It’s been all over the news, so I can’t get around posting about it here: the year of the Linux desktop is finally here. According to the – admittedly, troublesome – figures from StatCounter, the market share of Linux on the desktop has reached 7.23%. Other publications do not count Chrome OS installations as part of the Linux share, but I think that’s nonsense – they’re both clearly Linux desktop operating systems, and should be added up.
In the end, it doesn’t really matter, and I’ve mostly stopped reporting on market share figures ages ago, as all they do is invite pointless flamewars and vitriol. Linux on the desktop is doing just fine, and received a major boost thanks to Valve’s Proton. We all have our desktop platform of choice, and each of those choices is valid.
Still, more than 7% on the desktop and like 90%+ on mobile is not bad for a project developed by a community.
ChromeOS being Linux is complete and utter nonsense. Linux is a kernel, it’s not an Operating System, all by itself its 100% useless. If you wanna count everything based on Linux, why not include Android and say that Linux has 50% market share? No? That obviously didn’t occur to you.
The vast majority of people out there think of Linux of a Linux distro, which neither ChromeOS, nor Android is. These two OS’es are tightly controlled by Google, sport real API/ABI long term compatibility and excellent QA/QC.
Linux distros on the other hand (sans RHEL and SLES – both server oriented distributions, so they don’t really count) don’t care about binary compatibility, have minimal QA/QC, and have major issues and regressions all the time.
Linux is where it’s always been, floundering around 1-2% mark. Used primarily by IT professionals, because Linux is horrible for mere mortals.
ChromeOS is linux mate. It’s running on top of debian or gentoo (I forgot which one they switched to. )
Artem S. Tashkinov,
As a as a kernel it is true that it has roughly half the market share on mobile. For whatever reason, we started calling the desktop environment linux in causal conversation and that stuck. Stallman was fond of pointing out it should be called GNU/linux to emphasize that linux is just the kernel and not the whole OS, but his distinction didn’t catch on. Context clues often give a good idea of whether people are talking about the kernel or desktop environment.
Why do you think chromeos and android aren’t distros? They are to me in the same sence that ubuntu, suse, or redhat are. Obviously they serve very different markets with different features and even restrictions, but still.the way in which the OS is built around a linux kernel is the same.
I really don’t know why your putting android on a plateau in terms of quality. There have been so many times I’ve needed to reboot android devices in order to clear memory leaks, fault conditions, recover crashed daemons, etc. Even to this day a reboot can sometimes help with android problems.. And I’ve experienced annoying functional regressions on android as well. While I don’t want to overstate it, I do want to make the point that your opinion that android has “excellent QA/QC” is not universally shared.
Obviously this depends on the tasks you are using it for. If you just need to do web and email, linux desktops work great for that. Desktop linux lacks commercial software support, people who expect to use their windows software will likely run into trouble on linux desktop distros (including chromeos). Gaming has improved significantly on linux desktops in recent years thanks to steam. Though compatibility with the full windows game catalog is naturally not as good as windows.
If Android and ChromeOS are regular Linux distros, then
1) Why can’t I run regular Linux software on them (aside from certain stuff like some console utilities)?
2) Why don’t they use GRUB/LILO/systemd?
3) Can I easily replace their components (sans LineageOS but we are talking about regular Android ROMs)?
4) Can I _easily_ hack them? Get root?
5) Can I compile software for them?
6) Can I replace them with other Linux … distros?
7) Can I easily replace/hack/patch/update their … Linux kernels?
Seven hard no’s are the answers for these questions. These are not Linux distros and never have been. People who’s been peddling this falsehood just want to inflate numbers and Linux significance in this world.
Please do not post a wall of text how it’s all theoretically possible. I’m asking about your grandma. Can she? No? Then stop lying to yourself.
Speaking of Android. No idea what issues you’re talking about but I’ve had nothing of what you described since at least Android 6.0. I’ve not rebooted my Android devices or seen any crashes or memory leaks since 2017 or something. Maybe it’s down to using Google and OnePlus devices.
I can imagine that some obscure Chinese Android ROMs are less than stellar in terms of quality. I’ve not been talking about them. You can always make crap of something good if you’re determined enough.
I agree. A “desktop” is defined by its applications.
Artem S. Tashkinov,
Most of your questions should be answered by clarifying that by “linux”, I am referring to the kernel and not the user space. Did you know that you can actually install and run a debian environment on android? Once you install the userspace libraries you can run a lot of software from other distros on the very same linux kernel that android runs.
