Microsoft on Tuesday released blueprints designed to help technology managers install Windows more efficiently and at a lower cost. The software titan issued five guides that businesses can use for a variety of tasks, including patch management or installing new desktop applications companywide. The Redmond, Wash.-based company calls the suite of guides Microsoft Solutions for Management.
Microsoft Unveils Guides to Windows
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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Is how secure will be the windows installation if the guides are followed… Any security experts keen to study this arround???
Cheers…
I thought Microsoft products were designed to be easy enough that you didn’t need guides? haha….
If you need a guide to install it, might as well just install Linux and use a “linux guide”, and save some money on license fees, etc…haaha
Each guide is only two pages long. That’s just ten pages total. I’d love to see a HOWTO: For Linux that outlines how to install the OS, security patches, and applications in a networked environment with a minimum of hassles in less than one hundred pages, let alone ten.
Next time try clicking through a couple of links and actually educating yourself before you just go “hahaha, I’m a Linux zealot who doesn’t bother himself with the facts.”
Funny because the documents are glorified sales sheets.
To actually get the info you need to use the the service …. you need to go somewhere else. The docs are for people who want to know basically what the offerings are and not how to se them.
One funny thing was they have something called SUS (Software Update Services) I always thought that stood for Stupid User Syndrome.
and here I was thinking that MS would be insisting on doing all the updating and patch management for us ‘online’ so we don’t have to worry about our security and update chores
http://www.microsoft.com/solutions/MSM/evaluation/overview/
“According to industry analysts, 80 percent of unplanned downtime is due to failures related to people and processes.”
———
What the hell is that supposed to mean?
And which industry analysts?
According to online analysts, 100% of vague but-impressive-sounding-talk — if you can’t think for yourself — is related to marketdroid people and processes.
There’s more, but I think I’ll employ “Best Practice” and cease talk of this sales guide
I think everybody else is laughing at you guys who laugh at Microsoft. I mean, isn’t it stupid to laugh at Microsoft for no reason, just for the fun of it. It makes you look really stupid.
yes, it is stupid 9 tens out of ten…this being one of the 9…
but it’s fun, and it makes me laugh, so I don’t care.
” I think everybody else is laughing at you guys who laugh at Microsoft. I mean, isn’t it stupid to laugh at Microsoft for no reason, just for the fun of it. It makes you look really stupid.”
Maybe, but if they’ve discovered there are different OS’s out there that get the job done just as well if not better than Windows, I could see why they’d be laughing. Although its certainly wrong to laugh at users who haven’t figured that out, there is nothing wrong with poking fun at MS itself. I mean considering all the law breaking, heavy tactics and FUD MS does to anyone who dares oppose them, making light of them is about the nicest thing anyone could do.
AMEN to that!
Maybe, but if they’ve discovered there are different OS’s out there that get the job done just as well if not better than Windows, I could see why they’d be laughing. Although its certainly wrong to laugh at users who haven’t figured that out
But of course, most people do it anyway, and so do you, albeit in a more indirect way. You find some cheap, knock-off OS that does everything you need, and so you think it’s God’s gift to the world and that you are somehow superior over the ‘lemmings’ because you use a ‘l33t’ OS, and therefore you sit around, laugh, and talk shit about people who don’t use the same OS as you do, even though your OS of choice is trying damn hard to mimmick the OS in which you scorn.
Truth be told that if your ‘alternative’ apps had half the functionality in which you claim they do, most of us (including me) would switch tomorrow.
So in other words, get off my ass
“I’d love to see a HOWTO: For Linux that outlines how to install the OS, security patches, and applications in a networked environment with a minimum of hassles in less than one hundred pages, let alone ten. ”
RedHat 8.0 Installation How-to:
Insert CD
Turn power on
Follow prompts
Reboot
Log in
Click the exclamation point in the panel
Follow prompts
Enjoy.
Damn people think they know everything there is to know, yet they haven’t even tried it, and don’t know shit about anything. It’s one thing to just not know something, it’s another to be a fscking moron and pretend that you do.
