“If you use a traditional desktop like GNOME or KDE, a keyboard-controlled desktop with a minimum of utilities may seem like stepping back 10 or 15 years in the history of interface design. Why bother, when traditional desktops are easy to use and RAM and disk space are so cheap nowadays?” On a related note, there is a new release of xmonad, a tiling window manager for X, written in Haskell. It now has full Xinerama and XRandR support, so you can add, remove, or rotate monitors on the fly.
i’m glad to see that tiling wms and alternative window mangers are gaining in popularity. there is more out there than kde, gnome, xfce, *box.
It is interesting to see at least 3 articles about tiling window manager lately on OsNews. This conincides with my recent switch to Ion. When I was using traditional WMs, I always maximize almost every window, except XMMS and a few others, and use keyboard shortcuts as much as possible. So Ion feels like designed for me
And with its tiling ability, I can split the whole screen into certain “frames”, without manually arranging the windows, and without wasting any screen real estate. Furthermore, for programs don’t work well in tiling style, I can put them into a seperate traditional floating style workspace. Simply put, it is very powerful, no-nonsense and productive! I love it! Would like to try other tiling WMs when I have time.
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It is interesting to see at least 3 articles about tiling window manager lately on OsNews. This conincides with my recent switch to Ion. When I was using traditional WMs, I always maximize almost every window, except XMMS and a few others, and use keyboard shortcuts as much as possible. So Ion feels like designed for me
And with its tiling ability, I can split the whole screen into certain “frames”, without manually arranging the windows, and without wasting any screen real estate. Furthermore, for programs don’t work well in tiling style, I can put them into a seperate traditional floating style workspace. Simply put, it is very powerful, no-nonsense and productive! I love it! Would like to try other tiling WMs when I have time.
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Keyboard oriented desktop are a must for, by example, my parents… My mother is not happy using the mouse and with a keyboard oriented desktop, she could have a list like:
– Type S to open the shell
– Type konqueror to run the web browser
– Type F to select the address
– Type google to open the navigator
– Press “1” to go to the search zone
etc.
It seems to be more intuitive and easier than “go to the blue K with the mouse, left click, select this, go with the mouse to …”
‘It seems to be more intuitive and easier than “go to the blue K with the mouse, left click, select this, go with the mouse to …”‘
You’re mentioning an aspect that you usually encounter when you need to instruct somebody. Today’s manuals are full of pictures (like the books children “read”), but often reality looks a bit different and people find it hard to recognize what to do.
Giving a list of commands is usually easier. Just say: “Enter this in a terminal window and it will do the job”, instead of describing the “pictures” on the “TV” leading the individual step by step.
Even older individuals, such as my grandma, who used typewriters (I’m talking about the real ones!) for many years, seem to feel more comfortable with the keys because they know about their never changing location and are able to connect them (in mind) to certain actions, depending on possible shifting modes (Ctrl, Alt, Meta) or combinations (Compose).
As you might know from powerful X systems, the middle mouse button can be used to copy & paste commands from the mail client to the console window.
I had an issue with my uncle yesterday, I needed him to do “pciconf -lv | less”, but he could not – under any circumstances – get the “|” sign. He missed the key where this character should be created with. So I was glad to tell him hitting the Scroll Lock key in order to see more of the diagnostic messages.
Keyboards rock! Sun Type 6 USB, IBM 1391403 and 1391865 here. 🙂
They’re not obsoleted by GUIs, no, they can make them more powerful. WindowMaker and .xmodmaprc are your friends.
Finally, I’d like to add a psychological aspekt: While using the mouse requires more attention (motoric control – very precise, depending on the mouse’s quality -, sensomotoric control for the eyes and sensoric processing from the eyes), the use of the keyboard does not require that much (just motoric activation relying on learned motoric programs). You don’t even need to look at the screen because you can be sure that the desired action (character occuring, dialog window opened, program closed etc.) has been done.
