Microsoft appears to be in a state of panic, ordering 60 per cent of its new operating system to be re-written amidst a major shake-up of its troubled Windows division. According to a Volish denizen speaking to smarthouse.com, orders have come down from on high to rewrite more than 60 per cent of the consumer version of Vista in a bid to get it ready for the 2007 CES show in Las Vegas.
More Than Half of Vista Needs Re-Writing
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2006-03-24 6:16 pmcg0def
you were seriously looking forward to buy a new OS that requires you to double up all existing ram and possibly upgrade everything else in order to get the same speed/performance that XP offers today ? Wow didn’t know that MS brainwashing was THAT effective.
All jokes aside, I think this is all BS and MS is trying to buy more time. If it isn’t then it basicaly means that the Windows Vista code is pretty much compleate crap which is not true. I might not agree with many of design decisions of MS but the OS is far from being crap and there is no way that 60% of it need to be rewritten in order to get media center integrated. After all Media Center for XP is and addon that works much like any other program.
2006-03-24 6:19 pmDelboy
I agree cg0def. There are general performance issues too and they are buying some time. I suspect the Media Centre stuff is also true but its a good excuse 😉
While I could get a good laugh out of this if it were true, I doubt it is. I don’t think they could rewrite 60% of it in the next 9 months, then test and ship.
A couple years ago, or maybe it was just one, when they actually did this, it was more believable.
2006-03-25 2:23 amantwarrior
And you’re right , it is too funny to be true. Read the latest post on the issue
I dont think you can rewrite 60% IN a few months so i dont think thats true: i think this may be about scheduling and bug fixes etc, maybe even multimedia stuff as xbox programmers are being added to the visa team..
About 6 months ago we were told, and this was confirmed, that the original code-base for Longhorn had reached a state where it was no longer logistically feasible to bring all elements of the project together as one operating system. The wholesale change was just too ambitious. So they reset the project, salvaged what they could and began work using the Windows 2003 server kernel and building on that.
Now, we’re being told that “60%” of that is going to be re-written, again.
I don’t agree, or really think its possible that that is the case. It’s simply too much to redo.
I’ll be interested to see if there is any official confirmation of this situation. If true, which I doubt it is, it is yet another blow for MS in its time-to-market against MacOSX and the upcoming Linux desktop.
2006-03-24 5:00 pmhappycamper
what upcoming linux desktop. the liunx desktop has been coming for the last 5 yrs or so and it’s not here yet. if this problem is true and puts vista behind it will still get release before linux ever shines in the desktop.
2006-03-24 5:19 pmraver31
Linux works sweet for MY desktop.
Linux works sweet for other peoples desktop.
Maybe it is not for you. So what ?
I have beta tested Vista, and Windows is playing catch-up with Linux in the desktop arena.
You are living in a time-warp man, get up to date.
2006-03-24 5:40 pmhappycamper
funny, but what difference does that make? when statistics shows windows are installed in 90% of the desktop.
2006-03-24 5:43 pmraver31
like I said, you are in a time warp,
that 90% figure is a couple of years old
show us an up to date figure
and, while you are at it, give me a good reason to move from XP to Vista… honestly
2006-03-24 5:48 pmDelboy
This Market share stuff is a moot point. MS is well know to count every copy shipped even if its gathering dust on an PC unsold in a shop for instance.
Plus its difficult to quantify Linux/BSD install base as they dont come preinstalled etc.
Its no where near as clean cut as is often inferred and I include ALL OS vendors in this.
Bottom line you can make Statitics say whatever you like :-))
Edited 2006-03-24 17:51
2006-03-24 8:17 pmLinuxHawk
Same here… Linux has not only just worked for me in the last few years, it has been ahead of the game in most areas in the computing world. With the KDE desktop, it has been as simple as Windows and advanced as Mac with the stability of Unix.
Building PC’s on the side, (about 1 Windows PC for every 4 Linux PC’s) I have only had 1 issue with a Linux OS as opposed to dozens of issues with the few Windows PC’s I have built. The issue turned out to be a defective hard drive, so it was not Linux at all.
