Hyperion Entertainment is proud to announce the immediate release of update 2 for AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition. Update 2 is by far the largest update ever released for AmigaOS and includes more than 200 updated components with hundreds of bug fixes, improvements and new features and six completely new OS components. The update is the combined effort of four years of AmigaOS development and will bring AmigaOS4.1 Final Edition to a completely new level of stability and usability.
This seems like a very large bug-fix and stability release, but since AmigaOS 4 is so hard to find proper hardware for, it’s difficult to keep up with the state of the platform.
ACube did announce a new batch of Sam460cr boards that can run Amiga OS 4, but I doubt it will be many, and the pricing is, as with everything Amiga OS 4, not exactly cheap. I understand ACube is a small manufacturer, and I’m not at all saying they have much of a choice, but almost €500 to be able to run Amiga OS 4 is a lot to ask of newcomers.
Damn, I may have to buy one of these. It would cure my want of being able to run OS4, without trying to make sure it also works with OS 3.9. Will have to see if the update helps or not.
AmigaOS 4,1 Final Edition 2: A completely new level of stability and usability
It will make it to the chopper. – Guy Smith
It’s even more final now. – Someone somewhere
I really had a lot of dreams when I was a kid, and I think a great deal of that grew out of the fact that I had a chance to read a lot. – Bill Gates
That’s great. It’s not OS/2? – Someone’s SO
Is there any way to get a trial version? I’d love to test it on qemu
No, there is no trial version as far as I know.
Qemu would be useless anyways – the only working emulator is WinUAE with PPC support.
MorphOS works in qemu PPC, so I think AmigaOS too
http://zero.eik.bme.hu/~balaton/qemu/amiga/
At this point, I’m just waiting for MorphOS or AmigaOS 4 to be ported to ARM or x86.
I don’t think ACube is asking anything of newcomers. If you are a newcomer you get UAE and run it on your PC (or a PI, or whatever). At this point the few people who want hardware are the diehard.
And Hyperion could have ported to support aging PowerPC macs like MorphOS does if they wanted to expand the market. Not that that is a great answer either.
AmigaOS pigeon holed itself into big endian and never did anything to try and get out of it.
“4.1 Final Edition Update 2”
Even Microsoft wouldn’t make such a convoluted version name.
I don’t think 500 Euros it much for what is essentially a custom low-volume motherboard. It needs to be understood that the R&D budget for this motherboard will not be spread across hundreds of thousands of people.
What I think is missing is a laptop-style enclosure, so you don’t need to have an entire desktop taking up space for what is a niche distraction.
kurkosdr,
Yes IMHO this is similar to the problem ARM servers and desktops still being so niche. The price makes sense for custom/niche equipment that lacks scales of economy, but the high price is still a legitimate barrier to greater market adoption. It’s essentially a catch-22: the high prices keep users away, while low adoption keeps prices high. For better or worse this recurrent feedback loop has kept x86 at the front of desktop computing. More competition is needed to help bring costs down. I I’m cautiously optimistic for new x86 competition coming in the desktop & server space, but I’m concerned this competition may come in the form of highly restricted or difficult to support hardware :-/
Indeed, different form factors for different users & use cases, although amiga is such a tiny niche I would not have an optimistic outlook on the hardware situation improving. IMHO the best bet would be for it to be ported to cheap commodity hardware, but it’s unclear how many in the Amiga community would actually be supportive of it. Admittedly as an outsider, I don’t know how much this community is driven by ideology versus pragmatism.
https://wiki.amigaos.net/wiki/AmigaOS_Platforms
https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/4820/how-hard-would-it-be-to-port-amiga-os4-to-x86-or-arm
I actually like x86, because it keeps the PC architecture relevant. The PC architecture is one of those few architectures out there that define a standardized bootloader and a somewhat standardized set of peripherals (which are: SVGA for video, HDA or AC97 or SoundBlaster 16 for audio, and a handful of Wifi cards from Intel or Atheros or Realtek).