Edited 2007-06-01 21:49
I thought I didn’t post it successfully, so I did it again. Could somebody please delete one of them? Thanks!
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Ah, the joys of posting with elinks.
Real men use telnet.
I like tile managers too. But a couple things irk me. The main thing is that the keyboard kungfu is almost always based on vi. I really don’t care for vi, plus what if I use a Dvorak keyboard?
You can reconfigure them.
Just read the documentation.
i use wmii with dvorak and it works fine. i swapped my caps lock and ctrl though. and wmii is supposed to be more like emacs than vi from what i understand. don’t actually use vi myself, but i do use emacs.
I changed the configuration of wmii so that the keyboard controls are more like the editor Joe and the GNU terminal program screen, ie type Ctrl+Q then the key of the command you want. It’s the only way I would have continued using it since I also use the programs screen and joe all day.
Thanks for uploading this, it gave me something to read on my lunch break.
————————
DVD Software
http://www.hotdvdtools.com
I mostly use the mouse for drawing, for the rest LaunchBar (or Quicksilver or Butler whatever you prefer) and for most applications I use the (thankfully cross-app) consistent keyboard shortcuts.
I could go as far as accessing the dock and button bars with the keyboard, but who needs those anyway if you already have shortcuts for all important functions?
I use dwm.
xbindkeys to map shortcut keys for opening my most used applications(firefox, xterm, irssi, nano) and dmenu for all my less used ones.
For basic window navigation and application launching the keyboard is optimal.
But there are many things that the mouse does very well:
– Selecting text for copy/paste
– navigating websites(most aren’t designed for keyboard usage)
“
”
I do agree with what you’re saying however I find the keyboard much more precise for selecting text than the mouse (as you suggest).
Using the keyboard you can select several words /and/ parts of the word. With the mouse most software only allows you to select several words /or/ parts of a word. (eg with a mouse you couldn’t select “ith the mouse most softwa” from my sentence above)
I just selected the part you said I could not with the mouse, so I don’t understand your argument to disfavor it. really.
I could do it too.
This is not a problem with the rodent device itself. I think the only place you’ll see it is in Microsoft Word, which tries to be “intelligent” with its mouse input handling. It can be very frustrating when you wanted to cut/copy from the middle of a word to the end of the sentence, and Word insists that you must have all or nothing…
Please don’t use C-syntax like == in normal conversation, it’s just silly.
It’s a bad example, but the poster is correct – keyboard shortcuts generally are significantly faster/more precise for working with text. The text manipulation keyboard shortcuts are one of the few aspects of Windows that is actually clever (and, predictably enough, appears to be there solely as a hold-over from the DOS days). E.g., hold Ctrl and press the right/left arrow – the cursor jumps forward/backward by one word. Or the home/end keys, which take you to the beginning/end of a line – or to the beginning/end of a document, if modified with Ctrl. And all of those actions can be further modified by holding down the Shift key (E.g., Ctrl-Shift-Right Arrow or Shift-End) to select text in the same way.
And they need to include a pony with every purchase. ( 97 )
Hmm…
http://osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=17995&comment_id=244830
http://osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=17991&comment_id=244831
http://osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=18011&comment_id=244832
http://osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=18009&comment_id=244833
Looks like someone forgot to take his anti-psychotic medication today.
http://www.osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=17976&comment_id=243165
Dont worry Its not me , you will se what I am driving at real soon.
So you utterly missed the point of a sarcastic comment made more than a week ago, and now you’re obsessing over it?
Guess I must have hit a nerve, eh?
“So you utterly missed the point”
No , there was no point being made on your behalf. I even explained why you made such a comment.
“and now you’re obsessing over it? ”
no obsession at all on my part , you seem to think its ok for you to do something but other cant do the same … Life is so unfair to the poor victimized person like you 😉
“Guess I must have hit a nerve, eh?”
