“Red Hat 8.0 is scheduled to be formally released on Sept. 30 and many in the Linux user community are watching the development of the new “Bluecurve” desktop design very closely. In the retail edition of Red Hat that’s coming out this Monday, the Linux vendor is replacing the traditional GNOME interface with Bluecurve, a Red Hat-created GUI theme combining elements of both GNOME and KDE, the major rival to GNOME.” Read the article at LinuxPlanet.
Preview of Red Hat 8.0: Bluecurve’s Debut
2002-09-27 Red Hat 60 Comments
“Single users” of 8.0 might range all the way from call center managers and Lotus Notes administrators to Wall Street analysts and photo editors, he illustrated. “Linux has some really cool photo editing apps.”
Photo editing apps? really? Where? at gimp.org? LOL. (I hope he doesn’t expect people to dump their Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro in favour for GIMP because he would be dissapointed.
Red Hat is also offering a wide gamut of mail clients. Aside from updated editions of the Sendmail and Samba clients, choices include Konqueror; Kmail; Galeon; Ximian Evolution
Since when Samba, Konqueror, and Galeon are mail clients?
In GNOME’s default configuration, Red Hat uses Mozilla instead of Galeon.
No suprise, since Galeon 2.0 isn’t even alpha yet.
Besides, the title of the LinuxPlanet article is about Bluecurve, but instead talked about Red Hat’s strategy. It is like opening a URL with a title about Aqua, and reading about Apple’s latest strategy…..
I’d have to agree with you.
But since I’ve used the betas I’d have to say that the usability and functionality is A+. It’s all integrated in a way that makes it fast and simple. Mandrake tends to make it even hard to navigate your menu.
Not to bug pro Mandrake people (i’m using 9.0 right now). But RH has better usability. Then again Mandrake makes linux feel a little bit more survivable.
I think they should adopt the changes Eugenia suggested in regards to the GUI.
I probably will draw fire for this, but I think RH has actually done both communities a favour with unifying the desktop (says he who dumped RH for SuSE a while back because they were at the time forcing Gnome down my throat). Once it’s proven it can be done I personally think the argument about theirs or ours is proven to be waffle. From an end user point of view it’s always been a hindrance that choices were one way. If those communities could decide what points they share and work on that instead of concentrate on where they’re different only (and argue incessantly about it) it would benefit both. Come on guys – the reason you have about the same amount of end users is that BOTH the desktops are ace, each in their own way! Otherwise I’ll have to use Enlightenment instead (but not all my machines are powerful enough to do it justice ;-).
= P =
jbett: But since I’ve used the betas I’d have to say that the usability and functionality is A+. It’s all integrated in a way that makes it fast and simple. Mandrake tends to make it even hard to navigate your menu.
Red Hat may be very easy, and the best version released by Red Hat ever, it isn’t the most easiest to use.
Using your example, I find navigating LindowsOS 1.1 menu much easier than Red Hat.
Another thing that is hard for me is that there isn’t any configuration applet for PPPoE DSL, unlike every other distribution I have tried on my PC (I didn’t try Lindows on my PC). But the AA is good enough for me to survive its shortcomings. Plus Bluecurve is the best competitor Photon has for my personal preferences as the best looking GUI.
Alex: I think they should adopt the changes Eugenia suggested in regards to the GUI.
Most of her suggestions takes more than a patch (especially the z-snake), except for the one pixel off.
I thought Red Hat 8.0 include kernel 2.4.19. doesn’t it?
Does anyone else find it amusing that Redhat 8, if it uses 2.4.19, has onl gone up one minor version since Redhat 7.3? We are obviously deep into the periods of working on the devel kernel.
Another thing that is hard for me is that there isn’t any configuration applet for PPPoE DSL, unlike every other distribution I have tried on my PC
Yes it does. It’s in the Internet Configuration Wizard.
if you’re gonna try convence someone to switch they have to be able to retrieve their info from NTFS partitions… Mandrk 9.0 what a wonderful animal!!!
> there isn’t any configuration
> applet for PPPoE DSL
Go to “Start”–>”System Tools”–>”Internet Configuration Wizard”.
Or fire up your shell and type command: “internet-druid”.
Brandon Barker: Does anyone else find it amusing that Redhat 8, if it uses 2.4.19, has onl gone up one minor version since Redhat 7.3? We are obviously deep into the periods of working on the devel kernel.