Android and ChromeOS are not alone in being linux distros that don’t run your so-called “regular linux software”. Consider all the linux routers and NAS distros that only come with primitive console tools, just like android. The reason these linux distros get stripped down to the essentials (ie the linux kernel) is because they don’t intend to run normal desktop software at all. They cut out userspace baggage they’re not going to use.
That is arbitrary…. My linux distro doesn’t use any of those either, 🙂
Raspberry PI doesn’t use Grub or lilo yet runs a full blown desktop OS.
Generally what makes android devices hard to work on compared to x86 desktops is proprietary hardware & drivers, vendor locking and ARM’s lack of standardization, etc. But these are characteristics of the underlying hardware, not of the OS. You can run android on an x86 desktop and even run it under grub if you wanted to…
https://www.xda-developers.com/android-12l-x86-pc-bliss-os/
If someone took centos and locked it down, does it cease to be a linux distro? No, it’s still a linux distro even if the owner doesn’t have control. In fact some linux appliances do exactly that. The vendor takes a standard linux distro like centos and locks it down so the customer doesn’t have root or easy access to it. It’s still a linux distro even when the customer doesn’t have the key.
Sure, why not? You can cross compile or install the exact same build tools you’d use on any other linux distro. I’ve done this on android and it works, but naturally the userspace libraries and environment are completely different. But yes you can stick to standard C primitives and syscalls and you can absolutely compile your own software for android.
Or they are linux distros, only with different userspace environments.
What? That makes no sense at all. The fact of the matter, not my opinion, is that linux is a kernel. And as a kernel, it’s appropriate to include operating systems that use linux including android in it’s market share. Now I can understand there is some confusion stemming from “linux” being thrown around as a generic term for an OS rather than a kernel. And there is nothing wrong with talking about desktop linux distros rather than the kernel. But once someone specifically clarifies they are talking about the kernel, which is the semantically correct use of “linux”, then there is no room for misinterpretation. It factually includes android and by denying this you are the one who is peddling falsehoods to deflate linux numbers, not because the numbers are wrong, but because you dislike the facts.
I’ve had these problems on google pixel phones, but it’s probably highly dependent on local factors such as the software you are running.
@ Artem S. Tashkinov
Tell me you don’t know ChromeOS without telling me you don’t know ChromeOS
I’ll try to answer as best as I can, even though tanishaj and Alfman already gave good points.
1) Why can’t I run regular Linux software on them (aside from certain stuff like some console utilities)?
Who said you cannot? It is possible to run arbitrary Linux programs, including development tools, office suites, or even games on Chrome OS (using containers):
https://chromeos.dev/en/linux
2) Why don’t they use GRUB/LILO/systemd?
Answered well by Alfman,
3) Can I easily replace their components (sans LineageOS but we are talking about regular Android ROMs)?
Same.
4) Can I _easily_ hack them? Get root?
You can get root:
https://beebom.com/how-to-enable-developer-mode-on-chrome-os-to-get-root-access/
5) Can I compile software for them?
See (1), and also Microsoft’s vscode tutorial:
https://code.visualstudio.com/blogs/2020/12/03/chromebook-get-started
6) Can I replace them with other Linux … distros?
Yes, but then it is another distro, right? This is akin to asking “whether I can replace Debian with CentOS”.
7) Can I easily replace/hack/patch/update their … Linux kernels?
I don’t think this is a requirement for a Linux distro. There are many platforms (like Amazon AWS) which won’t allow you to do that, or only in limited conditions.
> If you wanna count everything based on Linux, why not include Android and say that Linux has 50% market share?
Because Android on Desktop is very very rare.
But Thom does say “90%+ on mobile” which I am assuming is including Android (though I’ve not seen estimates of Android penetration quite that high, 75%-85% globally is more common)
ChromeOS has a somewhat “decent” (for what it is) showing in the desktop, specially since it’s being adopted by certain organizations. And it is linux underneath all the google experience, and accessible if you want it.
Yes both Chrome OS and Android are Linux and as Chrome OS is a desktop oriented operating system it is correct to say it contributes to Linux on desktop market share percentage. On mobile it is hence correct to say Linux currently holds two thirds of market share. If you want to nitpick but majority of people won’t even understand what i will say next. GNU/Linux market share on desktop and on mobile is still problematic. This should improve in the future. But i get it. Most of the people don’t even understand what i just said. Hence likely it will still take a while. For such values and being picky about them. To reemerge in the future. Currently most people couldn’t care less. But still they use Linux. In the percentage mentioned above. So that in the end is something too.