This means that no device-specific bootloader has to be backed into the image, which means OSes generally come in beautiful “generic” images, with no permission or license needed from the device manufacturer for any proprietary bits. You can boot an operating system image on a PC using nothing but “generic” code. Then once you have the computer powered on (and with SVGA graphics, woo!) you can go online and hunt for accelerated GPU drivers, if any (or if your OS is smart, it will do that for you, like Windows does).
Of course, you can have device-specific images (this is what recovery discs are), but you don’t have to.
I do find it weird that my freedom-loving Raspberry Pi3 won’t get Ubuntu Desktop, because the image is Raspberry Pi4 specific. Meanwhile, my Acer Aspire One netbook from 10 years ago runs Windows 8.1 Pro and is on track to receive Windows 10 in 2023. Both of them are useless on browsing the modern web, but I am making a point.
See, once you have a standard platform, like the PC, there is a strong disincentive for manufacturers to make an incompatible derivative that requires special bootloaders or special sound drivers, because their product immediately becomes more expensive to design. However, nobody has bothered to standardise the ARM boards or the RISC-V boards, so all those boards are “custom” and need special images.
So, let’s hope x86 (and the PC architecture) stays releavant, and pray daily to Lisa Su for good measure https://i.imgur.com/IkIoWnS.jpg
kurkosdr,
+1 for both posts.
This inability use ARM devices interchangably has been a huge con for open computing. Even something as basic as booting up android forks like LineageOS on an android phone should just work out of the box, yet it requires someone to develop custom images for every device. You can’t target ARM generically the way you can with x86 computers. This kills the viability of ARM for a lot of alt-os projects. Several years ago I thought these were merely growing pains and it would get better, but the longer this trend continues, the more I feel this is simply the norm that we have to put up with for ARM computers. The manufacturers haven’t shown any inclination to fix it.
Projects like Raspberry PI have done a commendable job bringing ARM to the FOSS masses, but you’re still stuck with specific devices and difficulty moving between vendors.
This youtube shows a Raspberry Pi 400 running PiMiga.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpnKrNEezZ4
According to this blog which goes into details you need to buy a copy of Amiga Forever to obtain the roms. Unfortunately they only go up to 3.x not 4.x?
http://www.amigablogs.net/feed/2020/04/pimiga-v12b-raspberry-pi-4b
It’s based on AmiBerry
https://blitterstudio.com/amiberry/
AmigaOS 4.x is PowerPC only. I am not aware of any Amiga Emulators that emulate powerpc to date
Maybe watch the video? The last time I checked ARM was not Powerpc.
PiMiga is a clever pre-config’d emulator image for RPI, which loads an amiga emulator immediately after launch. It is running on a Linux kernel. (I have it loaded on an image for my Pi 400 myself 🙂
The base Linux OS is ARM, and it emulates 68K Motorola CPUs. It may be able to emulate some exotic ppc accelerators if you dig through the settings. Hit F12 to get to the emulator GUI underneath.
PiMiga doesn’t use OS 4.1
Or, maybe research how AmigaOS runs on arm. Only AROS runs natively on x86 and ARM. On the Pi it is emulated.
Stop with the mansplaining. I never said this implementation was not emulated. Also your avatar looks like a perv on OK Cupid if you’re being picky about things.
I think it’s worth pointing out if it was emulated, it wasn’t clear from the thread and not everyone is familiar with it (including me). Is anyone here familiar enough with the community to comment on why they have not ported to x86 or ARM?
Anyways, while emulation is never ideal, it’s not all bad news. Even emulated, AmigaOS 3 probably performs better on a PI than on the original hardware it was built for. This is the case with DOS emulators. On the other hand sometimes the quality of emulation isn’t as good as the original, especially with sound and jitter. This might have a lot to do with the way DOS software was written (a lot of DOS software assumes it is the only software running and is not designed to handle time sharing operating systems smoothly).
@alfman
I accept the original post was unclear but all the information is contained in the links. The link on Amiberry gives this information right at the top in the first paragraph.
I’m not 100% clear on Amiga issues myself and tuned out before digging deeper.
