“Apple Computer and Microsoft on Tuesday took steps toward releasing important operating system updates. Both companies are expected to release updates to their operating systems next month. Apple plans to release Mac OS X 10.2, and Microsoft is readying Windows XP Service Pack 1, the first collection of bug fixes and updates to the operating system released last October. Testers working with the releases said the companies are close to issuing near-final versions of the operating systems.” Read the report at ZDNews.
Apple, Microsoft Near OS Update Releases
2002-07-24 OS News 34 Comments
is this by chance, or was there some higher reasoning behind this?
i hope they removed all the crap they added since Win2k came out.. i feel XP is to Win2k what WinME was to Win98.. it has that single new crucial feature i need, but adds crap and instability on top.. it’s 1 step forward and alot of steps back.. i’ll welcome the day Windows surpasses BeOS R5.. my guess would be.. around SP10 for the 3rd windows after Longhorn. (around 2015?)
sure I get wierd little problems like a white blotch near the sys tray (pulling the toolbar below the screen fixes it)
and the ICONs are not fully consistent (the 2k admin tools are not updated to look/feel of xp)
but I have had uptimes that rival my Linux box.
i have some serious tooltip problems in the taskbar.. they always show for another icon than the one i’m highlighting.. it’s quite annoying.. and those sudden 100% cpu grabbing explorer moments.. and don’t get me started on the amount of memory the ‘new’ not improved explorer consumes.. (not IE).. and my files can’t be deleted.. they are ‘being used by some program or something, we don’t know, because we don’t care.. maybe uploading the file to our MS db, we won’t tell you.. we just occupy your files dumbass’ kinda situations.. i COULD go on.. but i’m sick of ranting about something that’ll obviously never improve..
i should just get a console for gaming.. they don’t crash couple a times a day do they? and stick to BeOS for a decent desktop experience.. (no thanks Mac, can’t afford it)
Mac OS X 10.2 is more than an upgrade. It’s like 2000 to XP – it’s a whole “new” OS. Apple’s version of “service packs” come in the dot-dot releases (as in 10.1.1, 10.1.2, etc.). Apple probably wants to stick with the “Mac OS X 10.x” for awhile, because, after all, Mac OS X 11.5 doesn’t make much sense. 🙂
Anyway, just that… XP is getting a service pack, Mac OS X is getting a whole new version.
> XP is getting a service pack, Mac OS X is getting a whole new version.
Now, now.. that is not fair, and it is just gas for flamebait. WinXP also has the Freestyle and Mira versions ready for september while its .NET versions for both 32bit and 64bit are in beta. Microsoft has more things going on regarding their OSes. Apple has to maintain one and half OSes (OSX and OSX Server), while Ms has to maintain a whole spectrum of XP-based OSes, plus all their other server software and Office projects going on in other areas.
Let’s be fair here. Ms is a bigger company, they do more stuff. It is actually pretty normal.
Windows xp sucks its a horrid gui put ontop of win2k and using the same crappy explorer module,GO microsoft way to charge 500$ for a win2k upgrade.
Get a life.
Eugenia : Now YOU are the one that isnt being fair and putting words in someone else’s mouth. I dont see anywhere in Erik’s post that he said that MS had less to do, or that Apple did more. His point was a valid one. MS releases a service pack, which im sure doesnt give the user a whole wad of new things, probably just a few security patches, and the normal stuff that comes in a service pack. You cant say the same about 10.2 of OSX, that is a HUGE difference over 10.1 if you ask me, and im not even a machead.
And I have to say, I’m impressed!
Now, if Apple releases a G5 in August, then I think I’ll get rid of this computer and buy me one of these bad-azz machines.
I don’t know about the rest of you but i am not particularly impressed with XP. The experience has made decide that my next machine, despite the price and poor results on processor benchmarks, will be an apple. I don’t think i am alone.
