“There have been a lot of rumors lately from ‘unconfirmed’ sources about Leopard’s expected ship date. For a while, everyone was sure it was going to ship mid-to-late March. Then mysteriously, the ship date (according to these anonymous sources) got shifted to mid-April – perhaps because we are already in late March. Oops. Developers who work closely with Apple have been dying to tell the world how very, very wrong we all are. We have always maintained an air of skepticism regarding the early release speculations, but confirmation of these suspicions have been bombarding us lately. Our sources have told Ars that there is very little chance (‘and that would be pushing it’) for Leopard to ship in late April – that is, if Apple wants to ship with a halfway stable operating system.”
This is news? I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple announced it next month at NAB and then didn’t ship it until June or so. Judging from the screenshots at ThinkSecret et al, Leopard is far from finished.
I get the impression that Apple is doing to much right now.
OSX for Mac/Intel, for Mac/PPC, for Apple TV, and for iPhone. All have to be production quality. That’s a lot of work.
I haven’t read any reports that Apple was increasing its OSX staff significantly (these kinds of news usually become public like it was the case with Final Cut staff helping Aperture staff) so basicly a team the same size as ever has to do much more.
Everybody always talks about all the talent that Google brings in, but it is Amazing what Apple gets done with so few employees.
I am convinced that the company is run by genetically engineered super-mice and the people are just the face of the company.
I really doubt the new hardware is putting much strain on the OS team. If the version of OS X included with Apple TV is any indication, there’s not a huge difference except at the GUI level. The OS X on Apple TV pretty much lives in Front Row, and the iPhone lives in Dashboard.
I think they may be stretching the term “OS X” a little. Although I do believe that they are probably running most of the same APIs on both of the devices (Core Video / Core Animation). The real proof of the pudding is if they’re using the Darwin kernel, because if they are – Apple will have to (eventually) release the source code, or relevant changes for iPhone/TV compatibility.
Why do they have to release the source code ? Is Darwin not on a BSD like license ?
You are both wrong.
Darwin is based on BSD licensed code, but Darwin itself is Apple Public Source License. Apple can choose which parts of the core Darwin OS are released as open source.
Apple doesn’t have to release a lot of sources, but they do anyway. LLVM is open source under a BSD license, but Apple will contribute their improvements to the community: http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/llvmdev/2007-January/007813.html
You are both wrong.
Darwin is based on BSD licensed code, but Darwin itself is Apple Public Source License. Apple can choose which parts of the core Darwin OS are released as open source.
Read parent again:
Is Darwin not on a BSD like license ? (emphasis mine)
The APSL can be said to be BSD-like, although it is a bit more restrictive.
The APSL ist not BSD-like. The APSL has more in common with the LGPL as it requires modifications to be open source as well (see §2.2c).
> I really doubt the new hardware is putting much strain on the OS team.
Yeah right. Porting an OS to another architecture (ARM), making apps fit to the small screen (usability wise), etc. is a piece of cake…
You’re assuming that the code is so badly written that they have to virtually re-write everything for each architecture.
Lets remember folks, when they made the transition to x86, the lead programmer stated that when writing MacOS X – they wrote all the software they had with platform independence (using non-architecture specific tweaks) in their software.
Alot of the time, with programming, it isn’t necessarily the size of the team which dictates sucess or failure – one only needs to look at Microsoft and their products; what dictates sucess is whether you have a good manager, a team of dedicated programmers who are given enough leverage to make decisions independent of the beuacracy in large companies which normally slows down decision making.
Its all about triage, focus and priorities; and up to management and staff to allocate resources into areas according to priority and likelihood of success rather than following fancy free, pie in the sky dreams which end up sucking up money and never resulting in a shipping product – Winfs being a prime example of “R&D for the sake of R&D”; it make tickle your fancy, but if the R&D doesn’t result in a product which brings in cash, its a waste of time and resources.
> You’re assuming that the code is so badly written that they have to
> virtually re-write everything for each architecture.
No, I don’t. Don’t put words in my mouth.
> Lets remember folks, when they made the transition to x86, the lead
> programmer stated that when writing MacOS X – they wrote all the
> software they had with platform independence
If you think that even with a portable code base an OS port to a new architecture gets done by itself, you’re plain wrong.
Look at the quality the first OS X 10.4 developer release for Intel had. There’s a huge difference between “it compiles and somehow runs” and production quality. It took Apple ca. 5 years to make a production quality Mac OS from the OPENSTEP base. If I had thought that Apple had to rewrite everything for the iPhone, the ARM port had to happen 5 years ago.
No, Apple didn’t need 5 years for the iPhone port, but an additional port takes additional resources — even more to put it up to produtcion quality.
“Spring 2007”
That’s what Apple said on WWDC ’06. The rest are simply rumor sites predicting it for “tomorrow!”. No… wait… next week for sure!. (later) Our insiders tell us there have been unexpected delays! Ready next month, confirmed!
