Home > Windows > In-Depth Windows Vista Build 5231 PreviewIn-Depth Windows Vista Build 5231 Preview Submitted by Andrew Bragdon 2005-10-22 Windows 63 CommentsA detailed look from bentuser.com at Windows Vista Beta 1 build 5231, including Windows Media Player, Media Center, the updated IE7 build, Aero Glass, Games, etc. About The Author 63 Comments 2005-10-22 9:21 am exigentskyWhile it doesn’t particularly excite me in terms of productivity features, its look rivals only Apple. I look forward to trying it out when I get a new PC in 2007. 2005-10-22 9:29 am And my computer blew up, spyware totally killed it and it’s unusable. I pray for the day when Windows will catch up to desktop Linux 2005-10-22 10:29 am jesstaah, I guess you surfed porn using internet explorer, opened every email attachment sent to you, installed “freeware” and “shareware” programs from download.com all while running as adminitrator.Good stuff.I’m guessing your linux install will probably just as insecure. 2005-10-22 4:40 pm raver31he could do all the stuff you mentioned on his Linux install, and it would be just as secure as it was on day one.HINT: Google “Linux security model” and “Linux security flaws” 2005-10-22 10:00 am Is this OSNews or Microsoft News? Lately its been getting out of control and a bit biased. I want to read OS info and not MS propaganda. 2005-10-22 10:10 am Andrew YoullLol, Systems in my home are as follows:Mac Mini: – MacOS X 10.4iBook: – MacOS X 10.4Athlon64: – PC-BSD 0.8.2Sony Vaio: – Windows XP ProFujitsu-Siemens Scaleo: – SuSE 9.1 ProSo I wouldn’t call myself Windows biased, I publish pieces based on how interesting I found them, as there is a chance that what I personally find interesting will interest others.So what is it? what are we publishing too many posts about? MS? Ubuntu? and what are we biased towards? MS? Ubuntu? BSD? Mac OS X? because we have been accused of all of these, so really it seems we’re pretty balanced or we have personality disorders that permutate every now and then bringing a whole new Bias into the equation. 2005-10-22 1:17 pm dylansmrjonesPerhaps I read wrong, but it seemed to me that the article was pretty critical in regard to the functionality and the look of it. For once I’ve read a review from a person thinking like me.I’d turn off all the eye candy as the first thing, that’s for sure. But then it’s unlikely I’d upgrade to Vista. Unless it unchanges radically 2005-10-22 4:16 pm I have to say, whenever I see a Windows Vista article on OSNews, or any other site, my first thought is, “Ugh! Again?”I know we see articles on other upcoming OS releases (like the recent ones about OpenBSD 3.8), but with Windows Vista, the number of articles seem to far outweigh those of other unreleased operating systems.This is probably because the other operating systems (Ubuntu, OpenBSD, Slackware, FreeBSD, etc.) release within a month or two of the article whereas Vista hasn’t been released, and isn’t going to be released, for a long time.To me, it looks like this though:Slackware 10.2 is going to be release next Monday.Slackware 10.2 will not include Gnome.OpenBSD 3.8 will be released in 10 days.OpenBSD 3.8’s new song is cool.Windows Vista changed the orange in the Windows logo from RGB(153,51.0) to RGB(204,102,51).Bill Gates says Vista will be cool.Windows Vista will ship with a redesigned Start buttonWindows Vista will take more machine power to run than Windows 3.1Windows Vista to include Microsoft Mocha Factory.A duck walking near a Seattle beach today farted and the resulting puff of sand resembled Windows Vista logo, witnesses say.Windows Vista…Windows Vista…Windows Vista…It’s not that OSNews’ is biased, perhaps, but this is the way Microsoft’s marketing machine works. Keep people interested in your unreleased crap so they won’t run off and buy somebody else’s crap by releasing stories about Vista and Office every day.Regardless of who’s responsible for all these Vista articles, I have to admit that for me it is a bit irritating; and I’m a Windows user (go ahead OSNews team, check your web logs )Nonetheless, I enjoy reading OSNews. 2005-10-22 4:46 pm raver31OSNews has a job to do, and that job is to report News based on Operating Systems etc etcNow, this might come as a shock, but OSNews does not make up the stories. It mearly provide links to news that other people put out.Now, it could be that there is no news that week for your distro of choice and 20 for Windows Vista.To not report news is censorship and this site does not support that.How is this so hard for you all to see ? 