“Microsoft Corp. has halted hardware driver support for users of Windows 98 and Windows NT in a bid to push users to the company’s new operating systems. […] On its web site, Microsoft explains that ‘Beginning 01 July 2002, at 12:01 A.M. PST, WHQL will no longer accept submissions for all hardware devices and systems for the following operating systems. This includes all submission types for all devices and systems: Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition (SE); Windows NT 4.0 Workstation; (and) Windows NT 4.0 Server.'” Read the report at ExtremeTech.
Microsoft Halts Driver Support For Windows 98
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Eugenia Loli
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I hope I’ll cope for a while longer.
NT4 is sooo stable, though the lack of USB support is begining to be a real bummer.
W2k is, IMO, the last outpost for windows. XP simply has a huge sticer saying ‘I suck’ all over it; at least from a sysadms point of view; licens issues aside.
must be WinXP, 2000, and .NET server are harder sells than they thought…or could it be that for most people, NT4 and Win98 were just ‘good enough’
With so many production servers under NT4 and big problmes for the migration, I think M$ will see the end of NT when the hardware running NT will die …
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http://islande.hirlimann.net
Win98 is like 200% compatible with WinME right? Well, Win98 doesnt have the features that cause it to lock up every 10minutes and reboot randomly but that aside… I’m not a “fan” of Win98, but i dont see what Microsoft loses by supporting it. The WinME drivers work in Win98 dont they? So its not like if they need to support a whole other line of drivers.
The only reason i can see for that is that people will then want to upgrade, but in reality do they need to? I just hope companies stick it out like ATi is and keeps on shipping drivers that work in Win98 (Win95 too seeing how its my favorite Windows version).
While I can see the motive behind not supporting Win98 anymore (to push the people and most importandly, the developers, to upgrade to XP), I can’t take Microsoft’s side this time. Windows98 has 48% of the market, STILL. And that means that they should support it.
But Apple is not better either. In order to push people to upgrade to OSX (currently only 10% of their userbase uses OSX!!!) they announced in May that they are stopping development and developer support for MacOS9, which has the 90% of their userbase.
Well, these companies need their new products going, it seems. At least Linux still supports kernel 2.2.x !!
Microsoft realizes that its newer versions of Windows are competing with the older versions, and is trying to weed out the “competition”. Win98 is indeed “good enough” for most people, so MS has to make it a greater liability to stick with 98.
Of course, I’m stuck! My old AMD K6-200Mhz processor doesn’t meet the minimum requirements for XP, so I can’t use it even if I want to until I buy a new computer, and I’m not sure that I do want to use XP.
Here’s hoping that OBOS will be usable before MS comes out with too many more versions of Windows!
But Apple is not better either.
Did Apple stop providing drivers for hardware though? How does the Apple Drivers work anyways? Who provides them? Apple? the hardware companies?
Hrmm…this makes me think of the dilema i have to face now that my sister wants to return to windows (damn brother has corrupted her) when i leave for university.
>Did Apple stop providing drivers for hardware though?
Yes. They do not ship OS9 anymore and new hardware won’t get any drivers for OS9, neither OS9 will get any updates. They said so in May.
>Who provides them? Apple?
Most of the time, yes. Apple does.
In the Win98 situation, things are not that bad. Third party manufacturers WILL still ship Win98 drivers. It is not that you people are out of complete support for future hardware. It is just that Microsoft won’t accept these drivers for Qualification. But you could always find these drivers on the net on the web sites of whatever hardware manufacturer.
In the Apple situation is worse, as most drivers for MacOS is written by Apple themselves. Now that Apple has burried OS9, new Mac hardware will truly be unsupported on OS9.
What it all boils down to is companies that are hungry for money, cant really blame them. Which gives me just another reason to support the free OSes out there. I dont need to worry too much about being stabbed in the back and pushed around.
While im on the topic of drivers and operating systems…Has anyone ever been able to get a Promise Ultra133 TX2 IDE Controller going in linux with a kernel newer than 2.4.8? I got a Promise tech support guy to email me the sources of the driver that they give to RedHat for it which was a patch for 2.4.8 and it didnt like my 2.4.17 sources.
