Apple and Linux are engaged in battle – a battle to win over disgruntled Windows users. But who will win, and what will the consequences be for the loser? The most commonly held belief amongst Apple and Linux fanboys is that both factions are engaged in some kind of a war with Microsoft. The truth is that if you look at the market share figure for Windows, Mac and Linux, both Mac OS and all the Linux distros that have ever been released are dwarfed by Windows.
Apple vs. Linux: Which Will Win Disgruntled Windows Users?
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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Eventually Linux will.
Things in Linux favour
1. Works on disgruntled Windows computers
2. Is getting uptake in the corporate world
3. Free
Don’t get me wrong, OS-X is an interesting piece of tech and will take it’s share of Windows users but more the people with cash to burn as Mac’s are bloody expensive outside of the USA.
Also hope the push for open standards will tip the move to Linux.
I don’t think that is so certain. I could be happy with Linux and in fact, i already use Linux exclusively on my Laptop and Windows only on my Desktop. The reason i can’t ditch Windows completely right now are a couple of proprietary apps which don’t have Linux alternatives. Those alternatives do exist for Mac.
So despite i like Linux and despite that it runs on my existing Hardware i will get an Mac, simply because Linux lacks support from Software companies and the OSS scene can’t compensate everything.
Please, no one saying Wine now. I tried all the apps i miss on Linux with Wine and not even one of them worked in a bearable way.
How about QEMU or VirtualBox? They have kernel support and if you have a recent CPU it’ll even have virtualization support. These mean near-native speed. You can even run apps in a “seamless” manner ie. show just the app you want, in a native Linux desktop window instead of the whole Windows desktop.
I didn’t know there is a seamless mode now, which indeed sounds very tempting. It isn’t an alternative though, since the Apps i use need OpenGL support and are pretty performance and Memory intense.
Accelerated OpenGL and DirectX support is coming for VMs. QEMU and VirtualBox have began working on it–first to come is OpenGL. VMWare and Parallels are working on getting DirectX support thru OpenGL on *nix platforms.
VMWare already has experimental Direct3D 8 acceleration support in their Linux/Windows products. I played Need For Speed – Hot Pursuit 2 under it. Apart from several missing textures, it ran pretty smooth and a good sign for things to come.
Of course Need For Speed isn’t a great example because it runs pretty well in Wine and Cedega already. But its one of the fewer games I have that utilizes Direct3D 8.x. However, games and apps that use OpenGL or rely on an older or newer DirectX API than 8.x don’t work well or at all yet.
That said, I prefer Wine and my seamless terminal server over virtualization just on principle. Its required to have an extra copy of Windows (full) to virtualize the OS. Microsoft went one step further in Vista by requiring you to purchase the more expensive Business or Ultimate versions for *legal* VM use.
Edited 2007-12-16 18:01
Too bad you tried :
WineSetupTk
WineX
Codeweavers
Win4lin
Cedega
Etc …
And none of them where of any help after you contacted a Wine and Windows emulator GNU/Linux expert …
Yeah, actually i didn’t buy a dozen virtualization Products to see if one of them might run those.
None of them has them in their “working apps” list though and Win4Lin doesn’t even support OpenGL which is required for those apps.
Now “contacting a Wine and Windows emulation expert” is a really funny thing to say. You mean like, pay them 10000$ to modify Wine to run my software? Or do you mean like “hey they can’t know it doesn’t run”. If you mean the first one, i don’t have that kind of money and quite obviously just buying a Mac would be a better solution. If you mean the second, then i guess i should tell you that i’m the AppDB maintainer of two of those Apps… the amount of Wine developers is rather small and everyone wants them to get their favorite app to work.
“no one saying Wine now. I tried all the apps i miss on Linux with Wine and not even one of them worked in a bearable way.”
“i didn’t buy a dozen virtualization Products to see if one of them might run”.
…
Wow… so WineX, CrossOverOffice and Win4lin are free now? That would be good news, except they aren’t and since they aren’t guaranteed (and even not very likely) to run my apps, why would i waste money on them?
Win4Lin (as i understand) has no OpenGL acceleration which means 0 (as in Zero) chance of running them.
So you honestly believe it is an good alternative to spend a lot of money on emulation software, which have a very slim chance that they might run my software, with the almost certain chance that they don’t support the next version of my apps just for the benefit that i might run my apps at 10% performance with twice the requirement of ram?
Alleister,
What Windows applications do you need to run?
1) Wine is free. Cedega is only good for games and hardly better at that. Crossover Office is basically Wine with some commercial support and a wizard to install common Windows applications.
2) If you have a spare computer connected to the Internet somewhere in the world (better yet, on a LAN) and that machine happens to have Windows NT 4.0 TS, 2000, XP Pro, 2003, Vista Buisness or above installed, you can create a terminal server.
With a little work (patching, compiling CVS code and changing some Windows group policy settings) you can configure the terminal to be as seamless as clicking applications icons on your Linux desktop and have it open individual program windows with taskbar items.
I can show you how and offer you my special FOSS dummy program I wrote to work around an issue. It just sits in the system tray and acts as a dummy process.
3) There are several VM solutions avialable to you, many which are free; KVM is built into the Linux kernel itself. ATM, the only noteable example of 3D acceleration for Linux VM hosts and Windows guests is VMWare Player or VMWare Workstation with VMWare Tools installed.
VMWare Player is free and it’s corresponding VM files can be made online at easyvmx.com. VMWare Server is free as well but currently incapable of handling 3D because of the way it handles graphics internally.
Edited 2007-12-16 22:41
Absolutely agreed. Unfortunately, most Linux zealots will not realise this as a truth.
Dave
But apple has these things in their favour:
1. Plethora of well known software, drivers
2. Easier to set up*
3. Big company, lots of marketing.
*Some may argue that linux is easier to set up because it includes the apps you need out of the box but if you need to use your wireless networking card and it has no native driver what do you do? Most people don’t like hunting down firmware and setting up ndiswrapper. Or having to stop using their brand-new non-hp photo printer because there are no linux drivers.
No doubt that linux is a great OS but for the average Joe, Mac is more attractive. But who knows – this may change in the future.
Edited 2007-12-16 00:40
Same thing applies to Vista and even XP, and yet it doesn’t stop Windows. And if there’s an OS that comes with the least amount of stuff out of the box, Windows wins the crown hands down. It has the worst ratio of money payed for applications you get by far, of the three.
And if you stop to think about it, you’ll see that most of these drivers are not even Microsoft’s merit. That brand new camera and whatnot works because the manufacturer makes drivers for Windows and can’t be bothered to make them for other OS’s. To that I say thanks but no thanks, if they don’t want me using it I won’t. No matter how much I may like a piece of hardware, when they say “but you gotta use a certain OS” is where I draw the line.
The big advantage for joe is that they can just look at the box and read the requirements and tell, whether the product will work or not with his Windows PC or Mac.
In theory. In practice YMMV, except they neglect to tell you that part. The stuff on the box doesn’t guarantee anything, it’s just saying it has a good chance of working.
And it’s up to the manufacturer of either OS or hardware to screw it up. Take for instance the recent rebranding done by Microsoft:
http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=204…
They have changed the PlaysForSure logo (their DRM for Zune) with a “Certified for Microsoft Vista” logo. So “certified” will now mean one thing for Zune (ie. supports PlaysForSure DRM and will play tunes downloaded from Microsoft’s store) and another for any other device (ie. will not work). Average Joe will be in for a bit of a suprise at some point, even though the device he bought said “certified”.
The last time I checked, Macs had a bundle of software pre-installed.
“but if you need to use your wireless networking card and it has no native driver what do you do?”
Buy a new one. Wireless cards are cheap. Macs are not.
(Oh, or there’s the ndiswrapper if you would rather spend a a bit of time, rather than money on wireless card.)
Buy a new one from this list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open_source_wireless_dri…
Reward the manufacturers who support open source.
Ralink, Intel, Atheros and ZyDAS.
Edited 2007-12-17 12:13
Linux still needs to get fundamental basics right, pretty much everything is easier, less stressful, a less time consuming to do with Windows, and I hear is even simpler on OS X.
The first-time tried to installed Linux was in 1995 Slackware 3.0, no support for my generic graphics card, and i had to issue some weird command -line augments to disable noacpi for it to even install.
Fast forward 12 years, i try installing ubuntu 6, no support (Vesa modes don’t count) for my NVIDIA graphics card, and i had to issue some weird command -line augments to disable noacpi for it to even install on my INTEL motherboard.
Edited 2007-12-16 00:50
There was no support for ACPI in Linux at that time. Please don’t lie.
Well, if you drove one car for a decade, everything else will seem weird, you might even bet your one is beter than all the others (wouldn’t be the first time such thing happens). Your being unwilling to properly try to install a Linux distro doesn’t convince anyone of it being a load of crap. There are some of us who could list angering stories of pretty hard Windows installs, so what ?
<p>“Your being unwilling to properly try to install a Linux distro doesn’t convince anyone of it being a load of crap”
<p>Well i think its clear from my post that i have indeed tried and tested many distros of linux.
So try to install Vista in an old computer and see what happens.
The problem is not the OS here but the fact that NVIDIA don’t make appropiate drivers for Linux (that meaning open 3d drivers that would be directly included into the hardware).
It is the same problem that old hardware has with vista. The company that sold the hardware is not interested in doing drivers for it.
But it is only a question of marketshare. Once they realize there is business in making sure their products work with linux, that big problem of you totally disapears.
Neither.
Most people just don’t have a reason to switch. Most of the software available on Linux is also available on Windows. In contrast, Linux recieves attention from a miniscule portion of the commercial software market.
No exclusive apps on Linux is a big deterent IMO, along with certain “geeky” perceptions–some which may still hold true today when dealing with poorly supported hardware.
Cross-platform apps are fine and satisify the open source ideology but fail to increase attention or awareness of Linux as a viable platform.
You can very well run Windows apps from a *nix environment in a varity of ways: wine, seamless terminal services (CVS-built rdesktop & seamlessRDP w/ several patches), seamless-mode virtualization (VirtualBox). However, none of these solutions are intuitive nor flawless.
People are not willing to migrate to a different OS and learn about it, just to use the same apps as they were before–assuming they tried something above.
I think people, such as me, who use Linux do so for alternate reasons. Reasons such as it being free, open, non-Microsoft, and “different”. These are all valid reasons for OSNews readers but aren’t a concern for ordinary users.
Ordinary computer users don’t know and/or care about Microsoft’s monopoly status or open source code, etc. Therefore the only way to gain their interest is to develop amazing software they “must have” thats not available on any other platform.
Edited 2007-12-16 01:35
Most people just don’t have a reason to switch.
I couldn’t agree more. However, there is a deep psychological element involved in all of this.
Recently, a new teacher came to our hagwon (private English academy) here in S. Korea. I had told him before arrival that the Boss would be happy to help him purchase things like a new laptop for his personal use, and he could reimburse the Boss incrementally from his salary. So he did just that.
The problem? If you buy a new computer in Korea, it comes (a) with Vista (various versions) by default, and (b) exclusively with the GUI in Korean; even the CLI comes with Korean switches and the like when traversing the filesystem (I know because I did that for him the other day, of which more later).
Now, he could have purchased an English-language laptop from (say) Prime PC in Tokyo, but if he did that, he would have to pay 10% Import Duty on the purchase once it arrived here. He was desperate to have English Windoze and in the end, despite the fact that he could have used my software to (a) partition his drive and install any favour of Linux he desired (I use Mandriva and have everything he could need, including an up-to-date version of Acronis so he could have done all of this comfortably from within Windoze), and (b) he would then have had a very nice-to-look-at, exclusively-English environment, he has just forked out for a more expensive version of Vista, in English, to be despatched from England, and intends to scrub the HDD and install this.
This is indicative of the mind control Microsoft has due to its dominance of the market. Despite having someone there who could do everything for him absolutely for free, his insecurity when confronted with the unknown made him do something that I would never even consider. The fact that he would be doing things almost exactly the same in day-to-day terms under Mandriva (I would have set him up with KDE and he would have really enjoyed it) and it would have been free, with a minimal user learning curve, were things that he never really considered, so afraid was he of venturing into what was (for him) uncharted territory.
I think people, such as me, who use Linux do so for alternate reasons. Reasons such as it being free, open, non-Microsoft, and “different”. These are all valid reasons for OSNews readers but aren’t a concern for ordinary users.
Ordinary computer users don’t know and/or care about Microsoft’s monopoly status or open source code, etc. Therefore the only way to gain their interest is to develop amazing software they “must have” thats not available on any other platform.
Yes, this is true, too. I use Mandriva because I first played around with it back in its 7.0 days (and wrecked a hard drive in the process!!!), but I find that being able to get the KDE appearance just as I want it, having to spend no more than a minute booting and no problems so far with any kind of malware, viruses etc. is fantastic. I have just begun setting up XP Pro under Virtualbox on my desktop machine and it is great – it works really well and transitioning between host and guest OSes is sweet and easy.