I also run XP, when I have to,(some sites still are catering to only Windows with their online forms) and hate it.
2006-03-24 6:24 pmcg0def
Ok first of all Linux was never intended to be a desktop OS but rather a Unix replacement that people can use at home. Of course many things have changed since then … anyway as far as being ready for the desktop goes Linux based distros have been ready for about 5 years now only there was always a problem with drivers and hardware manufacturers and other crap like that. In order to solve problems like driver support you actually need corporate backing and it kinda lacks in the Linux community. Only this is not true anymore because there are companies like Novell and Canonical determined to win. Novell is not in the Linux game just to make a few bucks and I can guarantee you that very soon they will have OEM backing.
So dude I really don’t see how the hell Vista is going to come out before NDL 10. Yes Novell is a lot smaller company but it has vastly better reputation in corporate IT circles that MS does.
2006-03-24 6:51 pmthecwin
“liunx desktop has been coming for the last 5 yrs”
So has Windows Longhorn/Vista..
2006-03-24 8:03 pmhistoryb
Appearently you’ve never heard of PCLinuxOS which is more than ready.
2006-03-24 5:46 pmsappyvcv
Actually, the reset was in summer of 2004 (http://blogs.msdn.com/timbrookins/archive/2004/09/20/231819.aspx).
That’s a biiit more than 6 months ago.
Anyway, this is irresponsible journalism (not by OSnews, but by theinquirer). Isn’t the original source of this information from a mac site anyway? Ugh.
Edited 2006-03-24 17:50
2006-03-24 5:59 pmDelboy
Yes they decided to start again and use the Windows 2003 Kernel Codebase. Shortly after all much quoted features like WinFS started to be stripped out to try and hit a late 2005 release if I remember correctly.
I wouldnt call it irresponsible Jorunalism, Just misguided and what does it matter if it came from a Mac site ?
Edited 2006-03-24 18:00
2006-03-24 7:38 pmsappyvcv
If paul thurrott posted negative news about apple, would you trust him?
2006-03-24 6:01 pmApproachingZero
No it’s not from a mac site, but a mac site did link to it.
And as for everybody saying “there’s no way they’ll do all of this by January, this must be false”, can you wrap your heads around the idea that maybe the “January” release date is false? There’s certainly more than enough precedent for it. I can’t believe how every time MS sets a release date for Longhorn or Vista, so many people believe them wholeheartedly after being lied to over and over again. People who do are like the girlfriend of an abusive alcoholic. “He said he’s going to stop drinking and stop hitting me, and he means it this time!”
2006-03-24 10:58 pmma_d
Irresponsibly journalism by theinquirer? Do they do responsible journalism?
Anyway, I do believe the article is actually from: http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Computing/Platforms?Article=/Computing…
TMK, Theinquirer just reposts stories. Much like OSN, except Theinquirer probably makes money.
This is obvious BS.
every company had a lemon product moment of some sort like GM with the chevy vega ,etc. now it’s time for MS to have thier lemon product moment.
2006-03-24 5:08 pmJacobMunoz
Please don’t tell me you think this is their first lemon….
2006-03-24 5:16 pmhappycamper
Yes, Millennium worked for me without problems and at least it was released. vista may never see shine of the day
2006-03-24 9:19 pmDigitalAxis
…or Microsoft Bob?
For Novell to start shipping NLD 10 and putting the pressure on Microsoft. A company with over 80% of the market and they still buckle under the pressure. Thats all right Windows users are used to a old OS with old reused code.
I’d like to sit back and enjoy the rot, but I guess Windows users are sheep.
2006-03-25 6:24 pmthe__dude
I’d like to sit back and enjoy the rot, but I guess Windows users are sheep.
Or maybe Windows is the right tool for the job for many users.
Some features being pulled from Vista did not fill me with confidence. If this is true they will need to delay further if its to be as secure as thet say it will be.
You can’t rewrite 60% of such a large release OS in such a short time. This must be false news.
