Submitted by “I have noticed these days that the computer market is either falling into some sort of dictatorship or some other power of influence that is forcing the computer market into a no choice market where the choice is handpicked by either some monopoly or by a misperception made by the wrong decision makers in today’s computer industry. The computer market of today as we know it is being prefabricated by influence while hypnotizing the public of that influence.”
Where to begin… Dear lord.
(…) which will ensure that all its government agencies and its own citizens will have ease of access to online documentation and other such services (…)
And is this OpenDocument format accessible by MS Office users? No? Then doesn’t it mean that 95% of the Massachucets (get a spell-able name for that state, people
) population can no longer access their government’s files?
If Google wins out over Microsoft and maintains a dominant position, it will benefit all computer users as well as the computer market as a whole.
So, you basically pick one dominant computer company over the other… At least Microsoft has no access to my chat logs, emails, searching behaviour, files I keep on my computer, etc.
There are many people in the world who see Google as a much bigger threat than MS, because Google literally can see *anything* you do, especially now that they also have IM, local search and email. And even WiFi…
to seamlessly interoperate over the Internet with no inhibitions created by some proprietary and other lock-in mechanisms that keep absolute choice and freedom at bay.
As with the website example the author gave, this is a problem on the side of the webdesigner, of the deliverer of content. It is the deliviring party’s descision to only present information in a certain format; not Microsoft’s. Of course MS has a shady track record when it comes to pushing their own standards; but they do NOT force anyone to only present info in .doc. That’s a descision the bringer of info makes, probably because he doesn’t give a rat’s ass about 5% of the computing world. And I don’t blame him (or her).
And is this OpenDocument format accessible by MS Office users? No? Then doesn’t it mean that 95% of the Massachucets (get a spell-able name for that state, people
) population can no longer access their government’s files?
And who’s fault is it that MS Office doesn’t support the OpenDocument format? I guarantee OpenOffice.org, KOffice, and StarOffice have more users than Lotus SmartSuite and WordPerfect combined.
What’s keeping people from downloading OpenOffice.org or at least some enterprising company from producing a nice little shareware viewer app or Microsoft Office filter for it?
Quite frankly, I see this move by Massachusetts to be a good thing, and one can only hope the rest of the Government will likewise get out of bed with Microsoft.
So, you basically pick one dominant computer company over the other… At least Microsoft has no access to my chat logs, emails, searching behaviour, files I keep on my computer, etc.
How does Microsoft not have access to these things if you choose to give them access to them? Using MSN, Google, or Yahoo! are choices that we make. I think you’ve just contradicted yourself. Microsoft had chat, search, and email services long before Google anyway. I do agree that having any company in a massively dominant position is unhealthy, be it Microsoft, Google, or Apple. Healthy competition is best for the industry.
And is this OpenDocument format accessible by MS Office users? No?
Of course it is. Microsoft simply has to implement import/export filters from published specifications. Microsoft’s competitors don’t have the advantage of published specifications for the Microsoft Office file formats and, by the sounds of it, they will have to get licenses to read or write Microsoft Office file formats for future releases.
Yes this content is available to all Microsoft OS users, just not through any MS software so far.
Thom:
OpenOffice runs on Windows and is available for free. Star Office is available for free if you are running the Java Desktop Live CD. I cannot say whether this liveCD based distro can access NTFS volumes because I haven’t tried it yet, but for the cost of a blank disk you can use Star Office on any content you have access to either over the network or on a disk volume that it can safely read. Or you could just BUY Star Office and install it on yer Windows box ; it’s a lot cheaper than Office.
IBM’s Workplace is coming but I suspect that IBM won’t require all manufacturers of new PC’s to pay them to install it on their machines in order to keep doing business with them. (o;
KOffice will soon be running under Windows.
The claim that Windows users are being shut out of access to public documents is all hot air, no substance.
[Other] Anonymous poster:
MS doesn’t HAVE to do anything unless they want to compete in this space which they seem to be saying they don’t. As to the import/export filters those don’t actually exist yet, so to a certain degree MS can’t provide that functionality [yet]. Others can though, and can do it under Windows as I mentioned above.
On the other hand if they do want to compete in this space they are on the OpenDocument Technical Committee and should have no problem implementing that functionality either directly in their products or, as you suggested, in an add-on product that does the job for end users but makes it somewhat inconvenient for them so that Office seems to be a better choice that they are somehow deprived of becuase the big bad State of Massachussets is denying them their accustomed no-brainer access.