I have no idea what performance and sync issues exist in this emulation. I know DOS emulators can have issues because some software relied on obscure hardware issues. There’s also issues with console emulation especially with sync issues between different hardware components. I think Dreamcast emulators finally resolved the major problems with this although it takes clever tricks or a disproportionate amount of CPU effort to do so. I have no idea where Playstation emulation is at with this.
@HollyB
You asked a question, I explained why. I provided additional information, I am sorry I came off as mansplaining, or for assuming you did or didn’t know it was emulated.
However you responded with:
Which deeply implies you thought it was running natively, and came off as rather hostile.
Finally I don’t appreciate the ad hominem attack on me, my picture, or my personal life. It shouldn’t be tolerated behavior
@jockm
Given I posted links going deeper into the guts of this software explaining what was doing the emulation I’m fairly clear that I knew it was emulating. You just dived in berating me for being an idiot without doing further reading even when I had done the research for you and it was on a plate. It also wasn’t the first time you jumped on me and I thought it best to draw a line before bad habits became too deeply ingrained.
I’m not a fan of stalky creeper avatars whether intentional or not and find them unpleasant and disturbing. As for what you get up to in your private life I don’t know or care so why you would manufacture this issue I don’t know. Please stick to the tech in future and follow through any links if you require clarification or explanation. Thank you!
@HollyB
It was still ad hominem, now matter how you slice it. And if you truly don’t care about my personal life you wouldn’t have brought it up.
And if you clearly knew it was emulation then my first response answered your question and was in no way hostile because all I said was:
I was only hostile to you after you were hostile to me, and for that I am sorry. You don’t seem to be for anything you have done, including borderline doxing me, for which I am livid
@jockm
I have no idea what you are talking about. I was simply commenting on the distrubing stalky creeper aesthetic of your avatar. I have no idea what other websites you do or do not frequent so all your outburst did is doxx yourself. I’m not mad keen on your new avatar either. Given the context of this discussion that skeleton looks provocatively dodgy.
@HollyB
I grabbed a random object from a shelf without looking, took a picture of it, and made it my gravatar. I spent no more than 30 seconds, and no thought. But believe what you wish, because clearly you are going to anyway
Omg Holly… omg. Just be quiet.
Holly: Unfortunately they only go up to 3.x not 4.x?
Responder: answers question clearly
Holly: Loses her shit for no reason.
PS. jockm’s “mainspaining” was him literally adopting the exact same tone and comment structure as the first rude message in the thread, which came from HollyB with no prompting or reason as best as I can tell.
As a gay person – I find people who pick unnecessary fights and then hide behind untrue claims of discrimination when they don’t like the response they get to be damaging to people who ACTUALLY suffer these kinds of things. Maybe HollyB has in her personal life – don’t know. This thread did not contain hostility until HollyB added it. Very disappointing.
In case anyone else lost it in the back and forth, this is where this dumb ass fight started for no reason
Calm question: Unfortunately they only go up to 3.x not 4.x?
Respectful answer: AmigaOS 4.x is PowerPC only. I am not aware of any Amiga Emulators that emulate powerpc to date
Rude, unnecessary response: Maybe watch the video? The last time I checked ARM was not Powerpc.
For anyone keeping score – the video didn’t show either PPC or 4.1 emulation 🙂
@rem200020
You missed Jockm picking on me in an earlier topic which I actually did explain. He went looking for a fight and didn’t like it when I snapped back plus if he had actually read what was said and the supplied links he may not have got his wires crossed. And yes I did think he had a creepy perv problem with his avatar before he went on to doxx himself. Cue jockm being “livid” and winding himself up into a state. Then he replaced this with an avatar like a cartoon Jason in Friday the 13th. Hardly emotionally on point or helpful, was it?
There’s really no need for you to dive in when this thread branch has deadended itself and cherrypick and shitstir. Just let it go. Who needs the drama?
Luckily, Google makes this easy to vet, and I am on holiday and very bored at home today. Jockm’s history shows that he didn’t post any comments engaging with you for weeks prior to this thread. Are you talking about a different site?
I presume you’re referring to the Risc-V article (the one that is deadended from 3 weeks ago, but that you’re still upset about??) I’m responding to a slightly longer than day-old post to be clear.