But this doesn’t mean that, as a user, I am either unwilling or unable to fork out for software; I’m happy to do this if I consider it worthwhile, it’s just that I can now do anything I could do under Windoze – free.
For me, the main reason to switch was simply the security aspect – if all of the Windows GUI is in Korean, how on Earth could I ever be sure that the system was secure, even with English-language third-party apps like Trend PC-Cillin to protect me? Virtually all that I do in Windows these days is just update the databases and scan for malware and viruses; I do everything else under Mandriva, and I’m happy there because this is a comfortable and largely hassle-free environment under which to do almost anything I need to do.
But I don’t evangelise on behalf of Linux, only present it as a considered alternative if there’s a problem. Some things run better under Windows, so use Windows. For everything else, use Linux.
Anyway, let me finish with this: http://search.japantimes.co.jp/mail/eo20071216a3.html
It seems that it’s not only the English-speaking world that finds it has trouble with new versions of Windows and Office!
I also teach English in Korea and use PClinuxOS
at home..in the office i have only met
one other linux user(we have 15 foreign teachers)
and most haven’t even heard of it. Fine with me.
As for security..well you could learn Korean like I did
or get that guy in Itaewon to install an English XP.
One problem for Korean users of Linux – or indeed any Asian language user – is the poor quality of input methods needed to input text in their native language.
Sure there is SCIM…which will work for firefox but not Kmail(one is Qt one is GTK..scim only works for
one widget set). The different toolkits used by linux
make life difficult to get a single decent simple to use input language switcher like XP or Apple OS X has.
If you can’t get this right linux will never win
in Asia.
What is heartening is the elevated interest
in Apple – go to any starbucks and you will see
at least one or two macbooks there. Five years ago
that would have been impossible.
Edited 2007-12-16 12:00
Yes, I just downloaded the latest version of PCLinuxOS and will be cutting it in a while, or virtualising it as it should work well under Virtualbox if OpenSuSE is anything to go by . . . I have two PCs and both dual-boot XP and Mandriva, and Mandriva always works great on both machines.
No-one ever seems to say anything bad about PCLOS as an “alternative”. But I have been busy today editing a set of video files (using Kino), printing, you name it . . . it seems to me that unless there’s some helpless “show-stopper” that brings everything to a screeching halt, discussions of which OS is “better” or will get more market share in the future is superfluous.
Movie Maker under Microshaft doesn’t seem to be able to accept files (*.mod) from my JVC HD camcorder so I use Kino under Mandriva instead. Gets the job done! ^_^
I dont use it for any of those reasons. I use it because it’s lot less frustrating than Windows (I’ve used Windows since 1990 and always found it frustrating) and I am more productive in Linux and/or BSD both at work and at home. Sure, free, open and non-windows and all that is nice but at the end of they day I need to get stuff done and that is what it’s all about. I cant get stuff done in Windows without pulling my hair out and having my blood pressure skyrocket. Granted the same happen in Linux (try setting up an ad-hoc network with nm-applet) but much less so.
Edited 2007-12-16 07:31
I’m fine with Windows XP (I don’t need Vista, thanks). If I had to change, I would use Linux. I tried OS X and I didn’t like it as a whole, especially the look.
As though Windows is some kind of superior OS and the others are just two ants on a giant rock. Windows has it’s market based on a monopoly which we all know with Windows only embedded controlling technologies, protected by a layer of lies and false information.
Articles like this are just false because all they see is 93% market share(built on decades) and think that Linux can over turn this in a few years of mature desktop uptake. Apple are taking small percentages the market on it’s own without the need of big OEM’s, Linux only has just got started in this.
When one such as Microsoft has a tight grip on the industry like it does, you have to start somewhere and thats the weak little finger.
Edited 2007-12-16 00:34
Indeed. Uptake of linux will go slow, and not at all if Linux doesn’t offer advantages to both developers and users. We need to be clearly better than Microsoft and Apple. We need to out-innovate them and bring the latest technology at the earliest possible moment.
Yet it happens to be that we’re particularly good at these things, and as our ecosystem grows, we grow faster and stronger. FOSS development techniques, unlike proprietary development models, scale pretty well.
As more and more companies are joining FOSS one way or another, we will cross some threshold were a FOSS system will have such clear advantages it will be impossible to ignore. Lower costs, better availability and more capabilities; and a more healthy ecosystem with more competition and smaller, more innovative companies.
In the long run, I don’t think MS and the other proprietary vendors will be able to stop it – unless, UNLESS they can do so through legal and political barriers. But the tide is turning against them – Europe is slowly getting committed to FOSS, and it is keeping a close eye on abuse of marketpower – which is the only real asset Microsoft has against FOSS.
//all they see is 93% market share(built on decades) //
Umm … how long has Apple been around? Longer than Microsoft, I believe. Why don’t they have 93% market share?
According to Wikipedia Apple was founded in April 1, 1976 and Microsoft April 4 1975.
Also Apple produces both the computer and the OS. Microsoft piggybacked upon the success of the IBM PC and through strong marketing tactics[1] became the dominant supplier of OSes for IBM PC compatible computers. Their rise to fame is directly linked to the success of the IBM PC as a superior platform not the other way round. Most of this happened in the late 80’s. It was not until late 1995[2] that Microsoft could even claim to have a equal Windowed OS to the Macintosh. Even then it was an unstable mess.
People bought PC compatibles because they were cheaper than macs and more easily upgradeable not because it ever had a superior operating system.
[1] Some would claim that Microsoft cheated as part of their tactics but still that does not deny that they succeeded.
[2] Microsoft had a superior OS called OS/2 before they dumped it in IBM’s lap and went with the inferior NT platform. However this was not a viable Desktop for the masses until Windows XP release in 2001.
At one point, Apple had 50% of the home/micro computer market. The Mac peaked at about 14%, IIRC. Does anyone else remember when games like Myst and Marathon were made for Classic Mac OS?
I don’t think that article is misleading. Linux is here long enough. Linux people should analyze it and make conclusions, instead of dismiss it.
1. Many people in Linux community is anti-capitalistic and business unfriendly, making life harder for Linux vendors
2. There is an elitism in the Linux community, as if people have to prove that they worthy to use Linux. Average consumer won’t fall for that. In fact, Linux people don’t want “average” people to join them. So, they don’t.
3. Entertainment side of Linux is underdeveloped
4. Microsoft is a market leader, but still, Microsoft interoperability is considered a bad thing.
If Linux people want to live in closed, isolated circle, then this article is, in fact, a good news, and there should be no negative reactions.
“Many people in Linux community is anti-capitalistic and business unfriendly, making life harder for Linux vendors ”
Like who? We all like to eat, we all like money, and we all typically work for and support businesses.
“There is an elitism in the Linux community, as if people have to prove that they worthy to use Linux. Average consumer won’t fall for that. In fact, Linux people don’t want “average” people to join them. So, “they don’t.”
5 years ago yes, today not so much. There will always be some of this in any “camp” Windows Mac Linux doesn’t matter here.
“Entertainment side of Linux is underdeveloped”
Sadly, yes. I spent some time playing games last night that while they weren’t on-par with some of the commercial games out there, they were ok.
Alien Arena 2007
Tremulous
Warzone 2100
Armagatron
“Microsoft is a market leader, but still, Microsoft interoperability is considered a bad thing.”
No, the lack of published standards leading to interoperability is a bad thing.
Where do you get this stuff? Most Linux users that I know personally use Linux and have a Windows VM that sits on top using their existing license. It’s really a very powerful combination. We also buy software, yes that’s right we buy it. We support companies like Transgaming, Codeweavers, and VMWare because we really aren’t anti-anything. We just PREFER linux.
Is it that hard to comprehend? I’m so sick and tired of all the bullshit comments about linux people are this and that.
It’s f–king OS racism.
Edited 2007-12-16 16:00
First thing, I am writing this on SUSE Linux. I use FreeBSD, too. I don’t say that all Linux people are the same, but most “old guard” Linux people I know are. They are living in some Star Wars alike universe with Empire vs. Rebellion mindset. Take a look at Stallman. His hatred towards capitalism is radiating. Maybe the “old guard”, who carried the whole thing forward in the early years, is holding things back today. Someone said that every revolution eats its own children in the end.
I agree about the lack of published standards, but I was talking about the attitude. Microsoft interoperability IS CONSIDERED bad thing.
This is not OS racism, it is positive criticism. There is nothing wrong with Linux in technical aspects, it is at least as good as any other OS. It is about approach, and attitude. Technical improvements are good, but won’t lead to more acceptance.
and the list goes: id software, epic, etc.
I never bought a windows-only game simply because I don’t use/like windows, I love buying Linux games like doom 3, quake 4, etc, e.g. id software or epic games, etc.
and i support/like those companies that support us.
http://img463.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf4560ae0.jpg
Ah, “anti-capitalistic”. Like capitalism is an unblemished virtue. Just say left-leaning/communist, why don’t you.
Linux vendors live, die and work in capitalistic environment. They need to follow the rules in order to survive and make money.
Xandros is “bad”, Linspire is “bad”. Novell is “bad”. RedHat is “good” now, but they have been “bad” couple of years ago.
Debian was always “good”, but they don’t make money at all.
There is no “good” or “bad”, all of them are trying to make living. And all of them are offering, at least, one variant of their distribution for free.
In the short term:
Both. There’s no false binary choice needed when there’s at 90+ % marketshare mountain to chip away at. Since Apple is the ‘new sex’ I’ll give them the short run edge.
In the long term:
Both– With a huge raw numbers edge to Free Software OSes (often on ‘unconventional devices’.), but with Apple having a larger than current niche in the Computer and Laptop space and with a strong presence in the ‘higher end’ devices space. (Mostly because the Apple tax is higher than the Microsoft tax, but they manage to deliver a ‘better’ and ‘sexier’ product than MS.) The future will be ‘more open’ at the price for ‘adequate’ hardware approaches zero, IMHO.
But MS will always ‘be there’ in some big way– Albeit, this is all wanking from a Debian GNU / Linux KDE guy.
Linux will win and will ever be the best.
Edited 2007-12-16 00:51
If both OS’s can grab more market share from Microsoft, the world will be a better place.
This is such a stupid article it’s bound to cause all kinds of arguments…
Linux will win, it’s superior!
OS X will win, it’s easier, friendlier and awesome
Windows will always be the forefront because it’s so prevalent.
I don’t speak up much, but these kind of articles are of no use whatsoever except to fan the flames…
Personally, I don’t doubt that both Apple and MS can continue making tons of cash into the distant future. I also don’t doubt Red Hat and Ubuntu will continue to grow, Linux will continue to dominate supercomputers and grow in mobile phones.
What I DO doubt is that MS will be able to hold onto a 90%+ something marketshare, or even a 70%+ marketshare, into the distant future. How that cookie crumbles, though, is up for anyone’s guess, but I don’t doubt that both Apple and various Linux service companies will all benefit, though the Linux companies will probably never make as much revenue as proprietary software companies (which isn’t to say their impact on the world will be smaller).
And while I do agree with you, my point was that articles like this don’t do anything to facilitate MS’ fall out of dominance nor Linux based Operating Systems and Mac OSX succeed.
Microsoft has nowhere to go but down. As market leader, it’s very difficult to continue that dominance without fighting those attacking you from both sides. Innovation is not easy, and the market leader has to fight innovation from everyone, to match what they create, and continue creating or else it’ll lose that dominance.
Those not in dominance, Linux based OS companies and Apple, have nowhere to go but up…which position would you like to be in?
I could not agree with you more.+1.
Ps. I think Windows will be replaced by another propietary system anyways.I dont mean OSX.And yes, I am a 100% Linux user and love it.Just I am not the “all your base are belong to us” fanboy.
Edited 2007-12-16 13:46
I’d love to see non-corporate market share stats, that is, when users *have* a choice (even if they don’t know about it), how many choose a non-Microsoft OS?
I guess that the home pc market is maybe 20-30% apple
More like two rats fighting on back of dinosaur, and we all know how that story turns out.
two “rats”? i don’t think so…
and the “dinosaur” will soon be a fossil and will only remain as a part of history.
Edited 2007-12-16 01:09
LOL, it’s the story of evolution my friend. You have something against rats? They’re our ancestors. MS is the huge, lumbering stupid dinosaur, and Apple and Linux are the smaller, but nimbler rats.
Edited 2007-12-16 01:07
Apple is more like a panda.
//LOL, it’s the story of evolution my friend. You have something against rats? They’re our ancestors. //
Interesting. I believe it’s the *theory* of evolution. Also, why has the so-called evolution stopped? Humans are getting worse, not better.
Evolution is a fact, not a theory.
Look at your hand, see that thumb, what is it for ?
If you were to design a hand, an extra finger would be way better than a useless thumb.
A thumb used to be your dew-claw, it has evolved into half-finger, half claw.
It is the thing that allowed your ape ancestors to hold onto the branch instead of falling out of the tree.
Also, you say evolution has stopped ? Why then, when you take a walk around a museum, do all the clothes from the past look as if they will only fit children ?