>> Has anyone ever been able to get a Promise Ultra133 TX2
>> IDE Controller going in linux with a kernel newer than
>> 2.4.8? I got a Promise tech support guy to email me the
>> sources of the driver that they give to RedHat for it
>> which was a patch for 2.4.8 and it didnt like my 2.4.17
>> sources.
nuff said
Despite their wealth, I believe Microsoft is witnessing the dimming of the light at the end of the tunnel and grasping for anything it can. I think it’s trying to prepare for some barren years ahead.
The NT 4 desktop I’m at right now (which has a USB Zip drive attached and working) has it’s replacement sitting across the room. First I tried Lindows and just about puked. Now it’s running Red Hat 7.3 on a test basis. I’m thinking about giving Lycoris a try and curious to see what Xandros comes up with. Meanwhile on the other half of the KVM switch a Windows 95 OSR 2.1 (also boots QNX 4) will maintain it’s role as a typical representative desktop environment in this company with hundreds of desktops.
How many people have an ATA133 IDE controller in their desktops? I’m the only person i know that has one. Linux has support for just about every Promise controller EXCEPT that one (and im mean proper support, in the kernel).
Why cant people put a little thought before bashing Linux or any operating system for that matter?
I agree with Michael. Many systems will not run the newer Windows versions as-is. Many people will not upgrade their computers just to run the latest version of Windows. (My parents especially.) I think as long as manufacturers continue to ship Windows 98 drivers, which would be suicide not to, Microsoft is screwed.
I’ve been trying to get people to migrate to WinNT from 95 and 2000 from 98 for ages because of the better stability.
It sucks if you are a non-techy user and don’t want to change.. but in the end 9x should have been killed off years ago.
I suspect that Windows 2K drivers would run under NT anyway…
So when I am using BeOS, I no longer feel so strange using an unsupported OS, since every one of my other OSs is also a few years or more too old & abandoned (almost all).
When I use W2000 I no longer get the thrill I did when 1st upgrading from NT4. When I boot to NT4 the thrill of a small fast responsive OS comes right back. NT4 can fit on a Zip disk, W2K feels/is 10x bigger. Shame NT4 has smaller HW support, but probably supports all my BeOS HW fine.
When I use MacOS8, fond memories indeed even though the emulation is now way faster then any Apple HW I own. Ah so atleast all the 68k SW runs fine under x86.
When I boot any of several Linux distros, I know its a few versions behind in all parts, the thought of upgrading to latest version no longer appeals.
Since all my old BeOS/Windows/MacOS SW is real old, am I supposed to replace it to stay up with newer bloated releases. NO, I gave up chasing newer is better, just money down the drain.
Wonder where my old Beeb/QL are.
Really sucky…NT is super solid on our work computers…what the hell…upgrade to use new hardware? I doubt it… Linux is looking better and better in our workplace because MS software is getting more and more expensive…and we like industrial grade OS’s on our work machines…who wants to get the blue screen of death after working 5 hours on a project? Just have to save my work more often I guess…
Dano.
Here’s hoping that OBOS will be usable before MS comes out with too many more versions of Windows!
If you are waiting for OBOS…. then you probably don’t need Windows…. heck, you should stay away from Windows…
Well, these companies need their new products going, it seems. At least Linux still supports kernel 2.2.x !!
They also supported 2.0 for a long long time….
Did Apple stop providing drivers for hardware though? How does the Apple Drivers work anyways? Who provides them? Apple? the hardware companies?
No more upgrades for Mac OS 9 (except for Carbonlib).
Yes. They do not ship OS9 anymore and new hardware won’t get any drivers for OS9, neither OS9 will get any updates. They said so in May.
IIRC, they would ship OS 9 for compatiblity issues, until OS X gets all the apps OS 9 had (or at least most of it).
Despite their wealth, I believe Microsoft is witnessing the dimming of the light at the end of the tunnel and grasping for anything it can. I think it’s trying to prepare for some barren years ahead.