When will KOffice be running under Windows? I have heard no news of a port. Can you provide a link, please?
Thanks.
Inge Wallin mentioned it in his open letter to Alan Yates ( http://dot.kde.org/1127515635/ ):
“Last, but not least: Within a year, KOffice will likely run on Windows as well.”
I don’t think there is already a real schedule. But this port would depend on KDE 4 so I think one year is optimistic. OTOH KDE 4 strives to eliminate / isolate any X11 dependencies to make kdelibs generally more portable so a supposed KOffice port will benefit from that.
I would take this as a rough estimate. A useful version of KOffice may take longer. (Everything IMHO, from the POV of an outside observer)
Thanks for the information, mate. Here’s hoping!
At what point are you going to stop posting this amature crap from osviews? I have yet to read anything from that site that isn’t mindless dribbel and certainly shouldn’t be worthy of being linked to here.
This is OSNEWS, please spare me from the “articles” on osviews that are written like a 6th graders language composition class.
Considering that nearly all the comments about the article are in favor of the article,… it would seem that you are the one out of sync.
You posted this to rip it apart, it seems, but while I don’t agree with everything he says, I also don’t agree with many of your points.
“And is this OpenDocument format accessible by MS Office users? No? Then doesn’t it mean that 95% of the Massachucets (get a spell-able name for that state, people
) population can no longer access their government’s files?”
No, it doesn’t mean that. While it may (or may not) be true that 95% of the population of Massachusetts has MS Office readily available to them, that still means that 5% do not. But 100% of the population can read OpenDocument files using software that is distributed free of charge, while it currenly isn’t clear whether any freely distributed office programs will be able to read MS OpenDoc files. As a part of this program, Massachusetts should distribute copies of OpenOffice.org on CDs at the public libraries to provide accessibility to citizens with limited or no access to the Internet on their home computers.
What we have here is a situation where we continue to have competing document formats. Microsoft was completely included the OASIS OpenDocument specification effort, and yet its representatives reported back that they should pursue their own implementation instead. They decided to pursue a different format, and yet they complain when the MA state government chooses the OASIS format? Microsoft needs to understand that a critical aspect of developing your own format is accepting that you will need to support any other existing formats. The rest of the document world came together on a format so that they can all support a single common format going forward. I’m not aware of any office suite besides MS Office that chose to develop its own going forward. Chances are that many office suites will develop support for MS OpenDoc format, because any Microsoft competitor in the document space has always had to undertake this burden. Welcome to our world, Microsoft. It looks like you’ll need to support OpenDocument in Office 12 afterall.
“So, you basically pick one dominant computer company over the other… At least Microsoft has no access to my chat logs, emails, searching behaviour, files I keep on my computer, etc.
There are many people in the world who see Google as a much bigger threat than MS, because Google literally can see *anything* you do, especially now that they also have IM, local search and email. And even WiFi… ”
I agree with you in theory, where Google and Microsoft are competitors in the same space. But they aren’t. Microsoft is the dominant desktop platform, whereas Google is the leading web platform. The Microsoft lock-in results from the fact that the desktop platform is tied directly to your computer. There is a significant barrier to migrating from one platform to another, and an even more significant barrier to arbitrarily combining technologies on a single desktop platform. The web platform is only connected to your computer through a (more-or-less) standard web interface. If you want to switch from Gmail to any other webmail, just point your browser and sign up. Now, moving your mail from one webmail account to another might be difficult, and this is an inherent drawback to these types of services. If you want to use Yahoo for mail, MSN for mapping, and Google for searching, then you are free to do so.
As with the website example the author gave, this is a problem on the side of the webdesigner, of the deliverer of content. It is the deliviring party’s descision to only present information in a certain format; not Microsoft’s. Of course MS has a shady track record when it comes to pushing their own standards; but they do NOT force anyone to only present info in .doc. That’s a descision the bringer of info makes, probably because he doesn’t give a rat’s ass about 5% of the computing world. And I don’t blame him (or her).”