2005-10-23 4:22 pm OSNews has a job to do, and that job is to report News based on Operating Systems etc etcDidn’t blame OSNews for releasing the articles did I? I don’t believe so. Maybe you’d like to go read my ENTIRE post instead of just a couple lines.Now, this might come as a shock, but OSNews does not make up the stories. It mearly provide links to news that other people put out. You’re a bright one. I’ll have to give you that.Now, it could be that there is no news that week for your distro of choice and 20 for Windows Vista.Wasn’t aware that Windows XP was referred to as a distro, but regardless, I hardly think Vista has enough impact or importance at this point to be worthy of 20 “news” articles. It is still what, a year away?How is this so hard for you all to see?Here, I’ll make this simple so you can understand the point I was trying to make. Ready?I don’t know why other people complain about Windows articles. I’m not them. For me, however, it is because most of them are valueless, substanceless, useless, uninformative, pointless, poo, etc.How many years have we been subjected to Longhorn/Vista “news”? How much of it has been relevant?At least with Ubuntu, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, SuSE, and others that we’ve seen a lot of lately, you can buy/download them or will be able to do so in the near future (within a month). When can you get Vista? A year from now?Yeah, that matters.Finally, I am talking about news articles in general. Not simply those found on OSNews. If you take a look at ALL of the Windows Vista articles over the last week there have been what, one? 2005-10-22 8:44 pm LumberghI have to say, whenever I see a Windows Vista article on OSNews, or any other site, my first thought is, “Ugh! Again?”Let me guess, you would prefer another Ubuntu review. 2005-10-23 4:00 pm Are you daft? Seriously, I wish people would actually learn how to read.I didn’t say I was sick of Windows news articles, but rather sick of pointless Windows news articles. You’ll also note that I didn’t direct the comment at OSNews, but rather at Microsoft’s marketing machine.I don’t mind Ubuntu articles (even though I don’t use it) because Ubuntu is actually RELEASING STUFF. 2005-10-22 10:07 am BlackJack75Not sure this is more propaganda than all the linux distribution reviews we see. Everyone writes about what he likes.Now, is this really the definitive look for Windows Vista in the screenshot? Looks really like a cheap theme from the early days of linux. The last time I tried Ubuntu it look much more polished and professional. Not to mention my good ole mac of course. 2005-10-22 10:13 am Complaining about MS articles? Did you read the review? It was an Apple/OSX advertisement disguised as a MS bash session lol. Save the complaints for articles that actually show Vista in a positive light. 2005-10-22 10:19 am I’d rather slide a turnip inside my rectum than try any thing from that company who gave me blue screens. 2005-10-22 4:47 pm Tom KThe company didn’t give you blue screens. Your el-cheapo $200 PC gave you blue screens.Try Windows XP on NON-BROKEN hardware and you’ll wonder where all the Linux fanbois get their “OMG XP IS SO UNSTABLE” tripe. 2005-10-22 5:06 pm raver31I see you are still a muppet 2005-10-22 7:02 pm sappyvcvHe has a point, but I wish he wasn’t so trollish with his posts (and his username). 2005-10-22 7:51 pm raver31Indeed, the username is bad enough, and all his posts are trollish….have you seen his user rating ?I think he really is a Linux user though, and just comes on here to cheer himself up, after his wife nagged him all day 2005-10-22 10:24 am That was not biased, it was a decent review. Now this would be biased:http://microsoft.toddverbeek.com/index.htmlhttp://Microsoft.com/ 2005-10-22 10:26 am [http://Microsoft.com/] 2005-10-22 10:27 am It always changes M i c r o s u c k . c o m to microsoft.com. Trust me, it’s not the same thing. 2005-10-22 10:46 am Andrew YoullHi, Adam implemented Word filtering on certain words to prevent possible flaming, I can verify that Microsoft.com is a real site, and I’ll see if Adam will remove the exact phrase “Microsoft.com” from the filter. 2005-10-22 10:36 am This was a good review with decent shots. Windows Vista finally will finally put some competition into the market. Does anybody know any linux distribution I can download with hardware accelerated graphics and 3D effects as standard (like OSX, Vista)? 