“you are somehow superior over the ‘lemmings’ because you use a ‘l33t’ OS,”
7:47am up 58 days, 21:43, 1 user, load average: 0.12, 0.17, 0.15
This is my desktop, how long has yours been up? As you can see I installed my OS 58 days ago. I’m also fully patched (I built a custom kernel post install). I enjoy virus free computing, with no third party crapware to slow me down or cause my system to become unstable.
” and therefore you sit around, laugh, and talk shit about people who don’t use the same OS as you do, even though your OS of choice is trying damn hard to mimmick the OS in which you scorn.”
Bullshit, perhaps KDE is trying to mimick Windows, but Linux is just a kernel remember?
“Truth be told that if your ‘alternative’ apps had half the functionality in which you claim they do, most of us (including me) would switch tomorrow.”
They do, if you don’t realize that then you are an uneducated idiot like the rest of them. Use it and see for your self (If you are going to make a claim that you tried it a year ago, you can stop now I’m already laughing at you.) I’ve been doing my job as a Windows and Unix administrator with a Linux desktop for over a year now, I have yet to hit a wall.
“So in other words, get off my ass
”
Stop posting bullshit.
This is my desktop, how long has yours been up? As you can see I installed my OS 58 days ago.
Mine has only been up for 57. I bow to your superiority … I guess.
I enjoy virus free computing, with no third party crapware to slow me down or cause my system to become unstable.
So do I, so what’s your point?
Bullshit, perhaps KDE is trying to mimick Windows, but Linux is just a kernel remember?
Ok, so I guess then that makes the ‘rest’ of Linux irrevalent? Funny how people revert back to this argument when you point out something about Linux that they don’t like. If you mention that you were able to crash Mandrake 9 within 30 minutes after booting it up, they’re like “Impossible, you crashed the GUI .. Linux is just a kernel.” Yeah, whatever.
“Truth be told that if your ‘alternative’ apps had half the functionality in which you claim they do, most of us (including me) would switch tomorrow.”
They do, if you don’t realize that then you are an uneducated idiot like the rest of them
Alright then, in a previous thread a couple of days ago, I listed about 3-4 apps and said that if someone could point out a functional equivalent in Linux, I would switch that weekend. And guess what? Nobody responded. So now, I’ll make it even easier … find me a functional equivalent for just this ONE app (the one that’s most important to me):
http://www.microsoft.com/streets/
That should be easy for you since Linux is such a superior OS, right? And before you say ‘nobody uses that’, well .. guess what, I use it, and when you break it down to app functionality, system uptime becomes completely irrevalent to those who are application-centric. So, bring on the alternative, gentlemen … let’s see how bad ass your apps really are. I’ve got about a dozen apps like this, but I’m choosing only one from the list!
“Mine has only been up for 57. I bow to your superiority … I guess.”
Nice, I guess you haven’t installed any patches that’s pretty damn smart!
“So do I, so what’s your point?”
No, you don’t unless you are a STUPID Windows user that believes he doesn’t need to run AntiVirus, or a Firewall.
“Ok, so I guess then that makes the ‘rest’ of Linux irrevalent? Funny how people revert back to this argument when you point out something about Linux that they don’t like.”
If you were talking about Linux I would see your point, you were however incorrect in your claim about Linux itself. Funny how people revert back to this argument when you point out something about Linux that they don’t like.
“http://www.microsoft.com/streets/“
Try it in Wine then let is know if it works. Don’t expect me to do it for you. Also don’t expect to get away with bitching about it if you haven’t attempted to do it yourself. Alternatives to wine include Win4Lin and VMWare, I’ll bet your apps work in those environments. I’d much rather have a legacy OS in a virtual machine with a select few applications until an alternative was available than to live knowing that my next email may be the end of my machine.
“That should be easy for you since Linux is such a superior OS, right?”
I don’t use that application, but it IS easy for YOU to find out if it works.
” And before you say ‘nobody uses that’, well .. guess what, I use it,”
Then try it, and don’t bitch about it until you are 100% sure you can’t get it to work.
” and when you break it down to app functionality, system uptime becomes completely irrevalent to those who are application-centric.”
waah
” So, bring on the alternative, gentlemen … let’s see how bad ass your apps really are. I’ve got about a dozen apps like this, but I’m choosing only one from the list! ”
Lets hear them, put up or shut up.
