The rumour, by way of The Information, claims senior Microsoft execs hope to seal a deal with Mozilla to make Bing the default search engine as soon as this year, as the browser’s existing big-bucks deal with Google is coming up for renewal.
Now, Firefox making a search engine switch isn’t new. Mozilla tested Microsoft’s Bing as Firefox’s default search engine back back in 2021; and those with longer memories may just remember a time when Yahoo! was the default search engine in select countries.
It’s a tough pill to swallow: Firefox, effectively the only serious browser not controlled by Google or Apple, exists by the grace of Google. Google pays Mozilla for being the default search engine in Firefox, and said deal makes up about 85% of Mozilla’s revenue. Replacing Google with Microsoft int his equation seems like a lateral move, at best.
Hopefully they get a long term commitment with significantly more money attached, since once they break up with Google it’ll be difficult to regain that revenue stream.
The smell of all those hundreds of millions of dollars ain’t bringing in the best and brightest. Would be funny if Mozilla ultimately became a SCO-like patent troll when Google dumps them.
Firefox wants Microsoft to ditch Google, switch to Gecko
Why ? it’s just the default. It’s one click. And likely something a user already clicked on something else by accident and changed it back to Google, so maybe even that means they won’t notice the default change.
Another low for Mozilla. Being associated with Microsoft in such way. Hopefully not.
That’s Mozilla’s biggest problem btw: As their market share slips and slips, their bargain power for the default search engine is reduced more and more. At this point, Google is paying them just in case they rebound, but if they don’t, they will stop paying. And so will Bing.
BTW it’s a shame a browser like Mozilla has so low market share. Most people have memories from before Quantum and they think current Firefox sucks. In reality, it’s a very good browser, and you can sync bookmarks without being forced to use your Gmail account (which then Chrome uses as your default account on all Google properties) and you can use Video DownloadHelper without restrictions. And you can rest assured ad blockers will never be blocked.
But that’s vendor lock-in for you. People want Chrome on the desktop because it syncs with their Chrome for Android.
The main question is: what is the added value of Firefox/Mozilla?
That is the key to their options for monetization, and hence continue developing a competitive browser.
Back in the day (way back, in 1990s), Netscape offered a tangible value: Much better browser than Internet Explorer; and they were able to sell with a shareware model (was it $20 a piece?). Today there is virtually zero market for a paid web browser.
Apple’s Safari, for example, can be funded by the rest of the operating system, since it has become an essential component.
(And I cannot blame any OS vendor not wanting to be beholden to a third party).
Microsoft’s Edge, and Google’s Chrome have the same benefits on respective OSes, but they can also bring additional revenue through personalized advertisement and other means.
That leaves the independent browsers without a major path to continued growth. Opera basically gave up (their fighting against collective progress of KHTML derived engines). Tor Browser is just a specialized version of Firefox (with duckduckgo as the main search engine), and Brave is trying to do their own thing with a very small market share. Any others are best footnotes in a wikipedia article…
I am pretty sure Firefox people are asking the same question, and trying to find an answer. But it is not clear to me what that could be today.
Answer: Being able to sync my bookmarks and history without Google data-mining my sizeable collection of porn bookmarks and history. Google already knows enough about me, they don’t need to know my porn habits too.
Have you ever wondered why Google forces you to use a Gmail account to sync Chrome (instead of simply requiring an e-mail address like Firefox does)? Or why when you use a Gmail account to sync, Chrome will make this account the default for every Google property you visit? It’s so that you are forced to use your “main” Gmail account instead of a secondary e-mail address.
Another added value is being able to save YouTube videos with Video DownloadHelper. I do it rarely (only when I think a video is about to be taken down or is really good), but when I need to do it, I need to do it. Google bans Chrome extensions from allowing YouTube downloads. And now that the cat is out of the bag and Google is happy to abuse its position as a browser vendor, it’s your warning to stay out of Chrome. Who knows, maybe adblockers are next.
The problem is, Mozilla is very bad at communicating those advantages. They have utterly failed to communicate how Google is abusing its position as a browser vendor and ad agency and content provider despite the fact it results in a worse user experience. Google is advertising Chrome left, right, and center, when there is probably an entire generation of kids by now that may not know Firefox is even a thing, much less how it doesn’t have Chrome’s artificial restrictions.
kurkosdr,
Maybe I did not phrase it well. Yes, of course Firefox has some value. But my concern is something marketable to the end users that will result in revenue.
(Currently they market themselves to search engine providers. Which puts a limit on their growth).