Of course, Microsoft is the only tier one software company that was profitable the last quarter…. Microsoft is loosing shares in the server market, but for the desktop, they are hardly loosing anything, and for the PDA market, they are gaining, not loosing…
…who wants to get the blue screen of death after working 5 hours on a project?…
Camel had mentioned after 3 months his Windows NT box becomes unresponsive…. never heard a BSOD happening on NT as a result of being on too long.
>>XP simply has a huge sticer saying ‘I suck’ all over it; at least from a sysadms point of view<<
Why? It’s only a minor point release (NT 5.1). It essentially is Windows 2000 with a couple of new features. Don’t like ’em? Then turn them off. It’s also rock solid stable, IF you know what you are doing.
Wasn’t Win98 the first Microsoft OS to use the WDM drivers? Don’t all “current” Windows* OSes use the same model?
to wipe my systems clean and run win98 just because of this…
i wonder if they have stopped letting people dl the ddk too?
wonder if they realize some people may just still have a copy tucked away someplace?
Ideally, Microsoft would sell a stripped down XP/2000 install for people with low-end PCs.. or someone would make one in the fashion of 98lite… but adding IE6 and PnP drivers to whatever base version of NT was used.
If you could actually remove the Luna theme completely, and if you disabled all the effects and a lot of the background services, I don’t see why XP shouldnt run on P133’s and up… NT4 certainly did.
I think MS is perfectly in their senses to start to stop supporting 98. That is a fair bit of coders who can work on newer stuff. Plus There isn’t much reason for them to support something they have moved on from. It’s not like 98 is dead or won’t still work, but there really shouldn’t be anything MS needs to do with it. Also I think MS would just like to get everyone on 2000/XP for the stability issues. I’m sure their sick about people still saying windows crashes when they solved that from 2000 and up. Heck the dumb apple switch commercials talk of BSOD in windows when a computer hasn’t shipped that makes them in a year with XP and older with 2000, Apple just started going full OSX, OS9 was the most unstable thing ever. You have to step away from the old at some point and if you don’t , don’t bitch about lack of support or other problems. And also there isn’t that many versions of windows. New version every 2 years is about right, How many versions of Linux are floating around and you can’t two apps on the same system cause of conflicts and such. MS may be evil and suck at times but this isn’t one of them
Ideally, Microsoft would sell a stripped down XP/2000 install for people with low-end PCs.. or someone would make one in the fashion of 98lite… but adding IE6 and PnP drivers to whatever base version of NT was used.
Of course, most apps won’t work without the DLLs.
If you could actually remove the Luna theme completely, and if you disabled all the effects and a lot of the background services, I don’t see why XP shouldnt run on P133’s and up… NT4 certainly did.
The user interface is one small point of its slowness. But really, if you 98 machine works fine, the drivers work fine, why grumble?
I still think 98 was the best-lets hope MS will continue to make apps for it.
I’m not readu to buy a hardware that doesn’t make work my Win98Se, W2k , Xp , Me all sucks !!! beos is better anyway !!!
I don’t see how any programs are likely to be calling on the DLLs for say Pinball… or System restore, or Indexing service, for that matter. Likewise multicolour icons could be ditched….
it shiould be possible to make a lightweight XP OS for old hardware without breaking compatibility
Do your cross-reading on hardocp + INQ… MS never supported any product by writing drivers, this only relates to the _certification_ And who cares about that? Ever installed beta Detonators or such stuff…? I don’t care about WHQL, and yes, there will be future W98 drivers, just as good or bad as they used to be before…
I still think 98 was the best-lets hope MS will continue to make apps for it.
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Best in what way? Stability? What’s out now is LIGHT YEARS ahead of 9x/ME, and that’s not saying much.
I’m sure their sick about people still saying windows crashes when they solved that from 2000 and up. Heck the dumb apple switch commercials talk of BSOD in windows when a computer hasn’t shipped that makes them in a year with XP and older with 2000,
Give me a break. I’m running XP on two partitions. I get BSOD on both. The first time was due to a 3rd party driver or app (filespy.sys) in GigaStudio. Not MS’s fault, I suppose, but still… third party software shouldn’t be able to kill the OS.