Nice, I guess you haven’t installed any patches that’s pretty damn smart!
Obviously, you missed the intended sarcasm. In reality, keeping a Windows system up to date with the latest security patches means having to reboot the system about once a week (from my experience). That’s about 45 seconds – the amount of time it takes for me to go take a piss and come back, so what’s the big deal?
If not having to reboot your desktop computer once a week is more important to you than application functionaltiy, then fine .. have at it. But don’t think less of people who feel otherwise.
No, you don’t unless you are a STUPID Windows user that believes he doesn’t need to run AntiVirus, or a Firewall.
You said virus free, not without AntiVirus. And most people running Linux use a firewall too, so what difference does it make?
“http://www.microsoft.com/streets/“
Try it in Wine then let is know if it works. Don’t expect me to do it for you. Also don’t expect to get away with bitching about it if you haven’t attempted to do it yourself.
Apparently, you missed the point. If Linux and its apps are so superior, why do I still need to run Windows apps if I make the switch? You called me an ‘uneducated idiot’, and I called you on it, and now your only solution/explanation is to run it under Wine or …
Alternatives to wine include Win4Lin and VMWare, I’ll bet your apps work in those environments.
I’d much rather have a legacy OS in a virtual machine with a select few applications
Try more like a dozen …
until an alternative was available
So you admit then that no alternative exists. Then my original claim about Linux ‘alternatives’ was right. The ‘community’ manages to build a better (albeit slower) browser than IE (which also runs under Windows) and an Office suite that doesn’t completely suck (which also runs under Windows), and suddenly the rest of the shit you try and pawn off as ‘drop in replacements’ is ‘good enough’ for everybody and superior to anything Windows has to offer, simply because it doesn’t run on Windows and not a product of MS.
than to live knowing that my next email may be the end of my machine.
Assuming you’re dumb enough to run either Outlook or Express unpatched. Otherwise, you’ve got little to worry about it.
Don’t try to defend Linux’s superiority from an application feature standpoint. Unless you are talking about server software or apps that run in a console Window, it is simply a battle you cannot win.
“Obviously, you missed the intended sarcasm. In reality, keeping a Windows system up to date with the latest security patches means having to reboot the system about once a week (from my experience). That’s about 45 seconds – the amount of time it takes for me to go take a piss and come back, so what’s the big deal?
If not having to reboot your desktop computer once a week is more important to you than application functionaltiy, then fine .. have at it. But don’t think less of people who feel otherwise.
I’m sorry, you didn’t imply sarcasm.
“No, you don’t unless you are a STUPID Windows user that believes he doesn’t need to run AntiVirus, or a Firewall.
You said virus free, not without AntiVirus. And most people running Linux use a firewall too, so what difference does it make?”
No, I said ” I enjoy virus free computing, with no third party crapware to slow me down or cause my system to become unstable. ”
You said “So do I, so what’s your point?”
You implied that you also enjoy virus free computing with no third party crapware.
“Apparently, you missed the point. If Linux and its apps are so superior, why do I still need to run Windows apps if I make the switch? You called me an ‘uneducated idiot’, and I called you on it, and now your only solution/explanation is to run it under Wine or …”
I’m not the one missing the point, I am telling you that you can still possibly have your wonderful Windows app. Why do you want an alternative when you can use the real thing? Where’s the problem here? Oh, it’s imaginary. You called it. I answered with a solution, now deal with it.
“Try more like a dozen …”
I’m still waiting for that list.
I won’t get it because you are full of it.
“So you admit then that no alternative exists. Then my original claim about Linux ‘alternatives’ was right. The ‘community’ manages to build a better (albeit slower) browser than IE (which also runs under Windows) and an Office suite that doesn’t completely suck (which also runs under Windows), and suddenly the rest of the shit you try and pawn off as ‘drop in replacements’ is ‘good enough’ for everybody and superior to anything Windows has to offer, simply because it doesn’t run on Windows and not a product of MS.”
