it’s just another version of windows with some evolutionary changes (many of which are ling overdue). 2005-07-25 12:51 pm distantvoices… it is what ppl make with them what is bad.you know, one bad apple spoils the pie.I daresay, yes, Microsoft Windows Products have quite some security problems. and yes, that’s because they are *widespread* mark you: widespread. Enough ppl with a hankering for malice and bragging and standing somehow in the middle of all action can lay hands on windows – and it is of course considered fun by them to do a software giant some harm by excoriating that product.You see, it’s not only envy and jealousness. There are enough security breaches for linux (DoD attacks on TCP/IP stacks aren’t a windows-only problem – and since when one can filter out “syn” requests on the firewall without breaking the whole network is yet to be found out – without trashing all the existing connections.)And btw: I daresay lets *first* give it a shot on our computers and *then* break staffs over it. Ok?stay safe.PS: I wish certain individuals would leave their foul language where it belongs to: at the wc. Thanks but so much. 2005-07-25 7:50 pm LumberghOnce again, to say that the PC as a gaming platform is going away is just wishful thinking on your part because you want Window’s edge in the category to go away. I know it and you know it.Come back and talk to me when HalfLife2, Everquest2, and WoW are on the console. Better tell Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo to start bundling keyboards with their console…oh and a mouse.Once again anun he moos, your wishful thinking does not represent reality. 2005-07-25 8:29 pm archiesteelPlease adress me by my appropriate nickname – that is, unless you like looking like an immature teenager in front of everyone else.Once again, to say that the PC as a gaming platform is going away is just wishful thinking on your part because you want Window’s edge in the category to go away. I know it and you know it.I don’t care about Windows’ edge in that category, not one bit. What I know is what everyone who works in this industry knows: console gaming is where the money is. You can keep trying to pin this down on some supposed agenda that I allegedly have, but that’s simply not the truth, no matter how many times you whine about it.Come back and talk to me when HalfLife2, Everquest2, and WoW are on the console.Half-Life 2 is coming out for Xbox:http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/halflife2/Everquest 2 isn’t even out for PC yet! But since there was an Everquest port for PS2, I think we can safely say that there will be one for PS3 as well.There are talks of porting World of Warcraft to the Xbox 360.You can already plug an USB keyboard and mouse into a PS2. There are USB ports on all three next-gen consoles (PS3, Xbox360, Nintendo Revolution).Once again Lunchbox, your lack of knowledge of the issue at hand is painfully obvious to all but yourself. 2005-07-25 9:04 pm LumberghI don’t care about Windows’ edge in that category, not one bit. What I know is what everyone who works in this industry knows: console gaming is where the money is. You can keep trying to pin this down on some supposed agenda that I allegedly have, but that’s simply not the truth, no matter how many times you whine about it. We know what your agenda is. Your agenda is to convince yourself that the linux desktop market is relevant. And so with that agenda you fabricate a fantasy world where the PC gaming is irrelevant…to compensate for the virtual zero targetting of linux for the gaming market.Half-Life 2 is coming out for Xbox:http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/halflife2/ The FPS shooter on the console will always play second fiddle to the PC because of the console’s limited hardware capacity and no keyboard and mouse.From the article:“Unfortunately, our first impressions of the game are that the graphics are noticeably rougher around the edges than they are on the PC version”Everquest 2 isn’t even out for PC yet! But since there was an Everquest port for PS2, I think we can safely say that there will be one for PS3 as well. Haha, and you say you work in the gaming industry…rofl. I guess since EQ2 hasn’t been released yet is why its been on my hardrive for 6 mos.There are talks of porting World of Warcraft to the Xbox 360. ….everybody is talking, talking, talking.You can already plug an USB keyboard and mouse into a PS2. There are USB ports on all three next-gen consoles (PS3, Xbox360, Nintendo Revolution). Let’s hope so, because I don’t know how the hell you’re going to play MMOG without one.Once again Lunchbox, your lack of knowledge of the issue at hand is painfully obvious to all but yourself.Lack of knowledge? Bahaha. rofl. You say you work for a gaming company but didn’t even know that EQ2 has been out for the PC for 8 months (at least) now. Once again, you have embarrassed yourself. 