2005-10-22 10:53 am I still don’t understand why it took so long for the biggest software house in the world to release a product like the one we’re seeing today. Fact is, either they’re holding tons of stuff in their secret labs, or they lack focus. The beta we’re seeing is not only unpolished and unfinished, but sometimes simply designed the wrong way. Where is the COMPLETE rewrite Microsoft and biased journalists talk about? I don’t know. I’m highly disappointed. 2005-10-22 6:35 pm sappyvcvFirst of all, it’s well known (if you read OSnews) that Microsoft reset work onVista last year in July. Started with a fresh slate using the Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 code.Also, I don’t think I’ve seen anyone with a clue say Vista would be a “COMPLETE rewrite” anytime in the past 2 years. 2005-10-22 6:43 pm Does anybody know any linux distribution I can download with hardware accelerated graphics and 3D effects as standard (like OSX, Vista)?No, because you need an Nvidia card to get those kind of effects in Linux and then its still very unstable. If you want to try, here is a guide I made:http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=75527 2005-10-22 10:45 am Windows Vista finally will finally put some competition into the market.Whereis MS’s security prime? 2005-10-22 10:46 am ah, I guess you surfed porn using internet explorerUmm I surf whereever I like to. If I feel like surfing on porn sites, then I’ll do so, and that’s no reason that the browser installs <random spyware> on my computer without asking me. 2005-10-22 9:14 pm CPUGuyWell, the browser won’t install ANYTHING without asking you.It will, and does, come up with a screen asking you if it is ok to install this. It has ALWAYS been this way with ActiveX. 2005-10-22 9:31 pm Yeah, except the user can’t always be trusted. People have a way of clicking through things that don’t concern them, which means this is just as useless as automatically downloading/running them without access restrictions. It’s completely possible to automatically run or download programs without giving them complete access and allowing them to destroy the computer, it’s just that microsoft, apple, etc. obviously don’t feel like expending the effort to do so (I have yet to see an OS that has actually at least tried to implement this).-bytecoder 2005-10-23 6:52 pm CPUGuyIn Vista, you can sandbox indidvual processes so that that process can not manipulate/see any data outside of it’s little box.IE7 will be taking advantage of this, even on XP. 2005-10-23 8:58 pm I suppose that’s a step in the right direction, albeit a little late–*nix has had chroot jails for a while). It’s still way too coarse to be useful, though, and really can’t compete with fine-grained access controls.-bytecoder 2005-10-22 11:15 am gonzaloI’ll never get Vista. Really. And I’m no [other OS] zealot.Eye candy is something, but heavily f*cking up the usability of the windows is another very different thing. Window titles have been rendered unusable with that oh, so cool transparency. Window controls (min, max, close) wider but shorter in height? Why, if I may ask?And in general, it seems that someone at MS has forgotten completely about contrast. Light grey over white, dark grey over black. Sure, that will be welcome after I spend 14+ hours in front of my monitor. 2005-10-22 3:30 pm ma_dIt’s a CTP. The usability party-poopers haven’t got their hands on it yet . Trust me, the release is not going to look anything like the CTP given all these new graphic abilities.Calm down people. Sheesh. By the time it releases all the animations will probably be small and ultra quick, and you won’t be able to do anything but have them on or off. Well, unless you pay $20 to someone like stardock or wincustomize for software to do it for you… 2005-10-22 9:10 pm gonzaloI didn’t say a word about the animations.But anyway, I know this is not the final thing. Still, if you look at all the leaked screens and builds since the first ones, you can see a trend in the details, and sorry but that trend is not at all promising. 2005-10-22 11:23 am smitty_one_eachAero is an acronym, according to the good folks at Wikipedia, for Authentic, Energetic, Reflective, and Open.