And, what is your appendix for ? will you die when it is removed ? Nope, and your spleen ? also nope.
That is only humans, but I will give you an example of evolution that no-one can dispute;
Your house is infested with 1000 fruit flies, so you go down the shops and buy a fly killer spray. You spray madly around your house and 960 flies die.
A flaw in the genes of the remaining 40 flies makes them immune to the fly spray.
A couple of weeks later, there is 1000 flies again, the 40 flies have bred. So, you rush down and get the fly spray, no flies die this time.
The genes of the new batch are all immune to the fly spray, so, you go and get a stronger spray.
960 flies die, leaving 40. This 40 has another genetic flaw that means they are immune to the newer stronger fly spray.
Couple of weeks later, 1000 flies which are immune to both the new stronger spray, and the older weaker one are buzzing around your house.
This is evolution in action, survival of the fittest, and a species adapting to a situation.
Ezekiel:
15
I myself will pasture my sheep; I myself will give them rest, says the Lord GOD.
16
The lost I will seek out, the strayed I will bring back, the injured I will bind up, the sick I will heal (but the sleek and the strong I will destroy), shepherding them rightly.
17
As for you, my sheep, says the Lord GOD, I will judge between one sheep and another, between rams and goats.
18
They knew animal husbandry in Biblical times.
Put too much food in goldfish bowl and fittest die first. You don’t want spieces to break apart — gene pool diversity is key for long term evolution. Diversity is where you get building blocks. Rules change and Mr. Stumpy fin fish survives and becomes lizard.
Life expectancy for WWI pilot was 2 weeks.
Look at human evolution today.
God cheats anyway so who cares. God says…
NAILS FEES BEFOREHAND RENT EDITIONS IMPORTANT ACUTE PLENTEOUSNESS
BEATING INCREASED FACTS PRESIDES UNBESEEMINGLY FAIN BITING
PURSUITS MASSACHUSETTS KNOWS HELPIDIUS REPUTE ALL FAIR
CONTRADICTORY MIGHTILY SUPPORT DISPERSETH PHOTINUS ISRAEL
BASKET PASSION EXCELLENCY ILLS WAITED SITES SWEETLY FRONT
LAYETH COMMENDED PRESSETH
Evolution is a fact but the Evolution Theory is not a fact. It is a theory. Granted, the only viable theory IMHO to explain the evolution we see, but some disagree due to reasons obscure to me.
There is both the *theory* of evolution AND the *fact* of evolution.
The *fact* is that species have evolved in the past, and continue to do so.
The *theory* is one possible explanation of how this happens.
You have two elements or cornerstones of that theory: inheritance of characteristics is one element, and selection is the other.
Inheritance provably happens … well after the theory predicted a mechanism for inheritance, DNA was discovered.
Selection depends on weaker members of a species not surving to the point of being able to breed (or otherwise not breeding … you can have evolution of characteristics through breeding preferences, such as in the lyre bird).
If indeed it has stopped for humans, then one or both of the two fundamental mechanisms must no longer be happening.
Inheritance still happens, there is still DNA involved in reporduction.
Selection: maybe not. Most humans, stronger or weaker, now survive to the point of being able to breed.
If the mechanism of selection in evolution of humans has indeed ceased, and most individuals survive and breed, then the end result would tend to be that the spread of human characteristics would increase in all directions at once. People will get both taller and shorter (ie more variation amongst individuals at either extreme). They will get both fatter and thinner. They will get both smarter and dumber.
Edited 2007-12-17 00:11
“Also, why has the so-called evolution stopped?”
What on earth makes you think that evolution has stopped? You don’t have the perspective to say that because your lifetime is a fraction of a twinkle of a blink of an eye in evolutionary terms.
The time since the discovery of evolution is not even anywhere near long enough conclusively confirm Darwin’s theory of evolution, so I don’t see how anyone can conclusively deny Darwin’s theory of evolution or confirm it, nor suggest that evolution has “stopped”.
What we can say is that there is considerably more evidence in support of Darwin’s theory than there is to debunk it. Many transitional fossils have been discovered more-or-less exactly “when”, and “as” predicted based on fossils from predecessor and successor species. DNA was predicted before it was discovered (as touched on by another poster).
In the event that human evolution has slowed, history suggests that like aligators, elephants, sharks and other species that seem to have slowed to an evolutionary crawl, we no longer have to worry about being ‘negative-selected’ to be removed from the gene pool by predators. As a species, we may have found our niche, as it were.
Actually rats aren’t how ancestors, but rather a rat-like mammal. Some would argue it was more mouse-like than rat-like, but point is that this cute little four-legged creature _could_ be the ancestor of all mammals (unless of course it is the descent of another mammal).
Claiming we descend from the rat is like claiming we descend from the cod… oh wait…
Yes we do. The dinosaurs are gone and the mammals rule the earth.
They got where they are by making a good enough product at a much lower price than the alternatives. Lock-in was not what brought MS to prominence; actually, it was by piggy-backing on the success of the open standard that is x86 and the personal computing revolution it fostered. Having their proprietary layer at a certain water-level above the open architecture allowed Windows to flourish over the more-proprietary UNIXes and Macintosh, C64, etc.
But now, they think lock-in is somehow going to allow them to flourish. They have no faith in themselves to continue being successful because of leadership. Too many gold-diggers found their way into that company — light doth attract the moth, and in this case, it attracted too many people who can’t see past today’s dollar for tomorrow’s healthy company. Money doesn’t buy automatic success in the world of computing. Open source proves this.
No mention of how many of those alleged Vista sales are just “book sales” rather than hard copies in actual use – advance orders for OEM installs or corporate licences that haven’t yet been fulfilled (and some may never be if Vista continues to exude unwelcome odours).
You’d expect Mac market share to have grown on the back of the iPod/iPhone extraganza. However, it doesn’t follow that all those new Mac users are necessarily ex-Windows folks. Some could be and likely are new users, of any age. In any case, if Window users were that disgruntled they would long ago have left the platform in droves. But they stay, and in many cases moan. A lot of people probably don’t think much of Windows and Microsoft’s greedy ways, but the OS came with the machine, it’s about “good enough” and, besides, they completely lack the technical know-how to make a switch to anything. It’s very hard to see this changing any time soon, especially as in my country Macs are at a price premium however you do the sums and Joe Average isn’t going to find Linux on sale in any high street store because it isn’t.
Linux is still there, for those who want it. If you want Linux, it’s there and it’s good. And if you don’t, no problem. Pass on by.
Apple, no doubt about it. Already I notice more and more switching or thinking about switching to OS X from Windows. I hear about no one doing the same for a Linux desktop.
Maybe in 3-5 years time, Ubuntu or some other distro will have matured enough to gain traction among normal users.
Apple, no doubt about it. Already I notice more and more switching or thinking about switching to OS X from Windows. I hear about no one doing the same for a Linux desktop.
I may not hear about individuals switching to Linux (actually I do, but I’m surrounded by nerds), but I do see news articles all the time about whole companies, school systems and even whole governments switching to desktop Linux. Never Macs. So you may be able to point to tens of people switching to Macs, but I can point to thousands switching to Linux.
Linux will beat Macs in marketshare the same way MS did; by being available anywhere in the world, all the time, on all hardware for cheap.
You’re absolutely right. The price of admission is too high to make a switch to Apple. I know some school districts don’t have the money for new hardware, so it’s more cost effective for them to reuse hardware that is already paid for but may be outdated as far as other operating systems are concerned.
the interesting thing is whats going on in the european nations…
at one point, most nations there with any sense of self-respect had its own computer brand or more.
these where used by government, schools and similar.
then they all got replaced by wintel more or less over night.
now we are looking at said nations trying to take back control from corps outside of their own nation. take back the ability for a nation to be self-sufficient to some degree when it comes to tech.
linux allows for this in a way that mac or windows do not.
Here in Italy nobody is even remotely considering switching to (buying) a Mac. In fact if you ask people, 99% of them have never heard of OS X/Macs.
And in any case the prices are almost double, and that is extremely important in the current economic climate.
On the other hand I know quite a few people, in this small town, who have switched to Linux.
I have an iBook. It is a cute little machine. On the other hand, I have a POS Dell Dimension in the basement with an 800 mghz p111 running Linux. I could go through all kinds of gymnastics( i guess) to get osX to run on it, but , I have better things to do. The point being that osX runs on Apple hardware, Linux runs on virtually everything. Now I know that there are going to be those who say, I tried to do this and it wouldn’t support my XXXX video card, wifi card, etc. You can get a linux box for $199 from Wal-Mart, or go to your local builder, and get an acceptable, fully supported machine for under $500 all day long. For $199, I just may have a go with that Everex green pc.. you just can’t get a mac for that kind of money.
I started with Windows, then with Linux and in ’05 bought a Mini Mac…still my #1 OS is Linux, Debian at that.
Only reason I keep Windows around is because of the job related useage.
Only reason I keep Windos around is so I can run my Tax software.
Everything ends just like it started, one day the empire of MS will all be but a distant memory. Like IBM they were once Big Blue now they have sold off their PC division to China, not really a leader in any area. Yeah they have helped the OpenSource movement, but they are a mega corp and look out for the CEO’s…
Linux Distro (x)’s will eventually win out since it is so flexible and its ability to adapt quickly to change. The community is strong, growing and really in its infancy one day like everything else it will be MAINSTREAM as in the main option. MS is at a cross-roads, yes they can get the contracts for licenses but everybody comes home. When the younger Linux Admins (such as myself) move upward in management positions the Windows will be thrown out with the bath water. Plus the old MS guard will be gone, thus the loss of license renewals and purchasing of MS software.
MS does not think about this scenario that is inevitable in the business world. Change will happen, it will take them little by little but taking on water is just the start, the tsunami of OpenSource movement including Linux (distro x) users, programmers, users and so on will overtake the MS ship and send it to the ocean floor…
Optimism is a powerful thing but…
Microsoft isn’t showing signs of weakness. Microsoft has long gotten away with selling unstable and/or insecure products without any real damage from the competition.
Now that Microsoft is trying to make better software only makes it tougher for the competition to make an entrance into Microsoft’s dominated space.
IBM has been around since the 19th century. I see Microsoft surviving so long too.
Edited 2007-12-16 01:47
Optimism is a powerful thing but…
Microsoft isn’t showing signs of weakness. Microsoft has long gotten away with selling unstable and/or insecure products without any real damage from the competition.
Now that Microsoft is trying to make better software only makes it tougher for the competition to make an entrance into Microsoft’s dominated space.
IBM has been around since the 19th century. I see Microsoft surviving so long too.
IBM has been rocked, first off they have downsized a lot of jobs and lost the entire pc market. Second, they were almost wiped out in the 1980’s early 1990’s, they are not really strong in any area today. Sure they got some global services but AIX, zOS, AS/400 is not setting the world afire, other solutions are available and their support is one word EXPENSIVE.
Microsoft can tank with the best of them, no different than the Titanic touted to be unsinkable, lets not forget the Enron fiasco… I do not see the inroads being made by Microsoft right now, Vista is NOT being accepted or rolled out in the Enterprise, Office 2007 is nothing more than some eye candy and the same old bloated conglomeration from the mess they put together or the other companys products they bought out. I have seen the tables turn on them, I worked in a Enterprise that had over 10,000 RHEL3 servers (grid environment), and they dumped MS. I made a change to a smaller company and they have a Production RHEL environment with no signs of purchasing MS products for the Enterprise bread & butter.
These losses may appear small but when you add them up yearly they are losing the money, it is going to another vendor than MS. Erosion starts minutely over time it quickly erodes the base like houses in California that collapse in mud slides. No company is immune and untouchable, Microsoft like other big Mega Corps can collapse, by the way CompUSA is closing its doors…
Just the fact that Dell is offering Desktops/Laptops available with Ubuntu tells you they are not going to be caught with their pants down. It is about business dynamics and MS may try to hold on with Licenses but look at Europe, China and the rest they are ditching MS and they are not winning the software wars. Even in India Linux distro (x) has taken hold and it will not be removed with any bribery from MS.
Another fact is how much water does a MSCE hold today, it has lost its appeal and luster. I could go on and on, and name other big MEGA Corps that have bit the dust, just because they are flying high today means nothing tommorow…
Extra note, the surveys are not completely valid, for one reason I can change my browser to report it as IE and WinXP or IE7/Vista so my Fedora8 box would be counted as a Win Machine…
Either which way, like the Titanic being the biggest did not win in the end…
Edited 2007-12-16 03:56
IBM is anything but a small company, and is hardly “strong”. What geeks time and time and time fail to realize is the motivation of money.
Do yourself a favor and look at the bottom lines and profits of IBM, Microsoft, Symantec, or whatever other binary only company. Then look at the bottom lines of those companies that sell Open Source. Especially look at REDHAT, which has been around for over a decade.
What you see is that open source does not make money nor pay. At the end of the day money makes the world go around whether you like it or not.