It still got 8.0 because it broke binary compatiblity with 7.x with GCC 3.2. Besides, I don’t think people would hold off Red Hat 8.0 just because it has a minor kernel release.
Bob: Yes it does. It’s in the Internet Configuration Wizard.
I don’t know for you, but in Internet Configuration wizard, when you click on DSL, it automatically configures DHCP.
I’ll try again when I donwload 8.0 next week.
linux_baby: Or fire up your shell and type command: “internet-druid”.
Like the wizard, internet-druid couldn’t configure PPPoE for me. I had to use rpppoe to do so and connect.
I would check again as soon as I install 8.0 final. I can’t check now because I ruin my partition table by installing Debian 3.0, Lycoris and ELX back to back, forcing me to format my entire hard disk (I managed to save my music though, and important files…)
Besides, I wonder what kind of connection both linux_baby and Bob uses….
That post is completely off topic, but if the NTFS support is anything like RC1, it would be nice.
does anyone run Redhat 7.x with a Promise Ultra133 card installed? i’m looking for a little more giddy-up and with 8.0 coming i thought i might as well redo my system…
redhat’s HCL page is sparse when it comes to yes/no compatibility info…
I have a Alcatel Speedtouch Home Ethernet that somehow thinks it’s a Speedtouch Pro. (Don’t tell my provider :-))
About the internet-druid in the red hat manual:
Some DSL providers require you to configure your system to obtain an IP address through DHCP with an Ethernet card. To configure this type of connection, start Internet Druid, select Ethernet Connection, and select DHCP on the Configure Network Settings screen. Some DSL providers require you to configure a PPPoE (Point-to-Point Protocol over Ethernet) connection with an Ethernet card. To configure this type of connection, start Internet Druid, select xDSL Connection, and follow the steps in the wizard. If you must supply a username and password to connect, you are probably using PPPoE. Ask your DSL provider which method you should use.
It’s in there since 7.2. So I suppose someone would have noticed and filed a bugreport if it didn’t work. If not, file a bugreport 🙂
Way to go after technicalities and preference!
The GIMP suites most people’s needs for photo editing. Really man, do you think the large majority of Photoshop users really need all the power it provides? I’m not going to say The GIMP is anywhere near as extensive and powerful as Photoshop, but it’s not like a freakin’ paint program for God’s sake. The GIMP is a very capable app in the right hands. I guess everyone’s just been spoiled on filters and layer styles? Jesus, photo editing is not the same as creating professional-grade web graphics in minutes. Photo editing is just that, editing photos. Besides, the large majority of people with Photoshop probably wouldn’t be able to reproduce a license or proof of purchase.
Gimp is really damn powerful, just not really useable to people used to Photoshop or PSP. It not only has a ton of filters but is scriptable.
I think that the biggest hump to get over with the Gimp is the change from a monolithic gui to a multi document interface.
> I think they should adopt the changes Eugenia suggested in regards to the GUI.
I have here Red Hat 8-Psyche (I installed it last night on my AthlonXP machine – expect a review on Monday), and none of my suggestions were there.
> I thought Red Hat 8.0 include kernel 2.4.19. doesn’t it?
Well, Red Hat always have special, non-standard patches that they do to their kernels for stability. Possibly they didn’t have the time to properly test the new version of the kernel…
Also, XFree 4.2 is included, but not 4.2.1.
Can any MDK 9 users tell me if the NTFS support is RW or RO? I was under the impression that RW NTFS support was still a very dangerous proposition. Have things dramatically improved in recent months?
Even if they enabled RW, I would suggest to not use it. Use RO instead. Create a FAT32 partition and exchange files via it. FAT32 is recognized by all major OSes out there (even AtheOS and SkyOS), so it is the best way to exchange files and stuff.
I also sent in about 15 bug reports (mostly UI issues, one about the slow loading times of OpenOffice) and it seems like they are going to be looking at all of them for the next release. Did you submit bug reports to Redhat?
While I sent my reports early in the beta phase, I was pretty sure that they wouldn’t really consider them until the next release. The beta phase just seemed like a way to clean up bugs and improve minor UI issues.
> I have here Red
> Hat 8-Psyche
Some people are lucky
Has anyone been able to get Nvidia drivers to work under the Redhat betas?
Red Hat 8 comes with the generic “nv” driver, and it does not support 3D. That sucks for a supposedly “desktop OS” — as Red Hat is trying to pitch it lately — and that will be mentioned on my review. I haven’t tried recompiling the nvidia drivers, neither I will. I expect 3D to work automatically, not by messing around with compilations.