Nope , but your already crying I hate to see what will it be later on …
Ah, I see – you missed the point so completely that you didn’t even realize there was a point. That almost requires willful stupidity.
Riiiight. So you went out of your way to post 4 nearly-identical replies within 5 minutes, in unrelated threads. The only possible options you’ve left is that you’re a) dumb as a post, or b) batshit insane.
So which is it, mate?
“Ah, I see ”
No …
“you missed the point so completely”
There was/is no point from your behalf.
“that you didn’t even realize there was a point.”
That’s your problem even after showing you that there is no point you still debate there was/is one , you want a pony you go to a stable you don’t use it in a computer offer. Your so lost that you cant figure your not on a pony site …
“That almost requires willful stupidity. ”
There was/is on your part …
“Riiiight.”
We established you don’t know what is right from wrong … You wont admit to it , so you will be subjected to it until you get it …
“So you went out of your way to post 4 nearly-identical replies within 5 minutes”
No , I just pressed on your name , your comment list popped up and I did the same thing you did , I am just less lazy it seem.
“in unrelated threads.”
They are all related to the comment made. That’s your point isn’t. I disagree , but it seem you need more example.
“The only possible options you’ve left is that you’re a) dumb as a post, or b) batshit insane.”
Limited minds have limited options , two letters in the alphabet. Projecting your own probelm on to me , now that’s not really nice.
“So which is it, mate?”
I got the heart of the flying Dutchman in a box , so I got the control !
Since your on the hum an heu yes no yes no mode. I will let you run and pounder on your next scare.
Really, you mean this isn’t equestriannews.com?
Uh huh. Shoes for industry, compadre.
As a great man once said, I’d give you a parachute if I thought it wouldn’t open.
“you mean this isn’t equestriannews.com? ”
There not going to give you a pony on another news site either …
“Uh huh. Shoes for industry, compadre. ”
When the fool learns the Way, He laughs at it.
Yet if the fool did not laugh at it,
It would not be the Way.
Indeed, if you are seeking the Way,
Listen for the laughter of fools.
“As a great man once said, I’d give you a parachute if I thought it wouldn’t open.”
American comedian are not great man , they are funny man.
You might want to have your irony-detector looked at, it appears to be badly broken.
Uh huh… so it’s narcissistic personality disorder that you’re afflicted with, then?
Does it require conscious effort to write that badly? Even complete novice ESL students learn not to make those sorts of laughably-basic mistakes after a month or two.
“You might want to have your irony-detector looked at”
You already answered that as something else … memory problems ?
“so it’s narcissistic personality disorder that you’re afflicted with, then?”
No , but you seem to like to trow diagnosis names as if you think you knew what you where talking about , are you affected by one and think everyone is ?
“Does it require conscious effort to write that badly?”
Sorry , there is no error there , but then english don’t seem to be your force.
“Even complete novice ESL students learn not to make those sorts of laughably-basic mistakes after a month or two.”
Then I guess ESL student according to you are better at writing english then I am , I Mastered english at the same time as I did French and I use it without any problem daily. But how can my writing skill be the problem when I copy pasted your reply ?
The irony seem to be that you can’t take a sarcastic reply returned to you in the same fashion you offered it in the language you used to deliver it.
I guess it was truly a personnal attack because your unable to defend or oppose an opinion because you somehow feel inadequate toward me.
You passed the a hum heu no stage and are now at the you can’t wirte stage. That’s not really an improvement on you rpart.
For someone who run , I seem to be directly in your face wouldn’t you say ?
And it still hasn’t sunk in, apparently.
Translation: “I know you are, but what am I?” That was pretty weak.
A fifth grader could point out the errors in that sentence – you can’t even figure out the difference between plural and singular nouns. Are you willfully-obtuse, or do you come by that level of ignorance honestly?
I hope that the capital “M” you used in “Mastered” isn’t meant to imply some sort degree. Because if it does, you should ask for you money back.
Reading comprehension is not a big strength of yours either, is it?
