DistroWatch is reporting about an announcement from Lindows about the imminent release of LindowsOS 3.0 on Monday. If you pre-order before Saturday, you can get a better deal, while this time the OS comes with a 30-day money back guarantee. Please note that LindowsOS 3.0 comes out only 2 months after LindowsOS 2.0 was released (our review is here). This version scheme seems to work well marketing-wise for Lindows as big sites (e.g. news.com) get to report on it.
Release Announcement: LindowsOS 3.0
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They are 5 major versions behind the big names out there. I know thats not really true but most people would look at being 2.0 and be confused by this. Course I think this is a major linux distro flaw in general. You have distro versions and kernel versions and all sorts of combo’s. A new person can be very confused by this. I don’t know if there is a fix to this. Aside from 1 unified distro, or distro version numbers based around kernel numbers. But hey at this pace they will surpise the likes of Redhat in a year
I guess they figured teh Cathedral and the bazzar mentality was a good thing, but they decided to do away with incrementals? I guess that is good marketing….would it not be wiser to offer say lindows 2.0 for sale…then every 2 months add an incrimental to it…offer it free update over the web to Lindows 2.0 owners and just package it for the box for new buyers?
I would much rather get Xandros than Lindows. It has a far better value proposition. It is funny that Xandros never spoke about Windows compatability but their product is far more compatible than Lindows. I mean you get crossover with it.
Also they seem to have taken an approach that will suit a lot of commercial developers and users from business and home.
I mean releases are going to be thoroughly tested and will not happen every month or so. Using one widget set is also an advantage. I know they package evolution etc, but the idea is QT where ever possible.
Also you don’t have a snake like Robertson running the show but someone who appears to be a straight talker.
I’d imagine Robertson probably figured Lindows wouldn’t drum up much interest if they had 0.X type versions.
If you already bought the “betas” for $99, you can get the shipped version for $20, with finally, a manual. Hmm, except for the initial Microsoft compatibility claims fiasco, Roberstson has been pretty smart in his PR and hype. And, I have to admit, despite everything, including running as root, it’s a very stable and attractive product for Joe Users.
Andrew, you know, it’s fuuny, for awhile there is seemed like Xandros was going to be vaporware, but they really did come through. Also, good point about Xandros not overstating Windows compatibility.
Hmm, what’s new about 3.0? Did they fix the run as root bug? It seems really strange to be releasing another major version after only a couple months. I seem to remember not long ago that Redhat said they were going to slow down their release schedule in order to support one version for a longer period of time. Lindows ought to follow suit. I think this is good for customers, especially the kind of customers Lindows would like to have. It’s less confusing for a non-technical person to have a stable platform that doesn’t change much that they can get used to. Such a person might be also look forward to an upgrade if it was a significant improvement that only happened once in a while.
I guess you can tell from my posts that I am not a Robertson fan. I probably should not be calling him names. Sorry.
I apologize if I have offended any Lindows users.
I do think that the two companies are interesting case study. They appear to have very diffent promotion strategies, especially the PR part. They also have different distribution strategies. Right now Lindows has the channel partners.
It will be interesting to see who if any succeeds. I doubt it will be both. You never know though.
I don’t think claiming compatability with Windows was a mistake. We all started paying attention then! Without that claim it would be just a commercial linux distro (which is what it is now) with nothing extra to offer than the free ones.
I don’t think this has anything that the RedHat download doesn’t have for $99 less.
Dave, I think you are right. It also goes along with the choice of name -> designed to get attention
It is actually amazing, because the name is incredibly cheesy. I mean, “Lindows”.
One thing you have to admit is that windows could last for years. With linux, you have an update to the kernel every 6 months or so?
What we need is a highly modular design (microkernel)
We need something where we can keep the base framework of the kernel and upgrade all of the drivers and modules around it, and if needed, finally upgrade the core.
With distro’s coming out every year, it seems weird.
If someone can make a Linux distro that can LAST with the core parts not needing the whole thing updated every few months, my friends THAT is something joe user can appereciate.
I remember that I read that GPL sources for LindowsOS will be made available once a public version is released and that this public version will be 3.0. Now, I’m waiting…
You only can get it if you pay for it. If you already paid, then visit http://my.lindows.com and download it.