If Red Hat was not pitching this release as a “desktop solution” I wouldn’t care about the 3D, but now, I care.
I wouldnt be surprised if RedHat didn’t include nvidia’s glx “nvidia” driver. It is extremely unstable, at least on my Debian system. (Try ctrl-alt-tabbing to a console and back
NVidia should have the Redhat 8.0 RPMs up pretty soon – at least that is what I heard from other sources.
Eugenia, did Redhat give you the download edition or the full edition? I would be surprised of the full edition did not include the drivers some sort of contrib CD. The download edition usually only consists on Free (GPL, BSD, etc) software.
I have the download edition.
I have the downloaded version of Null installed and my nvidia card (geforce4 ti 4200) works perfectly. I installed the kernel source, grabbed both Nvidia source rpm’s (kernel and glx), rebuilt ’em, and installed ’em. Edited /etc/X11/XF86Config to change the driver to “nvidia” and bam! I get 6500 fps in glxgears.
I thought that no free download edition of any distro will have nvidia drivers since they are proprietary. If that’s the case, you can’t bash Null — it’s a free beta for cryin’ out loud!
I have Psyche, not Null, it is not a beta.
And at the end of the day, Netscape 4 was also proprierty, however was part of all free CDs from Red hat.
True enough. Still, it’s my impression that the Nvidia thing is a whole different thing. There was a fair amount of discussion on the limbo mailing list stating basically that since nvidia won’t open up their drivers, neither RH nor any other distribution can provide the Nvidia drivers with a free download distro. Some folks were stating that is why Linux users should support ATI or Matrox since they do provide open source drivers for the X folks (and the distributions) to work on and provide with free download editions. The “blame,” if you will, lies with Nvidia, in other words.
In any event, the free version of 8.0, just like the free versions of Mandrake 9.0, Lycoris, and all the others, will not have the nvidia drivers included. I don’t have any connection to RH, but I think I can safely make that statement. 🙂
Quoting the nVidia license
“2.1.1 Rights. Customer may install and use one copy of the SOFTWARE on a single computer, and except for making one back-up copy of the Software, may not otherwise copy the SOFTWARE. This LICENSE of SOFTWARE may not be shared or used concurrently on different computers.
2.1.2 Linux Exception. Notwithstanding the foregoing terms of Section 2.1.1, SOFTWARE designed exclusively for use on the Linux operating system may be copied and redistributed, provided that the binary files thereof are not modified in any way (except for unzipping of compressed files).”
It sounds like section 2.1.2 means that RedHat could use the driver. I too am disappointed that RedHat isn’t using nVidia’s binary driver. I do not see any problem with binary only drivers as long as companies support Linux. Heck, this is as much as they do for Windows. Everything I’ve heard seems to indicate the nVidia’s binary Linux driver is quite good. Perhaps RedHat didn’t want the driver in their server distro (resource/reliability reasons?) and didn’t want to worry about different drivers in different distros. Just a guess.
Thanks Roy. Great feedback for the upcoming review. 🙂
Interesting. If you’re right, Roy, that section 2.1.2 means the Nvidia binaries can be included in free download distributions, then why on earth don’t any of them include it? I’ve tried RH, Lycoris, Mandrake, and Libranet and not one of them included the binaries. And everything I have read from these companies in forums, mailing lists, etc. the companies say they *cannot” include the binaries in the download distros.
What’s the deal?
> then why on earth don’t any of them include it?
> What’s the deal?
May be they believe the drivers are not reliable enough and could impact system stabilty? From what I’ve seen, Red Hat is a bit “picky” when it comes to stability. They did the same with GNOME 1.4 I think. If I am not mistaken, GNOME 1.4 was out and Red Hat realesed a new version of their distro after like a month or so but they didn’t include GNOME 1.4. They instead included the old GNOME 1.2 and only later they included GNOME 1.4.? with their distro.
I think it’s all about stability.
I don’t expect reviewers here to be fair anyway but it should be said that you don’t have to recompile anything, simply download the nvidia drivers for Red Hat 8.0 once they are there and be happy. I remember doing this with Red Hat 7.3 and it was a piece of cake, just as installing this driver in Windows.