You’re entitled to you opinion as much as anyone else, but expressing this opinion as the Managing Editor of ONews.com (Exploring the Future of Computing) is questionable. Why should anyone read a news site devoted to exploring the world of computing if it’s editor-in-chief believes that it is wrong for a government to mandate the delivery of documents in a standard format that every office suite agrees upon except for Microsoft? Who thinks it’s acceptable to ignore non-Windows users since they make up a relatively small proportion of the population? Who apparently believes that the future of computing is limited by the demographics of today’s computing environment?
Like I said, I respect your right to your own opinion, and I realize that there are many who sympathize with your opinion. However, if you are going to express opinions that justify the treatment of open source and alternative software communities as second-class citizens (of Massachusetts or otherwise), then you should do so anonymously.
I screwed up the formatting, that huge paragraph has a quote in the second half of it, to which the last two paragraphs respond.
You’re entitled to you opinion as much as anyone else, but expressing this opinion as the Managing Editor of ONews.com (Exploring the Future of Computing) is questionable.
That’s why I expressed my opinion in the comment’s section. I could’ve also just *not* post this article at all. *That* would be bad.
It is quite common for journalists to intertwine opinion with facts/news. It is, however, quite uncommon for journalists to clearly seperate the news/facts from personal opinions. Be happy that OSNews makes this divide.
when did you make the jump from news link poster to journalist?
I seriously think you should listen to the meeting;
http://www.peapodcast.com/msc-oss-sig/MTLC-MAOpenFormats-2005-09-16…
If you still disagree after that point, at a minimum you will be informed.
“And is this OpenDocument format accessible by MS Office users?”
This OpenDocument format is accesible by 100% of PC users, no matter what previous software they have on thier PCs.
Just because one of their programs will not view the documents does not mean that they cannot access the content.
Even if OpenOffice sinks without trace, and all references to it are destroyed, the document format is open, and available, so others can rebuild a reader.
This cannot be said for MS .doc formats (Of various flavours).
To repeat: OpenDocuments can be accessed. By Everyone.
(Personal peeve: Don’t attack people/places on their name, Tom!)
(Personal peeve: Don’t attack people/places on their name, Tom!)
Then how about spelling my name correctly?
Google seems bent on delivering such a paradise where all computers users are served, not just Windows users!
Isn’t that bad now is it?
There are many people in the world who see Google as a much bigger threat than MS, because Google literally can see *anything* you do,
Your provider also,and anyone having access to your subnet and tech savvy enough included.
It is the delivering party’s descision to only present information in a certain format; not Microsoft’s.
The server side only uses what’s most common period.So in order to have the best compatibillty you are forced to use an OS/browser that comes closest to the standard.I think it’s not good that one company dictates more or less what is standard.
“The computer market of today as we know it is being prefabricated by influence while hypnotizing the public of that influence.” – but he’s right! He’s completely, totally right! That’s exactly the thought that has existed in my head for a while.
“That’s a descision the bringer of info makes, probably because he doesn’t give a rat’s ass about 5% of the computing world. And I don’t blame him (or her).”
What the fsck are you doing running a website like this.
This article came off as a pathetic, whiney, rant. Boo Hoo my favorite website doesn’t support my >5% of the market web browser. The “market” allways corrects itself. No one is forced to use one technology over the other consumers drive this not tech companies. Besides there isn’t a middle ground ultimately we will trade one monopoly for another.
My money is on Microsoft. They will probably succeed pushing google into irrelevancy, not unlike Netscape. When MS integrates it’s web services with their OS, people, business and developers will use it. Like they are using MSN Messenger, MS IE, MS Moviemaker, MS Office, .NET, IIS, DirectX etc. no matter how superior alternatives might be. Sad but true. Apple and IBM do not want to compete directly. Linux and OSS won’t be able to compete directly.
“My money is on Microsoft. They will probably succeed pushing google into irrelevancy, not unlike Netscape. When MS integrates it’s web services with their OS, people, business and developers will use it… Sad but true.”
I hate to be erring on the side of philosophy (called religion or zealotry in the media), but if you recognize this situation to be “sad” (read: disadvantageous to you and/or others), then why is your money on them? If you recognize that alternatives might be superior, then why is your money on Microsoft?
What I find sad is that so many tech-savvy people see the Windows lock-in as a negative, but don’t do anything about it. Don’t tell me that you’re not a programmer, so you can’t contribute. If you can post on OSNews, then you can write documentation (at least in your native language, if not in English.. or you could do translations). If you can complain about bugs or missing features on OSNews, then you can file bug reports!!