You talk about Compusa closing its doors, want to get into a competition of how many open source companies had to close their doors? Additionally your Compusa comparison is completely beside the point because it is a company that sold PC’s.
Sorry, but from my vantage point I don’t see Microsoft going downhill. On the contrary, you will see that 5 to 10 years from now Microsoft will have turned a corner. Their last quarter proved that they have managed to put their pieces together.
Not to be rude but there are counter arguments to opensource companies making money. A strong one being that Suse is the only thing in Novell that is making them money.
Now I am a Linux user but I think its foolish for use to think we will displace MS anytime soon, in the next 5 years maybe Linux and Mac can carve out about 30% of the market as thing move along.
“Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM”
Think about that quote and how it would work if you applied it in todays market. When you go out and buy a computer do you choose one with the IBM logo? What happened to IBM can happen just as easily to Microsoft.
IBM burnt through approx 8 Billion turning their business around just so it could survive in the post monopolistic state. How much money is that equivalent to in todays terms? How much money will Microsoft have to burn through just to survive?
Remember IBM once led the computer Industry now they follow. The market is very unpredictable.
“Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM”
Dell is easier to manage and a lot better hardware in my opinion today, IBM has specific tools to work with their hardware and they COST a ton of money.
IBM is not the same company, they are a shadow of their former self, NO pc division, really nothing to write home about with their servers, really no storage EMC has that covered. No Operating System to set afire, AS/400, z/OS mega bucks and locked in.
Microsoft can go under, I am sure a lot of people felt that Enron would be around forever to, but look what happened. Mostly now IBM has tried to become a services company really servicing what???
Red Hat is growing and expanding their lineup, more offerings and the hottest Certification in the business. Microsoft MSCE does not really hold water anymore, it has lost its luster and companys are not moving to Vista so that is the flagship of MS…
Sounds like the Titanic has hit an iceburg and it has taken on some water, the trick is can they survive the leak or not? The underdog is hungry, MS is lethargic beast floundering around trying to squash anyone and everybody who is a threat. Meanwhile an entire userbase of software that is FREE has taken hold in the Enterprise, if that does not say something someone is asleep behind the wheel. I would not put my eggs in a MS basket I am sure people at Enron felt how high can this stock go I got $1 million in retirement now then the curtain was pulled back and the place was afloat with nothing.
OpenOffice is another example, FREE and it works great no virus infections, no license fees, then you got Evolution email client, FireFox seems to me naysayers are not in reality or they are scared the wave will take them out to the ocean. For example, you can take a RHEL5.1 Server and replace a few Windows 2K3 servers easily and have it locked down without worrying about viruses, hacks and so on due to the fact of implementing SELinux…
MS is scared and rightly so how, the catch is people develop and make OpenSource better because they want to not because it is a 8/5 job. That is the biggest difference and the fact that Linux was built for networking…
If MS was not worried about the future of Windows they would not be producing Windows Core without a GUI interface that shows they are grasping at straws. I am done with MS and I have been done for quite a while. I took a hobby and made it a career and another contender taking away from MS is VMWare…
Well, at our office of 70+ something desktops I’m looking to leave XP as soon as our last crucial 3rd party application will be available under Linux. And that currently looks like to happen in 2-3 years or so.
Meanwhile, we’ve dumped MS Office and using OpenOffice, IE is blocked and Firefox is the default browser for all staff. Thunderbird is used instead of Outlook or Outlook Express. VLC Media Player is used instead of WMP. These last steps are something that a very big portion of Windows users can do (or have done). And from that base at one point of time switching to Linux will be pretty hassle-free.
And then tens of servers are Linux already
Are they the defaults and users have a choice or do they have to use those? If the latter, that’s really weak.
Hmm.. In the company environment a computer is a tool for work and wide choice and liberal approach to these tools would mean support nightmare, higher cost, etc.
Does an airline pilot have much choice which aircraft type is flown on which route? Or can worker in truck assembly plant choose how to assemble a truck?
At home of course everyone will use whatever software they like. And in fact even there I’ve been told by my many colleagues that they have installed Firefox are using it as primary browser at home as well (as the’ve seen its efficiency compared to IE at office work).
IE I can understand because it could be labeled a security threat.
But OO.org and Thunderbird are generally inferior solutions when in a corporate environment or even a medium business environment.
Anyway, mandating software vs. supporting only certain software is a fine line. If someone really prefered Outlook and MSO, you wouldn’t let them use it? Even if they were trained to use MSO and are very comfortable using it over something like OO.org? You’d be hurting their productivity.
Using Outlook and MSO is also a cost issue and who’s gonna pay for that software if company defaults are OpenOffice and Thunderbird?
The cost savings of MSO+Outlook versus OpenOffice+Thunderbird are substantial and even training cost included this switch has been profitable for us.
And I also do not agree with productivity. I general office environment, as ours is, people hardly use 5-10% of office software features and in that sense it does not matter whether it is MSO or OOo.
If it was my company, and I was thinking of hiring someone to operate an Office suite, and they couldn’t cope with a switch between MSO and OpenOffice … then they just flunked their job interview.
OpenOffice is very similar to operate to MSO. Everyone I’ve seen can fairly readily use either one … even relative novices. If someone can’t operate OpenOffice.org or is afraid to try, then they can’t really operate MSO worth a damn either.
Edited 2007-12-17 12:25
//Well, at our office of 70+ something desktops I’m looking to leave XP as soon as our last crucial 3rd party
application will be available under Linux. //
I guess that’s a start … but my office of 7,000 desktops will be going to Vista in 2008.
Edited 2007-12-16 03:30
and out of business early 2009 ?
Can you tell wheather it was your choice or imposed by CIO? And is it something technical that would not allow to move to some Linux desktop?
Though I prefer Linux/BSD, I think Mac has more of a chance of getting “disgruntled” Windows users.
People will go with Mac over Linux or the like because they’ll probably be more comfortable going with a real company that can provide them support. Also, Apple is much more well known to the “non-technical” population.
Also, Linux and BSD are great if you have a good amount of technical skills, and some patience occasionally (usually only for devices). Though *nix never gives me any trouble (it’s so much easier, especially for developing software, than Windows), it can be problematic with devices occasionally. I stopped recommending Linux to people when I started getting a crapload of questions about “how to do this” or “how to do that” or “this isn’t working”. It’s just not meant for the general population. And if Linux/BSD becomes that way, we geeks just might not like it anymore (unless, of course, all of those changes stay on the distro, and no t the kernel, side)
Though I use Gentoo for Linux, when I installed Ubuntu, I think it was probably the closest to Windows (as far as “ease of use” of setting up things goes) than any other distro. I think Ubuntu has the greatest chance over any other, IMO.
People will go with Mac over Linux or the like because they’ll probably be more comfortable going with a real company that can provide them support.
Actually this is an area where Apple might find themselves in trouble. They simply doesn’t care about their customers and in the end this will come back to bite them. Some examples: They don’t hesitate to turn modified iphones into paper weights, they tell developers that OS-X will have premium Java support, and just a few years later they just change their mind without warning. On the server side they have abandoned their customers three times, leaving them with no upgrade path as A/UX was changed to AIX, just to after a short while be totally discontinued, leaving no viable server solution for several years.kk
Under the circumstances companies like Red Hat is much more trustworthy. They offer support for seven years. They offer resonable upgrade paths from one version to the next. Similar things can be said about Novell, and Ubuntu LTS. Switching to Linux doesn’t mean that you have to give up dealing with a real company.
Hacking iPhones was never supported by Apple (that’s why it’s called hacking). If users choose to do things that void their warranty, it’s their own fault. BTW: There’s software to revert the hack. After using this, the iPhone should function normally.
That’s just plain wrong. Shortly after the Tiger launch Apple said (paraphrased): “Listen, we won’t update Java-Cocoa in 10.5.” (That’s two and a half years in advance.)
Really? In which country? Here in Italy definitely not. Hardly anybody has ever heard of OS X/Macs.
Add the cost factor (Macs in Italy cost more than twice the equivalent PCs) and you have a recipe for total fiasco.
Really? In which country? Here in Italy definitely not. Hardly anybody has ever heard of OS X/Mac
In the US, where they advertize heavily on TV, have a lot of very succesful retail stores, and are regularly seen in mainstream TV shows and movies. And like it or not, the US is a rather more important market than Italy.
Edited 2007-12-16 04:58
I don’t mind. I see Italy as part of the EU (which is the largest economy in the world), and to my knowledge Macs are very expensive everywhere in the EU.
Sure, Italy is part of the EU, but you can’t extrapolate lack of awareness of Macs in Italy to the rest of the EU. The awareness may be much higher in France or in the UK for example.
As for the pricing, they’re considered expensive in the US as well. But that’s seperate from whether they’re well known to the general population (which is what you responded to). Mercedes-Benz is very expensive, but pretty much everybody knows them.
I don’t think so. I lived in the UK till a short time ago, and I can’t remember Apple advertising their computers, nor a lot of people who knew about OS X and Macs.
Nope, it is no different in the UK. Here, Macs are seen as way more expensive than a better powered PC.
Also, in the UK, there is a stigma attached to owning a Mac. Either you dont know how to use a “real” computer, or you are gay.
No jokes, the homosexual population in the UK has a higher percentage of Mac owners than PC owners.
“the homosexual population in the UK has a higher percentage of Mac owners than PC owners.”
Would you care to cite your evidence for this bizarre assertion.
No, I do not have any convincing proof, however, go on any gay forums and have a poll, the majority will be on Mac.
try http://www.skunkspace.com for some not too explicit examples.
No, I do not have any convincing proof, however, go on any gay forums and have a poll, the majority will be on Mac.
That’s not a too good poll…What about those who don’t have a computer? Or those who don’t just use such forums? Also, do you mean only gay men or do you also include gay girls?
This is crap. Do you know any gay people?
Look at the reasons behind the facts, don’t just quote figers blindly.
It’s been proven that there are more hair dressers with hiv then in other market segments. Why? I’m sure you upon seeing that headlined on geeknews.com you would conclude that it’s because most hairdressers are gay. Completely blind to the fact that it may have something to do with cutting hair with scissors and shaving people with razors. Gee maybe that might also be a cause of the higher number of hiv sufferers in the hair dressing industry? Maybe, who knows. You certainly don’t.
Yeah, a lot of deisgners are gay, designers use macs ergo macs are computers for gays… idiot.
Lots of linux users have a real hygiene problem and are socially retarded. I hear most are virgin’s in to there late 40s. Maybe this why the mac attracts new users and not linux.
Who would you rather be? A cool designer type (who may be gay) that some idiots aspire to be like (money’s all that matters), or geek who has a dodgy washing routine (and could be a virgin).
I’ve heard that most computers get a new operating system from friends, or people buy a new one based on a friends suggestion. This bad for Linux, because as everyone knows, only geeks use Linux. They are no good at talking to anyone and don’t have any friends anyway because they have computer jack plugs stuck in the arse 24/7. That’s my blind and stupid idea based on dumb stupid schoolboy thinking, like you use. But I bet there’s more truth to my comment then yours.
Since he implied that Swedish students are gay I don’t know what you’re so upset about. Unless you’re Swedish. But we Swedes know that real gays are across the strait. Danskjäääävlarrr!
Are you sure you replied to the right post?
‘Nope, it is no different in the UK. Here, Macs are seen as way more expensive than a better powered PC.
Also, in the UK, there is a stigma attached to owning a Mac. Either you dont know how to use a “real” computer, or you are gay.
No jokes, the homosexual population in the UK has a higher percentage of Mac owners than PC owners.’
That’s what I was replying to. Wher’s the implication that swedes are gay? Looks to me like he was talking about the uk? What’s it look like to you? Even if he was talking about swedish students what has that got to do with anything?
Lots of linux users have a real hygiene problem and are socially retarded. I hear most are virgin’s in to there late 40s. Maybe this why the mac attracts new users and not linux.
You have a way with words and I agree with your post
But I just feel inclined to enlighten the rest of the people that I personally know _more_ girls using Linux than guys and none of them are over 30 
Apple Europe just doesn’t run TV ads for Macs. The last one I remember was a translated version of the iMac ad shortly after the Intel switch. There’s no “Get a Mac” on TV even though Apple translated these ads for their website.
Well, few people in Denmark have heard of OS X but most people know about Linux and FreeBSD. I believe the latter has more users in DK than Mac OS X.
Outside USA OS X is virtually non-existent.
From a certain point of view, it maybe so, still, the EU is not a market that could be easily dismissed, even if we just look at the sheer size of it. And, living in the EU and having travelled quite a lot in and outside the EU, can confirm that Apple prices in the EU are such that I wouldn’t ever even consider buying any Apple products here. I happen to be in the US from time to time, and I’ve thought about getting a macbook on my next visit, but that’s it. You just can’t conquer a large market by prices being double of similar products. Yes, you can come with the mercedez benz or bentley or other examples, but they didn’t conquer any market as of yet. Usually I only see Apple laptops at larger internatonal conferences or meetings, usually used by American attendees.