It might suck that one driver doesn’t automatically work with a newer version of Linux, but that’s the lameness of the Linux kernel not having any kind of binary compatibility for drivers, not even between minor releases or different configure options. Of course other people say it’s the lameness of Nvidia not to opensource the drivers but even if they would be opensource, they would either have to be included in every new kernel or binary packages would again have to be created for every single distribution (not supporting custom kernels). So if anyone should take the heat, it’s the Linux team.
Especially as Red Hat actually _does_ get binary packages from Nvidia for every single version which are absolutely trivial to install (download, doubleclick, reboot).
Please, feel free to point out this flaw (that 3D drivers might not be available yet but will be soon and need to be installed additionally), but please don’t get hung up on this old story and point out some real flaws of Red Hat, as I will be really curious to know how reliable it works and if it’s worth to switch to it this time.
Or maybe they’re not installed because a lot of distros don’t like including closed-source stuff. A lot of people really have a problem with how NVIDIA manages it’s drivers.
> I don’t expect reviewers here to be fair anyway
You can go and shit yourself Spark. Don’t get in my nerves once again. I am the most fair reviewer you can find coast to coast in US. And you know that. I write everything as it is, and not as fanatics/fans (like yourself) see it.
Just because you like Red Hat because it might have been your first distro or something, doesn’t mean that I should be bound by *your* views and give my asshole to Red Hat to fuck it just because they are Red Hat and they are Linux. You knocked on the wrong door pal. I TAKE ORDERS BY NO ONE.
If Red Hat does something wrong/incomplete I WILL WRITE IT, no matter if I make their PR department or yourself unhappy. This is my “job” over here. A review is a review. Whatever is not right, it WILL HAVE TO BE WRITEN FOR THE INFORMATION OF THE READER. THIS IS WHAT I DO HERE.
If you continue your stupid trolling you got lately against me because of my Gnome and Gentoo’s opinions, I will have to ask you to leave OSNews.
You have your opinion and that is fine with me. But be FAIR with *me* too. I don’t get paid over here, and to be honest I DON’T GIVE A FLYING MONKEY what Linux does, I don’t like the state of the Linux destkop as it is today. So, don’t tell me that I am not a fair reviewer. I have nothing to lose or gain by lieing to my readers. In fact I do OSNews, because of fun, and because I want my opinions to be heard. If I would lie about something, that wouldn’t be my opinion, so I don’t have any reason to do that anyway.
> Or maybe they’re not installed because a lot of distros don’t like including closed-source stuff. A lot of people really have a problem with how NVIDIA manages it’s drivers.
And I personally, AS A USER, have a problem on how Red Hat manages the drivers. Their non-inclusion or even CHOICE of install them or not, that is. That was clearly Red Hat’s call, and they failed to include 3D capabilities by default on their system, for the BIGGEST gfx maker today in the world.
Excuse me, you might call it a design decision based on ideals, but I call it a SCREW UP for a LOT of users who don’t give a damned shit about GPL. That includes myself.
Red Hat should have included the drivers on the CD and at the worst case they should ask the user upon installation if they want the 3D drivers installed or not.
As long as the driver part is less than 1 % of your review, I think it is ok.
i’d like to defend gimp a bit here…
i’ve been using photoshop since 1994,…starting on a mac quadra 950. i’d like to think that i have the fundamentals down pretty well.
that being said:
1. i found gimp easy to learn (did not need a manual)and use.
2. i know a lot of people who use photoshop (‘use’ would be over stating) and they truly believe they know the program. i can tell you reliably that most of these individuals don’t know squat about photoshop. they don’t understand file size/resolution relationships, they don’t understand what happens when you scale images (besides “it makes it bigger/smaller), fundamental compositing is a mystery to them.. anyway these same people, i’m sure, are the ones who would find gimp a poor replacement for photoshop. which is funny, seeing how they are pretty poor photoshop users to begin with. (and if you are reading this and “think” you are a great photoshop user, and find gimp to be really poor….you may want to RE-think your “great” status in photoshop…..cause i’m telling you, that’s a strange combination)
it’s rare when i’m in kde and boot up my mac just to use photoshop, instead of just bringing out the gimp.
motto: if you are truly great in photoshop, it ain’t no big shit to use gimp. gimp does 75% of what most people need.
Sorry for the off topic, but how can I force the refresh rate under XFree to go to 85 Hz?
No matter what I do (even when I ‘overclock’ the monitor’s ranges in the XF86Config file), the XFree goes up to 73 Hz on my resolution which is 1920×1200. The monitor supports high refresh rates, almost up to 95Hz for this specific res and it can do even 2048×1536 (it is a high-end Trinitron, I have it on a loan from SGI).