Because betting on unlikely outcomes isn’t sensible, perhaps? You can use products that aren’t made by Microsoft, you can support products that aren’t made by Microsoft, you can make a concerted effort to develop and promote products that aren’t made by Microsoft, and you can even hope deep-down that products not made by Microsoft triumph over products made by Microsoft, but if you color your analysis with your personal desires you’re not doing yourself any favors. I’ll take a six-sided die with five faces with ones and one face with your favorite number, and we can place equal bets on what will come up. You pick your favorite number, and I’ll pick one. We’ll see who walks away with more money. It’s not an endorsement of one.
“Google has been using a more open approach to its business strategy by making sure all computer users can utilize its software and services, either directly and/or indirectly so that all computer users can enjoy the Google experience.”
You mean like Google desktop search. Oh wait, windows only.
Or Gmail notifier, oh wait, windows only.
Or Google talk, oh wait, windows only.
Google has not released 1 piece of software that is cross platform, except their web search.
When the Google fanboys wake up to the world that not only now is their OS dictated to them, but the tools used to connect and find information are now also dictated to them, by the same company.
Considering it’s an osviews article, I was actually expecting something with ufo’s and bill gates anal probing people.
Curious why you would say that.
osViews doesn’t have any bias against Microsoft. If the computer-savvy populace does, it will certainly be reflected there but the site isn’t publishing anything out of the norm.
If everyone that dislikes Microsoft congregates together and writes opinions of Microsoft products that deride it, then that’s a biased sample. For an obvious comparison, take the globally-popular red-headed stepchild that is the Fox News Channel. If some commentator on the channel refers to people from France as cheese-eating surrender monkeys then that’s probably not statistically unusual for commentators on that network, but it doesn’t represent the views of the broader population very accurately.
Though you’re of course attacking a straw man to begin with, since the original poster said nothing about a Microsoft bias. That is unless the implication of UFOs to you suggest “bias” rather than “tabloid.”
Japal, don’t waste your time on trying to explain to Kelly the concept of bias.. Read this long entry in my blog in which I explain how that Kelly guy attacked me (and Eugenia before me) and OSNews without reasons:
http://cogscanthink.blogsome.com/2005/09/12/explanation/
Yes, KellyM is the owner of osV.
I posted this story because I hoped it would generate interesting discussion. However, from the low number of replies here, I see that people are very well capable of ignoring the crap articles. Which is good
.
Due to the low-quality of previous content on osViews I never read anything there to refrain from providing impressions for what are usually wastes of my time. Upon reading your blog entry, I do find it most-amusing that anyone would suggest that OSNews is anti-Apple. OSNews provides a lot of coverage for Apple and its products, and often in a positive light. I’ve always considered its staff (even when Eugenia headed up content selection and editorials, and with her criticisms of various Apple decisions) to be pro-Apple. It’s just not, well, on the other side of reality which is why the site is of decent-quality and why I read it. I think Kelly could honestly stand to learn something from OSNews if he wants people to read content on his site.
“Due to the low-quality of previous content on osViews I never read anything there to refrain from providing impressions for what are usually wastes of my time.”
osViews has had its dud content… and yet so has OS News. The fact that you are compeeled to disagree with OSV but not OSN shows that OSN caters to your personal biases. Why else would you seperate them if they have similar track records?
“Upon reading your blog entry, I do find it most-amusing that anyone would suggest that OSNews is anti-Apple.”
I didn’t say that OSN is anti apple. I said that the site continually chose to post articles that cast Apple in a negative or neutral light. Rarely in a positive light. I pointed out a string of 6 of these types of articles in a row and Thom got real bitter about it and chose to ban my news submissions as a result.
[i]”I think Kelly could honestly stand to learn something from OSNews if he wants people to read content on his site.”
Im sure there are several things we could teach each other.
I disagree with OSNews all of the time, its content is just of higher quality. So I read OSNews and not osViews.
Rather than always find yourself in a position where everyone except you is biased, and everyone except you is responsible for how others react to your behavior and work, take some responsibility and stop thinking it’s anyone else’s problem.
“I disagree with OSNews all of the time, its content is just of higher quality.”