Why do you need an alternative when the native app may well work? OH, then you won’t have anything to bitch about. Which browser is slower? Mozilla? HAHAHA Maybe loading the first time, but it’s not embedded into the OS so that’s not a problem really. Where’s that list? I’m guessing that it’s imaginary as well.
“Assuming you’re dumb enough to run either Outlook or Express unpatched. Otherwise, you’ve got little to worry about it.”
Hey, you haven’t rebooted in 57 days right? LOL I can give you:
1 Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-069:Flaw in Microsoft VM Could Enable System Compromise (810030)
2 Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-070: Flaw in SMB Signing Could Enable Group Policy to be Modified (309376)
3 Microsoft Security Bulletin MS02-071:Flaw in Windows WM_TIMER Message Handling Could Enable Privilege Elevation (328310)
reasons why you should have rebooted today alone. You don’t have to RUN outlook express to become a victim, it just needs to be installed you know that right?
“All users running Microsoft Internet Explorer (ver 5.01 or 5.5 without SP2), are advised to install this patch for the Incorrect MIME Header Can Cause IE to Execute E-mail Attachment vulnerability.”
– http://vil.mcafee.com/dispVirus.asp?virus_k=99209&
“Don’t try to defend Linux’s superiority from an application feature standpoint. Unless you are talking about server software or apps that run in a console Window, it is simply a battle you cannot win. ”
It’s a battle that I’ve already won, you are pulling things out of your ass, and making up stories in a pathetic attempt to refute it even though you know that you can’t. I gave you a solution if you choose not to utilize it then blame yourself and not Linux.
Let me add that rebooting once a week takes more than 45 seconds.
Every 7 days you spend:
10 minutes downloading patches.
4 minutes to save your data, and close your applications.
5 minutes installing patches.
15 seconds for Windows to shut down.
30 seconds for your PC to post.
45 seconds for Windows to boot.
25 seconds to log in.
4 minutes to reopen your applications to their previous state.
That’s 20.57 minutes a week in downtime, or 18(17.82) days a year!
If I pay you $20.00 an hour, I have wasted $2,851 in lost productivity on you
alone. If I have 100,000 employees to worry about I am now looking at
$285,100,000 in expenses just on Windows patches.
Yeah, now you do the math and explain to me how rebooting is no big deal.
No, I said ” I enjoy virus free computing, with no third party crapware to slow me down or cause my system to become unstable. “
Yes, you’re right – I misunderstood you. But then again, AntiVirus doesn’t slow me down or make my system unstable, so you’re only half right
I’m still waiting for that list.
Why do you need an alternative when the native app may well work? OH, then you won’t have anything to bitch about. Where’s that list? I’m guessing that it’s imaginary as well.
Fine. I don’t know for sure if any/all of these have Linux equivalents but if they do, I have not been able to find them and nobody has pointed them out to me. We’ll start with the audio apps and work our way down:
* Cubase SX & assocrated VST instruments/plugins (The Grand and M-tron being the two I care most aboutt)
* Most of the Native Instruments softsynths (Absynth, FM-7, Pro-52, etc)
* Gigastudio (software sampler)
* Fruity Loops
* Propellerhead’s Reason
* CoolEdit Pro 2.0
And just so you know, many of the above apps when wired and working together (many of them can integrate with each other) takes up nearly all the system resources I have, so they’re not the kind of apps you can run well (if at all) in an emulator such as VMWare. I’ve tried running a few of these under Wine … no dice, so your previous solution no longer applies. (And yes, I know most of these are available for Macs, but this is not a Mac vs. Windows discussion either).
Also, I need software that will allow me to transfer maps back and forth to my Navman 3420 GPS receiver, which is connected to a Compaq iPaq 3835 PocketPC.
Oh, I also need to be able to connect to the Intranet at work, which runs a few ActiveX controls and requires IE. So, how well can Linux do ActiveX?
Someone in this thread was talking about that some people have found out that there are OS’es out there that get the job done better (than Windows) and that it’s wrong to laugh at people who haven’t figured that out yet. So, as long as you’re laughing at me, why don’t you enlighten me? So far, your only solution has been that if it doesn’t run under Wine, run it under VMWare or Win4Lin, which I have already stated won’t work for my purposes and even if it did, instead of having to run Norton AntiVirus in the background, I now have to run a full-blown copy of Windows .. which do you think is going to be lighter on system resources ?