Yes, the points you touched are important for many tech enthusiasts, but we might need to discuss how much they make an impact on the average end user.
sukru,
Mozilla lives in the disconnect between being socially valuable and financially valuable.
In terms of social value, mozilla plays a truly invaluable role for diversity. I concede that average people don’t think in terms of diversity in their daily lives, but they are effected by the consequences of diversity failing to materialize.and the increasing power that monopolies have. In browsers this might take the form of more tracking, coercive walled gardens, less innovation, eliminating features like adblocking APIs, less emphasis on open standards, DRM that breaks alternatives, etc.
Alfman,
Then I think we can call this an example of “tragedy of commons”. Everyone* benefits from an open source, freely available browser and a rendering engine.
However there are not enough individuals that will sacrifice to keep it alive.
Even today, I am not sure we can play Netflix on Firefox on ARM Linux for example (checking… yes, maybe… with some hacks: https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=300021). If we become a monoculture, it will be even less likely to sidestep DRM restrictions in the future.
sukru,
I feel “sacrifice” is too strong a word with negative connotations that aren’t really deserved by firefox here. Many users have no trouble running firefox over another browser. It’s unlikely that 97% of the market is actively avoiding firefox. Sure a portion of them may be, but for the rest the choice has already been made for them by an OEM and that’s what they use. Mozilla themselves are paid about $500M to set the default search engine, the only reason bundled defaults are worth anything at all is because bundling works – the majority of users will not change default settings. TL;DR;: Don’t attribute to malice what can be explained by laziness, or something like that 🙂
One of microsoft’s punishments in their antitrust suit was that they could no longer tell OEMs what browser to bundle. So google can pay dell to have chrome bundled onto say the xps 13, but mozilla doesn’t have the cash needed in order to bundle firefox. Well the firefox market share has suffered accordingly.
I agree. I don’t see how mozilla gets the upper hand and grows it’s market share in this situation. Theoretically they could go to the OEMs, movie studios, etc with deals they simply couldn’t refuse, like advertising for their wares inside of firefox. This would curry favor with the OEMs, studios, etc. But at what cost to user interests?
Alfman,
By “sacrifice” I meant sacrificing time to contribute to these open source projects, not only being a consumer of them.
sukru,
Ah, then yes I did misread that, fair enough.
On that note though, do you feel any amount of source contributions would actually change the tide and get people to switch to firefox? I think mozilla is at the junction many developers face themselves at: it’s not a technical challenge, but a marketing one.
I believe Mozilla would do well at marketing against an equal or smaller fish, but they’re up against two monopolists, one being a titan of industry that specializes in advertising no less. I’m not trying to make excuses for mozilla, but the situation is really dire for mozilla and it’s not because they have such a bad product, it’s because the market forces favor giants. I am pessimistic about their long term prospects and feel that unless something drastically changes this calculus, the decline is irreversible.
“It’s a tough pill to swallow: Firefox, effectively the only serious browser not controlled by Google or Apple…”
I didn’t know Vivaldi and Brave were controlled by Google and Apple?
They’re Chromium skins. Google decides where Chromium goes.
Although all the chromium based browsers do have value, they’re to dependent on Google i.m.o to qualify as serious.
If they do I will drop Firefox as my second favorite web browser (second to Safari).
My theme is, “Microsoft NOWHERE!” and “Death to Microsoft” (not the people, just the company as a whole.
Sabon,
You could do that, but is dropping the last alternative browser really the way to protest MS? Mozilla would probably choose duck duck go based on values alone, but without cash mozilla won’t survive the decade. It might be better to protest microsoft by switching the search engine instead of dropping firefox completely. They are imperfect but I personally think we’ll be worse off if we loose them.
So you are blissfully ignorant about the fact that Firefox already comes with Bing built-in?
You wouldn’t even notice if they changed the default search engine for new installations. Firefox also allows deleting all of the search providers that come bundled in so you could get rid of Bing and MS if you actually cared.
The first huge red flag is that Microsoft is much more aggressive in pushing their shit browser than Google. There’s an indirect ad for Edge even on Bing’s FRONTPAGE.
Microsoft doesn’t want Firefox to change its default search engine to Bing in order to promote Bing, no, Microsoft wants Firefox users to ditch Firefox for Edge.
Many search terms also produce a massive Edge banner at the top of search results on Bing whereas Google doesn’t resort to this kind of manipulation.
This might be the final test to see whether Mozilla has become totally blinded by greed.