2006-03-24 5:07 pmTyr.
You can’t rewrite 60% of such a large release OS in such a short time. This must be false news.
Maybe it’s 60% of the new Vista additions over XP, that would greatly reduce the codebase. Or maybe you just don’t have that Microsoft “can-do spirit” 😉
2006-03-24 6:28 pmcg0def
if I remember correctly, arround the time windows 2k was released the OS was supposed to be over 2 mil. lines of code. Add all the code for XP plus 2 SPs and all the new Vista code and 60% seems like a heck of a lot of code.
But like I said I don’t really believe this news to be true. After all MS FUD has been great in the past …
2006-03-24 6:34 pmDelboy
The code base for W2k was reputedly somewhere in the region of 20Million+ lines.
The difference between Apple and microsoft. When Apple finally got it through their heads there was no more improving the lemon they were stuck with, they just bought a juicy new orange. Microsoft just keeps trying to make lemonade but sometimes your fruit is just rotten.
I hereby like to nominate myself for most useless metafor on OSNews.
2006-03-24 5:22 pmraver31
you have my vote !
2006-03-24 6:41 pmTaterSalad
Vista – The OS that may never happen.
Delay after delay after delay.
I think there is a good chance of blackcomb being released before vista.
Why doesn’t MS just concentrate of getting blackcomb ready and forget about vista?
If they don’t, I predict blackcomb will be released sometime around 2020.
Truly sad for the MS sheep.
But what do I care? I actually don’t care about vista. Linux is my OS. Vista is just an amussing distraction to me, hehe.
And vista is just semi-free advertising for MS, bad advertising, yes, but advertising all the same.
2006-03-24 5:18 pmJacobMunoz
I remember that name … ‘blackcomb’.. what was that supposed to be anyways?
I’ve got my whole Win world all mixed-up (just like MS does)..
Am I correct in assuming Longhorn = Vista? – or was it XP?
And at this point, everyone who is saying ‘Vista will be able to do ___, and ___, etc’ simply have NO basis for saying so. It simply doesn’t exist – and developer & beta releases don’t mean a thing regarding what a product will ACTUALLY be. I’ve heard so many Microsoft minions talk about what Vista’s features ARE – it makes me nauseated.
They should abort this whole thing and start porting the WinFX API to Linux – now THAT would be a product everyone would like (until they bastardized Linux into THEIR product)…
…OK, so I should take that back. Microsoft, DONT port to Linux – it’s just too stable for your products.
2006-03-24 5:48 pmsappyvcv
Um.. ok.. then you can’t talk about Compiz, XGL or any upcoming OSX LEopard features I mean afterall, it’s not *OUT* and final yet, right?
2006-03-24 6:20 pmJacobMunoz
Good point, I should correct myself:
“It simply doesn’t exist – and developer & beta releases don’t mean a thing regarding what a Microsoft product will ACTUALLY be.”
And you’re right again, I try not to assume anything about the features of Compiz (what is that?), XGL, or OSX Leopard. I’d rather wait until I get my hands on it for a critique – or for official announcements for the developers themselves (which is what the Vista team is blogging about)
2006-03-24 10:34 pmbyrc
Dude, you totally make linux users look bad…
This news could be true, and who knows what part of it is being re-written. I am sure it is an exxageration, but I would not be surprised if there is a major thing going on right now.
but seriously, people need to stop being so hard to on MS. Meeting a deadline on such a massive project such as Vista can not be easy, and deadlines always shift. Where is the next Ubuntu? Oh look its deadline shifted. Chill out.
Now start flaming!!! *rolls eyes*
Looking to me like the home user editions for Vista as this rate are likely to be as unstable/broken as Millenium was on release. Not good atall !
Write code from scratch is easy if they have done a good software engineering work.
Maybe they just need to write a more polished code, not redo SE again.
This would be feasible (maybe).
Anyway, i think this news is fake.
Not a happy group of people.
As they are specifically talking about 60% of the code in CONSUMER versions of Vista need a rewrite Im pretty sure they mean 60% of the code specific to those SKUs. So its all the Media Center Stuff etc.