> And like it or not, the US is a rather more important
> market than Italy.
You can argue that in the US as a whole there are 1. more customers, 2. there is more money to get. So, however important for managers, the US figures of Apple _sales_ in the US are in no way representative for the overall development of Apples worldwide market share in comparison with Linux.
I’ve at home in three EU countries, and I personally have _never ever_ seeny anybody “switch” to a mac. At the same time I’ve encountered loads of “average computer users” using Linux and having no problems with it: IT people, engineers, companies, schools, pensioners, my own parents, and so on. Comparing to these real life figures I’ve only heard about mac users on internet forums. I’ve never seen an Mac ad on television.
Apple isnt interested at all in increasing their overall market share, since they are primarilly interested in increasing their sales and profits, maybe the same way luxury car manufacturers like Porsche are.
In regard to IT-technology USA is an underdeveloped country.
Like it or not but the rest of the world isn’t a state in USA (and no, we don’t care about your presidents, we don’t care about internal issues and no, we generally don’t care – but we do think it’s funny to see floridans vote :p )
From a global point of view USA is becoming increasingly irrelevant. The future market is primarily China, India and Europe.
Oh but we do. They provide excellent entertainment.
Can’t you see this is a land of confusion?
my take is this;
if you look around, and the new mac users there mostly docters, account ppl, etc eg professionals….
most of these ppl live on there computer and have software they have to have running and need support and stable OS. eg, MAC.
for joe six pack, grandma etc they will head to best buy, walmart etc and buy the cheapest thing that will run there games, and they software that they have. period.
so, over time MAC will gain much more then Linux on the desktop. server.. much different matter….
-Nex6
// mostly docters, account ppl,//
Funny, I just setup two Vista laptops for 1.) a urologist and 2.) a CFO.
As always, YMMV
sheesh…
If you look arround, at *most* of the new converts *other* then collage students…. they tend to be professionals. so, how does the fact that you setup a few laptops with Vista even matter?
and how is it funny? sure, i setup alot of mchines for docters, and all sorts of ppl and 90% are windows, the rest are docs etc that are wana be geeks and want Linux or macs. I dont do macs so i send them to the apple store….
point being, joe six pack who only wants his PC for porn or games probly is not going to get a mac or Linux. he going to get the cheap box that runs what he knows… and can run the software he already has…
-Nex6
//joe six pack who only wants his PC for porn or games probly is not going to get a mac or Linux. he going to get the cheap box that runs what he knows… and can run the software he already has… //
When are you going to get out of your mother’s basement?
Joe SixPack? How about 90% of business users? The only people buying Macs are those who don’t know any better. Probably like yourself.
excuse me? business users do not have a choice(they use what the company gives them), we are not talking about corpland.
and what the hell are you talking about? we are talking about where new users *are* comming from. they are comming from professionals. and just for your info; i dont even own a mac. but, i work in a large shop and lots of the suits have them bring them in and expect to use them on the corp lan. and i dont see sally the secratary or jo the jaintor getting one i see the professionals mid tier and above getting them.
and for your misguided and unexperinced mind; more and more software in corp land is going SOA and being webized. tho we are still a long ways away from being OS agnostic the day will come.
mothers basement, thats funny… no; I mean really funny, becuase my mother died 10 years ago.
thats it jack…
-Nex6
Anyone care to guess why the stats for this site:
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=10&qptimeframe=M&…
which shows Linux at 0.57% is quoted instead of this site:
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp
which puts Linux at 3.3%?
The former seems to be quoted a lot recently.
Edited 2007-12-16 02:04
Scroll down the the bottom of the w3schools page and find out for yourself!!
“…Different sites attract different audiences. Some web sites attract professional developers using professional hardware, while other sites attract hobbyists using old low spec computers.”
W3schools is a rather….specific audience.
W3schools is a rather….specific audience.
Ok, so what, marketshare.hitslink.com is supposed to be super objective or something? Where do they get their stats from?
Arguing about whether Linux market share on desktops is zero dots or one dot on the radar is hardly interesting. Both numbers are more or less indifferent and spell the same word.
There’s a huge difference between ~,6 and 2.6 and 6.5 (depending on countries covered by stats, the kind of websites covered by stats and so on).
Net Applications is simply not a place to get stats unless you want to see stats for the most virus-spreading sites on the net.
This is true. For example, sites which are IE-only (and there are quite a few of those still) are going to attract a vast preponderance of Windows users. People using Linux or Mac, or even people using Firefox on Windows, are quite likely to saty away from such sites.
So, in order to end up with a very low market share figure for Mac and Linux, all that you have to do is include a healthy proportion of IE-only sites in your statistics gathering.
The hitslink data is based on the returns given by users of netapplications web usage monitoring applications used in the corporate sector.
w3schools is a site aimed at web developers.
While the hitslink data may partially skew against Linux if the average Linux user is less likely to visit these corporate sites than the average joe public user, I think the results are not that far off.
Some people raise the question of browser spoofing pointing out that many Linux users may have their browsers set to give the IE on XP as their browser and OS. However I expect that this is not that significant. I have the user agent switcher plugin on my Firefox on Ubuntu and over the past year I have never needed to use it, so I browse with:
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071204 Ubuntu/7.10 (gutsy) Firefox/2.0.0.11
as my user agent string. I think agent spoofing is quite rare now as IE on Win only sites have also become very rare, in part due to the success if Firefox.
Overall I think the hitslink data is about right for North America anyway. Linux usage is most likely about 1% to the nearest integer.
However the trending of the hitslink data is very interesting:
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=9&qpdt=1&qpct=4&q…
Linux growth has been very rapid over the past couple of years especially the last year. Linux usage increased by 54% over the year and Mac increased 20%. Windows usage declined by 1.5% over the same period.
Exponential curve fitting over the 12 month data gives a five year extrapolation for Linux to reach 5% usage. However this may be an underestimate as the extrapolation on the 24 month data is lower indicating Linux takeoff is currently faster than exponential.
Who knows what the future may bring.
Edited 2007-12-16 07:50
It is more than that.
There are quite a few “corporate” sites that are Windows+IE only. They include things like ActiveX controls, and the sites just don’t work on standards-complaint browsers, they require proprietary IE browser and Windows to display at all.
So, if you want to present a figure which shows very very low Linux uasge, all you have to do is gather hits statistics from sites which are IE only. You could also afford to include a few general sites (such as Google) without getting the Linux usage figures from growing too much.
Biasing the sample set is the oldest trick in the book to make statistics say what you want them to say.
Edited 2007-12-17 01:02
I said:
IE on Win only sites have also become very rare, in part due to the success if Firefox.
You said
here are quite a few “corporate” sites that are Windows+IE only. They include things like ActiveX controls, and the sites just don’t work on standards-complaint browsers, they require proprietary IE browser and Windows to display at all.
Name one I have come across sites that will display in Firefox but not IE. I have not in the past year come across a site that requires IE and Active-X.
I know the Banks in Korea and China require this but here in Canada as far as I know all bank websites will work with Firefox on Linux and do not require Active-X. I believe the situation is similar in the US. OK this is not so much due to the banks acceptance of Linux but due to their recognition of the security risks of Active-X which is why they changed their systems years ago.
As a matter of interest name one or more major corporate sites that is IE only. In the last year of browsing I have yet to find one.
Australian Taxation Office on-line tax return is Windows only.
Microsoft update is Windows only.
http://www.pinoymac.org/forum/showthread.php?s=8e37fdebfcfeebfbe0be…
http://ie-only.com/
http://www.spreadfirefox.com/node/28674
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1419
http://www.tjrforum.com/showthread.php?t=532
http://www.littleblackdog.com/viewtopic.php?t=32470&view=previous&s…
http://www.anybrowser.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viewable_With_Any_Browser
Shocking.
You have not given one major corporate site that is IE only. Most of the examples given are outdated and are now accessible with Firefox.
You give reference to a number of sites that are campaigning for for platform and browser neutral accessibility. The point is that these campaigns have been broadly successful. The web in North America an Europe at any rate has become accessible without needing to run IE. This point is hammered home by the reference you give to the IE plugin for Firefox, where the reason they give for needing this plugin is:
This is a great tool for web developers, since you can easily see how your web page displayed in IE with just one click and then switch back to Firefox.
It’s purpose is to stop IE users being shut out of the web
.
I checked out a couple of sites I remember hitting problems with a few years ago. The Marks and Spencer Catalogue in the UK and viewing videos on CNN.
The M&S site used to refuse access to Firefox it is now quite happy with it. CNN videos used to require ActiveX to play its wma videos, which blocked my Mozilla-mplayer plugin from playing them, CNN now use a flash player which is easily used on a Flash enabled Firefox on Linux. Two major sites that provided problems three or four years ago now accessible.
Here in Canada a protest campaign when the Canada Census Bureau’s census website blocked Firefox and Linux users from completing their census form on-line caused a turn around. Now the Canadian Government has committed itself to providing it’s on-line service in a platform and browser independent way. Revenue Canada used to provide a program for certain tax calculations that my wife needed. Originally it was a win98 program that at least I could run on Wine. Then they went to Java (rah!) but implemented it such that it would only run on Win and Mac not Linux (boo!). Now after all the complaints they are replacing it by a web based server side Java implementation that is platform independent.
We have to avoid the cult of victimhood, over the past few years there have been great successes in opening up the web but we still have to be vigilant and fight for open access wherever it is challenged.
No one has named a major corporate site that currently blocks Firefox and Linux. Name one or more so we can challenge them, if they exist.
Edited 2007-12-18 14:09
1. We all know that the only people that care enough to read these articles, let alone comment about them, are people like myself that utilize EACH OS for its purposes.
2. Joe User walks into Best Buy or Circuit City, and doesnt have a choice of what OS to buy with his shiny new media center, bling bling, bells and whistles, look at all the pretty lights desktop or laptop. He isnt even offered a chance to pick his OS of choice. Bottom line, until Mac and Linux make the push to sell (or give away in Linuxs’ case) their products in an every day electronics store they will NOT be able to gain any more than 5% market share. Sure you can get Macs on the online store at Best Buy, but most users aren’t even going to bother looking in that section.
3. A few of you have hit on it already, but articles such as this are pointless and are put up here just to get the web site hits. DONT GET ME WRONG I love this website and get alot of useful information from it, and will continue to do so until someone tells me that I have to use IE to view it
– A happy Linux/Mac/Windows user
Another typical article which talks about Microsoft losing share, not about outdoing Microsoft.
The simple fact is, for almost every need, Microsoft has an OS to fill that need, and first-party support still unmatched by any competitors. Religious dogma powered by cheap knockoffs of commercial software (Linux) and flashy advertising with hip toys that require first-party lockin (Apple) can only get you so far. Pulling out FUD-loaded terms “freedom”, “lockin”, or “monopoly” as if they become true with enough repetition continues to avoid the issue: Nobody else is good enough to beat Windows.
Heck, the article even admits nobody can beat Microsoft but Microsoft: when Kingsley-Hughes talks about Microsoft losing customers, he doesn’t talk about a better operating system being made; he talks about customers frustrated with Windows trying out other software on a whim! Relying on people to get fed up with Windows is a dangerous game; companies should be trying to get a seat at the same table, not fighting over Microsoft’s scraps.
Position flows from value, nothing more. And until the rest of the industry realizes this, and decides to do what Microsoft can’t as opposed to trying to FUD their way into market share, “Microsoft’s competition” will continue to be an empty set, and the software market will continue to be a one-man show.
pretty well said
Thank you for some good insight. Too long have the people in the Linux community believe that the only reason MS is the market leader is because they strong-armed the OEMs. Fact is, Windows has always been there fore most users, when the alternatives weren’t. When Macs were super-expensive and the big Unix companies were fighting their wars and aiming at the high-end market, Microsoft tried to make something out of the fledgling desktop market. They offered an OS that worked and did what real people needed, and for cheaper than the competition. Yeah, DOS was crappy and Windows before NT were barely real OSes, but they did what people needed, and for the most part, they worked without requiring users to know about kernels and command prompts and configuration files. Yes, MS has made some mistakes with security and stability at times, but that has almost completely gone away and now they have XP which is a really great OS. It is actually very stable and well-engineered. The main problems with Windows are now cultural, leftover from the 9X days. In time, people will become more aware of security issues, as will software producers, and the security issues will begin to fade.
And then there’s Linux. So many developers and users are convinced that Linux is simply the best and anyone who disagrees is an idiot or MS shill. That attitude does not lead to excellence. It shows. Look at the Linux desktop. I’ve been using it for three years. And honestly, I haven’t seen much improvement. A few bugs got fixed. We got Compiz (yay…). New projects were announced that haven’t really shown results. There’s been a bunch of Ubuntu releases which are marginally better. But seriously. In three years, why has Linux failed to produce a usable, stable and featureful desktop?