So, here is the relevant stuff on the XF86Config file on my Red Hat 8-Psyche installation:
VendorName “Monitor Vendor”
ModelName “SGI FW9011”
HorizSync 30.0 – 121.0
VertRefresh 48.0 – 160.0
# no known options
Identifier “NVIDIA GeForce 2 MX (generic)”
VendorName “NVIDIA GeForce 2 MX (generic)”
BoardName “NVIDIA GeForce 2 MX (generic)”
Device “NVIDIA GeForce 2 MX (generic)”
Modes “1920×1200” “1600×1200” “1400×1050” “1280×1024” “1280×960” “1152×864” “1024×768” “800×600” “640×480”
This Asus GeForce2-MX400 card can do it easily as well:
So, WHY XFree does not pick up the right refresh rate, the maximum one?
We had a somewhat heated discussion today about Red Hat 8 not including the 3D drivers of nVidia on their distrto, but now I have a worse problem: The 2D “nv” driver does not work as it should have either. It seems that the generic nv driver was created for the GeForce1 and then it was updated just to support the 2D core of the GeForce2/3/4, but the modelines of the new cards were never inserted to the nv driver. Which means that even if you have a GeForce4, your refresh rates will work as high only as the GeForce1s were. This is my theory, and I think that’s what happening.
Not to mention that the installer couldn’t pick up the 1900×1200 resolution (which is standard res for many high end monitors for years now!) and I had to hand-edit my XF86Config to get to that res. At only 73 Hz.
So, any suggestions?
I have the problem with the refresh rates too. If I try to force it as above 85 Hz, then the X won’t work any long. On Windows, I am able to get up to 90 Hz without any of trouble. Right now, my refresh rates is stuck on 71 Hz in X.
Damn. I had the same problem with my Ti4200 and I hoped someone here would know…
I just installed the 3D/2D drivers from nVidia (yeah, I said that I wouldn’t do it…). Well, the source tar.gz installation went ok, I have 3D acceleration, but STILL, the freaking thing does not go above 73 Hz on 2D on 1920×1200.
Anonymous, you said that you “forced” your XFree to do more refresh rate. How?
And as I am writing this from Psyche, I just found another Mozilla bug…
Eugenia, you seem pretty pissed about this no-nvidia-drivers-in-the-free-download-distro thing.
You do realize *none* of the major distros include nvidia binary drivers in their free download isos, right?
I have nvidia running great on my Null. I love Null and can’t *wait* for the final release. I love the fact you can drag-n-drop .ttf files into your ~/.font directory and they appear automagically. Awesome!
We are not alone.More people have problems above 1600×1200. It seems that isn’t fixed.
> You do realize *none* of the major distros include nvidia binary drivers in their free download isos, right?
Red Hat is the biggest Linux distro company. They should have been the first company that would PARTNER with nvidia for everyone’s benefit. The fact that the rest can’t strike a “deal” with nvidia, doesn’t tell me more than they are either too small, too poor, or simply bozos who do not understand their own well being.
Anonymous, you said that you “forced” your XFree to do more refresh rate. How?
I am the same Anonymous, I need to register in here.. However, how did I force the refresh rate? Here’s your VertRefresh that I copied:
VertRefresh 48.0 – 160.0
That’s range of 48 Hz to 160 Hz, so your X decided to choice 73 Hz. You can chang the range of Hz. http://www.xfree86.org/4.2.0/XF86Config.5.html#sect8 scroll a little below and you will see the VertRefresh. I hate the range!!!
Here’s link that should help to correct the XF86Config of monitor when you want to change. -> http://xtiming.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/xtiming.pl
It doesn’t always work with refresh rates, thought. X needs to work harder, which it’s still not fully ready for the serious desktop market. Refresh rates is important to human’s health of eyes.
I did tried non-range such as point to 90Hz and it just died same as range when I tried set it higher range.
Yes, I know all about the ranges, I have included in my XF86Config the ranges by hand, according to the monitor’s manual, they are correct. By calculating these timings by hand, they show you that the monitor can do 1900×1200 at above 90Hz!