<your troll here> 2005-10-22 11:29 am I have to admit, that although I am working as a sysadmin in a Microsoft dominated environment, I am a having more than a little difficulty finding a sound business case for upgrading.I appreciate that MS has awoken IE from its coma, and sure, some of the GUI changes looks nice (and some don´t). But what are the really compelling reasons as a business user for upgrading (who couldn´t care less about a new media player)? Where are the productivity gains, that justify upgrading the hardware, and starting a huge expensive rollout project.I have the same feeling that I had with Win ME. ME was simply the wrong OS at the wrong time, because it lacked the the things that made Win2000 a sure winner, while it kept the things that made Win98 a completely outdated OS.I no longer see the desktop as being value-added. The desktop has become a part of basic infrastructure, and is losing the strategic importance that it had, just a few years ago.Windows Vista will be the fattest client ever – delivered at a time when we are looking more and more into thin clients, web apps, virtualization etc, in order to decrease deployment costs. Finding a business sponsor for a Vista migration project will not be easy.I am really starting to think, that Vista is the wrong OS at the wrong time. I feel the exact same lack of enthusiasm for Vista, as I once did for ME. 2005-10-22 11:42 am http://www.bentuser.com/image.aspx?ID=c655ca0d-740f-4a1f-9880-64174…Vistaglassophobia, noun: A severe fear of, or aversion to, Windows Vista’s new user interface. See also: Masochism.Seriously folks, I’ve been a diehard Windows user since 3.1, however I came across this screenshot in a review for the latest CTP release, and this is just crazy cluttered… let me clue you in on a AIM conversation I had with a good friend (and Mac user) on this very issue.[05:12] Knight of NI: heya[05:12] BooberryWoofles: hey how ya doin[05:12] Knight of NI: eh, I’m gettin by I supose[05:12] BooberryWoofles: ditto[05:13] BooberryWoofles: digestive system is in an uproar, cant sleep[05:13] Knight of NI: same here heh[05:14] BooberryWoofles: reading about windows vista, i’m fascinated by the new feature enhancements, however I am NOT happy with the new start menu, too cluttered and it’s an eyesore[05:16] Knight of NI: I certainly won’t be impressed whatever they come up with hehe[05:17] BooberryWoofles: well i think OS X has its user interface problems as well, just in different areas hehe[05:19] Knight of NI: it’s not just the ui I’ve just never enjoyed using windows, but thats just me[05:21] BooberryWoofles: understandable[05:22] Knight of NI: but then again I was already a mac user at the time so I just saw a knockoff os anyway hehe, but as long as they make actual improvements on it I guess[05:22] BooberryWoofles: ya, windows 3.1 was my first GUI[05:25] BooberryWoofles: what’s ironic about vista is, with all the trouble they’re putting into features to help you organize and find you files and such, the start menu is beginning to look like that junk drawer everyone has that holds everything from old drained out batteries to screwdrivers, to old warranties on electronics you sold on ebay years ago…[05:26] Knight of NI: hehe[05:26] BooberryWoofles: i mean seriously lemme get a pic for ya[05:27] Knight of NI: but old batteries and empty cigarette lighters stuck to the drawer by candy goo is fun[05:28] BooberryWoofles: lololol[05:28] BooberryWoofles: i think MS calls that a UI[05:29] Knight of NI: maybe they’ll have a hand sanitizer for when you stick your hands deep in the drawer and your fingers are stuck together when you pull em out[05:29] Knight of NI: hehe[05:29] BooberryWoofles: look at this start menu on the bottom left, it’s insane…[05:30] BooberryWoofles: lol mind if i borrow those comments for my blog? thats good stuff[05:30] Knight of NI: nah go right ahead[05:30] BooberryWoofles: *snicker*Seriously folks, I dont know what to click on first, let alone how to attempt keyboard shortcut navigation for the disabled, and from what I’m reading, MS is removing a lot of the customization options so if you’re not happy with the interface then tough. Please someone tell me this isn’t true…Hey Mr. Gates, you guys have got a lot of time until release, don’t squander it, get on this issue pronto, k? 2005-10-22 12:01 pm windows 1.0 – 3.11 was taken clearly from mac oswindows 95 interface was largely based on risc osunderneath the above two os’s there diffrent to there clones, interface wise there not diffrent 2005-10-22 12:20 pm This Windows Vista is pure cosmetic. Nobody will upgrade your system because the windows are tranlucid, window maximizing/minimizing have special effects and other cosmetic features. Maybe poor Mac fans that have no money to buy Apple products nor intelligence to use linux or *BSDs.Why