I think this goes to show that the bazaar model simply does not work for producing advanced and solid software. All of the best open source projects have a corporation behind them, or at the very least a disciplined and well-organized team of developers. The bazaar model doesn’t work for the same reason that communism or anarchy doesn’t work: it simply does not scale. You *must* have structure and discipline to produce complicated works. Imagine building a skyscraper if you just had a bunch of people contributing to parts where they wanted, with no overall plan, and only the goal of having a skyscraper. Yeah, that’d go over real well. It only works in software some of the time because certain software projects are small enough, or straightforward enough, that they can be developed in such a way. Also, software engineering is a very immature field and most software produced is still very ugly and brittle. So bazaar can sometimes do as good as cathedral. But in time, Linux and the bazaar model will not be able to produce innovation or even keep up with the competition (it’s already having enough trouble doing that, especially the former).
I don’t think open source is a bad idea. I don’t think community involvement is a bad idea either. But it is not the end solution. I think in the end, most OS projects that aren’t backed by a company or a strong organization will die off, and proprietary companies will embrace a more open source model and we will all benefit. It may be too late for Linux, though.
So given all that, it’s no surprise that Microsoft is still leading the market. They really can out develop the Linux folks and will be able to do so for a while.
And btw, lack of hardware specs is not the problem. Even on machines where everything is open source friendly, Linux is still sucky. It needs more help than hardware specs. People would put up with unsupported hardware if there was some other value in using Linux. Right now, there is becoming less and less of a reason to do so.
“The simple fact is, for almost every need, Microsoft has an OS to fill that need, and first-party support still unmatched by any competitors.”
I cringe remembering the last support call to Microsoft… with some foreign person who, not only could I not understand worth ****, but he couldn’t understand me either… AT ALL. No matter how crystal-clear my English was (I am a native English speaker, and do not have any speech problems). You know those 25-character-or-so “Product Activation” codes? Yeah, those… I recall having to say a word for *every* letter just for the person to understand it. 😐 25 characters… plus almost as many words just to clarify… every single letter. Don’t get me started on all the waiting on hold to connect, and all the transfers between different “departments” just to get to this English-handicapped, cheap, foreign worker Microsoft has hired to do a job they can barely even do in the first place.
Yeah… unmatched support alright. And that’s just the last time calling, due to… you might have guessed it… WGA. I don’t even want to remember the previous calls to Microsoft. :/ I would say Nintendo has “unmatched” support… but Microsoft? Hell no. Not even close to good.
Linux nor Apple has the ability to overtake MS’s grappled-hold on the market. It is more of MS making a very nice set of mistakes with their OS… again, that is to say Windows 7.0, in 2009-10;
From here to then we will see Vista improve, while Linux and Apple both remain far ahead in some areas( user-xp-enhancing graphical goodness), and far behind in others(latest hardware support, full feature support for all drivers, latest multi-media codecs, performance (yes, Windows is butt-loads faster in many applications ( take GoogleEarth, which is dog-slow on Linux ( well, Ubuntu at least), while it SCREAMS on Windows).
Then, Microsoft has the come-back chance with Windows 7. A Vista-like debut of Windows 7 could knock off maybe 5-10% of their user-base, which is likely already down by a few % from migrating users ( with a pretty even split between Apple/Linux, with a slight Apple advantage, but a good number of Apple converts may like to try Linux ( made one switch, why not another? ) or maybe even Haiku (which will offer an interface familiar to users from both worlds, while being very different – could be a good position to be in).
BUT, if Windows 7 turns out the way it could ( without requiring upgraders to repurchase everything…again ), but instead being capable of running on virtually any hardware, and able to provide graphical goodies adjusted in finiteness to the user’s hardware capabilities, without any over-bearing anti-piracy additions, a simplified and not-too crowded or busy interface, just functional and clean and something nice to look at and work with… then Linux will be slammed into the ground (though hardly abandoned), and Apple will be the only possible competitor for a couple years while the Open-Source model tries to adapt to a paradigm shift from Microsoft.
That is to say, that should Microsoft ever actually follow the open-source community’s recommendations, they would in fact “beat them”, but then, that will be only for a year or two ( there are only so many things you can do based on the same under-belly ( even if you manage to strip the top layers off and replace them, your stuck with the pre-ordained form ).
All I can say (other than the droves I have said), is that we are entering some interesting times in the IT world, if not a bit boring at times ( we have a ways ‘ill Windows 7 is released, MS says 3 years ( so about 5 or 7 or 10, if you want to factor in historical correctness )), and the possibility of real competition emerging in this current post-XP pre-7 era is rather thrilling.
We may just get a good OS out of all this. And that would mean that the consumer actually wins one for once!
–The loon
well said
The answer is with the oem’s. How did Windows become prevalent? Because MS made sure that every OEM shipped their software. Well, as we see now, OEMs are tired of giving away their thin profits to MS. So they are starting to ship linux. When enough of them have done this and shown that it works, you will see a mass exodus away from MS. Why would you pay the MS tax if you dont have too? It will start with the gadgets, then proceed to the business desktop. Then joe average will want the same thing at home that he has at work, so he can work from home. I think the only thing holding PCs up is gaming. And I am sorry to say that I see it moving to the consoles for the most part.
Maybe you’d pay because you want software that works, does what you want and looks nice? Seriously. People who believe that the only reason MS has the market is because of OEMs are idiots. It is a fantasy some Linux nerds have because they simply can’t accept that Linux is really sucking right now. The Linux community needs to stop being so blind and start working on making software that works NOW and does what people want NOW, instead of complaining about MS. Some developers have seen the light and produce technically superior software. A lot of others seem intent on cloning MS or creating more fragmentation. The fanboys are of no help.
The way Apple has been going lately, a better question might be “Windows vs. Linux: Which will win disgruntled Apple users”
I use windows xp and redhat at work, mac os x at home. I dual boot os x and windows xp on my mac mini, and I recently bought the latest version of ubuntu (live cd) and booted it on my mac. Ubuntu looks really good on the mac and the fancy graphics/effects were enabled and ran smoothly as well. Also, OpenOffice ran pretty quickly on Ubuntu, faster than NeoOffice does on OS X.
I would say Linux has a better chance to take larger hunks of the market from MS than Apple and OS X, but OS X and Apple will always have their niche.
Linux is currently fragmented into many areas of computing (server/desktop/mobile) with no overarching strategy at play. Desktop is doing desktop, and mobile is doing mobile, each segment is in relative isolation with varying degrees of success.
This is a shame, because Linux is blessed with openess, there should be little hampering inter-connectivity, the internet being a beacon to what is possible.
Linux could thrive in a scenario in which i could go out buy a TV, and hook it into my local network, grabbing whatever content i want beyond and above the regular broadcast transmissions…
But inter-connectivity should go beyond simply having access to data. Some linux-savvy company or companies need to start creating a range of consumer devices (home fileserver, TV’s, mp3 players, phones, pc OS’s, hifi’s) that all are willing to talk with each other to some extent and are aware enough to leverage the unique strenghts of each device.
Here’s an off-the-top-of-my-head example: An evironment where my tv or hifi system can connect into a local network; recognise that a smart-phone is in its vicinity, and dynamically offer the ability to leverage the phones interface as an adhock remote control…
Linux needs to build a information sharing and device interactive ‘ecosystem’. This is the trend at other companies such as MS, Apple and Sony. In theory they have an advantage because they can offer overarching and unified strategies across an entire product range. And yet they’re constantly succeeding at hampering themselves with DRM and similar attempts to insulate their own ‘ecosystem’ from that of their competitors.
Linux can welcome anyone willing to share.
Surely this is a huge opportunity just waiting to be grasped through an awarness that openess could be a ticket to riches.
Edited 2007-12-16 04:22
I think the desktop winner will probably be ReactOS when it gets ready for Prime time. It has whe Windows look and feel and compatability that Joe Sixpack wants along with the FOSS status the Stallman geeks want.
My view on why linux isn’t growing as fast as it could. IMHO:
1. Linux offers WAY too much choice. Customers DON”T WANT too much choice. Ask any successful sales person! Steve Jobs culled the apple line to four machines to actually remove choice: Two pro two consumer, one OS. Linux by contrast has enough distros to fill a very large , erm, warehouse.
2. customers don’t want cheap. In the history of capitalism / consumerism its never been about cheap its always been about perceived value. They pay what they think its worth. If an OS is free and people aren’t using it then the problem is one of two things: a) people don’t know about it. b) people don’t think its worth the price tag.
3. What is linux’s value proposition to consumers. Consumers don’t care about openness, they don’t know what that means. Apple is very clear about communicating its strengths to the public. Linux by distro or as a collective don’t communicate to the public at all.
In a nutshell its all about the marketing. The only distro that seemed to be on the right track was Lindows. I can’t remember what they are called now (again a sad state of affairs). Its not about technology or about openness its only about good ol fashion selling.
I have nothing against linux. technically its amazing. But that’s not the point. I recall a line from Pirates of Silicon Valley:
Steve: we’re better than you are
Bill: It doesn’t matter
> 1. Linux offers WAY too much choice. Customers DON”T WANT too much choice.
There are _LOADS_ more of software for Windows than for Linux. According to your logic, people should stop using windows, because there is too much softwre available for it.
> 2. customers don’t want cheap.
Thats why nobody is buying those “cheap” Eees nowadays. You dont know what youre talking about.
> 3. Consumers don’t care about openness, they don’t know what that means.
That is true. But openness is the primary reason Linux, Free Software and Open Source get created at all, and you cant resent their enthusiasm about it. Its the disributors job to advertize the qualities of the products for Average Joe, and I fail to see how, for example, Ubuntu, doesnt do that.
> Apple is very clear about communicating its strengths
> to the public.
And concealing their weaknesses (high end prices, hardware dongle). And even, while successful doing that, it in all these years didnt manage to do better than Linux.
I think you missed the point(s).
1. I was referring to the number of os veriations not software titles. Linux basically has too many distro’s for average joe to make a decision (granted, Ubuntu is starting to change that).
2. Look up supply and demand for homogenous vs. non-homogenous goods. Then look at where PC’s, Macs, Windows, OS X , and linux fit into that. its really not that complicated, people are always willing to pay what they perceive something is worth. In reality, a diamond is an almost worthless (and common) rock.
3. I’m all for Open source software. its great, so what.
you fail to see how ubuntu doesn’t do that. Do a random survey of people on a street and see how many people have heard of Ubuntu.
“and concealing their weakness” – its called marketing.
PS: Just because you don’t agree or don’t understand doesn’t mean the other person doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
So what you’re saying is that consumers are too stupid and apathetic to understand or to give a darn about “openness”… the freedom GNU/Linux offers; we’re so brainwashed by “brand bullies” that we’ve given up thinking for ourselves and no longer want “choice”? I pray you’re wrong!
over all, that is what i’m saying. People will often try to arm themselves with knowledge before they buy something. But lets face it, when it comes to software, average joe doesn’t get it.
Most people who walk into a store to buy a computer want the salesmen/saleswoman to make the decision for them because they don’t feel informed enough to make a decision. The same is true for other goods!
Techies I believe are inherently more likely to look into the technical merits of anything they buy. Don’t assume other people behave like that! I research the hell out of everything a buy but when a buy a suit (for example) I find myself looking to the salesperson to help me reach a decision!
The only way Linux could take prevalence over Widnows is if a distro get secure regular OEM sales with large companies, looking at an advert for PC’s in a UK newspaper I can see two machines that could win in this context – A £349 laptop with Vista & 1gb memory and a desktop of similar specs for £299 – If vista was switched out for linux of somesort £50 or so could be reduced from the price.
I know that some will say that Dell have Ubuntu, but if I asked 99% of people buying a PC in the UK they wouldn’t A. know what ubuntu was and B. know that dell sold machines with it.
Now, most consumers with enough support and help would probably go for the Linux option, if ENOUGH support was given of course, shops would have to have staff who understood the better points of the two OS’s (It would have to be sold in a Mac vs PC sort of way…)
IMHO, Linux will only be making small ground until it can gain some big OEM contracts, and, I don’t see this happening until the general public are educated on the better points of a Linux system vs Windows system.
Who actually cares? Linux has a lot of users right now and to me that is more than enough. And why should we even want some disgruntled Windows users to start using Linux? They probably wouldn’t be happy with Linux either anyway. Besides Linux just ain’t for everyone yet..If it was completely up to me I’d just guide all those “disgruntled users” to Macs and let them be Apple’s headache.
This site is bogus and hates me. They hate God too, aparently. That’s okay–He hates the arrogant. He makes stumbling blocks to keep them away. He hates me too, sometimes, probably.
Did I mention I have an operating system. You hate me and like to insult me. You won’t do any stories on me. You suck.
God says…
LATER GILDED TORE
guided tour? See http://www.losethos.com
But I for one don’t understand what this pre-occupation with trying to guess the future.
For me, Linux’s future isn’t on the desktop – there will be people who will continue to run it, but where the focus should be is on mobile devices and servers. Applications are going to move to technology like Adobe AIR (and to a lesser extent, Java), so whether the operating system actually is important will cease to be a deciding factor later on.