I used that Xtiming thing too, just right now. IF this page is correct, in order to do 1920x1200x85Hz with my GeForce2MX-400 card, it needs 358 Mhz of pixel clock, while my card can “only” do 350 Mhz. But again, that doesn’t make any sense, because the specifications of the card clearly say that this card CAN do up to 120 Hz at that resolution! And at the end of the day I have setuped BeOS doing 1920×1200 at 90 Hz with no problem, on the partition just next to Red Hat’s (using ProposeMode, a BeOS gfx driver utility)!
Which means two things:
1. The xtiming page is wrong. Or
2. The XFree calculation for modelines and driver are BUGGY beyond belief.
This is stupid, we are in 2002 and XFree still can’t properly work and easily configured. It is LAUGHABLE, no matter what Rayiner says. >:(
>And I personally, AS A USER, have a problem on how Red Hat >manages the drivers. Their non-inclusion or even CHOICE of >install them or not, that is. That was clearly Red Hat’s >call, and they failed to include 3D capabilities by default >on their system, for the BIGGEST gfx maker today in the >world.
Eugenia: Please realize that Microsoft does not have NVidia drivers by default in any Windows version. They only load their own graphics drivers that do _NOT_ support 3D acceleration. You must download the Windows drivers via NVidia’s website. Why should any other desktop OS be any different, least of which is Red Hat who tries to adhere to the GPL as closely as possible? Here’s a trick: Install Windows, but do not install the NVidia drivers from NVidia’s website. Try to play a 3D game using Windows’s default driver. See what happens.
About previous versions of Red Hat. Sure, they included Netscape, but it’s not an application that is intimately tied to the kernel. The NVidia driver is, and if the driver crashes, guess what? Bye-bye kernel, cold reboot. Netscape will just crash Netscape, not the whole operating system.
Which means two things:
1. The xtiming page is wrong. Or
2. The XFree calculation for modelines and driver are BUGGY beyond belief.
XFree86 does REALLY need to rewrite and make the improvement. It still sucks compare to different sytems.
Have you tried change from 48.0 – 160.0 to 85.0 – 160.0, yet? Mine Hz used to be 60, so I had to push up to 70.0-100.0 to get 71 Hz, that’s far as I can push up. 80 or 90, it just crashed.
This is stupid, we are in 2002 and XFree still can’t properly work and easily configured.
Haha, yeah I agreed!
ok, forget it, we tried a number of things here, and when trying to force the X server to do 85 Hz, it would change the resolution to the lower 1600×1200 automatically. It is like the X server itself has a blocking mechanism to not allow large refresh rates, even if you force it. I don’t know what else to say.
I’m sorry if you took it the wrong way but I was just offering up what I’ve heard about the whole NVIDIA drivers thing. Personally, I don’t mind having to go to NVIDIA’s site and download two RPM files (Or tar.gz files to compile if I’m in Slack). It’s no big deal for me, and I don’t even really have many 3D apps ATM.
I guess I could be a little less caring about it, what with having broadband and all (Even if it’s capped at 200 and usually goes at 100-150). Plus I’m the kinda person who doesn’t mind doing an extra little thing like installing drivers manually for my vid card, especially when it’s so easy like the NVIDIAs. I don’t even have to recompile my kernel, it’s real nice.
ok, the nvidia 3D/2D driver is BUGGY. The kernel locks when you send it a SIGKill via SSH (X crashes with 98% CPU time, after 2-3 minutes you have loaded X. >:( )
So much for “installing your own 3D drivers”. That thing is ain’t tested. THAT is what I am talking about when talking about for partnership of RH with nvidia. To not have such bugs found by individual users when they use these kernel drivers. RH is now a big company. They should take some responsibility and CHASE nvidia to deliver drivers that work and that come together with the linux machine.
As for the Windows, I am sure XP comes with 3D nvidia drivers.
Ok, I fixed the stability problem AND the refresh rate problem. You know what I had to do in order to find the “light”?
I had to email nvidia employees with my questions. Yes. I am lucky that I am a “member of the press”, so people listen. If I was Joe User my email would most probably have been in the bin now.
Anyways, a VERY kind, very helpful and very smart nvidia engineer found the problem. For some reason XFree lowers the pixel clock of the cards when on 24bit (aka 32bit) color. XFree does that EVEN if the card CAN go higher than that! I am sure some would have heard that XFree doesn’t like much the 24bit color mode. Well, this is one of the reasons.