I get it, and yes, these numbers reek of Steam Deck interference, just like how Steam Boxes temporarily increased Linux market share, but inevitably it went back down after those died out. You still can’t do actual work like anything with a programming IDE on mobile OSes, so Android and Chrome are cop outs so the community can still gaslight themselves into saying “desktop Linux is good enough.* Just like Steam Boxes, the fundamental problems with Linux weren’t ever fixed, and the market share will sink again after Steam Decks popularity fades and Windows based alternatives like ROG Ally take hold. The community hates hearing such facts and will go straight into denial and attack mode again upon hearing them.
dark2,
Oh the hypocrisy. It’s always the same with linux haters, always making excuses and going straight into denial and attack mode over and over again. The truth is the vast majority of linux users are just pragmatic and using what’s best for themselves. Most of us on the whole are not evangelical in the least, yet we’re constantly accused of this.
Personally, I don’t care what people use, it’s the evangelism and the better than thou attitude that I find petty regardless of which side it is coming from. It’s always the same “your OS sucks and so do your users” nonsense. Just stop it. People can prefer and use whatever they want. Why do you care so much what others use to the point where you feel the need to deny their platform has merit to them? You are entitled to have a difference of opinion, that’s fine. Sometimes I’ll disagree with some linux users, but it’s ironic as hell for you to accuse the entire linux community of gaslighting when your the one painting us in false generalizations. You keep doing this as though you have some kind of vendetta against linux as a whole. Step back and realize that in actuality we have diverse preferences and opinions and that most linux users are not the mindless evangelicals that your stereotypes portray us as.
They won’t, because OEMs like Asus need to sell the thing at a profit while Valve can afford to sell it at BoM prices and make money on games sold. It’s the reason why all those Windows “Steam Deck killers” are either streaming-focused or cost so much that make people turn away.
Another problem is that Windows is not optimized for the form factor and none of those OEMs have the ability to fix that (these are the same OEMs that can’t design a LED lighting application that isn’t complete garbage). And then there is the issue they can’t optimize Steam for the form factor either (Valve can do that for Steam OS).
@dark2
Actually it’s the other way around. Apple users live in their own world and don’t bother with such things. Windows users are the ones that can’t really accept Linux took over. In lets say last decade or so. Ever since it became clear Windows Mobile as a project has no real future. That was the point when i first noticed Windows users saying things you just said. And a decade latter still in denial.
@dark2
You can actually develop on ChromeOS.
I am fascinated by all the arbitrary definitions a few people are coming up about what makes a desktop. I recon most windows users do ZERO development work on them, and yet they’re still considered desktops. Weird.
People who use Android and ChromeOS do not technically use Linux and do not care if it’s Linux. And they are lucky because Linux in general is (a) just crap (OS).
Tomorrow Google could replace the Linux kernel with Zircon and do you believe anyone would care or notice? No one except raging Linux fans.
And this has already happened for certain Google devices (Google Nest Hub). LOL. So much for Linux.
Technically most people today does use Linux. Even the die hard opponents. Just look around your house and you will almost certainly find a device running on Linux. Or maybe it’s running your car … If you would really try hard to not own a Linux device. Then you would likely still use Linux indirectly. By using the web. So Linux usage today is something you really can’t avoid. A lot of it still being GNU/Linux. But i agree with you that most people don’t care. So if Linux is crap alternatives are likely worse. As for replacing GNU/Linux and Linux with something else. Good luck with that. Not in foreseeable future.
Replacing a Linux kernel underneath a system like ChromeOS, or Android, or the Nest OS is easy and most of its end users would never notice or need to know. I think this illustrates that ChromeOS is not a “Linux Desktop” really well.
Replacing the Linux kernel in the Linux Desktop or Linux Server space would be a lot harder because even the capabilities of the kernel extend much further into the ecosystem. Flatpak, Podman, Docker, and Kubernetes all depend specifically on the Linux kernel. Systemd is quite tied into the Linux kernel. Wayland is even quite closely tied to Linux today and graphics drivers leverage the kernel infrastructure tremendously.
I mean, much of what constitutes the “Linux Desktop” is really not Linux as Linux is just the most popular Open Source POSIX desktop. But the “Linux Desktop” is more than just POSIX. A laptop maker could easily put FreeBSD on their hardware for example along with a nice package manager or app store and provide an experience which is fully equivalent to the “Linux Desktop” to a normal desktop user. Even things like Steam can work well with the right drivers. The lack of “desktop” maturity will show in all the Linux alternatives though and often it is only through Linux compatibility layers that “desktop” or “gaming” stuff will work.