Hence moving XBox guys over to sort it out etc 🙂
Edited 2006-03-24 17:35
From my understanding, it’s 60% of the media Center code that will be re-written, not 60% of the entire project.
I don’t think it really matterts anyway. I mean, for most people, Vista is going to require the purchase of a new PC anyway, so a slip into 2007 isn’t going to hurt much. Sure, They’ll miss the holiday season, but they were going to miss the start of the school year anyway, so it’s not that big. Besides, OEM sales are what drives MS, not the guy mad over the fact he can’t go to Best Buy and pik up a copy. I say, take as long as you need to get it right, because XP isn’t exactly useless.
2006-03-24 5:42 pmDelboy
Yeap arround 85% of Windows Copies sold in the comsumer space are OEM sourced from what Ive read .
2006-03-24 6:06 pmraver31
what everyone seems to have missed is a blatant way for Microsoft to get more money off its customers… Let me explain.
Vista is delayed until after xmas, so all those people wanting new machines are going to buy computers with XP installed. Microsoft gets the cash from the OEM for that.
After Xmas, Vista gets released, and loads of those new users go out and buy Vista, (Microsoft hopes).
So basically, Microsoft can get two paydays.
How did no-one spot that ?
2006-03-24 6:12 pmYogurth
Actually this can hurt them quite a bit. If these informations are true You can expect
shares drop, nervous shareholders >>> pressure >>> restructuring>>>fireing of staff both menagement and coding >>> further Vista delay >>> IN THE NEWS ALL THE TIME >>> consumers and manufacturers thinking about alternatives >>> Apple getting the the sales boost >>> linux getting 1 more %.
2006-03-24 6:17 pmDelboy
People statisically just use whatever is installed on a PC when they Buy it. 85% of Windows Sales are OEM is oft quoted in reports on windows which says it all.
I’m reminded of a certain game called Duke Nukem Forever, which was supposed to be released eight years ago… Not that Microsoft would be pushing the deadline further and further constantly, but it begins to feel like they’re about to.
Surely, bad management must have played a big part in this. Windows is in a much better position than Apple was during the 90s: They have a good kernel, brand new programming platform (.Net) and lots of cash, yet the project is sliding towards Copland’s situation. Of course, at least they managed to release usable betas, unlike Copland, but rewriting 60% of the code (let’s hope they are not talking about the whole code base) might very well put Vista back to the vaporware stage.
Edited 2006-03-24 17:55
It’s not April fools yet so this better not be prank. All prank articles should be released only on April Fools Day April 1st.
Anyoo. I wouldnt doubt it obviously. Frst all, supposidly PS3 is only OpenGL and supporting Linux so small wonder Vista is supporting OpenGL now and they have to rewrite Vista again.
Hopefully Linux can dload native Linux PS3 games off of Sony’s PS3 site skirting PS3 computer and taking advantage of PC-game offerings.
2006-03-24 6:04 pmDelboy
Erm I think you will find the OpenGL performance in Vista will be sub par. Its Mapping OGL through to DirectX 10. Forget the exact details but you get quite a hit on frame rate etc as a result.
2006-03-24 6:19 pmBonus
No supposidly MS says Vista is supporting OpenGL fully now which would take time to put in I’m guessing.
2006-03-24 6:25 pmDelboy
Interesting. If full ( At full speed ) OpenGL support is going in that would be a much bigger task.
If I remember correct th reason for OGL been layered on top of DirectX 10 was so everything would play nicely with ‘Avalon’ ( Now WPF ).
If true the whole rendering pipeline would have to be modified to accomodate this. Not 60% of codebase I guess but not exactly trivial either :-)))
2006-03-24 9:21 pmpphahnl
Now they’re including the possibility for a full OpenGL ICD if the graphic card vendor writes one – that’s what I’ve read. You’ll find a post on opengl.org – http://www.opengl.org/news/permalink/windows_vista_to_support_openg…
2006-03-24 9:44 pmsappyvcv
No, that was already an option before AFAIK.