“And it still hasn’t sunk in, apparently. ”
No , it as not sunk in , but I guess you don’t see the point being made. You still want your pony …
“Translation: “I know you are, but what am I?” That was pretty weak. ”
English to english … definitively not translation , I guess that’s part of why you don’t get the point being made.
“A fifth grader could point out the errors in that sentence”
I guess you need a fifth grader to explain it to you then.
“you can’t even figure out the difference between plural and singular nouns. ”
A noun is a word used to name a person, animal, place, thing, and abstract idea. Nouns are usually the first words which small children learn.
American comedian are not great man , they are funny man. is the quote I wrote.
You probably wanted to see : American comedians are not great mens , they are funny mens. But then that would be a sentence.
“Are you willfully-obtuse, or do you come by that level of ignorance honestly?”
I am neither ignorant nor obtuse. But I am willful and honest.
“I hope that the capital “M” you used in “Mastered” isn’t meant to imply some sort degree.”
No , its called an education , you do the work , they hand them to you afterwards.
“Because if it does, you should ask for you money back. ”
Would be hard to do that , I don’t have *you* money and it was a full scholarship. What can I say they must know me less then you do. Also in education english is of no real importance unless your area of study is english.
“Reading comprehension is not a big strength of yours either, is it?”
No , that would be your problem , me I don’t have a problem , I am making a point do.
I can’t wait to see what you will describe me as next , no really , me , in the views of … , is my favorite subject.
For some reason, I’m suddenly reminded of the word “sar-chasm,” aka the apparently-large divide between you and anyone capable of grasping simple irony/sarcasm.
No, it was Moulinneufish to English.
It’s obvious you didn’t write the above paragraph, since it’s actually coherent and grammatically-correct – and it doesn’t even have your standard punctuation errors (proper period at the end, instead of your trademark misplaced-ellipsis). And look what Google turned up in about 5 seconds:
http://www.arts.uottawa.ca/writcent/hypergrammar/nouns.html
So did you copy that word-for-word from the University of Ottawa’s website, or did you find another page to plaigarize?
So far you’ve managed every variation except for the correct one – that’s impressive. But since you are so painfully clueless, I’ll be generous and offer a free clue: in the plural it’s “funny men,” not “funny man” – and it sure as hell isn’t “funny mens,” since “mens” isn’t even a word.
I’m afraid so, chum. Either you’re too stupid to recognize the obvious errors, or you’re just refusing to recognize them. In other words, ignorant or obtuse. So which is it?
Congratulations, you found a typo. I guess that answers my question above: if you can spot that, but you can’t see the dozens of errors you make in every post, then the only possible conclusion is that you’re deliberately obtuse.
Riiiight. Was it issued by the Special Olympics, by any chance?
That is perhaps one of the most profoundly idiotic statements I have ever read. So you apparently work in a field where you never have to use written communication? Or write anything for publication? Because if not, I truly pity your colleagues.
You are making a point do what?
I was actually being sarcastic when I suggested you have narcissistic personality disorder comment, but it’s starting to look like that was an accurate call.
I agree fully. But some of it is actually older than MS-DOS, borrowed from the “terminals” that were used before personal computers and, then, graphical interfaces became common.
As I see it, the most productive combination would be lots of standardized and fast keyboard commands coupled with a pen, that inherently would give a much better precision than the quite unatural mouse. The pen would be used for the few kinds of tasks (such as free hand drawing) that really cannot be done by keys only.
Strangely enough, many unix/linux fans for a long period of time (the last 20 years or so) seemed to prefer text-based interfaces (such as “terminal windows”) but still using a mouse. More or less the worst of two worlds IMHO…
Don’t take this the wrong way – I hate MS too – I just like some of their conventions
Ah, that’s interesting – I had always had the impression that that particular “style” of keyboard shortcuts was original to Microsoft apps. Although, I’ll admit that impression was largely based on the contrast with the EMACS or vi style of keyboard shortcuts for text manipulation.