My problem with GNU / Linux is that it is not a very accurate or complete description of what gets added to the Linux kernel to create the “Linux Operating System” or the “Linux Desktop”. There is more code in KDE and Xorg than in all of GNU combined. Most distros use Glibc but not all of them do. Most distros use GNU Coreutils but not all of them do. Most distros use GCC but not all of them do. Something like Chimera Linux is certainly not GNU / Linux but it certainly is a “Linux Desktop”. GNU is not an essential component of the “Linux Operating System” or the “Linux Desktop”.
tanishaj,
It is literally a linux desktop. Obviously the userspace is very different than one with GNU tools and shells, but the semantically accurate meaning of linux is that it is just the kernel, not the whole OS.
You could build an android system on a different kernel, but with respect to android today, the kernels are in fact linux. Even if it doesn’t run the normal desktop userspace tools, it still runs linux nevertheless, which by definition means the kernel.
@ Artem S. Tashkinov
If your argument requires alternative future timelines to make sense, maybe you should reconsider it’s validity.
Guys, do not feed the birdie.
I’ve seen this a lot of times: Linux fans running out of arguments, living in a fantasy world of Linux being the most used OS in the world and then making it personal. LOL.
Tell me honestly, why are you making Linux your religion? Does it make you or the world a better place?
I can admit I use Windows 10 for gaming, not a big deal – a wonderful OS for that. Outside of gaming I spend 100% of my time in Fedora Linux or Android. But I don’t peddle either of them because I’ve got critical thinking and I’ve been around far too long to be love with something so imperfect.
Artem S. Tashkinov,
Except nobody here did that. If you think the facts are wrong, then cite a better source and correct them. If you have a problem with facts themselves, well what can I say. You win some and you loose some. Just like linux fans have had to accept linux being marginalized on desktop, linux haters must accept linux dominance on mobile. You don’t like it? Well tough, but that’s life. It doesn’t matter though, there’s a hell of a lot more to computing than vanity and popularity contests.
I’m sorry, what? I replied to the post with zero facts or valid arguments. It was a pure example of a thought-terminating cliché and you’re telling me to behave despite my earlier comments being choke full or arguments? The f-k??
Sorry, I’m getting out of this conversation. That’s simply abhorrent.
Artem S. Tashkinov,
Arguments are fine. But sometimes you rely on heavy handed stereotypes and generalizations that aren’t justified by your arguments and come off as being a troll whether you intended this or not. To the extent that you are not trolling, then just try and realize that linux users are not the enemy, we’re just using what works for us. Everyone has different preferences though and I think that’s ok. Most of us want to be respectful of other choices but this respect needs to be mutual.
The problem with including Chromebook in your Linux desktop stats is people don’t generally have the choice to not use it. A lot of that “market share” is from students who were issued Chromebooks, so it’s totally irrelevant.
What percentage of Windows desktops do you think were provided to people that had no choice to use it or not? The only Windows machine I regularly use is one I got from work and I am not supposed to modify it.
Counting Chromebooks issued to students seems fine to me. If it was not ChromeOS, it would be something else. That is all we are measuring here.
There’s a big difference though. If Linux is preinstalled on a PC for retail sale (I.E. as a cheap student option in Brazil’s market), it will get replaced by pirated Windows. Chromebooks are provided because the administration wants to save money by not hiring an active directory manager or pay for Windows licensing fees. Claiming Chromebook market share is a victory while giving students fond memories of Linux being that cheap piece of garbage the school lent them isn’t a victory.
dark2,
You are right that when it comes to schools/employers/etc the choice is typically made by the departments and not individual users. I suppose it depends what you are trying to measure. Market share generally counts the number of instances bought & deployed without regards to what students/employees would have preferred.
You’ve brought up an interesting point and I am curious just how much of a gap exists between owner choices versus user preferences. Although a big reason for organizations not to give users a choice is basic standardization. It’s a lot easier to support one unified platform regardless of any merits on other platforms.
In my view, the correct way to define desktop market share is by the applications that desktop will run.
Windows and MacOS are easy by any definition but Linux gets a lot harder as it invites the question of if every system using a Linux kernel is a Linux Desktop or not. There is lots of that debate here already.
In that vein, the Linux Desktop and ChromeOS are not the same thing. None of my desktop Linux systems will run ChromeOS applications. Out of the box, ChromeOS does not run the applications one would expect to run on a Linux Desktop.
You can make Linux applications work on ChromeOS but it is not the native experience. Even though the Linux kernel is there, it is not much different than running Android applications on Windows or Linux applications on FreeBSD.
Whether something runs “out of the box” on Linux is not a useful metric, since almost nothing from another platform will run out of the box on Linux, but it’s also not usually very hard to make it (and that goes for running KDE apps on ChromeOS, or ChromeOS apps on Gnome).