I had the oppisitte opinion, I used beos for year and a half cause i could not stand win98 i couldn’t take it. Finaly my windows beos and other OS were all borked so i blanked everything and tried XP, I expected to hate it but in the end found it to be very good. It makes me not miss beos so much. It is incredibly stable, fast, looks very good (not realy the from box look but set to silver scheme in the options panel) I have some issues finding things sometimes cause there not where the where but thats to be expected, things change. XP is very nice, The only complaints I have are small, such as embedded apps and a few other things. It’s by far one of the most impressive OS’s I have seen. I have tried OSX and did not like it at all, I truely can’t see why one would want a mac. But to each there own, use what you like. XP seams to get bashed here alot, so do other OS’s all deserve some at some level. If everyone agreed on how an OS should be then there would be one OS and that aint happening.
I do agree, XP is getting a service pack while OS X is getting a relatively large revamp. Although I see no reason to bash XP, aside from it’s liscense, I really do think it’s a genuinely “good” OS. I personally prefer OS X since I’m typing this from my Mac, but XP over all is a step in the right direction even moreso than Win2k was (as this IS meant for the consumer desktop).
On a side note, I’m typing this from the newest release of Chimera Navigator for OS X, and I do have to say I’m deeply impressed with the progress they’ve made.
so you’ll keep paying for your @mac.com e-mail address?
The @mac.com email address is still free if you want to use it without paying for the full “.Mac” package.
so what the heck is the problem?
I do think that they should offer a free service that includes a .mac address and a few other things though.
Actually we don’t know for sure if it’ll still be free or not. Apple has said no. Their FAQ does say it’s possible but it’s from 2001, so it probably doesn’t apply to this. But yes, I intend on paying for a reliable email address, 100MB webspace, and Anti-virus software.
Here’s my timber to the fire. xp pro was not the $200 upgrade/revision/whatever-you-want-to-call-it from win2K microsoft led me to believe.
And some other timber… the free 10.1 upgrade/rev–you get the idea–seemed very substantial to me.
A small step for Be (walked through 2 years ago), but a huge leap for MS/Apple.
That concludes the OS desktop pretty much and the latest progress that we’ve seen.
Mark — When you say you checked out 10.2 at an Apple Store, do you mean you read about it or actually used it? I didn’t think it was loaded on any machines yet.
And if you did use it, what did you like about it? How did it perform?
God I hope the disappearing status bar bug is fixed in XP’s SP1. It is sooo damn annoying, and all this time I thought it was just my install, until my old college roomate stopped by for a visit last week and his laptop did the same.
I don’t know if XP Service Pack 1 is just supposed to be the collection of all the patches or if is also supposed to include new features. Apple, because it is a “new” OS, is on a totally different update track than hey used to be. 10.04 to 10.1 was huge. And 10.2 is double huge.
I had the public beta of both XP and OS X. I’ve used Macs since the beginning, knew how to use Windows and kind of liked Windows 2000. I was stunned by XP though. I loved it right from that beta. It’s so fast, so friendly looking, so easy to use. I’ve never had any of the problems you see articles about in, oh, a place like C/Net, where they always have those features like, “Killing XP’s Demons” <g>.
But, it’s really amazing what has happened with these OS’s since Windows 3.11 and Mac OS 7. I can’t even keep up with all the different versions of XP, like Eugenia was mentioning. And OS X is just getting rolling.
I was 26 years old when the Apple II came out. It makes me wonder when people say this or that OS “sucks”. I don’t know, I just don’t think that way. I’ve seen so much of this happen. It just seems like yesterday that I’d be over at someone’s house and they’d have some computer with 16k of RAM hooked up to their TV set. When someone got a 300 baud modem there was near hysteria! <g> That was half my lifetime ago and it seems so near, not far at all. And when I see what has happened in the meantime, it is just awesome. It is worthwhile to point out flaws in computing platforms as that is one way they get fixed. But, in a more overarching sense, what has happened…back then I would have said no way. People like Gates and Jobs have also said the same. LOL, I’m older than those guys, which really tees me off <g>.
XP is completely bizarre if you ask me…no amount of fixes, upgrades, and/or service packs will fix it. The few times I have actually touched an XP box I kind of instinctively recoiled in disgust. I’m not really sure what the problem is…maybe it is just bad GUI feng shui…it just doesn’t feel right. and the paperclip and other assorted ‘wizards’ and freaky animations freak me out. it just seems to get in the way. I don’t use any micro$oft products anymore; only *nix boxes (SunOS, OS X, and Linux). I like the interfaces and abundance of free and open-source software. I can’t imagine that I’ll ever puchase or use a windows box regularly, not as long as I have a choice anyway. UNIX and Linux are simply too much fun. I am looking forward to OS X 10.2…zero-conf sounds really cool.
i hope they removed all the crap they added since Win2k came out.. i feel XP is to Win2k what WinME was to Win98.. it has that single new crucial feature i need, but adds crap and instability on top.. it’s 1 step forward and alot of steps back..