If they miss the June launch, or don’t have a RC by mid/late May then there would be evidence of “delays”.
Exactly. “Spring” doesn’t mean “exactly on March 21st”. “Spring” is “anywhere from March 21st through June 21st”.
Sit tight, kids. Chances are we’ll see it closer to WWDC.
Gosh, it’ll be done when it’s done, okay?
Clearly a lot of sites have to keep the ad revenue going to feed the kids or something. (but replace “Kids” with “The BMW”)
Does it really make a difference when this is released ? im not sure of all the new features but from what i have heard so far, none is making me itchy waiting for this new install, 10.4.9 is plenty fine enough just now imho.. sure dtrace (if its provided), spaces and zfs (gui or no gui) will be nice to play with but is the rest really worth all the chatter ? i dont think so ….. To be honest im more than happy to wait until the end of the year as long as they give the best OS possible with no cut corners, spaces had better be at least as good as the gnome workspaces, or ill be very disappointed ….
Clearly you’re not interested in developing Cocoa and ObjC 2.0 applications.
Correct .. im a user …..
You’ll care when the developers release those OpenGL 2 accelerated games, Core Text/Core Animation, etc., applications, etc.
Yes and by that time ill have Leopard ! The games i doubt, as i have an Xbox360 and Wii and care not for MacBook gaming !
Well, it does make a difference when Leopard is released if you want to buy a new computer with Leopard pre-installed–it means waiting that much longer to buy the computer.
Right now I tell everyone who’s considering buying a Mac, “wait until they release the new version of the OS this Spring.” But some people are quite impatient to buy their new computer, especially if I were to tell them “just wait until Fall, it turns out I was wrong”.
Of course, this is exactly why Apple doesn’t put out *too* much press about Leopard before it’s ready. They don’t want the general populace to be discouraged from buying a shiny new Mac *now*. They know that as soon as word gets out that the current version of OS X is soon to be outdated, people might decide to impulse-buy a Vista PC instead of waiting to buy a Mac.
This is all the more reason for Apple to try to bring Leopard out sooner rather than later. I’d say the end of June is just about the latest that Apple should release Leopard if they want to be able to cash in on the back-to-school marketing season.
I’d rather wait for a bug free release of Leopard than getting one that acts like a beta release. Also the delay will most likely cause Apple and it’s authorized resellers to offer system buyers a free upgrade Leopard when it is released so as to not decrease Mac sales. This would be no different than how Dell and HP were offering for a short time free Windows Vista upgrade coupons for early system purchases due to Microsoft delaying Vista’s release.
Also the delay will most likely cause Apple and it’s authorized resellers to offer system buyers a free upgrade Leopard when it is released so as to not decrease Mac sales.
Hmm, I wasn’t aware that Apple did that. Cool.
Well, to be fair, they’ve always done this when they announced a ship date for Leopard and an upgrade process for those that bought machines from that point on that had a previous OS still on it.
I don’t see how apple operates like this.
If they had any sense about them, they would be selling all new macs now with a free upgrade (or charge $10 for shipping) to leopard.
I’m waiting for leopard too. It will be my first Mac if I get it. All this time between now and when it is released I am looking at Linux compatible Dell laptops. OSX isn’t something that I need, but if I get it, I’ll wait a few months to get the latest. I’d be happy with a laptop that just works with Windows and Linux too.
Apparently well enough to make $1B last quarter.
Re: “is the rest really worth all the chatter?”
For some yes. I’ll be upgrading to take advantage of true 64-bit support and Core Animation.
http://www.windows-now.com/blogs/robert/archive/2007/03/23/os-x-leo…
*Very* interesting read.
If by interesting you mean idiotic then yes.
I am lauging so hard I can hardly breathe. Then I read the linked artcles from the blog, and things get even more hilarious. I needed a good chuckle.
Unreal. I make a post with a link and get modded down 2 points to 0? For a link?
Wow, who did you p__s off? The linked blog was on topic, albeit wild and bizarre speculation, but the parent article here is speculation. If anyone read the linked blog they would have found the guys ravings came from smoe more legitimate sources.
Whho ever modded you down needs a “time out”.
“The linked blog was on topic, albeit wild and bizarre speculation”
Hence why I said “interesting.” It was simply an interesting opinion, and certainly more believable
I’ll give the trolls something to mod down with this comment: Say anything even remotely negative about Macs and watch the frothing at the mouth Apple zealots come out of the word work. God bless ’em for being truly inspired by what they believe in (Macs) but damn me if the root of all zealotry is nothing more than plain ol’ insecurity.
Btw, I’m a Mac user (for my none work related computing needs at least). Have been since OS7. For me it’s nothing more than a tool. If in fact they are holding off for Vista support, I say kudos…users like me will be most appreciative.
apple doesn’t want to make a microsoft
“Apple doesn’t want to make a Microsoft”
No, they’ve done FAR worse…
Anyone here know what Apple did during their latest Firmware update to all Intel Macs?