2005-07-25 9:24 pm archiesteelWe know what your agenda is.Impossible, since I don’t have one.And so with that agenda you fabricate a fantasy world where the PC gaming is irrelevant…Not irrelevant: in decline. Smaller than the console market, in any case.to compensate for the virtual zero targetting of linux for the gaming market.I don’t care about the Linux gaming market: consoles are where it’s at. Period.The FPS shooter on the console will always play second fiddle to the PC because of the console’s limited hardware capacity and no keyboard and mouse.Yes, if you talk about the Xbox…however, the next generation of consoles is right round the corner, and they all support keyboard and mouse.Haha, and you say you work in the gaming industry…rofl. I guess since EQ2 hasn’t been released yet is why its been on my hardrive for 6 mos.Sorry, I was thinking of EverQuest II: Desert of Flames. In any case, we can probably expect an EQ2 port of the PS3. In any case, you thought that there was no HL2 for consoles, so that makes us even.….everybody is talking, talking, talking.Well, since there’s more money to be made in consoles, there’s quite a few reasons that people talk. Tell me Lunchbox, how long have you worked in the game industry? How many times have you been to E3?You don’t have to believe me that a WoW Xbox360 is a real possibility – unfortunately I can’t prove it to you (you’re the kind of freak who could get me into trouble). All I can say is: keep reading the trade papers…Let’s hope so, because I don’t know how the hell you’re going to play MMOG without one.You can already play Everquest on the PS2 with a USB keyboard. What more proof do you need?Lack of knowledge? Bahaha. rofl.How old are you? 13?You say you work for a gaming company but didn’t even know that EQ2 has been out for the PC for 8 months (at least) now.I’m currently finishing two simultaneous projects, I’m doing 60 hour weeks, I’m tired and slightly dazed. I mixed up EQ2 and the expansion. Also, most of my attention is on the console scene because, to restate what is obvious to anyone who works in the industry, that’s where most of the revenue is.Once again, you have embarrassed yourself.That’s okay, because you embarrassed yourself more by claiming that HL2 wasn’t coming to consoles, by claiming that you can’t use a mouse and keyboard to play MMORPG on consoles, by displaying adolescent behavior, by elaborating conspiracy theories about my alleged agenda and by continuing to claim that the PC game industry is not in decline, despite the fact that fewer PC games are coming out while more console games are made each year.Go back to EverCrack, Lunchbox, at least in that fantasy world maybe someone will take you seriously. 2005-07-25 10:01 pm LumberghImpossible, since I don’t have one. Haha. that’s hilarious. Youre agenda is to make-believe that linux on the desktop is relevant when it’s not. You troll around the threads waiting for someone to point out the obvious (like the parent post) and then act like the PC gaming industry is dead. You don’t fool anybody.I don’t care about the Linux gaming market: consoles are where it’s at. Period. But you do care about linux on the desktop, the gaming market is part of – and so once again trolled the thread trying to convince people of your agenda.Sorry, I was thinking of EverQuest II: Desert of Flames. In any case, we can probably expect an EQ2 port of the PS3. In any case, you thought that there was no HL2 for consoles, so that makes us even. Wrong again anun he moos. HL2 isn’t out for the console yet, EQ2 has been for 8 months or so. It makes you wrong, and not us even.‘m currently finishing two simultaneous projects, I’m doing 60 hour weeks, I’m tired and slightly dazed. Yeah, you are dazed and confused about many things.That’s okay, because you embarrassed yourself more by claiming that HL2 wasn’t coming to consoles,You’re lying as usual. I never said that HL2 wasn’t coming to the consoles. It’s not out yet.Go back to EverCrack, Lunchbox, at least in that fantasy world maybe someone will take you seriously.Poor anun he moos, he lives in a conjured up fantasy world where he can somehow make linux on the desktop relevant by trolling the threads. So funny. 2005-07-25 9:39 pm fsckI know many many people in the games industry and yes it’s true it is slowly declining and has been for quite a few years now. Recently it’s become alot more noticable, at least to me anyway. True it’s still alive and it’s stilla driving force in pc hardware and it will probably always remain in some fashion….but it has much less dominance over consoles than it did, much, much less. Not only that but the next gen consoles are powerful *now*, the xbox always had a crap processor even at the time…pfft a celeron 700 who cares! But now they’re ahead of the game and will be ahead of pcs for longer.You mention HL2, WoW, EQ2 etc I can think of some other great titles for the pc: WC3, Far Cry, Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War, Doom3 etc I could probably list 20 or so games i pay on the pc however I could more easily list the 60+ games i have for my ps2…and I only have one console! I know people with all three.Heh, Doom3 has an xbox port, Doom3 works on linux natively and mac os, Far Cry works through cedega, as does WoW, WC3 too, oh yeah…and HL2. Heh, you can even get DoW working flawlessly through Wine…damn when a small company like transgaming can get most of the *major* titles in the entire pc gaming arena working on an entirely different OS it really shows how small the PC gaming market has got, doesn’t it? It will still be around for quite a while yet IMO but it’s nothing compared to the driving force it used to be. 2005-07-25 10:18 pm LumberghThe same thing has