How would you know… you said you don’t read the site… and the only examples of content you can point out of osViews where our content is lacking are ones that we happened to take down after we considered them sub-par (unfortunately too late)… keep in mind that OS News has done this in the past as well.
“Rather than always find yourself in a position where everyone except you is biased”
You don’t understand. I’m not saying that at all… and though I think Thom may think similar to you judging by his bitter dialog on his blog, my point is that I know I am biased… as is everyone on the planet. We all have our biases. When I say that osViews lacks bias, what I’m saying is that community-driven web sites lack the ability to have bias.
Community-driven web sites, (sites consisting of content supplied by readers) are more in tune with those that read a web site simply because it is these same individuals which also create it. osViews is a technology barometer that gauges the overall opinions of the technology-focused community. OS News’s content on the other hand is primarily comprised of a handful of editors.
If osViews content (consistently) appears to be in contrast to your technology viewpoints, this is an indicator that your technology perspectives are not in tune with those of the greater technology community.
You mentioned that you prefer the content on osViews and that the content differs between the sites. Even if we negate the fact that your perspective comes from false pretenses as you’ve made your opinion of osViews based on 2-3 removed articles, when osViews content consistently differs from sites like this one, it means that these sites are either feeding off of each other’s own hyperbole, are producing company-sponsored content or are allowing their editor’s personal biases (remember we all have them) to dictate the style of content being published.
Technology journalists (and news link posters like Thom) tend to have a great deal of angst for osViews methodology because it places a magnifying glass on the personal biases.
japail, assuming that you like OS News more than osViews even after you’ve given osViews a fair comparison, that only means that you prefer Thom’s biases over that of the greater technology community.
Community-driven web sites, (sites consisting of content supplied by readers)
Your site isn’t community driven, Kelly. Since it is you, and you alone who decides what get’s through… How is it community driven??
“Your site isn’t community driven, Kelly. Since it is you, and you alone who decides what get’s through”
A moderator is necessary otherwise people would post spam if the site was left open to post anything.
Rarely have I opted to not post an article. I think I opted to not post 7 articles in the 2 years that the site started focusing on news links rather than solely publishing origional content.
I do however recognise the need for a voting process so that more people can opt to vote down articles. I’m moving to a system where readers can vote on submitted articles… kindof like digg.com.
> How would you know… you said you don’t read the
> site…
I don’t, but I have. Maybe you can figure out why I don’t read it, since me telling you plainly isn’t enough. When your articles aren’t so factually incorrect it causes my eyes to bleed, they go beyond my limits of junk journalism.
> When I say that osViews lacks bias, what I’m saying
> is that community-driven web sites lack the ability
> to have bias.
Community-driven websites are biased. Actually they’re the most obviously biased websites to anyone that makes an honest effort to objectively process information. They’re a self-selecting sample. Take a look at K5 or Free Republic sometime. Or any largely community-driven environment. Look at the comments here, the comments at Slashdot, the comments at NewsForge, or the comments at Groklaw.
And beyond the rest of your comment I won’t bother reading, because you’ve already started off by making claims about me that aren’t true. Good work, you couldn’t go one paragraph.
“I don’t, but I have.”
Yes, you’ve said you’ve read the three articles that we removed from the site.
” Maybe you can figure out why I don’t read it, since me telling you plainly isn’t enough.”
Sounds to me that you don’t agree with the greater technology community.
“When your articles aren’t so factually incorrect it causes my eyes to bleed”
We have published bad articles that we took down. Not unlike this site. You seem to be compelled to judge the site based on those three articles because all the other well-written articles happen to disagree with your technology biases.
“Community-driven websites are biased”
They are biased only in that they are biased towards the more common way of thinking.
“They’re a self-selecting sample”
The industry influences the content. That content influences the readers the readers influence the news submissions. The strategy makes it more representory of the industry at large as opposed to a web site that has a handful of editors, finds people that are of like minds and the has news link submitters that are of like-minds.
“Take a look at K5 or Free Republic sometime. Or any largely community-driven environment. Look at the comments here, the comments at Slashdot, the comments at NewsForge, or the comments at Groklaw.”
Groklaw, newsforge (I don’t known Republic) are not good examples because the produce editor content. That influences the readership so that it is like that of the editors. OS News has editors that pick content that they like… THAT THEY LIKE. That influences the readership so that it is like that of the editors. The clocest example of a community site are K5 and Slashdot. The type of content that osViews publishes is more like that of these sites. Similarly, the communities are similar. Anything that doesn’t follow that example tends to attract people like the site’s editors and all their biases.