>>What we need is a highly modular design (microkernel)<<
Well, you have the Hurd for this, if I don’t mess with my memory.
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http://korbinus.fr.st
I would say even though Xandros might be better than Lindows (I didn’t even seen its screenshot), I would say Lindows has a higher chance of succeeding. Past the hype created over it when it bought Corel’s Linux assets, it is hardly mentioned in the press.
Lindows on the other hand is very good in publicity, een though most of it they get is bad ones. The press is hyping Lindows as the easy Linux yet from what I have seen from it, it is a little easier than your new breed Linux distributions (Lycoris, ELX).
Xandros on the other hand barely gets mentioned in the press. It is mentioned a whole lot in the Linux press, but what corporate executive is gonna make buying decissions from “$99? That is SO expensive” crap?
But I beg to differ in terms of marketing. Xandros is tonnes better in this sake. It has a clear target market, the corporate market. But I think their initial target market is rather large considering the market’s size, its competitors and their company’s strenght. While Lindows say they are targeting the office user, but clearly the people making the product couldn’t care less about their target market.
Tell me, why would a corporate enviroment need easy installations, single user (unless you do know how to use certain CLI ultilities), and Click-n-Run? That is beyond me.
My prediction, both companies are bound to fail unless either company practice both good publicity (e.g. making sure their target market know they exist) and good marketing.
Unless you want to stay on the bleeding egde, you don’t have to use the latest kernel. Meaning, that if you are happy with, say, 2.2.x, stick with it for all we care. It may be actually better than sticking to a old version of Windows.
Plus, wing, a lot of servers run 2.2 till today. Some still use 2.0. Unless you are desperate for some new feature or need every ounce of performance, your claim is completely false.
Microkernel doesn’t fix a problem that doesn’t exist. What would change is that you don’t have to recompile the kernel for each new module added and remove. And may I ask, how often does a user does that? (Besides, I just have to note that Windows too uses the modular (somewhat) monolithic kernel design, similar to Linux).
The Joe User probably won’t appreaciate the fact that they don’t need to recompile their kernel to add modules. Heck, I doubt they would ever venture that far. Linux distributions hold up pretty well. Currently, I’m using Mandrake 8.2 in the background on another machine. I might switch to RedHat with 8.1 or Mandrake if they fix all the stupid bugs, or just jump for SuSE if shipping cost is cheaper.
While yes, Linux is updated every few months, but they do it because they want to. Not because they need to. Notice most Linux developers are doing it for fun, not to meet release schedules. I’m still using a rather old kernel version (I tried compiling 2.4.19 on my Mandrake 8.2 machine but it ended up with nonstop kernel panics, I didn’t bother to try to fix it, so I revert back to the original). I’m perfectly fine.
I just wish for your sake there was one grain of truth in your post, but I can’t seem to find it. Besides, turn your direction to Darwin (OpenDarwin if you may). Aren’t they release new version every few months? And it is used in the only desktop commercial OS with a microkernel (or something closer to a microkernel than a monolithic one).
This whole ‘single-user’ thing baffles me. Both Microsoft and Apple have moved away from single user systems and are making a big deal about it. Now Lindows actually chose to use a single user environment on a multi-user system? To ease what exactly? Having to type in a password when you install software? OH NO! In return you get virus and security risks. What a joke.
Lindows is playing a remarkably nice marketing game and so far with a lot of results. To come like that from nowhere and get the stage is a major achievement.
And who Lindows target group user cares about the root issue, really? There is no root in my washing machine or in my microwave oven. No ordinary user will _ever_ understand this root thing and it just has to go away if a consumer linux desktop is to gain popularity. Running as root sure makes your life riskier but it’s risky to go out and see people, too.
And who Lindows target group user cares about the root issue, really? There is no root in my washing machine or in my microwave oven. No ordinary user will _ever_ understand this root thing and it just has to go away if a consumer linux desktop is to gain popularity.
No ordinary user will ever understand this root thing unless someone teaches them. Unless you haven’t notice, a lot of computer users at home have multiple users. If all of them have to use the same desktop, it would be another source of conflict. Plus if all are root, what happen if the five-year-old decides to destroy the computer.
So what’s the problem with a true multi-user computer?