In the end, does it matter if Linux doesn’t gain a huge market share? no. What I’d sooner seen is more operating systems, and Windows to shrink to 20%, and share the lime light with other operating systems and forced to work within organisations rather than running off and developing their own ‘standards’.
There is no use shifting from one monoculture to another monoculture. We need to move from what we have now to a diverse environment where software vendors are forced to use multi-platform technologies, and hopefully, herald a ‘new age’ of competition; where Microsoft maybe one day can accept that making a profit rather than dominating the world is a better path to take.
It’s true. Right now both Linux and OSX are the dwarves of the desktop market. However, both of them are moving rapidly to make a true bid for the desktop.
The Linux desktop has finally reached maturity this year, what with Ubuntu, PulseAudio, and stuff like that. Finally, the Linux desktop is good for normal users, too.
Also, OSX is gaining recognition due to Apple’s iPod halo effect. This is especially apparent amongst the current university student population, which is, after all, the next generation of computer users.
Finally, Linux is gaining recognition as an operating system for low cost and small form-factor systems.
Compound all of that with Vista frustration, and you might be surprised at what will happen.
After seeing Vista and using it for a while, I’ve gone OS X. I use Linux as a web and email server as well as for all of my LAMP projects. But for desktop use OS X just fits the bill for me.
The author went off the edge in his first sentence:
“””
Apple and Linux are engaged in battle – a battle to win over disgruntled Windows users.
“””
Linux exists to attract disgruntled Windows users? Really? Why should Linux and MacOSX users and developers, essentially on the same “side”, be at odds? Are Windows users really disgruntled?
It’s definitely a concise collection of falsehoods; I’ll grant him that. Three false premises in just 15 words.
Next story please. This attempt at putting me and my OSNews comrades who happen to prefer MacOSX at each other’s throats just didn’t work.
Edited 2007-12-16 14:29
> Why should Linux and MacOSX users and developers,
> essentially on the same “side”, be at odds?
Because Free Software like Linux was largerly created as a replacement for proprietary systems. And regarding proprietarity, Macs are even more copyrightly anal than Windows, considering you cant even install them on commodity hardware. If Apple were in Microsofts position, we wouldnt have only a OS monopoly, but also a hardware monopoly. Other computer OEMs probably wouldnt even exist, since the monopolist’s OS wouldnt work on their machines.
“””
Macs are even more copyrightly anal than Windows, considering you cant even install them on commodity hardware.
…
If Apple were in Microsofts position, we wouldnt have only a OS monopoly, but also a hardware monopoly. Other computer OEMs probably wouldnt even exist, since the monopolist’s OS wouldnt work on their machines. [/q]
“””
True, but irrelevant. Since it is *exceedingly* unlikely that Apple could gain a monopoly position without opening up far more than MS. In fact, it would still be exceedingly unlikely even if they did. Ditto, Linux. Even MS couldn’t gain a desktop stranglehold today if they did not already have one.
Let’s not lose site of the real, extant monopoly… the one that is actually doing the damage. It makes no sense for Linux, the *BSDs, or pretty much anyone else outside of Microsoft, to feel adversarial towards Apple.
As Kang said in “Day of the Dove”, “Only a fool fights in a burning house.”
Edit: And OSS will only be at its best with some proprietary competition to keep us on our toes.
Edited 2007-12-17 17:06
I predict that free software will not become a major player in industrialized nations unless economic conditions either causes hardware to become unaffordable forcing users to cut cost by any measure or a recession pushes large business to seriously consider cutting IT costs by moving their desktop clients to a free software platform. Once the industrialized nations adopt free software other nations will fall in line. This of course is as long as users don’t just move to online applications (i.e. a Google platform).
So, I ask if the price of broadband is forced higher because of economic conditions at what price would you drop your high speed connection?
He’s using numbers from Net Applications. Move on, nothing here of value.
Neither until Microsoft’s control of the distribution channels for REAL consumers is lost.
1) Microsoft controls all the distribution channels that matter. Which ones matter? The ones that REAL Joe and Jane consumer shop at for computers. Until there is a Linux Store which is similar is model to Apple Stores Linux will not start to make huge inroads into market share.
But … blah blah blah blah blah. What percentage does Linux have of Joe and Janes business? Almost zero. Why? Go to any store where THEY buy computers and try to find a Linux computer. You can’t? There’s your answer.
2) People WILL NOT buy a computer with an operating system over the internet that they have never used until it is proven they will be able to use it out of the box.
3) Apple is proving this day in and day out that Mac OS X is not only usable, but for close to everything except gaming, it is better than Windows. For gaming, buy a Wii or PS2 or PS3.
4) Linux is not ready for Joe and Jane consumer. If you have to go to a command prompt for ANYTHING, and I do mean ANYTHING, then Linux is not ready for Joe and Jane consumer.
If you have to take more than three steps TOTAL to find and download a program for Linux. Then Linux is not ready for Joe and Jane consumer.
For example: Go to webpage, type in type of program you are looking for, click on program to download and have it download and install without ANY further things to do. Zero. Ok. They have to accept that they really want to install it. NOTHING ELSE!
Linux does not have to APPEAR to be as good as Windows. It has to APPEAR to be much better. Look at Apple ads. Look at them again. Look at them 50 times. Did I say it has to BE BETTER? No. I said it has to APPEAR to be better and that has to translate into appearing to be better when they sit down to use it too.
What do I use? A Mac. I’ve been using computers and several OSs (different versions of one OS count as one OS) since 1981. I’ve been building and using pcs since 1983. I’ve been building and supporting multiple OS servers since 1984. I’m technical enough but I’m also tired and lazy when I get home and I don’t want to put up with **** anymore.
Most people don’t want to deal with BS on their computers. Yes the geeks and nerds that come here do but you are the EXCEPTION not the RULE. Get over yourselves and look at the real customers out there and see what they want, not what you want to give them. ONLY THEN will you start to see what you need to offer them and only once you have that to offer will they even have a chance to be interested.
People do not want to install things. They do not want to configuring things. When they go to their computer they want to do what they came there to do. Keep track of their money, read and write e-mails, surf the web, play simple games (most people are not interested in high end graphics or games).
Apple figured out what you need to do to start making progress. It takes a LONG TIME to turn a big ship around. Customers are a big ship and it will be about TEN YEARS after Linux is ready for Joe and Jane before most Joes and Janes will be seriously interested in Linux. It isn’t there yet so the ten year ticker hasn’t even started. Get busy, FIX LINUX, MAKE Linux Stores. You’ve got a lot of work to do. Apple is ahead of you. Linux being Free or not, Apple is ahead of you.
1) Outside USA the OS X usershare is pretty much 0 % whereas Linux in several European countries have a userbase larger than 10% (especially in the former Eastern Europe).
Your beloved Mac does not exist overhere. Go into any computer shop in Denmark and there will ZERO Macs for sale. Ipods yes, but no Macs.
2) Buy a operating system? I don’t have that many billions to play with, and Amiga Inc. seems to charge an obscene amount for AmigaOS, but besides that it could be fun to buy an OS. Of course you might have meant buying a license, but who would pay for that?
3) PCLinuxOS, and many other distributions prove everyday that Linux is – at least – as mature as Windows and OS X (whatever little that is worth).
In that case no OS is consumer ready. Windows occasionally requires command line as the only option to solve a problem (or hack around limitations), and the same goes for OS X.
That’s exactly my point. Microsoft controls the distribution channel.
As for my Mac be my “beloved” I would have to say no. Compared to Windows it doesn’t suck.
Yes Linux is as good as Windows now. But as I said, most people can’t find Linux computers in stores. So there they can’t buy it even if they wanted to. Meaning a computer with Linux already installed on it.
And as long as average Jo and Jane have to go to a command prompt for anything in Linux it WILL NOT be ready for them. I stand by that.
I never wrote that OS X suck. I just wrote that also OS X needs things to be done through command line. There is no OS where everything can be done solely through GUI.
Come with some examples of actions that require using command line in Linux but doesn’t in OS X or Windows. I’ll guarantee you’ll get it right back in your head.
It is perfectly possible for Average Joe to use linux WITHOUT using command line. Command line is no more necessary in Linux than in OS X or Windows.
You have a really good point, but it is a matter of degree. It is some pretty obscure stuff that requires the command line in OSX. The vast majority of troubleshooting in linux requires the commandline. But for the simple browse the web/im/word processing stuff, you are totally right.
With common hardware, one can install Sidux/Mepis/*buntu and never have to touch the command line for anything.
With OSX, I recently had to use the command line to enable a friend to create new root and admin passwords. She forgot her original root/admin passwords. There is an OSX vulnerability (feature?) that allows this. By the way, in this situation, the Mac “Geniuses” recommend reinstall or buying software.
Unless I misunderstood your problem. The solution is to put in the OS X installation disk and select “Reset Password” this allows you to reset the root/admin password in a couple of clicks. No re-install or command line required.
You understand the problem, but your solution assumes that the Mac user who didn’t have the wisdom to record his/her passwords has held onto the installation disk.
Also, with some versions of OSX, your solution might take more than a few clicks, and it can be counter-intuitive and frightening — in some instances, one has to move through installation pages that seem to start the process of reinstalling (like getting the old Mac “bomb” icon).
The solution that I used also requires no re-install, with just a “^-s” during reboot, plus two or three short console commands. Depending on the OSX version (and on which console commands worked) one might have to walk through the new-user wizard to create a new admin user/password.
No disc necessary.
Edited 2007-12-18 20:08
Fair point. I guess the only reason I would know this is because I went looking for it.
Out of curiosity what commands did you execute to reset the password in the console if you didn’t have root access? Does the console at boot automatically grant you root access?
PS: lol, I remember that ol bomb icon. Every mac users greatest fear back in the day. Half the time hitting restart had no effect.
Here is what I did to reset my friend’s OSX admin password:
1. boot (or re-boot) the computer and hold down the command (“apple”) key and the “s” key.
2. wait for the console prompt
3. release keys
4. type (without the quotes): “/sbin/mount -uaw”
5. press enter
6. type (without the quotes): “rm /var/db/.applesetupdone”
7. press enter
8. type (without the quotes): “reboot”
9. press enter
During this second reboot, the OSX new-user wizard walks one through the process of creating a new admin account. Then, as the new admin user, one can go into the OSX user-management application and reset passwords for every user.
I must confess that the step of creating a new admin user generated a lot of anxiety in me, because the wizard asks for a lot of personal info for Apple registration. One cannot skip these pages and is forced through them. I guess those who have sipped enough of the proprietary software koolade are unfazed by this insidious mechanism of keeping tabs on users. As an open source veteran, I found it disturbing — we are never required (nor asked) to register ANYTHING.
There are variations on the above commands, but that is the process I used.
Edited 2007-12-19 13:50
Many thanks for the detailed reply.
Being a regular koolade drinker, registering doesn’t bother me but it is possible to skip the process. If I remember correctly, you just make sure you have no network connection when it asks you for the data. After the wizard fails to connect to apple it will allow you to continue and a registration file gets created in the home folder so that you can send your data after you setup a network connection. you just trash that file (or never open it).
The only time I have EVER had to go to the command line on my Mac is when I install Leopard and that was because of Logitech’s drivers that used APE. If I hadn’t bought Logitech keyboards in the past I wouldn’t have had to do that.
As someone that also has three distributions of Linux I can assure you that Linux does require me to go to the command line for things that I don’t have to do in Windows or Mac. (I support Windows computers at work.)
Care to mention which tasks performed by Average Joe can only be done through command line?
Configuring Samba through command line is too be expected. Configuring Apache through command line (or at least through a text editor) is to be expected. Not just for Linux but also other OS’es, incl. OS X.
OTOH, installing applications shouldn’t require command line (and usually doesn’t), nor should installing themes or screensavers require such a step. And they usually don’t – except for meta-distributions where such steps are the core of the functionality of said meta-distributions.
Yes Linux is as good as Windows now.
Purely subjective. That is a matter of opinion. I think Linux far surpasses both Windows and OSX. It has been superior to Windows and OSX for many years.
But as I said, most people can’t find Linux computers in stores. So there they can’t buy it even if they wanted to. Meaning a computer with Linux already installed on it.
I guess that’s because all the Linux boxes are sold-out: http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=203…
Actually, Walmart has restocked, but Frys, Walmart and Dell have offered Linux desktop machines for years.
There are also a lot of other places to get computers with Linux pre-installed, not the mention the EEEpc and the OLPC (Birmingham, AL just ordered 15,000, and Peru just ordered 40,000).
And as long as average Jo and Jane have to go to a command prompt for anything in Linux it WILL NOT be ready for them. I stand by that.
I disagree, as there are degrees of command line complexity.
In addition, Sidux, Mepis, *buntu, etc. don’t require commandline for anything, with common hardware. My 82-year-old mom use Mepis.
I didn’t know the Mac situation in the rest of the EU was that poor, here in Sweden probably everyone knows about Apple and Macs even though there are no Apple ads – it’s left to the retailer.