“And beyond the rest of your comment I won’t bother reading, because you’ve already started off by making claims about me that aren’t true. Good work, you couldn’t go one paragraph.”
If you can insult me, you can at least respect me enough to read my response to your insults and how I corrected you when applicable.
> Yes, you’ve said you’ve read the three articles that we
> removed from the site.
Actually I’ve read two articles that I have knowledge of you removing pulling. I’ve also read articles that I have no idea whatsoever as to what you’ve done with.
> Sounds to me that you don’t agree with the greater
> technology community.
I am a member of the “greater technology community.”
You think you and your readership are the “technology community.”
> They are biased only in that they are biased towards
> the more common way of thinking.
They are biased toward their own way of thinking, much like and self-selecting sample.
> The industry influences the content.
The people that participate in your site influence the content.
> The strategy makes it more representory of the
> industry at large as opposed to a web site that has a
> handful of editors, finds people that are of like
> minds and the has news link submitters that are of
> like-minds.
Your community is not a representative sample of the IT world.
> If you can insult me, you can at least respect me
> enough to read my response to your insults and how I
> corrected you when applicable.
Stating blatantly incorrect things about me is not correcting me, it’s lying. Thanks though.
“Actually I’ve read two articles that I have knowledge of you removing pulling. I’ve also read articles that I have no idea whatsoever as to what you’ve done with.”
that says a lot.
“I am a member of the “greater technology community.” “
And it would seem that your opinions are not in sync with the majorirty.
“You think you and your readership are the “technology community.””
No, I said that its an accurate representation of the technology community
“They are biased toward their own way of thinking”
Which happens to be the way of thinking of the majority.
“much like and self-selecting sample.”
A self-selecting sample that are represntory of the greater technology community.
“The people that participate in your site influence the content. “
And the opinions of the people that influence the site content are each representatives of the greater technology community.
“Stating blatantly incorrect things about me is not correcting me, it’s lying. Thanks though”
If I lied, you might have a point. But I didn’t. So you don’t.
You can keep telling yourself a lie until the sun or you expires. You’ve wasted all of my time you get with repeating yourself for one article.
kellym: And it would seem that your opinions are not in sync with the majorirty.
And it seems you feel for some strange reason that your views are in sync with the majority, despite the fact that alot of people in the “technology community” probably have never visited your website or even heard of it.
My friend… There are a LOT of people in the technology community and I do not claim to know what the “majority” think as a result. One thing I do know though is that no matter what your website serves a SUBSET of the technology community same as OSNews… Same as MSDN… Etc…
Also it’s funny that you compare yourself to Slashdot, when it’s obviously dictated by an editorial staff, and since I was referring specifically to its comments section, completely subject to censorship by peer-pressure (moderation). Also that while you cede similarity to K5 you ignore that it is plainly biased. All of these websites are filled with people that think in certain ways, and that’s why they post there. Darl McBride himself could post comments at Groklaw, and the resulting activity in the comment section would certainly show how unbiased the commentors are.
Most community-oriented sites are self-selecting and biased, and hold themselves to no standard of neutral point of view.
“Also it’s funny that you compare yourself to Slashdot, when it’s obviously dictated by an editorial staff”
The editorial staff is there to write the occational editorial, but primarily to select news *that people submitted*
“Also that while you cede similarity to K5 you ignore that it is plainly biased”
Biased to the opinions of the greater technology community. I know that you’d rather have it be similar to the opinions of Thom Holwerda as you and he seem to be like-minded but the goal is to be representatives of the community and NOT representatives of an editing staff.
“All of these websites are filled with people that think in certain ways, and that’s why they post there. “
EXACTLY! The same with osViews.
“Most community-oriented sites are self-selecting and biased”
Sure. Biased to the opinions of the greater technology community (as opposed to the biases of a handful of editors)
“and hold themselves to no standard of neutral point of view.”
i.e. osViews
Kelly, you claim that your site only publishes that what it’s readers want… And somehow you seem to think that your 20 000 readers somehow are a better representation of the “greater tech community” (something that doesn’t exist anyway) than OSNews’ 120 000 daily readers… Somewhere it tells me that isn’t quite right.