If it is the fact one must select a user account and type in a password, this should be made optional. KDM supportss automatic logins, and IIRC, the same for XDM and GDM.
If it is a issue of typing a password everytime one installs a piece of software, than the distributor should work to make packages that doesn’t require pure-root for installing basic software, while requiring root for things that change system software.
There is no problem to the concept. Mac OS X and Windows XP had introduced it to the mass consumer market, if they saw a problem with such a idea, they wouldn’t have done so.
Consumers don’t want a dumb-down interface. They want something they can be productive with, that is easy to learn, and not overwhelming. Removing many useful options wouldn’t score all too well for many. Might get a grandma to on a PC every other month, but this group isn’t all that profitable.
The concept itself is very simple. You are the administrator password, and only use it when you want to change some system settings. If my parents, of all people, can understand that, anyone could.
LindowsOS is NOT, repeat NOT, a single user system. It is, however, set up to run as one user – root – by default, exactly as Windows is, I might add. You have to add more users. It’s Debian underneath it all.
My prayer is that they have some sort of User Manager in 3.0, and a better way to add users, since in 2.0, you still have to use the command line. Otherwise the run as root thing will still be an issue for the mentally inflexible.
The family desktop PC begs for a multiuser setup. The machine I am currently posting from is shared by me, my wife, and our four year-old daughter. It dual boots Windows 98 and Debian sid/unstable. Under Windows, everyone has access to everything, and we worry whenever Laura (the four year-old) starts to play with MS Paint, because she might leave the program and stumble into explorer and wipe out something important.
Under Debian (or “the penguin computer”, as my daughter calls it), we each have our own login and password. For simplicity, I have set up kdm so Laura only needs to click on her login icon and press enter, so she doesn’t have to type in a password. Her desktop doesn’t have access to anything that could screw up the system, but is filled with kid-friendly applications.
The “run as root” mentality has to die, because it encourages users to do things that could trash their machine. The washing machine analogy is really bogus. Under WashOS, there is no root option, because the everyday use of the machine is clearly a user activity, not a root activity. People only need to learn that root means something like “washing machine repair”, not to be used just for washing clothes.
Great points coming to this discussion, thank you!
The household stuff is not anything harmless. The 4-year old daughter can put the family pet rabbit to microwave oven or turn on the washing machine without turning on the water. There is no root access to stop her from doing a lot of damage. Practically all household equipment is dangerous by default so as long as that goes on, there is little chance of getting “ordinary” mainstream consumers to understand why the PC with so little apparent risks would require special care. Families with technically alert members have a different situation, of course, but all the families that I know who don’t have such members are lost here. Start lecturing about this issue and you’ll get the blank stare (“What is he talking about … hmm what’s on telly this evening …”) 🙁
Most families will place dangerous stuff (chemicals, drugs, flamethrowers etc.) out of the way so their kids don’t mess around with them. Windows does that too. In Linux, there’s nothing stopping you from writing to raw devices: want to copy a floppy to your HDD? Try ‘cp /dev/fd0 /dev/hda’. DON’T DO THAT! (You won’t get any of the content from the HDD back…) Having users being non-root will prevent them from doing so, and that’s a good thing. Think of it as keeping your poisons at different places than your food. If you need poison, just open the door. You’ve got the password.
Windows, on the other hand, isn’t a very good multi user environment. That’s probably not the OS’s fault though in itself, but the fact that many programs are unaware of the possibility of not being run as administrator. (Running Q3Radiant in Windows 2000 didn’t work if you were a common user. I hope it’s fixed now.) In Linux, I’ve never experienced problems being non-root.
This may sound a bit petty, but…..at $99 it is $20-30 more expensive than any other distro. I just will not shell out that kind of money. I can get Win XP OEM for $99.
Well, let the flaming begin……
> You only can get it if you pay for it. If you already paid, then visit http://my.lindows.com and download it.
Lindows may request money for providing it. But once some one other have the sources, he can provide it to me for free. So you’re wrong, I don’t have to pay to get it.
There are going to be not GPL arts to the distribution. Like click-and-run, the installer etc.
The only way for Lindows to become a multiuser system is via non-graphical methods. Methods no average joes would use. To them, Lindows IS single-user. That’s my point.