we see a big number of americans that don care about free (as freedom) software ? USA was the land where this concept born but, ironically, I think that is the country more MS-biased and Apple-biased of the world ! I don’t understand this, specially when there are many people in USA with Unix background and there are no problem to read english documentation and tutorials of these free softwares like other countries who don’t speak english natively. Mys english is not good but even with this limit I have no problem to use linux and other free softwares.In my country MacOS X is seen as a tech toy for futile riches and everybody use outdated (because they are light and do the job) pirated versions of windows (specially people with less knowledge) or linux. 2005-10-22 2:22 pm At the risk of feeding a troll, people in the USA are too busy using the software to care about its origin, be it open or closed source. Most people really don’t give a damn; if it works, that’s enough. If it costs money, well, as long as it’s reasonable, they’ll pay.Welcome to the free market. 2005-10-22 3:38 pm ma_dAnd the feedback on this site is an excellent illustration of just how they do in fact care. Not over politics, but over the practical result fo closed software: Users get less choice in its direction because they politically have no power whatsoever.Sure, Microsoft has always made concessions for certain groups. But I think the nature of the current Microsoft does not lend itself to that: They seem to be more into doing things how they want to rather than compatibility (like the old guys were into).But Microsoft isn’t going to listen to “DiscoJoe” on #microsofties (on irc.microsoft.com) for their featurelist. All he can do is threaten to move to someone elses software, and they know he won’t do it anyway .With FOSS software, if you don’t like the new version: Apply bugfix patches to the old version. If you can’t get the bugfix patches (often the case, especially with smaller projects), fix the bugs you want fixed yourself and use the old one: Or even contract someone to fix the bugs if you’ve got money. But forks remain rare: Because developers in the FOSS community care about user feedback because they love good user feedback.It’s no fun developing with no user feedback, trust me, I know. 2005-10-22 4:52 pm Tom KAnd you think the comments on this site are indicative of the general public’s opinion? Hahahahahah!The general public couldn’t give two shits about whether the software they use is open-source, “Free”, GPL’ed, BSD’ed, closed, proprietary, or whatever else. To reiterate the parent’s post … people don’t care, as long as it works.I can attest to this. I use FreeBSD because I find it the best for server work. I use Windows XP SP2 because I find it the best for general multimedia and gaming. I use OS X because I find it the best for general work and productivity. I don’t concern myself about anything more. FreeBSD could be closed, and Windows XP could be free and open-source for all I care.*As long as it works and works well* 2005-10-22 6:06 pm Hugo“(…)Because developers in the FOSS community care about user feedback because they love good user feedback.”You’ve got to be kidding… 2005-10-22 6:42 pm Well, that’s true for most of the good projects, the same as it is for some proprietary software, as well. I don’t see what practical information you’re basing this on, but it’s way too general to actually mean anything.-bytecoder 2005-10-22 1:10 pm I HATE the transparent title bars. I assume you could turn that off? 2005-10-22 1:44 pm or do their widgets look like something Sony’s R&D GUI lab crapped out. All this plastic/blue/shiny effect all over every button, mixed with the gray slate look, mixted with the transparent frames. So far I see nothing really new, besides the 3d Chess game, which looks oddly similar to Apple’s Chess game. Their WMP also looks like an iTunes rip off. While the features are knew compared to previous Windows versions, this just looks more and more like an over-the-top Apple/Linux knock off. 2005-10-22 1:49 pm RawMustard5 years to make transparent title bars, they could do this in 2k if they really wanted. There must be more they’re not showing, because if there isn’t, I’m guessing heads will roll once the sales don’t show up! Why would you buy it? The mind boggles… 2005-10-22 2:47 pm Yes, you can turn off the “glass” UI, if you want to – and quite a few people will want to, I should imagine. Several of the devs in my shop turn off the