happened in the 80s and early 90s before the arrival of the 3d cards. The consoles had dedicated chips to do its video processing so the PC games looked quaint. The prediction of death for the PC gaming market has been around for a long time and never comes true. And as you somewhat pointed out, the consoles always lag behind the PC in horsepower shortly after they come out. How much memory are the next-gen consoles going to have? I doubt its a gig. The next HL2 expansion will require a gig and for good performance in EQ2 you need a gig. The fact of the matter is that the PC will always be the showcase platform for gaming companies because of the way they can push the envelope. Doom3, HL2,….whatever always had to be toned down for the console’s limited memory and graphics. I’m pretty sure that XBox developers use DX so that eases porting pains.As far as Wine, or some of these other translators are concerned, I’m sure they can do a decent job, but usually have their quirks and performance hits. Most people would rather just reboot…except for the zealots.Consoles are cool, but the death of the PC as a gaming platform is highly exagerrated. Anun he moos would just wish it was the case, so that windows wouldn’t have that edge over linux in that category in order to promote his agenda of making linux relevant in the desktop space. 2005-07-25 10:37 pm buttersI didn’t know this post was about linux or gaming. Strange, that. 2005-07-26 12:08 pm Anyhow returning to the article:Better security, yes that would be nice.More intergration with Internet. That’ll be handy for people messing about with my PC from the Internet. D’oh!Looks nicer.And there’s some stuff for developers to put more bells and whistles on their programs to slow the computer down.Well, that’s me sold, PLEASE TAKE SOME MORE OF MONEY!!So how much are we going to pay for XP2? Which was Windows 2000 with a ‘orrible skin slapped on it. 2005-07-26 1:55 am archiesteelYou’re starting to sound delirious. Maybe you should chill out a little.To me, games are not very important for Linux on the desktop, because they’re not that important for Windows on the desktop.I work in the games industry. You don’t. I read the trade papers weekly, you don’t. You claim I have an agenda, but the truth is that YOU are the one with an agenda. You have a bizarre emotional attachment to Windows on the desktop, and therefore lash out at anyone who even hints at alternatives in an immature way – on that note, I will from now on ignore any posts that refer to my previous nick. You can continue to shout it out like a lunatic, it will only continue to damage your already worn-out credibility on the matter.You claim I trolled the thread, but in fact I didn’t. I merely stated the obvious for anyone who works in the industry: consoles have gaine preeminence in the video game world, and most AAA titles for PC can be easily played on a Linux system, therefore that is no longer a real argument in favor of Windows. I state this in a purely objective fashion, as I have no particular interest in the Linux gaming scene – nor do I in the Windows one. Either could flourish or perish, I really don’t care. I’m simply stating things as they are, and of course that challenges your own agenda. This leads you to react in the only way you know how, i.e. personally attack those who disagree with you.Wrong again anun he moos. HL2 isn’t out for the console yet, EQ2 has been for 8 months or so. It makes you wrong, and not us even.Details, details. I tried it at E3, so it’s not vapourware. Just because a game isn’t released doesn’t mean it exist (we’ve had a project finished for over four months, the publisher wants to release it for Thanksgiving so it’s just waiting there). You’re lying as usual. I never said that HL2 wasn’t coming to the consoles.Nice try Lunchbox. It was clear from the context of what you said that you didn’t expect HL2 to come to consoles, just like it was clear that you didn’t know you could play EQ on the PS2 with a USB keyboard. That’s quite pathetic.How much memory are the next-gen consoles going to have? I doubt its a gig. The next HL2 expansion will require a gig and for good performance in EQ2 you need a gig.Consoles do not need as much memory as general PCs, because they don’t have an entire OS + GUI to load into RAM. This is why we develop techniques such as texture streaming and the like.IIRC, both the Xbox360 and PS3 will have 256MB. That’s 4x the amount of the current Xbox. That’s more than enough for the next generation of games. And, in any case, “horsepower” isn’t what make games great. Gameplay is.The fact of the matter is that the PC will always be the showcase platform for gaming companies because of the way they can push the envelope. Really…let’s see, which is the biggest game publisher around? Right, it’s Electronic Arts. Now let’s see, how many PC games is EA putting out this year? How many console games are they putting out? Look it up, the answer may surprise you.I’ll give you a hint: for each PC-exclusive game that comes out each year, there are 10 console-exclusive games.Do us a favor, Lunchbox: put aside your adolescent rantings, start reading the trade papers and educate yourself on the gaming industry. THEN you can come back and discuss this like a rational person, without seeing conspiracies around every corner