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On the GPL issue, the GPL doesn’t force a manufacturer to give the source code to everyone. It must do so for its customers. One of the fatal flaws of the GPL is that using a well versed NDA, it would make it virtually impossible, legally, to redistribute the sources.
I used to hate Lindows and their slimy CEO, but they have done a good technical/marketing job in a short time. They care for useability, they care for beauty, and they care to get a market. That IS good. Of what value is a good product that nobody uses (Read: BeOS). Geeks will not make linux successful on the desktop. People like Robertson will.
I don’t understand why it costs $99 to download the thing. This is a break from the Linux distribution tradition for sure.
Kris
>>
I don’t understand why it costs $99 to download the thing. This is a break from the Linux distribution tradition for sure.
Kris
>>
Somebody has to pick up the tab. It is only fair to be paid for your work if you so choose. The dot.com bonanza is ended!!
I’m wondering when Lindows will decide to release “Lindows 3.11 for Workgroups” – It would be funny to see the resulting law suit if they were to do that
I think it is true, especially now that Lindows is going to have a color installation manual, that they could, in one short page, explain what root is and how it’s better to add yourself and whoever else as users. Who knows, maybe they’ll move away from running as root.
The subscription cost of Lindows is all a matter of perception. To people like us it could be considered outrageous. But, to those who have not used Linux before or don’t want to get involved in learning how to download and install software, it’s a bonanza. And it isn’t just that it’s easy – it installs so that the app goes into the correct category in the launch menu. That’s what ordinary people want.
I have no love for heads of computer or tech companies and their lies, hype and BS. But, Lindows is on the verge of being a break-out product. So, it is very interesting to see what happens.
> There are going to be not GPL arts to the distribution. Like click-and-run, the installer etc.
I don’t expect them to release non-[L]GPL based sources. But all others like the one against KDE if any.
I just got a Lindows email. Among other things, it said they are going to go to a more regular versioning scheme – 3.1, 3.2, etc.
3.0 just has some bug fixes
Am I the only one who thinks the name “Lindows” sounds stupid?
If Lindows is going to piggy back and follow MS announcements of new products, I wonder when Pocket Lindows will come out, along with the Lindows .WEB platform. Then or course there would be the Lindows.WEB Server. Finally what would they call XDocs surely not xmLdocs
All these products would of course just be announced and nver actually produced, much like the Windows compatibility.
Ideally 10.00 to buy distro, 10 for clik n run,
25.00 for distro , 10 clik n run would be ok
50.00 for distro, 10 clik n run would be absolute maximum they should charge.
laugh if you want, but the thought of spending a 100 dollars on Linux makes me laugh.. and shake my head.
What Lindows should do is come out with pricing 1 for
it’s first year, use pricing 2 for the second, and
in year 3 go for pricing scheme 3, and promise to stick
to this.
Anything more is a gougeorama.
Now you might say: Lindows is doing this and that….
So what ?!
They like the rest of Linux is going up against The Beast! Sure it is cheaper than buying Winders by itself but most people get Winders with their computer so they
see the cost of Winders as 0.
It is easier to entice someone with a low price despite all the benefits of Linux, than with a higher price.
You have to establish your market. That takes time.
A lot of people dismiss the “free as in beer” appeal of
Linux, but it is one of the most potent weapons in our
arsenal … and needs to be for quite some time.
PS no charge for this consultancy.
(To OSNews staff: please make a better commenting system, with threads!)
Lindows is based on other Linux distros, it’s not completely original. No other distro is single user, and there’s no point of making one. ksudo will allow you to do any root task by typing in your password, and that’s just like it should be. There’s NO reason why you should have to type into a shell to be root in KDE, and, to be honest, LindowsOS is just fecked, when it comes to understanding the true multi-user system Linux is underneath all this.
(sorry for all spelling mistakes. I’m Norwegian, and I’m drunk)
Maybe their trying to catch up to Microsoft or Apple in terms of versions?
LindowsOS 95, 98, 2002… XP????
LindowsOS 8, 9, X?????
Drunk ehh? Which explains why I am going to say the next two words: Your point?
Of course, Rob, people would think that Lindows is in the same quality of that first (terrible) version of NT. But then people might compare the true and look at Lindows in a better light..