Anyways, by going down to 16bit, it fixed the problem, while BeOS on the same machine can do the same resolutions (via ProposeMode) at 32bit color. I did not try it earlier because I was “all my life” on 16bit on Linux because I used to have Voodoos who are much faster on 16bit, so I
thought to rejoice now that I got a geforce2… bad luck again! I still need to be on 16bit. Stupid XFree. OLD CODE. XFree needs either some serious work or some scrapping. Really. I did not really believe so much that before, but as they in Greece: “you have to cut yourself in order to feel the sharpness”.
As for the stability problem, this is from the NVAGP driver, I will need to either disable AGP support or load AGPGart instead of the nvidia AGP driver. I will fix this in the future, for now, I have disabled AGP support.
/me wubs Eugenia’s “member of the press”!
I will have to try turn down from 24bit to 16bit and see if it will fix this stupid refresh rates. It’s time to bug XFree86 developers harder as we can!
Uh, the reason you say that they should include the nvidia drivers, is that they are targeting the desktop market. That is *not* true. It is targeting the corporate desktop market. Big difference, no need for games, no need for 3d. Just for e-mail, browsing, and office work. Btw, if you want your changes to considered, send them to the bugzilla! I don’t particulary like them (z-snake is a bandaid for a crappy gui, 10-size fonts is requiring a decent monitor and a good vision from the user), but anyway, they only consider it if you send it to bugzilla. (do you think they have time to browse the web to hunt for feature requests?)
moog: 1. i found gimp easy to learn (did not need a manual)and use.
Compared to Photoshop, no. I found GIMP easy to learn to, but I found Photoshop’s UI much more inviting. And with Photoshop Elements 2.0….. *sigh*
Besides, I also found Paint Shop Pro’s user interface the best among all three, even though the icons, IMHO, is butt ugly.
palooka joe: Eugenia: Please realize that Microsoft does not have NVidia drivers by default in any Windows version.
Actually they do, only it isn’t as good as DetanatorXP (spelling?). It supports things like DirectX, but isn’t as optimized as NVidia’s drivers.
And when you use Windows Update, they get the latest drivers from NVidia for you. Besides, Linux companies should strive to be BETTER than Microsoft, not AS GOOD.
Anonymous: XFree86 does REALLY need to rewrite and make the improvement. It still sucks compare to different sytems.
It sucks even more compared to commercial X out there, but I don’t think a rewrite is needed. I think XFree should stop thinking about new features and fix all the bugs, and later on add features really needed (like zero configuration). XFree86’s code, mostly, is actually quite good.
Eugenia, you say you “just say what you think” and that’s fine but don’t expect me to do anything else, ok?
I don’t want to argue with you as you have never ever admitted any fault, even when you where clearly prooven wrong (the GNOME 2.0 review…). You once said to me that you don’t care which one’s fault it is when something goes wrong, that’s why I made this comment… Just wanted to point it out (I mean that Linux(kernel) should be the culprit). And that it really isn’t much of a deal to download the NVidia RPM’s once they are ready and install them, so please don’t go ranting about compilation and such.
Ok, so Red Hat doesn’t partner with NVidia, might be a shortcoming worth to be mentioned, but nothing breathtaking. Especially as this is _not_ meant to be as a distribution for the general home desktop user yet, playing 3D games isn’t everything.
I’m just afraid that you will take a detail like this again to write a whole page why opensource or Linux or whatever generally sucks and won’t ever such less. You did this a lot lately, but if you don’t do it this time, I won’t complain…
And please note that not everyone disagreeing with you must be a die hard fan who just wants to defend his beloved but flawed software. I did _not_ start with Red Hat, and neither did I ever really use it nor do I use it currently, so I can hardly be a fan. I just looked at Red Hat 7.3 once and thought it was ok, that’s all. I just have high hopes for Red Hat 8 and I would enjoy a detailed review from you, as I know that you will look at it from a perspective that I’m interested in (the desktop user and developer). Please point out that the user might have to go trough the “struggle” of downloading the drivers from a webpage to get the (excellent) 3D support and please point out that XFree can’t do 85Hz in 1920×1600 and 32bit but please also be aware that this might not even be a problem for the large majority of the readers of your review.
That’s all, and believe me, I find some of your comments just as offending towards me as you probably find some of my comments offending. But it was never my intention to offend you, just like it probably never was your intention to offend the people you bitch at for “just speaking the truth”. It’s pretty much the same in a different color.
A lot of XFree86 developers know of such a problem, little know of a solution. Try scouting at #xfree86 (irc.freenode.net) to find out more.
Plus, bugging developers isn’t gonna work, it would just make things worse.