Secondly, in our little email rant you alwready acknowledged that you block submitted newsitems when you don’t agree with them, so I don’t really see where youre site is different than OSNews… It even completely ignored the PDC! How can you call yourself an OS site when you don’t even report about the biggest operating system in the world!
The only difference between osV and OSN is that OSN has five times as many editors as you have (so consequently is 5 times as more balanced since all five of us have different interests and likes/dislikes) and about 6 time as many readers.
Oh, and it was the opinion of the greater community that the world was flat. Does that mean they’re right? No. A few challanged this idea, and it turned out they were right. That is the job of the press; to give a voice to people that are otherwise neglected. And that’s what OSNews is all about: to give a voice to anyone who likes computers, OSs or similar. No matter if you’re a user, dev, or Apple zealot like yourself.
It even completely ignored the PDC!
As opposed to OSNews, which posted article after article of non-news, product announcements disguised as news, with overlapping content and astro-turfer blogs. The whole thing could have been reported in 2 posts maxl, ike the Apple developer conference. This while completely ignoring the story of the moment which was the CEO of the most powerful software company (Balmer) saying he would kill the rising star of the IT world Google.
It’s either bias or stupidity, either way the quality has taken a nosedive lately. That includes this article which seems to be posted for the sole reason of you being able to post your opinion on it.
Thom,
I didn’t attack you at all.
I did however speak to you privately as to how I disagreed with what you are doing.
The fact that you decided to make this a public matter compells me to take it to that level as well.
Lest you get bitter abouyt it after the fact, … remember… YOU brought this on.
What is this, pre-school?
“If everyone that dislikes Microsoft congregates together and writes opinions of Microsoft products that deride it, then that’s a biased sample.”
Agreed. But if a fresh sample continually reiterates the same opinions of the first sample over and over again then anyone that disagrees with the group is the biased one.
“For an obvious comparison, take the globally-popular red-headed stepchild that is the Fox News Channel.”
Thats not a good example as that is more of an indicator of a group of journalists dictating what should and should not be on the news. When a handful of journalists dictate what they consider newsworth (as opposed to “the people”, you get a much greater liklihood for bias to influence what is being published as well as how its published.
“Though you’re of course attacking a straw man to begin with, since the original poster said nothing about a Microsoft bias.”
Forgive me but when somebody says that they expected to see, “something with ufo’s and bill gates anal probing people” that tends to imply that the site has an anti Microsoft bias.”
“rather than “tabloid.””
It’s not a tabloid either. Rather, its a barometer of what the technology community is thinking at any given time.
> But if a fresh sample continually reiterates the same
> opinions of the first sample over and over again then
> anyone that disagrees with the group is the biased one.
Please let me know when you’ve successfully completed any study of statistics.
Further, stop moderating my posts down (most of the downmods on my account I suspect are from you) when they do not violate the guidelines provided. I know you aren’t quite as effective now that they’ve deleted your shill accounts, but it’s still childish.
“Please let me know when you’ve successfully completed any study of statistics.”
Already done.
“most of the downmods on my account I suspect are from you”
Ya… certainly nobody else could disagree with you.
“when they do not violate the guidelines provided.”
If I’ve ever moderated-down your comments it was because there was a problem with it. You seem to think that I’m seeking you out or something.
“I know you aren’t quite as effective now that they’ve deleted your shill accounts”
huh?
> Already done.
Then please tell me why your understanding of sample bias is broken.
> Ya… certainly nobody else could disagree with you.
Most of the downmods are from you, and discussions with you and it’s childish. Grow up. Disagreeing with someone is not grounds for moderating a post.
> You seem to think that I’m seeking you out or
> something.
No, you don’t seek anything out. You just downmod posts you don’t like, which is a violation of the moderation guidelines.
“Then please tell me why your understanding of sample bias is broken.”
Its not broken. It sounds as if your suggesting that we take 20 samples, if they all agree with each other except for one, we should take the one, and use it as a representory of the greater whole. I’m suggesting we use the other 19.
“Most of the downmods are from you, and discussions with you and it’s childish.”
And how do you know that?
“Disagreeing with someone is not grounds for moderating a post. “
Who ever said it was?
” You just downmod posts you don’t like, which is a violation of the moderation guidelines.”
That’s simply not true.
