So, the deal with HTC isn’t the only partnership Microsoft entered into today. The Joomla! project has announced that Microsoft has signed the Joomla! Contributor Agreement, meaning the Redmond company is now a contributor to this GPL project. Microsoft code has already found its way into the upcoming Joomla! 1.6 release, and closer cooperation between Joomla! and Microsoft will follow.
The news was announced by Open Source Matters, Inc., the not-for-profit organisation behind Joomla!. The fruits of the closer cooperation between them are already finding their way into the code base; Joomla! will be better optimised for running on Microsoft’s IIS, while it will also be delivered through the Web Platform Installer.
“Microsoft signing the JCA is big news for the Joomla! community. Not only is this the largest organization to ever contribute code and to agree to the terms of our contributor agreement, but this means Joomla! users will get improved performance and usability of Joomla! on Microsoft’s IIS,” said Ryan Ozimek, president of Open Source Matters.
“We’ve always had a portion of our community that has been IIS-based, yet we haven’t been able to offer the ideal level of IIS support and integration,” Ozimek added, “With the new agreement in place, Joomla! will not only offer tighter ties with IIS, but our community can better work with Microsoft to make improvements or address future engineering issues. We’re very happy to have Microsoft as part of our GPL development community.”
So, what exactly does it mean when they say they’ll be working closer with Microsoft? “Microsoft has helped here by providing test environments (with a lot of us being Mac users, IIS testing isn’t the first thing that comes to mind or the easiest thing to do),” explains Joomla! developer Sam Moffatt, “With the release of 1.5.16, we’ll have solved some long term bugs with IIS compatibility and be able to provide support for IIS on the same level as we have for Apache.”
This is good news for Joomla! users. While contributions from Microsoft will almost certainly annoy armchair internet lurkers, they will provide a better user experience for those that actually use Joomla!, and improve the overall product’s quality, while at the same time, the GPL will ensure the continuing benefit of these contributions.
if we knew what Joomla! was without having to look it up. Come on seriously, would it be that hard to put in a one-line summary of whichever product is being discussed?
0) There’s Google.
1) We’re not Wikipedia.
2) There’s Google.
3) I’m assuming a certain level of knowledge among our readership.
4) There’s Google.
5) It’s impossible for me to know exactly what everybody knows. That’s why I’m not explaining what the Workbench is when I’m writing a news item on the Amiga, for instance. I’m assuming that if you’re reading an Amiga news item, you’ll know what the Workbench is, and if not, refer to 0), 2), and 4).
Oh, and of course, you can always Google a product name you’re unfamiliar with.
Edited 2010-04-28 16:34 UTC
Thom, it’s good journalism practice to at least give some context for your articles. That means giving at least a summary (one sentence would have done fine) of what exactly you’re writing about. The “there’s Google” argument can easily be applied to you (and should), as you’re the one who is responsible for the article in this case. It’s your responsibility, not your readers’, to at least give a little background. I wouldn’t expect a full list of the product’s features, but something to the effectof “Joomla! is a dynamic web portal and content management system” is all you would’ve needed to do. You obviously looked into it enough to put a read more link with your thoughts, therefore you must have researched it at least a little bit.
You don’t understand what I’m saying. I simply cannot know the level of knowledge my readers have, but what I do know, is that we have a highly technical audience. If people know what QNX, Workbench, the Ribbon, or Core Animation is, then I may assume that people are aware of what Joomla! is.
Heck, even I knew it without looking it up. Since most people here are far more knowledgeable than I am, that says quite a lot.
While I know what Joomla is… saying something like
“…Joomla (a content management system written in php)…”
That doesn’t hurt much. You could even leave off the “written in php” bit.
[qJoomla (a content management system written in php)”
What’s a “content management system”? Also, what’s “php”?
php stands for peanuts, hots and pretzels, and content management is the jar in which they reside.
Well, I had heard about Joomla! before, but, unlike the other things you mention, this is the sort of thing that only gets you excited if it results in money flying into your bank account.
I guess one guy somewhere “manages content” as a hobby, but I haven’t met him.
I know I will forget about Joomla! until the next news item makes me wonder what it was again.
I compiled a millions of lines of code, and I never heard about Joomla. What a shame.
BTW, are you paid by Google?
Puhlease get a grip on yourself. Google it and if that turns up nothing, then complain. Failing to google and still complaining is no-no in here. You cannot possibly be so lazy as to not google it…
What’s Google?
Google it.
http://www.google.com/search?q=recursion
Did you mean recursion?
Don’t do it! You’ll break the internet!