You don’t have to RUN outlook express to become a victim, it just needs to be installed you know that right?
“All users running Microsoft Internet Explorer (ver 5.01 or 5.5 without SP2), are advised to install this patch for the Incorrect MIME Header Can Cause IE to Execute E-mail Attachment vulnerability.”
–
Yeah, now you do the math and explain to me how rebooting is no big deal.
ANd I suppose the amount of time it takes to patch a Linux system is 0? And don’t tell me it doesn’t have holes, because I have gotten at least a dozen security bulletins from Redhat since installing RH8. And even if there were no holes or it took less than a minute to patch each Linux system AND you had 100,000 employees to worry about, then fine .. use what works what’s best for you, and I’ll use what works best for me. And to all of you Linux zealots out there, unless you can disprove what I have proven here (that Linux is not best suited for my needs), then keep your damn mouths shut and your comments to yourselves. Linux ain’t Gods gift to OS’es, and it certainly ain’t for everybody.
“Yes, you’re right”
Thx.
“Fine. I don’t know for sure if any/all of these have Linux equivalents but if they do, I have not been able to find them”
* Cubase SX & assocrated VST instruments/plugins (The Grand and M-tron being the two I care most aboutt)
No
* Most of the Native Instruments softsynths (Absynth, FM-7, Pro-52, etc)
No
* Gigastudio (software sampler)
No
* Fruity Loops
No
* Propellerhead’s Reason
No
* CoolEdit Pro 2.0
I think this app works in Wine, however I may be wrong. You are a great case to stay on Windows. 😉
“And just so you know, many of the above apps when wired and working together (many of them can integrate with each other) takes up nearly all the system resources I have, so they’re not the kind of apps you can run well (if at all) in an emulator such as VMWare. I’ve tried running a few of these under Wine … no dice, so your previous solution no longer applies. (And yes, I know most of these are available for Macs, but this is not a Mac vs. Windows discussion either).
Also, I need software that will allow me to transfer maps back and forth to my Navman 3420 GPS receiver, which is connected to a Compaq iPaq 3835 PocketPC.”
See above.
“Oh, I also need to be able to connect to the Intranet at work, which runs a few ActiveX controls and requires IE. So, how well can Linux do ActiveX?”
Yes, and Yes. You can have ActiveX with IE using Wine.
“Someone in this thread was talking about that some people have found out that there are OS’es out there that get the job done better (than Windows) and that it’s wrong to laugh at people who haven’t figured that out yet. So, as long as you’re laughing at me, why don’t you enlighten me? So far, your only solution has been that if it doesn’t run under Wine, run it under VMWare or Win4Lin, which I have already stated won’t work for my purposes and even if it did, instead of having to run Norton AntiVirus in the background, I now have to run a full-blown copy of Windows .. which do you think is going to be lighter on system resources ?
”
I said I would be laughing if you claimed that you tried Linux a year ago. I admit that it’s not right for everyone, but the apps you have listed are specialized and not something you will find on an average person’s desktop.
“Assuming you run IE 5.01 or 5.5, I run 6.0 SP1 with all patch updates up to about 5 days ago. How many vunerabilities exist for this setup and that will work without the user doing something stupid? And out of all of those, how many of them will work through a firewall AND are actually being exploited by the script kiddies?”
That was one example out of many possible examples.
“10 minutes downloading patches.
On a DSL connection? More like 30 seconds, unless it’s a service pack, but I have those slipstreamed.”
So you don’t have to locate them? They jump right onto your computer? (Unless you use autoupdate, it takes roughly 10 minutes to use windows update).
“4 minutes to save your data, and close your applications.
Geez, what are you running, a Pentium 66?”
Unless you only have one application open it takes time to close them. It takes 30 seconds for Notes, 30 seconds for Word (I am counting save time too), 2 seconds to close IE, etc.
“Again, your numbers are exaggerated here. It takes my computer less than 30 seconds to post and boot.”