2006-03-24 7:22 pmeMagius
A) There aren’t going to be any Linux-based PS3 games (apart from homebrew toys).
B) It’s not a prank — just entirely false reporting (quite typical of the sources).
Also if PS3 takes advantage of Open Source styles of developmemt which is highly likely with them embracing a service approach and using EnterpriseDB as their base then Vista will have even more catching up to do.
Vista will never be released. The next version of Windows will be released on Linux. MS has been running Windows on Linux for years in parallel with the released version, just as Apple was running OS X on Intel!!!!
Thom, why did you post this obvious hoax?
MS re-organizes each year.
2006-03-24 6:32 pmDelboy
Well the Jan 2007 for Consumer Vista versions isnt a hoax 🙂 Thats why MS share price dropped yesterday as all those Xmas OEM sales arent going to happen now
…only better ’cause its real!
2006-03-24 9:57 pmvitae
I’d agree, it is like a soap opera and has been ever since the word Longhorn was first uttered in tech forums. And whether it’s true or not, whether Vista is released on time or late, whether it has all the promised features or not, whether it’s secure or not, this story is just one more in a long line of essentially meaningless information about this product, all the while keeping the attention firmly focused on Vista, apparently by any means necessary.
Has there EVER been this level of hype for an OS in the making before?
2006-03-24 10:33 pmtopos
Yes, Windows 95! 2 Years in a “hype” mode.
Vista looks on the same path. There is a difference though: Windows 95 still had OS2 as a potential competitor. Vista can still be delayed for the next 3 years and no other alternative desktop OS would grab a significant share of th market.
2006-03-24 10:33 pmsappyvcv
Has there EVER been this level of hype for an OS in the making before?
No, but that has in big part to do with the internet. The internet really took off in 1999-2001, but the social/viral aspect has really taken off in the past few years. That includes hypeing of new things. 5 years ago, Microsoft could put out press releases and most of the time they would probably go largely unnoticed. Now with the changed social aspect of the internet, everyone picks up on everything they put out and say, and it gets spread fast. This creates the illusion that it’s being more excessively hyped by Microsoft than anything previously, when in reality, it’s a viral internet thing.
Edited 2006-03-24 22:35
This is definately not their first lemon.
Windows me works for me just like xp should.
requires a reboot after going to the bathroom.
every release of microsofts has not been based upon quality.
After seeing and using the febuary CTP release of vista, I can see that they are starting to care (I hope)
the os is more useable than xp for me.
Feb CTP is nearly code complete so i don’t think they’ll rewrite anything……..
The articles are not clear. Does it mean that 60% of the code have the be totally rewritten?
Or, is it just that the shoehorning of the Media center code requires 60% of the libraries/programs to be modified?
The latter case seems to be more likely since they’re still looking at a 2007 release. I just can’t see 60% of Vista getting rewritten and be released by CES.
Not to mention – a new rewrite would introduce a truckload of new bugs (esp. when it’s coded under pressure).
so forgive me if I repeat someone else.
But the articles refer to the “consumer version” of vista. And the articles are circular rumors with links to each other “confirming” their positions.
Anyways, MS OS’s are business desktops. Thier development focuses on the enterprise desktop. Consumer stuff is sort of tacked on the end.
They are releasing their business class OS in November. So it is my guess that the stuff that needs re-written is the ticky tacky consumer fluff.
Much ado about nothing….
I think the Vista delays will help take MS where I think they’re ultimately headed. . . a media company that also sells video games and PDAs.
MS ships Vista after numerous delays. . . few bite.
MS revamps its business server offerings. . . few bite.
MS sells a new version of Office. . . few bite.
Windows Mobile PDAs. . . go nuts.
XBox 360 sales. . . go nuts.
Windows Media Center embedded applications. . . eventually.
See where I’m going? I think Microsoft is headed where Apple would have been had the Mac market soured. Linux is rapidly grabbing up servers, Desktop Linux is slowly cutting into large MS accounts, and alternative servers from various vendors (e.g. DB servers) are eating away at MS’s other businesses. This is before we even start looking at Office alternatives like OpenOffice.