I’ve been using Windows since WFW3.1 and I honestly still cannot see that stability has improved in any considerable way barring the changes from 3.1 to NT that allow you to survive most app deaths.
Could it be that I’m seeing the same BS because I still use the same software collection (albeit in modern versions)?
Any media pros using several audio cards and apps at a time here that think XP is just as brittle as most other MS operating systems?
2.0 is still being maintained and updated. I think they are up to 2.0.40. There is talk on various mailing lists about finally letting it go.
Does XP has a dricver for these?:
Rockwell HCF56 winmodem
SiS 6326
a CMediass sound card
a MS Siudewinder Precision pro
In response to A.A. Fussy.
I’ve installed XP and had the whole process be simply a breeze. However, about half the time it is a horrible experience. One machine, a Compaq Presario 5200 Z was by far the worst case I’ve had. I anticipated trouble just because it was a Compaq. About ninety percent of the machines I work on are Compaqs so I am only all-too-familiar with them. I had never dealt with this particular model before, but when I saw the Phoenix BIOS on boot, and what apeared to be an FIC SD 11 mainboard, a Soundblaster PCI 64, a Matrox chip sound card, and a generic Rockwell based Winmodem, I expected the installation to go easily. To make a very very long story short, I replaced all those components before the machine worked. All the components were Compaq OEM spec which did not have XP drivers. If you have an OEM machine, you might want decide you are perfectly happy with your current version of Windows.
well i installed 98 second edition under virtual pc…
played around with it a few hours and remembered why i hated that os so much to begin with … maybe it IS best to let some things die
You don’t just “switch” to NT or Win2K, especially if you’re a home user. The best thing about Win98 is its broad compatibility, not only with newer software, but especially with 16-bit Windows programs and even DOS programs (a few of which I *still* find useful). Yes, I have a DOS 6.22/WFW 3.11 partition I can boot into for “serious” 16-bit work, but it’s very convenient to just run the occasional old program in Win98 to look something up or copy it over for Office or e-mail or whatever.
NT has always had sucky DOS emulation, and Win2K isn’t much better. Is XP better? I doubt it.
Staples and Costco are still selling Win98SE
Well, a while back when I went to Harvey Norman at Bundall, Gold Coast-I think they had 98 and the 2002 version of Encarta-not 2003.
A.A. Fussy sez:
Does XP has a dricver for these?:
Rockwell HCF56 winmodem
SiS 6326
a CMediass sound card
a MS Siudewinder Precision pro
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I know first-hand that 3 of those work fine in Windows 2000. (cmedia chip/soundcard support, sis6326-based graphics, rockwell winmodems). Interesting that you judge an OS by the support it gets, rather than how it’s made/how reliable it is. Windows 98 is complete nightmare for stability/uptime, and you’d be aware of it if you used it for anything more than casual use.
>NT has always had sucky DOS emulation, and Win2K isn’t much better. Is XP better? I doubt it.
well depends how you define “DOS Emulation”. Lately I’ve been playing some reaaaally old games under w2k and i experienced no trouble at all. (stuff like SENTINEL WORLDS, ARCHON, THE NEUROMANCER and of course all lucasfilm games).
I think there’s even a way to have sb16 sound under w2k dos emu. As long as you do not use programs like amisetup.exe *g* the dos emu is sufficient enough. I would be interested to know what programs/tools you are talking about, because i hear this “w2k dos emu sucks” quite often.
-florian
” While im on the topic of drivers and operating systems…Has anyone ever been able to get a Promise Ultra133 TX2 IDE Controller going in linux with a kernel newer than 2.4.8? ”
I was browsing through the Gentoo Forums ( http://forums.gentoo.org/ ) today, looking for information on my Promise PDC20276 (fake-)RAID chipset In one post I read, someone said that they’re running the TX2 with no problems. I myself am using my RAID controller for standard IDE, upon which I’m using Linux software RAID. It works like a dream.