Xfce developers have detailed their plans for the next release, and it includes a change that might ruffle some feathers.
We will also play with client-side decorations where we feel it makes sense (for instance replacing the so-called XfceTitledDialog, that is used for all settings dialogs with a HeaderBar version). Before anyone gets too excited (both positively or negatively): It is not planned to redesign more complex applications (like Thunar) with Headerbars in 4.16. We will however try to keep the experience and looks consistent, which means gradually moving to client side decorations also with our applications (please note that client side decorations are not the same as HeaderBars!). Through this change e.g. “dark modes” in applications will look good (see the part about the Panel below).
Now before there is a shitstorm about this change I would kindly ask everyone to give us time to figure out what exactly we want to change in this cycle. Also, switching to client-side decorations alone is not a big visual departure – feel free to also dig through the client-side decorations page if you want to read/see more on this.
Not everyone likes these, but I think they tend to look better and cleaner, so I’m all for it.
They identified a redundant component and are removing the wrong one. They are making the same enormous mistake apple made in their now-extra-terrible safari ui. Chrome made a similar mistake. Don’t trade consistency and usability for a measly 16 pixels of vertical space.
Oh, please. You think I can’t see 16 vertical pixels on my 96dpi high-def? 16 vertical pixels is a usability issue on my 3 GKrellM displays and xclock.
When you expect a “consistent” interface, I call you “brittle.” The least little change breaks you.
Adjust and adapt.
To be honest, I’m not sure what *either* of you are talking about.
cosmotic talking about Safari and Chrome sounds like he’s against CSD, but, in that context, “Don’t trade consistency and usability for a measly 16 pixels of vertical space.” only makes sense if CSDs not being used as headerbars are *less* wasteful of screen space, rather than more.
Because I don’t know that, I’m unsure what gus3 is replying to.
That said, “When you expect a “consistent” interface, I call you “brittle.”” can be easily countered by arguing that the same argument justifies having some applications on your desktop using Windows-style Ctrl+X/C/V Cut/Copy/Paste keybindings, others having Mac-style Cmd+X/C/V keybindings (we can let Super/Windows take that role), and maybe throw in a few with the IBM CUA Ctrl/Shift+Insert hotkeys that MS-DOS and early versions of Windows used, all based on what their upstream developers personally prefer to use.
It’s not just aesthetics that SSDs bring you. It’s the set of titlebar buttons and context menu entries. Anyone who’s tried to use Chrome without native window decorations enabled knows that.
…but, that aside, SSDs are also more reliable when the application is misbehaving. Last I checked, the GNOME guys’ idea to have the CSDs use some API to delegate event handling for certain regions (representing WM functions like move, resize, minimize/maximize/close, etc.) directly to the compositor was still just a hypothetical.
(And it’d be necessary if they want the whole “Wayland is part of sandboxing applications” thing when some of the functions I use in my titlebar include enabling features prone to abuse, such as “Always on top”.)
I’m a big fan and of XFCE; I use it on a daily basis. But I really dislike CSD. Lucky me:
gtk3-nocsd
gtk3-mushroom
People seem to skip this part.
Also, CSD is the norm outside of X.
https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/software/desktop-linux/1133756-xfce-4-16-to-drop-gtk2-support-explore-some-client-side-decorations?p=1133787#post1133787
As for UI/UX consistency and usability, that died 20 years ago when everyone was doing funky stuff in the name of differentiation.
Outside of X11, the OS provides a mature equivalent to Jonas Ådahl’s libdecoration to ensure that every application that wants to be on the same page *can* be on the same page.
Also, given that reliability is one of my arguments in favour of SSD and how readily I remember Windows XP’s titlebars becoming non-responsive when applications started seizing up, that’s not a strong argument in favour of them. In fact, I think that was one of the papercuts that led me to quit Windows cold-turkey back around 2002 and only start to get back into gaming as Linux-native games became more available.