That’s nice, the average user doesn’t have a computer as fast as yours. Get your stop watch, and try it. Start to finish count every single click all the way back to this page.
“25 seconds to log in.”
“!?!?!?!?”
If you don’t understand that then you aren’t on a network of any sort.
“4 minutes to reopen your applications to their previous state.”
“Again, your numbers are way off, unless you’re running 8MB RAM.”
Time it.
“Eh, I don’t know about you, but I don’t have 100,000 employees to worry about
”
Not the point.
“ANd I suppose the amount of time it takes to patch a Linux system is 0?”
No, however it takes much less time and costs much less in the long run. I’ve installed half a dozen patches since I booted 59 days ago (now) Opened ftp, pointed it at the site, highlighted the whole list, then later opened a terminal and issued rpm -Fvh *rpm that’s it, took 3 minutes total
” And don’t tell me it doesn’t have holes, because I have gotten at least a dozen security bulletins from Redhat since installing RH8.”
You won’t hear that from me. You also won’t hear that it doesn’t ever crash. I unfortunately caused it to panic with a shared IRQ issue on another computer the other day. Solution though was simply to enable ACPI and disable legacy support. It goes against my basic idea that an OS should never crash because of a driver though.
” And even if there were no holes or it took less than a minute to patch each Linux system AND you had 100,000 employees to worry about, then fine .. use what works what’s best for you, and I’ll use what works best for me.”
Shell scripts work wonders, and users never know that the patch was installed. Total cost in hours across the board? 20 minutes of *MY* time.
” And to all of you Linux zealots out there, unless you can disprove what I have proven here (that Linux is not best suited for my needs),”
It seems that it’s not best for YOUR needs, but don’t discount it for the average user based on YOUR requirements, not everyone on earth needs cakewalk, or even GIMP for that matter.
” then keep your damn mouths shut and your comments to yourselves. ”
Why, is it ok for you to run your mouth, but for no one else to dispute your claims?
“Linux ain’t Gods gift to OS’es,”
Sure it is, it ONLY needs mainstream application support. That’s not an OS problem, it’s a vendor problem.
” and it certainly ain’t for everybody.”
Not *YET*, but it’s getting there.
You are a great case to stay on Windows. 😉
Well, that was my whole point to begin with. As I said, once Linux gets up to speed with these apps, I’ll switch immediately, assuming that it hasn’t become a spitting image of Windows by then (where it’s heading now).
I admit that it’s not right for everyone, but the apps you have listed are specialized and not something you will find on an average person’s desktop.
Actually, I could make a pretty good arguement tfor the ‘average person’ too, but that is beyond the scope of this thread
“Assuming you run IE 5.01 or 5.5, I run 6.0 SP1 with all patch updates up to about 5 days ago. How many vunerabilities exist for this setup and that will work without the user doing something stupid? And out of all of those, how many of them will work through a firewall AND are actually being exploited by the script kiddies?”
That was one example out of many possible examples.
Ok then, so tell me which exploits work:
– With all the latest patches and service packs installed and
– With Outlook Express 6’s default security options turned on (pretty much blocks all attachments)
– Without the user having to do something stupid (double clicking on attachments, etc) and
– Works through a firewall (ZoneAlarm, etc) and
– Works when updated antivirus software is installed and running on the system
And out of all of those, how many of them have actually been used to do harm to somebody’s system (outside of a lab). Provide a list for me, please?
Sure it is, it ONLY needs mainstream application support. That’s not an OS problem, it’s a vendor problem.
Actually, you’re wrong … it needs a little more than that
As for the whole patching/rebooting thing, I can’t run updates on my work PC, but 3 minutes and 4 seconds to shut everything down, reboot (into a network) and start all my apps up again (including typing in the wrong password for MSN Messenger). Not instantaneous by any stretch of the imagination, but a far cry from the ‘4 minutes to reopen your apps’ bullshit that you were spewing. This was done on a P3 800mhz machine with 128MB RAM and Win2k. Not the slowest machine by any stretch of the imagination, but far from the fastest.
BTW: If you want to continue this discussion, email me at worknman(at)mastnet(dot)net. This thread is getting lost in the crowd