If you have a copy of XP or Vista laying around (for the PC someone *else* in your family likes using, of course), pop it in. Reboot. Hold down ‘C’.
Be amazed…
Your Intel Mac is now *nothing* more than a PC that can run MacOS X.
Any guesses as to why Leopard may be being delayed? Possibly to make it run on *ALL* PC’s?
Those of us who are the die-hard Mac faithful (“We don’t do Windows!”), we have been betrayed by Steve Jobs and Apple in the worst possible way. Not only are our “Macs” no longer ANY different from a regular PC, they boot Windows natively, JUST like a regular PC!
Those of you who are closet Wintel users who secretly want all Intel Macs to turn into “Apple PC’s”, your dream has come true. No longer is there ANYTHING stopping PC users from erasing EVERY trace of MacOS X from your computer and making it a full-blown Windows/Linux/whatever box. If your OS has the drivers… your Mac needn’t be a Mac any longer!
XP still requires BootCamp to at least get the proper drivers from Apple first (assuming you can’t get them elsehow), but not so with Vista.
Some of you may not care one way or the other. Others of you, like me, may be enraged that this is the level Steve Jobs/Apple have stooped to. Frankly, right about now, I couldn’t care less if Steve Jobs left Apple, Steve Jobs was kicked out of Apple, or Apple ceased to exist 20 seconds from now. As far as I’m concerned, Apple is simply just another consumer product company, like Sony, JVC, Dell, etc.
…and one I don’t plan to buy computers from ever again…
Edited 2007-03-26 19:47
All I can say in reply to Luposian is, this weekend when someone mentioned that since the last firmware update, Windows would just boot and install without bootcamp, I inserted a 98 Boot CD I made long time ago into the Mac Mini Core Duo 1.66 and held down C and it booted to a DOS prompt which is the way I made the CD. I ran Fdisk, zapped the partitions, then Rebooted holding the the mouse to eject the CD, inserted a Vista RC2 DVD, Held C it booted right up, choose the blank Hard Drive, made the 76GB partition and off went the install. After it rebooted there was Vista. It went on to find all drivers needed right in Vista. So what I have here is a Mac Mini Core DUO with Vista and NO Bootcamp. I did not activate it as I do not plan on keeping it that way, but wanted to see if I was told the truth. I was. XP did the same thing but needed drivers after the install.
Edited 2007-03-26 22:02
June. This article is pointless. I think everyone knows it won’t be here until then.
speculation of delay because of vista is stupid. You can run vista on bootcamp now – yea it has some issues but then again there are issues running XP on bootcamp NOW (I.E. screensaver doesn’t kick in). Plus Apple does not want to support Windows period.
Try calling Apple tech support running XP via bootcamp on a Mac…
Does the Mac start ?
Did bootcamp start ?
Fine, your Mac is working, now for any XP support…. Phone Microsoft
If Apple changes from Mach to FreeBSD for Leopard, this may account for the “major surprise” due from Apple and the fact that the preseeds have been unstable. It would also explain how MacOS X runs on the ARM-based iPhone given that FreeBSD has ARM support.
The Mach runtime isn’t disappearing. Apple already leverages much from FreeBSD. OS X has way fat support for various chip architectures. Whether it’s ARM, x86, ppc, 68k, etc., the kernel is incredibly portable.
June is still spring, you know…
June is actually summer.
They have 21 days in June before summer.
They have 21 days in June before summer.
Only if you’re reckoning via astromony.
Traditional and meteorological reckonings place June firmly in summer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season#Four_Seasons
In the United States, where Apple is based, the astronomical reckoning of seasons is used. Given the announcement and the company both originated in the U.S. it seems reasonable to say that by Apple’s announcement was based on said reckoning. So June 21st sees like a reasonable intent on the deadline.
The entirety of US Calendars say the first day of June is between June 19th and June 23rd…. Since Apple is largely a producer of US used PC’s (their popularity elsewhere isn’t nearly as high, except a few hot spots) I think we can safely go by the US calendars.
June is most definitely, predominately, a spring month. I’ll stick with the calendars like everyone else, thanks.
The entirety of US Calendars say the first day of June is between June 19th and June 23rd…. I think we can safely go by the US calendars.
If they say that the first day of june is between june 19th and june 23rd, I don’t think that we can trust these calendars.
“June is still spring, you know…”
Indeed.
Summer goes from approx. June 21 to approx. Sept 21.
However, colloquially speaking, in the US Summer goes from around May 31 (Memorial Day weekend) to around Sept 1 (Labor Day weekend). That is what is what the public thinks of as “summertime”. Companies know that, so they announce “Spring” and “Summer” as release periods, knowing that the public will take that as one month (actually 21 days) earlier than what is really meant.
It’s quite clever as it makes a product *seem* closer to release than it really is, while giving the company approximately one extra month of development time, so they can say, “We still made the release date!” This is especially common in the video games biz.
Edited 2007-03-24 18:06
This is the only interesting piece of news…
No more Saft, PithHelmet or other fun stuff.