Windows XP theme, and switch back to “classic”, for example.As to the UI being built on the Windows Presentation Foundation – this isn’t quite true. WPF is part of the managed WinFX API, and the key assemblies for that don’t even ship “in the box” with current CTPs of Vista. Both WPF and the Vista shell are built on top of DirectX-based rendering shells, and, for all I know, share some implementation under the covers, but they are not the same thing.As to changes in the way the interface is used – there were substantial changes between 3.1/NT3.51, Win95/NT4, Win2k and Windows XP. Those changes cause some people some pain, but often they are a change for the better, when new muscle memories are learned. Just because something is familiar it will be easier in the short term (where you tweak your mouse to get to the tabs, for instance), but in the long term, it might prove more productive. I’ve found that with several features of the new Explorer – when I go back to WinXP after a day with Vista, it takes frustratingly more clicks or drags to perform a simple operation.However, I agree about the new Media Center API – it is just horrible!M 2005-10-22 3:25 pm ma_dHis bonus rant seems to forget the first 12 years of Windows.Excluding 3.11 and under, as they were easier to upgrade (theoretically):Win95Win95bWin95…Win98Win98SEWinMEWin2KWinXPWinXP SP2 (seems to have caused almost as much trouble as a full upgrade for people dependant on a lot of badly written network software: A lot of companies).Companies don’t care how fast the release cycle is, they care how long the support cycle is. Since WPF support is being backported, at least to XP, I don’t see this as a problem at all.He obviously didn’t think that rant through before he published it. 2005-10-22 3:51 pm How is it that they can manage to make something worse than Windows XP, honestly? Not only do they go completely overboard with smart folders, or whatever they’re calling them these days, they also manage to uglify the UI to the point where it’s annoying to use.Microsoft has also added the concept of virtual folders to windows. First seen in a large scale on Apple’s OS X Tiger, these are essentially saved searches that refresh each time you open them. Since indexed search is a big part of Windows Vista, it can do this relatively transparently. Microsoft ships Vista with a bunch of virtual folders including one for recent files, one for all documents, and one for all media files. Seems like it should be a good tool for keeping our digital lives a bit more organized.Hmm, not really. Smart folders are probably the worst thing to use in this situation, because people will very likely mistake them for normal folders, which they aren’t. This sort of thing just adds an extra layer of complexity that’s not needed. To sum this up, if a user is going to try and put files in it, it shouldn’t be a smart folder.-bytecoder 2005-10-22 3:57 pm Nothing that I see really excites me. The one thing I was really looking forward to, WinFS, won’t be available for several years. Perhaps I should switch to a Mac. 2005-10-22 5:22 pm Do you know the old story about a man who bought a half-dead horse, pumped it through its asshole, so that it looked like it was young and powerful? In the end that horse died on half the way … (That is an old russian story, IIRC)The point is that microsoft is doing nothing else.Let’s look at IE – they update the GUI, but not the core. There are other browsers based on IE, I remember myIE from Windows … or is it now called Maxton? I don’t remember it anymore. Nothing else did Microsoft do – take the old engine dll and put a new GUI in it.The same is for any other OS component – they heavily modified the GUI, but changed relatively nothing on the core which seems to have stayed on the state of Windows 2000 – until 2006 it will be over 7 years … a long time w/o any updates (SP2 was no more than a hack).No proper out-of-the-box rights, no proper www support, no proper security policy. I can proceed, I won’t.The question is: do we need a Doom3 as the major desktop operating system? Zeta and Haiku are moving – there is no difference between Zeta’s no-multiuser support and Windows’ I can click multiuser support.As for me – I’m downloading Haiku’s HD image to develop for that great operating system … 2005-10-22 6:00 pm I’m secretly hoping that the slick design of Haiku and its open source nature will screw both Windows and Linux. Why? I loved BeOS, and Haiku is such a cool name. Call me shallow. If I can get