> Its not broken. It sounds as if your suggesting that we
> take 20 samples, if they all agree with each other
> except for one, we should take the one, and use it as a
> representory of the greater whole. I’m suggesting we
> use the other 19.
I’m suggesting that you learn statistics before you make plainly absurd comments about bias. You think that your self-selected sample is a representative sample. It isn’t.
> And how do you know that?
Because they follow directly from any disagreement you have with me. It’s purely coincidental that when you go off the deep end, right?
“I’m suggesting that you learn statistics before you make plainly absurd comments about bias.”
I’ve worked at a market research company for over 2 years. I know the business. I plainly stated that we all have biases. I didn’t say that Thom is publ;ishing overtly biased content. I said that his personal biases (along with the other editors’ are influencing the site’s content. It’s inevitable when these people’s jobs are to pick news itemns that *they* find interesting.
“You think that your self-selected sample is a representative sample. It isn’t.”
Thats the problem with your way of thinking. I did *not* select the group of people that selected the site. If I did, you might have a point. because I don’t influence the content, I can obsolve myself and the site of any bias. The same cannot be said of any site that has a handful of editors cherry picking news links.
“Because they follow directly from any disagreement you have with me.”
Sounds as if you’re just upset that people are finding the fault in your comments after I expose it.
> I’ve worked at a market research company for over 2
> years. I know the business.
Plenty of janitors work at market research companies too, any have a similar misunderstanding of statistics.
> I plainly stated that we all have biases.
>>> osViews doesn’t have any bias against Microsoft.
>>> If the computer-savvy populace does, it will
>>> certainly be reflected there but the site isn’t
>>> publishing anything out of the norm.
>> Agreed. But if a fresh sample continually reiterates
>> the same opinions of the first sample over and over
>> again then anyone that disagrees with the group is
>> the biased one.
You’ll find that this discussion has absolutely nothing to do with Thom Holwerda.
Your site is not a representative sample of people in the technology sector, or even the IT sector. You can select as many biased samples as you want (though your site does not embody this anyway) and the results are just as useless. Your statement is wrong.
> Thats the problem with your way of thinking. I did
> *not* select the group of people that selected the
> site. If I did, you might have a point. because I
> don’t influence the content, I can obsolve myself and
> the site of any bias.
This is also wrong. This is elementary material we’re talking about here.
> Sounds as if you’re just upset that people are
> finding the fault in your comments after I expose it.
There is no fault in my comment that you could expose that makes it fit the criteria for moderation. What I am tired of is you acting like a juvenile and downmodding my comments. Since you lack even a modicum of knowledge of statistics (which you’ve demonstrated plainly for me in at least two different instances) I would appreciate that you stop talking about bias.
There are more alternatives to Microsoft today than there ever has been. That dog don’t hunt.
The market place voted and made Microsoft and Windows the monopoly that it is today. People wanted a GUI over a command line, and the PC over the Mac.
The market place will continue to vote on which computerized system it wants. That vote may just side with Microsoft.
Most people new to computing don’t realize that the compatibility problems that plagued interoperability during the ‘80s have pretty much been eradicated since the advent of the World Wide Web other than the proprietary standards being pushed by companies like Microsoft who instead of thinking of what is best for its customers, goes out of its way to protect its padlock on current and future markets.
HA! I laugh at the semantic and grammatical stupidity of this sentence from the article.
At least Microsoft has no access to my chat logs, emails, searching behaviour, files I keep on my computer, etc.
So you hope. I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you.
It can’t be disputed that Microsoft has stifled innovation and competition in a major way. Imagine where we’d be today if Microsoft had not killed so many companies and initiatives.
I’m not worried where it all will go. We are bad managers of our destination and we have an unerring talent to consistantly make the wrong choice for as many people as possible.
If it is the intention to change the way we think about what the computing environment should look like we will have to change the way we do things.
Change is a major pain in the nether regions.
People don’t want to upset the status quo.
Basically, in more ways than one, we’re royally screwed.
/has lost faith in anything man-made except pasta, toilet paper and tooth brushes.
//”I have noticed these days that the computer market is either falling into some sort of dictatorship or some other power of influence that is forcing the computer market into a no choice market where the choice is handpicked by either some monopoly or by a misperception made by the wrong decision makers in today’s computer industry.//
Come again? That may be the most awkwardly-worded and confusing sentence ever written.
Begone!