What it seems like crap to you is a feature to someone else. For example, the new login screen, may seem like a bunch of eye candy, but in reality is making multi-user easier than ever for Windows’ Joe Sixpack.
… I don’t think XP would ever have really appealed to a Unix fan.. about the only things it has in common with *Nix are the multiuser structure of the OS and the stability…
XP is meant to be a userfriendly OS.. the wizards bug me too but they make things a lot easier for the beginner.. and we as techies are somewhat dependant on a stream of new users to maintain the progress of our hobby. I like XP for the low-eyestrain interface – conventional Windows appearances – and I’m typing this from Win2K – give me a headache…
The very few XP GUI changes (nothing revolutionary) are not that bad, I actually like them a lot. I wanted to shoot down the animated dog, which I did with one click, so that is no freackin problem to me. Problem with XP was an overall negative experience. Among other issues, I have had weird severe problems with my Plextor40A CDRW drive and with my US-Robotics USB ADSL modem also, so many problems that after checking out new drivers and patches and after reinstalling the system various times, I finally gave up and went back to MS-Windows2K, now I have peace and everything works right.
Add to the above that XP sucked more resources and didn’t feel as reliable as w2k where I have exactly the same functionality, working. I’m not going to install that service pack, I think I’ll wait to the FreeStyler edition before checking out XP again. Two lifes for me please.
“XP is meant to be a userfriendly OS.. the wizards bug me too but they make things a lot easier for the beginner..”
is it really that much easier to use than say, OS X? I have to admit that I have no idea how to operate a windows system these days…to me it seems difficult to do even the simplest thing. much less a complex IIS task. to me, the unixen are actually easier to use than windows systems…I feel like I have direct control of the machine…(I can do ‘top’ and ‘kill’ instead of ctrl-alt-delete and end task, “are you sure?” but that’s me, an admitted geek that modifies initialization scripts for sh|ts and giggles. so I’m not a beginner. but when someone asks me what kind of laptop they should get I don’t tell them, well, why not get a new TiBook and make it a triple-boot OS X/OpenBSD/gentoo system…that would be l33t0. no, I tell them to get a Dell or a Sony (which will no doubt come with XP). whatever.
“and we as techies are somewhat dependant on a stream of new users to maintain the progress of our hobby. I like XP for the low-eyestrain interface – conventional Windows appearances – and I’m typing this from Win2K – give me a headache…”
you have a point here about mainstream users feeding the progress of our hobby. but really, I think all OSes will give you a headache if you stare at them for long enough…say like 8 hours a day (ouch). but the XP interface is messed up somehow…I think they are not following sound design principles…like using aesthetically proportioned rectangles…they are not using the golden rectangles. to me, this stuff is important…precisely because I spend 8 hours a day staring at my computer. I don’t want to stare at a piece of crap all day. but I guess some peoploe like XP’s look. personally, I think win2K looks better than XP…
I agree XP is better than 98, but so was 2k. I ran 2k pro for a long time and liked it, I installed XP about 4-5 months after it’s release. The first thing I did was change the start button and GUI, the XP theme just seemed too fisher price for my taste. I the spent the rest of the day disabling services and making a ton of tweaks to make the OS “lighter”. At the end of the day when I was done changing all the things that annoyed me, what I had left, was Windows 2000.
I decided the best way to tackle XP was to edit a full video project that wasn’t as time-sensitive on it. Despite all of my preplanning, let’s just say that XP didn’t help me out and only got in the way.
The buttons were way too big, the window fluff was constantly covering up my workspace, and after having to tweak the gui to be easier to manage and not have to keep dragging windows from out of the way of each other, I was forced to hound down more drivers to get my project back to tape without stuttering or quitting midway. For a short clip, OK. But when the program is 20+ minutes long and you can’t export any faster than realtime, everytime was over 20 minutes wasted.