I see lots of people using Macs, especially students; the majority of student laptops in class are Macs. But on the other hand, we’ve got the highest student-with-mac-ratio in the EU.
The sentiment that Macs are for homosexuals and people who don’t know how to use a computer only exists in the gaming community as far as I know.
Swedes having the highest student-with-mac-ratio in EU?
Hmm… I didn’t know Mac had a reputation for being for homosexuals – I though the reputation was for being artistic, especially in the graphic industry. And last I checked those two weren’t synonyms.
However, it is consistent with the lack of real beer in Sweden :p (seen from a Danish POV).
My experience is that most “average joes” out there wants to try Mac. My father which doesnt know what windows is do know what Mac is and even consider buying one. Why? Because he heard from his friends/coworkers that its easy to use and little problems with it. At the same time he have never even heard the word Linux. It is that easy. My father has trouble with windows, so he sure as hell won’t move to some platform he never heard about and if he do a google search on the word Linux he will find mostly “is Linux ready?” or “halp my wirelezz wont work!!” threads.
I strongly believe that Linux will be the future…eventually, but as it is now its just not polished enough. My own experience after using Linux since redhat 5 is that there are just too much trouble getting stuff to work. Sure you can do mostly the same on Linux as you can on either a mac or a windows pc, but it doesnt help you if you cant buy a computer where everything just works with linux, while both macs and windows mostly just works as is.
But seriously…I dont think its a choice that needs to be made anytime soon. Most people dont mind windows because its there when they buy their computer. They dont know about anything else. They are happy with windows, and altough linux and mac IS growing, there will still be enough people buying windows computers to keep microsoft and windows alive for years to come.
Microsofts time is NOT over, and anybody who think it is are just really naive.
Well, perhaps my experience may be indicative:
OS X user for one year; upgraded machine, still runs dog slow, hacked off with Apple machismo, dumped machine likely to be broken up and sold off.
PCLinuxOS user for one day (installed just today) on a machine with less than half the power of the upgraded G4, runs fine, very, very easy to configure to me so far and polished (congrats to the team). Machine built out of spare parts of the same vintage as the original G4 (2000-2001).
Just for jollies, dual booting with W2K, for some of that nostalgic and authentic gaming experience (but maybe I’ll get around to using the linux install script for UT…)
Enticed away from Windows…well, no, but I ain’t gonna be looking at Vista, period.
Enticed away from OS X. You bet.
Apple, get hip, the hype ends here.
Microsoft, the old brown cow is good enough, and we ain’t gonna exchange it for any multi-coloured hill o’ beans.
FOSS world – thank you, really.
Linux’s raison d’etre is not to be a better operating system than apple and it certainly is not to be the place unhappy unsatisfied windows customers go. Linux has always won this ‘battle’ of the OSes by not fighting it. Some of the stats he has are, um a bit silly. They probably show installations, they can’t be “market” share figures in the true sense of the term. Are you saying that people are buying more Win98 machines and that they will continue to do so? Are you suggesting that because there are larger numbers of Win98 and WinNT machines that linux is struggling to beat even Win98/NT machines. I’m sure that’s not what you are saying, but you suggest it.
Linux users in general CERTAINLY do not view this as an epic battle against the “evil MS”. I like to think that most of us are level headed and we are, each camp will always have their fair share fanatics!
aaaaaaargh!!! I can’t believe people are buying into this guy’s premise of the superior os taking over. This is not a fight , and this certainly is not a fight of superiority. Articles like this make so mad sometimes. If we can even call this a fight, it’s not meant to be Last Man Standing Deathmatch. What most people want is not for linux to win, apple or windows to win – they want a level playing field. It’s this kind of thinking that creates these counterproductive monopoly structures!!!
Until GNU/Linux gets the basics right, it won’t get anywhere…
I still have problems getting my notebook to wake from sleep, I still have problems with dual monitors and changing resolutions (when is X going to be gone?).
I mean you can’t even have dual monitors with the ability for it to detect that you have unplugged a screen.
Linux distros cannot (and I mean no one) get the basics that windows and osx have had for years.
So what if linux is free and has tons of free software? It cannot get the average users needs done. I use linux for work and a mac at home, I prefer my mac for the simple fact that it doesn’t require so much fiddling…
If you buy a Mac the hardware is designed to work with the OS, and you don’t get problems like this. You can’t run Mac OSX on any machine other than a Mac.
If you buy a Vista computer, once again the machine is designed to run Vista. Vista won’t work on just any machine.
If you try to run Linux on just any machine, then you may have problems such as those you report. If however you run Linux on a machine which it fully supports, (just as you must do for Vista or for OSX), then you won’t have any such problems.
There are more machines that Linux fully supports than there are machines that fully support Vista or Mac OSX. Therefore GNU/Linux gets the basics right on more existing machines that either Mac OSX does or Vista does.
so now the mythical “average user” runs more than 1 screen?
Lets start by saying that 99% of the people who claim Linux is too hard for the average user, are not average users themselves.
Average users use their computers for email and internet. Thats it. Oh, and they may play a bit of solitare when they’re really bored.
Contrary to popular belief, average users cannot install an OS (nope, not even windows), most cant even burn CDs, install software, download windows updates, change settings in windows etc.
And the funny thing is, that all of these things can be done just as easily in Linux (and mac) as in windows, but we seem to stick with what we learnt first, and percieve that as being easier. We forget that we had trouble using the very first windows OS we ever used, and that our windows knowledge has been built up over years of using windows.
I think I’ve heard all the reasons why linux is no good for average users (or any users). Over the past 6 years the reasons have gotten oh so picky.
Once we had real complaints about linux not supporting most common hardware etc, then we talked about how linux needs command line expertise…
Now that all that has (arguably) been solved, we now talk about users not being able to see 100% rounded edges of fonts, or the screen is brown instead of blue.
My take on it all? Look at the facts people! Linux is still gaining more converts. When that stops, then you can call Linux “too hard to use” but for now it seems there are still thousands of new users every day who disagree with you.
The average users may stay with windows for now…
Linux doesn’t need to win anything, it just needs to do what its creators want it to, and mostly interoperate with other systems (which it does). It already does everything I need. I find windows painful to use now…
UNIX will win. No matter which flavour of UNIX.
I use both OS X and Linux on an Intel Mac.
As much as I like OS X as a business operating system my honest opinion is Linux will gain the most after the demise of Micro… .
Why?
The number of PCs, which are, with rare exception, crap hardware, outnumbers the base number of Macs. Linux is the only thing that makes these crappy POS worth the cost of the parts they are made from?
As-far-as a Mac being a `homosexual’s` computer, I had to laugh. One of my brothers is and his friends are and they all use Micro…. PCs. Not a Mac user one.
Edited 2007-12-17 03:44
OS-X has better chance.
1)It has more of the leading software ported for it..some what Linux’s free alternatives still doesnt even compare to.
2) OS-X is dedicated OS, while Linux tries to be “one size fits all – aka bloatware” type of OS that just confuses the average joe.
3)OS-X, like windows, just works (atleast in theory). Linux still has the hobbyist past shining through it and there is things that still doesn’t “just work” and needs user to read through dozens of forum posts and manuals to get right.
When average Linux user doesn’t necessarily have to even know what command line is, then Linux is as user friendly as the alternatives.
4)OSX has unified standards
Linux has .deb, rpm, paq, ebuild, tar, sh…..too many times my search for certain software that would do what I find ends up with me only finding an rpm what my ubuntu box cant use straight out of the box because the rmpackage is for fedora and installing it through ubuntus RPM would mess up my whole system.
(Yeah, I know i could convert it to deb, but as in number 3 I explained, person shouldnt be forced to go to commandline to be able to do what they want.)
Edited 2007-12-17 08:36
If there is an OSX port already, a Linux port shouldn’t be all that difficult from that point.
Just stick with the repositories of your chosen distribution. Debian/Ubuntu has the largest.
It is all the same code after all … just organised differently. Linux is still Linux. OpenOffice is still OpenOffice. It isn’t like they re-write everything 200 times for 200 different distributions. Trying to pretend that they do is just plain silly.
More stuff works for Linux, and Linux works on more stuff. For example, Linux will run flawlessly on any Macintosh box. OSX will ONLY work on a Macintosh box.
More stuff “just works” out-of-the-box for Linux than is the case for either OSX or Vista.
Linux standards base. It is all the same code after all …
I call FUD. If there is an RPM for it, more than likely there is also a .deb for it somewhere as well.
… you can do that if you have the source code.
If you don’t have the source code … install the RPM on Debian/Ubuntu with alien or smart.
Edited 2007-12-17 12:06
let me think about that one for a sec or less.. ah, I think I’ve got it: 100% of disgruntled Windows users have hardware to run Linux, 0% of disgruntled Windows users have hardware than can run OSX. Now I am off to write an article on that bomb-shell.
Is that 99% of windows users are lemmings. doH!
right? Flame on!
Which one corporate/business application developers are willing to code for.
If the field-specific apps come to OSX and not to Linux, businesses won’t switch to linux.
Example: Juris for legal, iScala for accountants, Rockwell and AutoCAD for engineers.
When these niche market software developers choose a side, so will everyone else.
Sad it works that way, but it does.
The Office/Internet/e-mail thing is largely a non-issue.
The numbers quoted don’t give you the whole picture. It gives you some total numbers (with a silly methodology — namely based and browser agent strings), but it doesn’t tell you the story about where and how the various operating systems are being used.
Windows dominates, yes. Perhaps a little less than before, but it is still dominant. But, the real key is WHERE it’s dominant. Linux is growing, but it’s most notable success has been in servers and has chipped away at Microsoft’s market share far more substantially (but they survey in the article looked only at browser usage, not likely to see many servers in there).
And for the Mac, a scarce 7% market share is small, but the important thing to note is Mac sales are almost entirely to home users (and conversely, Windows sales are skewed heavily towards businesses).
The market’s asymptotically approaching a situation where Linux is what you find on the server/mobile phone/appliance, Windows is what you find on the corporate desktop, and Mac is what you find on the home desktop. Mac, for example, may never take the dominant position overall, but it’s rapidly approaching the point where it’s within reach of becoming the dominant platform at home (with a very modest investment in product development aimed precisely at that goal, I think that Apple could easily accomplish that task).
I don’t see Apple and Linux competing for disenfranchised Windows users so much as the market evolving distinct niches.
I use laptop came preinstalled with XP(now vista) and all the softwares listed from
http://osswin.sourceforge.net/
No more headaches
we will never need linux as OS. Just give us OSS ported wo windows..
I think the one biggest advantage the Linux has (and it is an advantage created by its other “Free and Open” advantage) is that it is going to be supported by third-world countries simply out of self-interest.
Brazil has found that encouraging Linux has the effect of enabling them to spend money to hire Brazilian workers to create/support/document free software rather than spend money on foreign software. This is huge, and in the long run, I believe, will win out.
Brazil has found that encouraging Linux has the effect of enabling them to spend money to hire Brazilian workers to create/support/document free software rather than spend money on foreign software. This is huge, and in the long run, I believe, will win out.
Interesting insight, +1 you for that
Though, Mac sales in Brazil etc are probably VERY low anyway due to their high price. I’d imagine that Linux gains more and more users in poorer countries both due to costs and due to the ease of studying it’s internals and as such learning software programming (this translates into readily available work-force without expensive education). But in these richer countries I imagine Macs will slowly gain more foothold. I don’t really care either way as long as Linux (not meaning just the kernel here) itself continues to improve 
windows+osswin=best combo, no more headache
By rakamaka on 2007-12-17 03:54:24
I use laptop came preinstalled with XP(now vista) and all the softwares listed from
http://osswin.sourceforge.net/
No more headaches
we will never need linux as OS. Just give us OSS ported wo windows
Let me get this straight according to AK Hughes, the author: both OS X and GNU/Linux are gaining market share, but somehow Linux is being “squeezed” by OS X and Vista?
The Linux side will take care of itself, and ALWAYS remember that, for the most part, since it’s not sold (except primarily for enterprise use), you can never get an accurate “market share” number for Linux users. I got four people in my house with six computers. Five of those running a GNU/Linux distro. Am I counted as one Linux user or five? How would they know; how would I know?
Edited 2007-12-17 18:04 UTC
Windows users are not going to want to “mess” with Linux and you have to “mess” with Linux. With Apple you can go to their stores or online and pop you have a Mac. Clearly they are going to get a Mac.
I choose OS X over Linux, and Linux over Windows. I have thought of going Linux full time, but am happy with my MacBook and OS X.
I don’t know if or when Linux will seriously challenge Windows. As long as there is a need for configuration of text files to make things work, no one but the most technical will use Linux. If they can’t turn their computer on, have it recognize their wireless card and get online, they will stick with Windows, as bad as it is.
I will tolerate Windows when no other choice is available, but I don’t even want to run it part time via Parallels or Fusion on my Mac.
Apple Vs Linux – a beautified “Windows” against to some extent evolutionary software. No I’m not a Linux fanboy, but I’ve got common sense =)