both sides hating me, I’m pretty sure I’m doing something right.I’d like to see Haiku develop a bit of organisation and spine, by enforcing standards through an OpenGL style ARB, and ramp up its marketing for developers and users. I’ve got no interest in stroking the egos of ranting zealots who can’t design or code for shit.I know this is a prety blunt view, but the Windows monopoly and OSS religeon is about as wearing as it gets, and Haiku looks like the best option going to cut through all that shit. Personally? I’d like to see IBM et al dump Linux and switch to BeOS. 2005-10-23 1:39 am #I’m secretly hoping that the slick design of Haiku and its open source nature will screw both Windows and Linux. Why? I loved BeOS, and Haiku is such a cool name. Call me shallow. If I can get both sides hating me, I’m pretty sure I’m doing something right.I’d like to see Haiku develop a bit of organisation and spine, by enforcing standards through an OpenGL style ARB, and ramp up its marketing for developers and users. I’ve got no interest in stroking the egos of ranting zealots who can’t design or code for shit.#Join the club. I can’t code but I know a decent OS when I use one and still nothing has entered the market from a desktop point of view that was as elegant as BeOS. All I call for is get rid of the POSIX crap and simplify the file system layout.Haiku, you are our only hope…Get to work developers (whip crack heard loudly in the background) 2005-10-23 1:35 am Look at all the moronic Microsoft haters coming out of the woodwork to spew their hatred. Somewhere there’s a predictable moron saying how Windows is finally starting to catch up to Linux, while another predictable moron says how Windows is finally starting to catch up to Mac OS X. And of course there’s your even more deluded bunch who insist Windows will never catch up to Linux or OS X. Meanwhile, the world remains overwhelmingly entrenched in Windows, and happily goes about its business, ignoring these zealots and their impotent, useless fury. 2005-10-23 1:45 am And the purpose of this rant was…? You’re not going to change anything from that little post, and you’re only serving to strengthen the fire. You’re better off just posting something relevant to the discussion and ignoring the trolls.-bytecoder 2005-10-23 5:41 am i will never use windows due to philosophical requirements regarding free software, but for those who do choose it, there is a need for a better platform than they have today, holes in windows have become a societal issue, we need them plugged even if we are rooting against ms. 2005-10-24 2:21 am proformaWhat I don’t like about the F/OSS community is that linux advocates have hijacked the community.I still love open source and free software, but it doesn’t have to be a political statement, it doesn’t have to be anti-microsoft and pro-linux. There can be F/OSS software on Windows itself.Windows is not open source, but it is an open platform as opposed to a closed platform like a video game console.I do not care about Linux. I think it has made Windows better with security and stability and I like that part, but I think it’s way overhyped and it’s used way too much as a political statement and people like this have hijacked the original excitement about F/OSS.I wish there was a L/F/OSS movement so not everyone would lump linux into the F/OSS movement as F/OSS does not belong exclusivly to linux but for Windows also.There is a place for F/OSS and there is a place for closed source software for a fee as well, there is a place for both.However you can have free and open source software on windows and there is a lot of it on windows, but some how it mainly is a linux movement now and I think that is sad. 2005-10-24 2:34 am I’d rather stick a plunger in my anus and bounce like tigger across the Earth than use any product from the convicted monopoly. 2005-10-24 6:18 am Doesn’t anyone care about what the new OS can do? It seemed like the article focused far too much on how it looks, what themes, and backgrounds were used. Unless that’s all that changed in Vista from XP, lets have the rest of the important stuff. How about performance? How about reliability? Did they change anything architecturally (this is a new OS, after all)? C’mon, lets have a real review of these things. 2005-10-30 7:02 am hey guys anyone knows the beta 2 release date?WinVistaSecrets.com is saying it’s gonna be on 16Dec05The thread is here:http://www.winvistasecrets.com/forum/index.php/topic,857.0.htmlanyone can confirm?