Really, I’ve used Windows for so long that I’ve actually grown a high tolerance for timewasting like that. And believe it or not, I was ready and willing to put up with that all for the claimed speed gains and stability in my “upgrade” to XP Pro.
But what speed gains? I don’t care how fast I can open and close windows or even scroll through something. In video, what matters is speed for scrubbing, speed for rendering and in this case, neither showed up to the “party”. What stability? I had to reboot (and I cursed) twice as much on average than editing projects on my win2K machine (although I never had to reinstall the OS, but that point’s moot by all the time I wasted troubleshooting).
The most secure, the most stable, the most friendly version of Windows, yeah right. Maybe on your Madonna themed commercial, but not in real experience.
Like the second comment in this list said…. it’s a long way to 2015. And why wait? BeOS is free to download today…
Just a little side note – apparantly Mac users can keep their mac.com address if they got it when/if they signed up with Earthlink when they bought their Macs.
Also, Apple has announced that you can upgrade to 10.2 for $19.95 if you buy a qualifying Mac between 7/17 and 10/31. Sort of high price <g>. But, on the other hand, if new Power Macs come out and they turn out to be nifty, then that wouldn’t be a bad deal at all.
Truth is, the forthcoming updates for both OSes are quite significant, with the one for OSX being the most significant of the two due to major architectural changes.
The timing being similar is probably a coincidence, OSX is not (yet) considered all that dangerous by M$ (just you wait).
XP SP1 will also annoy several people due to its new anti-pir8 scheme.
Adding to the further degeneration of the conversation:
As to whether XP sucks or not, I’m using it as I write this. It’s OK and the only reason I installed it was to get Remote Desktop, driver rollbacks and System Restore. Nothing else interested me that I can’t get through 3rd party utilities. Remote Desktop rules, though of course you could always use W2K Server as a workstation OS, if you can afford it, and that way get the FULL version :>
I turned off ALL the eyecandy, tweaked the hell out of several registry parameters and it still feels slower than 2K, though not by much (I have enough RAM, BTW). But if something feels slower, that’s all that matters to the end user no matter what benchmarks tell you (which is why lightning fast disk and video are so important for a workstation and why my ancient B180L HP workstation still feels fast, having SCSI RAID 0 with 7 drives).
In my benchmarking, W2K and XP were extremely close on the SAME box.
Hasn’t crashed on me once but then again I don’t do anything demanding on it, just office, mail, Xserver etc.
I use my B180L as a file server for it, BTW…
In all honesty, XP could really have been just a W2K SP but anyway… M$ is not Sun, their way of making money is purely through software.
i thought that 2000 and xp were more different than everyone is making them out to be. xp wasn’t just a service pack to 2000 or a minor update. doesn’t xp have an entirely new driver model and stuff? keeping in mind that i’m a mac user that uses a pc to download dreamcast games :>, so i’m not really ‘in the know’ about all this stuff. as far as a personal experience? i had 2000 installed for about a month, and it would crash CONSTANTLY, I installed XP and I haven’t had a crash since (well, i’ve had apps crash, just not the os)
XP is a changed driver model for Win9x users. But if you go from W2K to XP, then there’s no change. The change was from VXDs to WDMs. Woo hoo. Actually, I did notice the audio latency improvements with the WDM drivers, to be fair.
As for the OS in general… I spent hours tweaking the crap out of two XP installs to get rid of crap I didn’t want and the OS STILL takes up 1.5 GIG. This is retarded.
Is it more stable than Win98? It’s supposed to be, but as an audio workstation on one partition and a graphics workstation on the other… I find the system to be just as flaky as Win98. You folks who just use the OS to web surf and do email and word processing… you probably have it just fine. In my case, with at least twelve different but related apps on the system for one media or the other… it still sucks ass.
Oh, and I hate multi-user systems. I don’t want a multi-user OS. I’ve lost time, energy and data because of having to screw with this crap and it would be really nice if there were a modern OS without multi-user functionality in it at all.
And yeah, I know what I’m doing… I’m just sick of having to know so f$#@^%ing much just to use a few programs and to put data where I freaking want it.