I see you getting very upset with seemingly no reason in that old thread too. Looks like there is a trend?
Shouting racism, sexism, homophobia, whatever when there is no evidence to support it is abhorrent.
@rem200020
Stop trolling and let it go.
@HollyB
I have only made one comment that was deliberately rude to you, ever, and I apologized for it. Whatever you are seeing is in your head. All I have tried to do is engage with the questions you are asking, and in the RISC-V thread you told me you were asking about something else I asked you politely to please explain what you were asking without techechnical terms that didn’t apply to the field the way you were using them… which you never did
Not technically a dedicated Amiga emulator. I believe both FS-UAE & WinUAE use it to emulate PPC.
http://zero.eik.bme.hu/~balaton/qemu/amiga/
I find static and dynamic binary translators intriguing. For better performance I wonder why this is not done more often or hybrid binary translator/emulators are not developed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_translation#Static_binary_translation
There’s also dynamic binary translation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_translation#Dynamic_binary_translation
There’s a deeper discussion on ARM and x86 binary translation suggesting why this kind of thing is not done but it doesn’t have to be all or nothing of the translation and emulation aspects are handled intelligently.
https://www.quora.com/Why-cant-we-build-x86-to-ARM-translation
I’m also guessing VMs or subsystems can be in the mix somewhere but this is getting messy.
HollyB,
I find that quora question to be a bit contrary because modern cross platform emulators do exactly that already and it’s nothing new. Binary translation has been used by qemu for a long time. One reads the instruction set for one instruction set and outputs native code for another. Apple and microsoft do it too using their respective emulators. When you don’t have the option of hardware virtualization, binary code translation is what most emulators do. Although without the source code, you loose information about the code’s intent, which hurts the emulator’s ability to optimize it. Technically CPU simulators exist too and theoretically can provide a perfect simulation of the original CPUs, this tends to have a lot of overhead.
As an aside, I think it would be very interesting if our general purpose computers had FPGA accelerators as it would give us a novel way to solve many problems including emulation since you could actually program a real CPU core into the FPGA fabric to run the code natively. Alas, general purpose computers don’t have this capability today, but maybe some day they might.
@alfman
I had this idea myself for a project which went nowhere. It’s only with recent discussion of FPGAs being used in systems I disovered others had the same idea earlier. I’m guessing inertia, NIH, and cost etcetera is holding things back. Myself I just saw the accelerator potential but now you mention it the idea of CPU emulation becomes obvious. I really like the point you made as it opens creative possibilities.
As things move on perhaps dynamic memory and storage effectively become interchangeable. Throw in FPGAs into this mix if it were possible and things get interesting. It’s a niche issue but specialist architecture can dramatically boost performance for narrow problems and when ASICs are thrown into the mix performance of some tasks can be improved by orders of magnitude. I’m just throwing all these things in the air to see how they land as a speculative handwave but I expect people with experience of relevant problem domains or the nitty gritty of the engineering might be able to carve an interesting pathway through this much like people back in the day who put the first microcomputers and workstations together.
WinUAE and FS-UAE have emulated PPC for years now.
That is awesome, thank you!
Do you know how the PPC emulation compares to the 68K emulation?
The steep price of the new hardware which can run this OS I had a scan of the compatibility list and all of this is old stuff. So you have a really expensive board to run the OS and all the hardware has been cleared out of most peoples junk drawer years ago. This doesn’t make sense to me.
http://www.acube-systems.biz/compatibility/compatibility_41.php
You realize this OS was written in the mid-80s for 68k machines with proprietary custom chipsets, right? PowerPC was the leap most 68k architectures went toward, including Macs. So lots of third party PPC accelerators existed for 68k machines. Lots of things got rewritten from 68k ask to ppc. The Amiga platform has been a deadend for ages. Even this “junk” as you put it is many many times faster than old Amiga hardware. The team is so small they are doing well just to keep this project limping along, much less support more modern hardware or swap architectures.
If it doesn’t make sense to you, you obviously never owned an Amiga and are obviously not the target audience for this niche platform. Go piddle about with Linux or something and have some BS wokester professional victim rants on their mailing lists instead.