and lashing out at those who disagree with you. Until then, I’ll do the only thing rational people can do with annoying teenagers trolling the boards: ignore them. It’s not my problem if you’re not able to communicate normally with other people. A little introspection would do you good. 2005-07-26 2:03 am archiesteelIf the PC gaming scene was the powerhouse you make it to be, why would Microsoft have put so much money into the Xbox in the first place? You know that they didn’t make money at all with the console, right? So it can’t just be to get a piece of the pie…No, the reason MS has put so much money and effort into the Xbox is to position themselves strategically in THE key market for video games, i.e. consoles. They understand that – apart from geeks and overclocking freaks – the living room is the real entertainment nexus of the house for most people.Oh, and this may come as a shock to you, and may destroy your whole pre-constructed fantasy world where I am some sort of FSF cover agent, but the fact of the matter is that I have nothing but good things to say about MS as a console manufacturer. They are very helpful, and eager to help developers make the best games possible (compare this with Nintendo, who seems to want to make life difficult for third-party developers early in a console’s life-cycle).I actually like the Xbox. I have one at home, and I may get an Xbox360 when it comes out. MS is the underdog in the console world, so they have my sympathy in that market.I hope I didn’t make your head a splode, Lunchbox… 2005-07-26 2:46 am LumberghYou’re a one trick pony. Here’s your modus operandi. You stroll through a thread, see someone pointing out the obvious problems with linux on the desktop and then you go into troll mode, as was the case with this thread – when you tried to act like the PC gaming market wasn’t relevant anymore…and so it somehow levels the playing field for mass linux desktop migration. You are so predictable. And of course this was a windows thread so of course we have demented linux “advocates” trolling the thread, and you’re right there with them.For once in your life can you have some courage and make an original comment without throwing a hissy fit when someone points out the obvious problems that mainstream linux desktop adoption faces.Don’t act like you don’t have an agenda when you told me that you run around parties handing out Knoppix CDs.People must cringe when you come around thinking oh here comes linux geeklord again trying to shove his crap down our throats.Oh yeah, great comment on the linux smartphone thread. “Thank you China”? nice one anun he moos. 2005-07-26 4:38 am archiesteelI’m sorry, did you say something? I thought I heard something – oh, right, strawman arguments, ad hominem attacks and lying about those who dare to disagree with your narrow vision of the world. That’s really all you’re capable of. Very sad. 2005-07-26 12:30 pm sappyvcvYou’re both arguing semantics, so you’re both wrong. Get it? Got it? Good. 2005-07-26 3:14 pm archiesteelThank you for your insightful contribution to the discussion…but it seems to me that you’re arguing semantics too, and therefore are wrong as well!I agree though that this discussion is going nowhere. By now I should know better than to respond to Lunchbox’s personal attacks… 2005-07-26 4:48 pm LumberghYou’re just embarrassed that I understand your futile and feeble tactics that you use on every post. Maybe if you would use your head, stop trolling, and listen to obvious points with linux on the desktop ever being signifcant than you could have a meaningful discussion. Until then you’re just another linux troll that is laughed at. 2005-07-26 5:42 pm archiesteelCommunicating the only way he knows how…lashing out at those who disagree with him. 2005-07-26 9:00 pm LumberghI know it’s embarrassing for you that you have been exposed as a linux troll and that I’ll be referring to you by anon he moos in your posts so everybody knows who you are.Obviously, you were so ashamed of your past troll comments that you had to change your nick. Have some courage for once. 2005-07-26 9:56 pm archiesteelAre you still here? No one’s reading this thread except for me, you know…and I ain’t buying your delusional BS.Now, this may be hard for your one-track mind to understand, but I didn’t change my nick because I was “ashamed” of anything. I already told you that I changed it back to my original nickname, which was archiesteel, because now we can have registered names. Back then, a name-stealing troll was impersonating me.Perhaps you’re too thick to realize it, but I freely admitted that I used to post under a nun, he moos. If I had been trying to hide my identity, why in the world would I have quickly admitted it to such an adolescent troll as you?You didn’t “expose” anyone. I stand behind everything I’ve said in these forums (except when I said that EQ2 wasn’t out yet), and I’ll repeat it anytime it is appropriate. You can continue your own personal crusade and continue to call me a nun he moos, but you’re the one who’ll look like an obsessed fool. You’ll continue to have more posts modded down than up, which is a good indication of how immature you are.Grow up. 2005-08-01 5:16 am sappyvcvYou’re right about the admitting thing. Too bad you’re still a linux troll for the most part though.