I just came back from the festivities taking place in the Apple Store at Palo Alto, California, regarding the launch of MacOSX 10.2 Jaguar, and I got some exclusive pictures (well, almost…). There was a huge line of people waiting to get in the store. They were probably there for many-many hours. Just a few minutes before they open the doors to people, Steve Jobs enters the building (passing next to me by just one meter from where I was standing), and people around started getting really excited!The doors opened, a lot of people tried to storm in, and the “bodyguards” were only allowing a few people at the time to get in. Being part of OSNews, I got lucky, I got in as one of the first people, even if I did not wait at all in the line. The store employees were sharing free gifts (I got an X sticker and 2 Jaguar round mousepads :), and they were selling Jaguar with 10% discount (and they were giving away a free Apple T-Shirt with each purchase). There was also a competition, to win an iMac with a SuperDrive. The people, Steve Jobs and other Apple employees, all seemed happy, and everything went smooth for the time I was there (for not more than 30 minutes really).
Sorry for the bad quality of some of the pics. Some were taken behind a glass, while being a shorty, some of the pics were taken “blindly” from above.
that’s some reality distortion field that Steve Jobs emits … affects camera flash RAM … impressed!
spaceboy29: i agree its funny how these xpee people reply to OS X. They think they know it and never have used it. Windows trolls just put your foot where your mouth is…….you sound more intellegent that way…..
It’s also extremely funny how macheads reply to XP. They think they know it and never have used it. Windows trolls just put your foot where your mouth is…….you sound more intellegent that way…..
CattBeMac: I have found it to be strange, but my guess would be the built-in FireWall within XP denying them access (actually they can’t even see the shared drives
Weird, it works for me. Of course, I switch off the built in firewall, and use Zone Alarm.
willem: Where are you located?
Malaysia. My older brother ambition is to be a audio technician or something like that, so naturally I know what most people over here use.
Eric Peterson: rajan, I’ve been reading your comments on these boards for the last few months, and I must say… you exemplify forum troll like no other.
Really? I never got any warnings, no complaints, no moderated down posts etc.
Eric Peterson: Let me guess… I’m not the only one that has ever said this to you. Am I right?
You’re the first one. Just because I have a different opinion than you doesn’t make me a troll. Read the moderated down stuff, those are *real* trolls.
>>Weird, it works for me. Of course, I switch off the built in firewall, and use Zone Alarm.<<
I guess you can call yourself one in a million!
It would seem that one man’s *opinion* is another man’s troll
Glenn said “Macosz audio and network drivers are in unprotected kernal space. You will need to reboot after an audio crash because the audio driver can write over any mem (remind u of os9?)..when logic for osx finally gets released”
I was curious and contacted one of the core audio guys at Apple I know (he also wrote OMS, galaxy, and a lot of studio vision pro when he was with opcode) and asked him about Glenns statement.
He replied,
“I have never heard of “unprotected kernel space.” Kernel space is protected from applications and vice versa, and applications are protected from each other. But drivers on any OS with protected memory must run in the kernel and thus the kernel is always vulnerable to driver bugs.”
The drivers out so far are rock solid he said.
” But drivers on any OS with protected memory must run in the kernel and thus the kernel is always vulnerable to driver bugs.”
On the x86 a kernal process can be protected from writing outside its mem space (mem protection) but it cannot be stopped from reading. So its a security risk but not a stability one. As i said only windows has this technology and its been in it since win2k.
“With the aid of a processor’s memory management unit (MMU), Win2K marks as write-protected the drivers’ and OS image’s code portions. If an errant driver attempts to modify these portions of kernel memory, the Win2K Memory Manager immediately detects the violation, and an administrator or developer can then easily identify the faulty driver.”
http://www.winntmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=7486&pg=2
Glenn
No OS can protect itself from a buggy kernel driver. The best the OS can do is what Microsoft — to their credit — is doing: maintain a database of drivers that are known to destabilize the system and refuse to load them.
If Windows were any different than MacOS in this regard, it wouldn’t have or need a feature like the one described at http://www.microsoft.com/hwdev/driver/drv_protect.asp:
The Driver Protection feature in the Windows XP Professional and Windows XP Home Edition operating systems protects operating system stability by preventing the operating system from loading drivers that are known to cause stability problems. Driver Protection is built upon application compatibility technology present in Windows XP. Driver Protection is active at all times—during operating system upgrades from prior versions of Windows and at runtime after the operating system is installed. Driver Protection is not intended to be disabled by end users.
I never mentioned driver protection. Im talking about the WDM driver model itself. WDM are the only kernal mode drivers with memmory protection.. this is made possible by the x86 achitecture.
Glenn
Let’s see if I understand:
1) You say you are not biased, and that you are not a troll.
2) You don’t stop bitching about some feature OS X doesn’t have, while Windows had it for years ha ha ha!
3) Then you say it is only possible with the x86 architecture (you haven’t forgotten that OS X doesn’t run on that architecture have you?).
What are you doing exactly?
He’s been comparing windows audio card’s capabilities and drivers (made by 3rd parties) with the core audio system capability of mac OS X.Which is a bit disingenous (to say kindly).
I say that the OS X of mac now incorporates many features that are 3rd party add ons (hardware and soft) for windows.
“Steve Jobs enters the building, passing next to me by just one meter from where I was standing, and people around started getting really excited!”
I’m not surprised Steve Jobs had to pass by Eugenia before people noticed him lol 😉
He’s been comparing windows audio card’s capabilities and drivers (made by 3rd parties) with the core audio system capability of mac OS X.Which is a bit disingenous (to say kindly).”