The internet is fine… just no flash photography please!
+1 funny
To the others who marked him down, it’s a referrence to a UK sitcom “IT Crowd”.
There’s probably a youtube clip floating around (can’t access it at work to check), if there is, it’s well worth watching
I’ve just been contacted by your boss. I’m supposed to tell you to get your lazy ass off OSNews and start working.
I am sure Microsoft would rather you BING it!
Sorry! Had to say it.
I had problems figuring out what Joomla! was even after visiting the web-site.
BTW, normal practice is to describe things in a manner befitting the NEWEST members of an audience. I’m in the field and I’ve never even heard of Joomla!
Even now I only have a vague idea of what Joomla! is, and why the news is at all important.
The cop-out most commonly used is to link the first appearance of the name “Joomla!” in the article to the web-site for “Joomla!”
Granted, I can just highlight the word, hit “Search Google for…” and be taken to a list of results ( using as much as energy as my fridge uses in fifteen minutes ), but it would be best to merely middle-click the first “Joomla!” in the article, and read that BEFORE reading your article.
Same goes with most articles, the first mention of “Haiku” should link to http://www.haiku-os.org/
It is up to the product’s web-site to explain it then.
Just my $0.015892 ( stinkin’ devaluation… )
–The loon
You can’t have been much in the field then
– next is you haven’t heard of typo3 – nor xoops…
Yeah, sometimes I forget how fast things move.
I’m WAY out of date… eight years is a LONG time in this business.
–The loon
What’s Google?
False comparison. If I’m reading an Amiga article you can assume I know about Workbench because chances are people interested in Amiga do. This article was about Microsoft legal/licensing shenanigans. How does that imply that I’ve heard of $random_project?
Your defense would hold water if the project were related to the topic, which is certainly not the case, or if it were something like e.g. the Linux kernel or GNOME or even GCC: Anyone reading this web site probably knows roughly what those are. Not explaining–or linking to explanations about–ambiguously named things that are not extremely prominent is doing your readers a disservice.
There are many things discussed on this and other similar sites that lots of people won’t know about, that’s the nature of the beast. I think we all have the ability to google something if we don’t know what it is.
As for the story, this is great news for both the Joomla! developers and Microsoft IIS users. It won’t however prompt me to change any of my, or my client’s, Joomla! sites over to IIS servers. Apache on Linux has served me well for over 12 years with my Mambo and Joomla! sites, at least now IIS users should be able to enjoy the full power of Joomla! without IIS roadblocks.
1. I like that Microsoft is choosing to participate in existing Free Software products – contibuting Kernel code for their hypervisor, this Joomla contribution, and I think contributions that help PHP run better on IIS. Some may argue, “They are just doing it to scratch their own itch – helping things run on/with Windows”. Doh! Welcome to the Free Software world where all developers contribute what they choose, usually what “scratches an itch”.
In some ways, I feel better about Microsoft’s contributions that supposed Free Software companies that severely hamper the Free version of their program and really thin layers around the Commercial, closed product.
2. Maybe Microsoft contributing to what they formerly labelled a “Communist System” is due to the election of a Socialist President. Just kidding!
Well, comment 2 was lame, but it was the free one!
1). Micorosft didn’t choose to contribute the code to linux. They were notified that they were in violation of the GPL for not releasing the code. They complied with the terms of the GPL and released it.
There is a difference between performing community service out of the kindness of your heart, and being sentenced to do it for criminal offences.
Having said that, MS is doing the right thing here. Although it is with Joomla. Nothing too critical of Joomla, but I don’t like any of the CMS es.
I’m not a GPL expert (and I’ve read Slashdot long enough to know that even self-proclaimed experts disagree on what GPL compliance actually mandates), but it’s my understanding that:
1. GPL violation would be a civil offense, not a criminal one.
2. Complying with GPL didn’t mandate that Microsoft release code. That’s one way they could comply, but the other way to comply would be to discontinue the offending product, rewrite it with fresh code, and re-release it.
Am I wrong in either of the above two items?
1) Yes. Not criminal, civil
2) Yes, it is my understanding that it would require them to release the code. Discontinuing the product would not remove the copyright violation.
From http://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2008/compliance-guide.html
“Since your rights under GPLv2 terminate automatically upon your initial violation, all subsequent distributions are violations and infringements of copyright. Therefore, even if you resolve a violation on your own, you must still seek a reinstatement of rights from the copyright holders whose licenses you violated, lest you remain liable for infringement for even compliant distributions made subsequent to the initial violation.”