Looks like someone needs to implement a security feature on the register section.
On topic: I think the simplified interfaces are very interesting. I hope that the concept can be modernized more yet keep its simplicity. Also make it easier for people to get into and remove some of the steeper learning curves. Then again maybe I am too easily confused
Edited 2007-06-01 05:36
I’ve added more keyboard power to Windows by installing slimKEYS, a nice hotkey manager. To launch an application, I don’t click on Start and try to find the app in the huge list; I just press Win+Space to launch slimLAUNCH, and then start typing (‘no’ = Programmer’s Notepad, ‘vs’ = Visual Studio, ‘sc’ = Screen Capture 2, …).
This has made me a lot more productive.
Good to know. Will keep that in mind.
I like this one. Launchy, http://www.launchy.net/
That’s one thing I really miss under linux. I use colibri under windows and quicksilver under OS X, but haven’t found anything equivalent under linux. If anyone knows of anything please let me know.
Did you try gmrun? It displays a simple window where you can launch applications with tab-completion. Bind it to Mod4-r or whatever floats your boat, using xbindkeys or from your window manager.
A keyboard controlled desktop is entirely possible (i’d even say awesome) in kde. Here’s is how i actually do stuff:
win+t Focus kontact
ctrl+2 Switch to the mailpart of kontact
ctrl+l Check mail
ctrl+alt+n launch konversation
win+k Focus konqueror
Ctrl+l focus addressbar
type url hit enter
Either:
Ctrl Shows 40 small indicators on the 40 first links on the page so that i can hit the corresponding key to open the link
Or:
Hit the ‘ key and type in the text in the link, F3 to cycle
(That’s right, mouseless browsing)
alt+f2 opens run-dialog, start a new program (always faster than going to the K menu if you know what program you want)
Almost all controls in normal apps are accessible through alt+key shortbuts aswell.
This is just an example of how my workflow is, i rarely if ever use the mouse. At school i always get comments on ‘movie like’ it looks when i just hit keys on the keyboard and things happen that would normally need to be controlled by mouse.
Granted, things aren’t perfect in kde, probably half of my 40 kde bugreports are keyboard related, but things are a lot better than what i have been able to accomplish on gnome. With the input action kcontrol thing, dcop and window specific rules-controlled keyboard shortcuts are amazing.
Once your used to hitting win+key to switch between apps you never want to go back to alt+tab or expose, they are just to slow.
Edited 2007-06-01 09:49
If you are using IceWM with the task you can hit hit the metakey+spacebar and type commands right into the taskbar. Makes it breezes to open apps.
For all the keyboard loving people here, I can recommend to try http://vimperator.mozdev.org, a extension to make Firefox behave like vim to be fully keyboard accessible.
Maybe i should write an OSNews article about it some time.
Tried it. Cool!
Why bother, when traditional desktops are easy to use and RAM and disk space are so cheap nowadays?
They aren’t. For people in the western world, they might be, but for people in places like China, India, and Africa, when the monthly income is not more than 60 $USD, paying thousands of dollars for a PC with the latest CPU, RAM, and GFX 3D card is not an option. People have low-end machines, with very little ram, and (most of the time) no 3D acceleration of any fancy features. We need to look into making the most of our hardware, and we need to allow those less unfortunate than us to still enjoy most of what we enjoy on modern fast hardware.
Whenever I read about keyboard versus mouse based navigation, the bloomberg terminal software comes immediately to mind. When people first start out with this, there is almost universal fustration that something that is so hyped and expensive can appear so “clunky” and that to use effectively you have to memorise long lists of keywords and options.. but within a year of spending 50-90% of their computing time working in the environment.. most people “get it”, from the ability to manage contacts and email distributions rapidly and easily with a few strokes of the keyboard, to the fact that information, calculations and analysis are almost instant.
A good long term user Interface is not always the same as one with a short learning curve.