No i wasnt what are u talking about? Unlike Macos9 which had little mixer and little audio format support nativly .. windows allways has. Just cause ASIO wasnt written by apple dosent mean WDM wasnt written by microsoft .. it was.
WDM drivers give 1.5 ms now in sonar such as the hammerfall card. How am i supposed to demonstrate latency without an audio card? (Only osx Coreaudio reality distortion field can do that) All of directMusic and the Audio streaming apis.. and the GM synth and the rest of directmusic were written by microsoft. Just like apple wrote coreaudio.. i really dont see what your trying to say here..
DirectX and DirectMusic and WDM drivers are all MS technology.. the card was just mentioned to prove it works at this now.
“I say that the OS X of mac now incorporates many features that are 3rd party add ons (hardware and soft) for windows.”
Such as? Sherlock? Itunes? This is the worst practice of apple is to steal ideas of third third party developers and bundle it. This forces MS to bundle movie maker (etc) and then MS gets criticised for bundling.. this whole situation is a joke.
2) You don’t stop bitching about some feature OS X doesn’t have, while Windows had it for years ha ha ha!
3) Then you say it is only possible with the x86 architecture (you haven’t forgotten that OS X doesn’t run on that architecture have you?).
Actually i didnt mean to post so much about windows cause this is an OSX artical.. im going to try keep my posts to topic.. its just hard to resist replying when ppl have replied to my post.
The fact is in some ways linux is ahead, in some OSX and in some windows. What is bogus is that OSX is more advanced than every other operating system.. its not it lacks in some ways just like windows.
Coreaudio dosent bring anything over what win2k has now. Thats the truth and any amount of superhype wont change that.
3) I never said it wasnt possible.. i asked.. i know the x86 can do it but i dunno if the g4 can. Can the G4 mark pages as read only to a kernal level process ?
I never mentioned driver protection. Im talking about the WDM driver model itself. WDM are the only kernal mode drivers with memmory protection.. this is made possible by the x86 achitecture.
I was wondering what on earth you were on about so I had a look on the MS site and WDM drives usually use Kernel mode which is described in part as follows
From Microsoft Kernel mode allows full, unprotected access to the system. A driver or thread running in kernel mode has access to system memory and hardware.
So no, kernel mode drivers do not have any extra memory protection and are as such no more stable.
As far as I know the only way to do this would be to put the drives outside the kernel – i.e. use a micro kernel but this can have performance problems, OS X uses the Mach micro kernel (although I guess it’s changed a lot since it first appeared in the 80’s).
this is made possible by the x86 achitecture Memory protection is made possible by using a MMU which has been a stard feature in most CPUs since the 1980s. My 68030 Amiga has an MMU.
Do you know something about the WDM driver model that even Miscrosoft don’t ???
hehe its rather confusing.. but ill paste the whole paragraph
http://www.winntmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=7486&pg=2
Win2K debuts several features that prevent, avoid, and resolve system crashes. In NT 4.0, device drivers can modify, or write to, any part of kernel-mode memory. Device drivers and the NT kernel reside in kernel-mode memory, which creates the possibility that an errant driver can corrupt another driver or the OS. With the aid of a processor’s memory management unit (MMU), Win2K marks as write-protected the drivers’ and OS image’s code portions. If an errant driver attempts to modify these portions of kernel memory, the Win2K Memory Manager immediately detects the violation, and an administrator or developer can then easily identify the faulty driver.
Read it carefully.. at first after reading your post i thought id pasted something wrong.. Its saything that *drivers* wont be able to corrupt kernal memory…
thats kernal level process.. having memory protection.
Glenn
“I say that the OS X of mac now incorporates many features that are 3rd party add ons (hardware and soft) for windows.”
Your previous posts were talking about an audio card weren’t they?
And further into your recent posts,I was referring to OS X audio.
Not sherlock, etc.
Quit projecting.
And,further into yerposts, I was talking OS X not OS 9.
I love it when you throw in all these points.
The very weird thing is no one has bashed or even critised windows here 9(re audio or anything else).
you have a very strange way of bashing OS X.
I no more am interested.
I just use it and enjoy it.
“I say that the OS X of mac now incorporates many features that are 3rd party add ons (hardware and soft) for windows.”
I meant that solely for the core audio portion of OS X. Sorry if it wasn’t clear.
Whats the Add on? What did u mean ?? What addons are required to windows.. my argument was that whats in coreaudio is in windows and was written by MS. MLan and firwire are marketing hype.. firewire audio works right now under windows even at under 5 ms, mLAN was due out for windows and mac 2 years ago. Its not my fault that they are so pathetic, they have gotten nowhere and so now peer with mac to get some much needed publicity for it. To claim macosx is better cause it supports mlan, is pointless.. what difference does it make its just a driver, its like saying MAcosx supports gf4 and pcs dont(think about it for a sec Macs come default with the gf4 driver cause they come with mx.. but u can buy windows without the gf4 driver therefor its not by default in the OS ). Windows supports all the audio formats and mlan support in operating system (Is this what your talking about by 3rd party?) is nothing more than a sticker for some publicity nothing that will add any real performance benefit. Both will use a driver… so what. No OS changes are required.
The reason i went on about sherlock is cause they stole watson, and itunes is because they (once again didnt write the software).. i was confused i couldnt see what 3rd party add ons they bundle with osx that isnt in windows. (esp in terms of audio)
Im glad u use and love osx.
i never said you shouldnt. Many why do ppl take it so personally.. i was talking about just 1 feature that windows has that macosx dosent and everyone claims foul and says that im a troll and that thell never read any of my posts. Way to have an open mind guys.