@#$%&* I hate being put in this position. I’ve been on my own personal anti-Microsoft campaign for a while. I didn’t really even realize it until a buddy of mine mentioned that in a 5 minute period I’d blasted Outlook, Office and incompatibilities between Windows 7 and FrontPage.
That’s not the surprising part…I’ve been both a Mac and PC user, Macs at home PCs at work and over the last couple of years a Mac running Windows and OS X on a Mac using Dual Boot, Parallels and Fusion (I know Parallels wins the speed award, but every time I’ve tried it for a while I always return to Fusion, may not be the fastest but it just works more intuitively for my needs, it’s more stable, more reliable, even if I’m giving up some performance) to get the best of both worlds.
I was really hacked about FrontPage and issues I’d had running it on Windows 7 and the fact that I’ve used 2 different Microsoft replacements, Expression Web (which I bought and abandoned pretty quickly) and Sharepoint Designer (free) which I also abandoned very quickly because of interface and compatibility issues with existing FrontPage sites. Ironically (but not to me) FrontPage was a Mac app that was acquired by Microsoft because it’s awesome ease-of-use but then killed off on the Mac so there is no real, viable Mac alternative to Adobe DreamWeaver a company and a product that I’m also pretty hostile to.
So what does this have to do with Microsoft and Joomla? Well I’d decided a year or so ago that the next pass of my company’s website (it’s not my full time job…I’m the company’s top salesperson in revenue…and profits…but also as a family company I also wear many hats and web master was another huge responsibility, part of the reason FrontPage was an asset and DreamWeaver, Expression and SharePoint Designer were challenging…I needed a tool that I could crank out content faster and more easily than anything else).
After playing with a few different content management systems over the last couple of years (WordPress, e107) on personal sites I was ready to pitch a CMS (content management system for those who don’t know what Joomla, e107, or WordPress is) which replaces hand-coded sites built using tools such as FrontPage, Expression Web, SharePoint Designer, text editors, HTML editors and other tools, with a system based on Linux, Apache, MySQL and PHP, Perl and other programming languages often referred to as LAMP. The CMS I settled on was Joomla after trying out several others such as Drupal, Mambo and others.
My management was scared to death that I was taking us down a crazy path as they’d never heard of a CMS before I raised the issue, they were terrified that I was proposing a “free” solution (how good could it be, how does anyone make any money, can’t be production quality, we sell software how can we adopt free software, etc.) and one that had a funky name Joomla.
But I’d done my research, I’d paid attention to the conversations I overheard as I walked the halls, I’d tried a variety of different solutions in the past and I was 100% that this was absolutely the right solution for my company.
Conversation about easier and more frequent content creation… check. Conversation about eCommerce… check. Conversation about opening up web posting to others besides myself… check. A checks and balances system so even if we do open up posting to others, there’s management approval, post editing, etc. before the article goes live… check.
In addition, there were conversations about a file area that was easy to upload to and then make downloads available to our customers. And then there were conversations about hosting training videos much like YouTube. And then there were conversations about setting up a web based help desk system. And then there were conversations about a customer forum moderated by a few of our staff. Check, check, check, check, check, check and check.
Clearly Joomla was perfect for all of our company’s short term and long term goals and objectives because of the large library of 3rd party add-ons (extensions in Joomla speak) the ability to view and tweak the source code (well beyond my abilities as I’m not a programmer, but the opportunity to hire, contract changes if we need them) and other benefits such as a huge user community, the ability to name drop the fact that companies a million times larger than ours was using this technology and more.
But it’s been the hardest sell I’ve ever had to make. I’ve sold 1/2 million dollar software and implementation projects to complete strangers, but trying to convince my family and the “management team” that this is the right direction has been my most difficult sale.
And that brings me to the Microsoft angle. I’ll be @#$%&* if the Microsoft announcement about working with Joomla won’t do more to lend credibility to my vision for our website than my last 2 years of trying to sell my company (and family) selling them on open source software, content management systems, LAMP, and that weirdly named program that’s free (how can something that’s free even exist, we’re a VAR afterall) than any of my efforts.
Finally, in one fell swoop, the company that I’ve blasted rather frequently over the last couple of months (really, more because I’m trying to standardize more and more on cross platform apps as a Mac, PC and I know on my next project setting up file servers, print servers, firewalls, etc. near future Linux user) than an inherent hate of Microsoft (excepting FrontPage and the sad, sorry state of WYSIWYG editors for OS X excluding Adobe’s DreamWeaver…ugh Adobe) and the fact that Microsoft has recognized and embraced Joomla and thus has given instant instant credibility, ammo I can use about concerns about free software, comfort in a company that has been skeptical of Linux and has been a “Microsoft shop” for many years, and will probably do more to help me cross the finish line than any other development in the last 2 years.