The problem is really just one of definitions. These are a few: kernel (Linux), system layer (this can be categorized multiple ways – but basically, GNU), DE (desktop environments, arguably aka platform – KDE, Gnome, or defined by it’s API label – Chrome and Android are mostly DEs, with some standardization around the lower layers.) Then you get in to app packages, managers and distribution channels, and all that (appimage, snap, apt, etc.).
Anyway, I agree 100% that it’s inappropriate to call Linux an operating system – it’s a kernel. GNU Linux is more like an OS, in old school terms, but if we are really getting in to it, a Linux distro is the thing that is most comparable to something like Windows, macOS(and it’s siblings, iOS/iPadOS/etc.), ChromeOS, Android, etc. So, Unbuntu is an operating system, as would be understood by a Windows user, or Kubuntu, Debian, Red Hat, Arch Linux, etc. These are what most would understand to be operating systems, and just like any operating system, they don’t run each other’s apps “out of the box”. You have to do some fiddling to get most of them to run each others apps – but they can all run each other apps, in various ways. Operating systems based on Linux (distros), can even run Windows apps without much effort, just not mostly out of the box (unless its that OS’s purpose to do so, like how Steam OS mostly runs Windows app – inarguably, a Linux based operating system).
I really believe one of the things that’s held back Linux on the desktop is just that – people referring to Linux as an alternative to Windows. It has never been that, at least not on its own. Ubuntu is an alternative to Linux, and the rest. Linux enables that, but is just a kernel.
Example, one youtube channel I like is Linus Tech Tips, and they recently did a “Linux Challenge” – but they ran 2 different operating systems, one went with some flavor of something running Gnome, and the other, after failing to get Pop!_OS running, went with something KDE based (which is MUCH harder to use for beginners.) In a single challenged, they used 2 entirely different platforms. That’s not a fair challenge.
On the other hand, the norms of the communities that use Linux are just not like Windows. Linux is WAY more powerful, WAY more configurable, and when you do put in the work, you get to own the product of your work. For this reason, I’ll never understand why there are so many people still trying to improve a pile of junk like Windows, when they could just use something based on Linux, and make a difference that might even be appreciated by someone. Why do people cling to Windows so tightly? It’s junk. It’s always been junk.
CaptainN-,
That’s exactly right. People may be using “linux”as a generic term, but technically it’s just the kernel and not the whole OS. Linux has a very large market share when it comes to phones, cameras, embedded electronics, and so on. Some people seem to get offended by the notion that linux is successful in some markets, but I don’t see why it should bother anyone.
I’ve also migrated to desktop linux distros for my personal computers, but I don’t judge people who stay on windows. Whatever floats their boats is cool by me so long as there’s no coercion or monopoly manipulation in play. Unfortunately many computer buyers are still force to buy windows licenses they don’t want or need and I for one am disappointed this practice wasn’t outlawed decades ago.
The real news here is that a significant number of people switched from Windows to Unknown in March and then switched from Unknown back to Windows in June; and that (even if you ignore the temporary surge) Unknown has been consistently kicking Linux’s butt for years.
Brendan,
+1, that got a chuckle from me 🙂
I’ll have to agree with others here that neither ChromeOS or Android are Linux distributions. They use the Linux kernel as a drop-in replacement for whenever the Fuschia kernel is ready, and that’s about it. Google doesn’t even use GNU utils, they use busy/toybox! The Linux kernel at this point has been commoditized, used in anything and everything. But not everything is a “desktop GNU/Linux distribution”.
Regarding the desktop Linux stats: it depends on the country. Linux has a very small market share in the US, where people prefer to buy Macs, but much bigger market share in third world countries and lower European countries (like my own, Greece, having up to 8%). Basically, Linux in these countries is the “alternative” to Windows, while in the US that is the Mac.
Here is a name I’ve not seen in some time. Hi Eugenia! 😀
The mental Gymastics some people are coming up to make a desktop running Linux not being a desktop running Linux are fascinating. Very entertaining.
Is the XBOX a Windows Desktop? I mean, it runs the Windows kernel right?
Especially when it actually runs a regular Linux desktop (Debian):
https://chromeos.dev/en/linux
When I saw this article I could feel a “here we go again” coming on. I was right.
If anything these articles end up with enough comments to make the “top 10” articles at the end of the year. Year after year. When it’s a slow tech news day, you can’t go wrong with a headline like that.
WWIW, the article says “desktop linux”. Desktop linux to me is a Window Manager or DE running atop of GNU/Linux or Other/Linux. Not a web browser on Linux. Not a phone/tablet interface on Linux. Not a command line on Linux.