Microsoft won’t go away soon. But I think we’ll be looking at a much smaller, more micro Microsoft in the future.
2006-03-24 8:35 pmKelson
Not sure what you are smoking….
But, the rate at which Desktop Linux is cutting into large MS accounts is negligible. There is a one-off here or there, but nothing much that would represent a trend.
Oh, their earnings indicate they are not shrinking any either.
2006-03-24 9:27 pmcaptain_knobjockey
Do you keep up with the news ?
Whole countries are dropping Microsoft products and switching to Linux.
Not only are foreign countries doing it, but so too are US states, and major companies, IBM, US Steel and US military.
Do some research.
Its nice to see that some people here think through things and are not quick to swallow sensational reports.
Arstechnica is one of my favourite sites, because they carry information , not sensational reports. You can read about this latest Vista development here.
Now while I’m not exaclty on the Microsoft cheerleading team, I hate when people take things and run with it before thinking things through. Look below the surface people.
Edited 2006-03-24 19:28
Actually they have changed their minds, and they are going to rewrite the 60% because they plan to release the Vista code Open Source later !!!!
2006-03-24 7:53 pmsappyvcv
We get it, you like open source. Great, fantastic, good for you.
No one else cares though.
2006-03-24 8:07 pmBobmeister
Uh, don’t make judgements for in my place…I thought it was funny. And I care. Who are you?
2006-03-24 8:32 pmsappyvcv
Great, but this story is about Vista, and I was commenting on the persons need to constantly mention open source every time they post.
2006-03-24 9:30 pmcaptain_knobjockey
at the same token, we have seen you in linux posts being the retarded Windows fanboy
2006-03-24 9:40 pmsappyvcv
Well first, you’re getting way off-topic here.
Second, please point out where I brought up Windows in a Linux thread. I have responded to points about Windows already brought up in Linux threads, but that’s slightly different.
Third, nice insult buddy. I’m sure you’re proud of yourself.
Edited 2006-03-24 21:41
I remember the anticipation when Windows 2000 was due to be released. Windows 9x was unstable and primitive, while NT couldn’t run a lot of consumer software. Getting a stable and powerful OS that could run games and multimedia apps was brilliant and it gave me good reason to upgrade.
Maybe it was just a little too good as I’m still very happy to use 2K/XP 5+ years later. I’ve read numerous articles about Vista but I’ve yet to see anything very exciting, there’s certainly nothing to make me upgrade.
Whether it’s released this year, next year, or in 2010 doesn’t really matter to me. I’m probably not going to upgrade until existing OSes stop being supported and start to lack support for new hardware.
Edited 2006-03-24 23:52
Which person in their right mind would get a new version of Windows for Christmas, for themselves, their spouses or their kids? And if it’s about OEM sales..MS still makes sales with XP then. So I don’t see the fuss about shipping pre or after Xmas.
2006-03-27 6:58 pmDelboy
It isnt b* atall.
Alot of PC sales that would have ridden on the ‘Wow lets get a new PC with this new Super Windows OS thingy’ are gone.
Alot of consumers will look at the PC on offer and shrug ‘Just the same as the 2/3 year old PC I already have and works well enough might as well leave it till next year’.
Bear in mind we are arent talking about PC hobbyists/developers. The bulk is the general Comsumer space Buying OEM hardware ( Dell,HP et al )and see the banner advertising etc
It _is_ the Inquirer, which is about as trustworthy as Jeffrey Archer on a bad day, so much as I’d like to believe this I’ll be taking it with an entire cellar full of salt…
I sure hope that there’s a response in the story that refutes this story that mentions something about these stories mathmatically eliminating each other… I have a strong feeling there will be.
I just posted this link lol. I dont know how much of this is true and how much of this is false. But to be honest, I am not surpsised and I am a Windows XP user for those who were going to flame me for saying that. It is quite sad as I was looking forward to Vista.