Is it possible to scream at the top of your lungs VINDICATION while at the exact same time THROWING UP IN YOUR OWN MOUTH over who carried you across the finish line? Will I asphyxiate on my own vomit?
Who knows?
Edited 2010-04-29 03:57 UTC
I think you have hit the nail on the head there. The big plus for Joomla! comes not from the fact that Joomla! will be able to run better on IIS, or the fact that Joomla! will be available in the Web Platform Installer. The big news is that this will encourage “Microsoft shops” to use a Open source project (and a communist GPL one at that).
Good luck with your Joomla!, assuming you can now get the sanction. I did notice one thing that I wanted to comment on. I noticed you mentioned WYSIWYG HTML editors, the first thing you want to do when you implement a CMS is ban the use of WYSIWYG HTML editors (even the ones built into Joomla, IMHO). One of the great things about moving to a CMS is delegating content creation – however you should limit that to content, and not style. The HTML that your colleagues are using should be limited to very simple HTML, the vast majority of the styling should be in your CSS. This is necessary to ensure that the styling is consist and can be easily restyled should the need occur.
I only mention this because my biggest struggle after implementing Joomla! was getting my boss to stop copy and pasting MS-Word generated HTML into the CMS. If I were to do it again, I would probably use Drupal and custom nodes.
Good advice and advice I myself had to learn the hard way as I started in Joomla “old school” with content that had tables for formatting, etc.
After more time with it and completely understanding the concept of Sections, Categories and the “magical” Blog views I finally “got it” that I didn’t need tables to create 2 column layouts for visual appeal, etc. and was overjoyed that exactly as you say I could keep formatting incredibly simple, the most complex action being the handling of images.
Now I can crank out articles in NO TIME and the content creation is simple enough that I can train our staff, staff that I’d never let get close to HTML and our prior websites, to kick out articles themselves, while still having some editorial and QA control, thus increasing the volume of content on our site and still maintaining high quality.
Thanks for the advice.
Edited 2010-04-29 13:42 UTC
Studying CS and having never been exposed to the commercial world, I always had trouble wrapping my head around this fact.
I mean is ‘Microsoft promised to commit some code’ really a stronger argument than ‘It has hundreds of thousands of live installation including (show them a bunch of high profile sites made by Joomla)’? I can understand fear of anything free from some people, but when something is proven, objecting to it just because it’s free seems like just bad business sense.
Some people need a “seal of approval” before jumping on board. A small contribution from stallwart MS is worth more than 10 million live success cases. MS says it’s OK, so it should be OK for us.
It falls in the same category as “A throat to choke” and “Nobody ever got fired for buying xxx”. It’s an aversion against risk.
A business shouldn’t be risk averse (if it is calculated), not if they want to become and stay top of the roost. All others will just be me too outfits, grabbing the crumbs and see others soar.
Businesses are extremely misguided in their risk aversion however…
MS is actually *far more* of a risk than an open source project…
With MS products you depend on a single supplier, a supplier who might decide to drop the product you depend on, who might go bankrupt (don’t say they’re too big to go under, they said that about banks and enron too), who might get split up by the DOJ. If MS stop supporting the product you bought for whatever reason you have no second source, nowhere you can go and LOTS of businesses are in this situation with all kinds of proprietary software these days.
With an open source project, if the original developers stop developing it for whatever reason, you still have unrestricted use of the existing versions and there is nothing to stop you (possibly in conjunction with other users) from hiring people to continue development should you need that. If your company is large enough you might even have developers on staff who can work on it. The same is true if the original developers take the project in a direction that doesn’t suit you.
The worst case scenario for open source is easily solved in a way businesses understand – paying developers… The worst case scenario for closed source is pretty fatal.
In any other field, business would run a mile from any company like microsoft… Most businesses demand *at least* a second source for anything else they buy.
But nobody ever got fired for recommending a Microsoft solution, so it’s OK.
I believe Microsoft is one of the lowest risk closed source companies. Their entire image is based on backward compatibility.
They not only support ancient products (you can still get DOS/Win 3.1 from an MSDN subscription, or look at they way they still cannot discontinue XP due to customer demand), but they also support other companies’ broken products, too.
For example, they had a code that switches to special memory management in windows, since older version of Sim City had a bug. Had special cases for broken Norton products, etc.
Go read some of Raymond Chen’s blog, and see how many hoops they go through to ensure compatibility: http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/