“In this blog post (and the one that will follow) we’d like to introduce a few of the broad reaching experience improvements that we’ve delivered in Visual Studio 11. We’ve worked hard on them over the last two years and believe that they will significantly improve the experience that you will have with Visual Studio.”
Qt-Creator is one of the best IDEs i’ve ever used, works on every platform and is fully featured, and I don’t even use it for Qt development..
Does it have metrics? Unit testing? Performance analizers? Integration with UML? Team Suite? Multible DB integration?
Qt is a good IDE, bu is not comparable yet with VS.
Edited 2012-02-24 19:12 UTC
Why would you need all that inside an IDE? There are plenty of external tools you can use for that
As sommeone who has worked on big corporate projects who do actually use process, I can tell you it is necessary, the “Type and Compile” style of IDE is not for every need.
Because that’s the whole point – and what the I in IDE stands for – of an Integrated development environment as opposed to a tricked-out text editor.
“Integrated” doesn’t mean it should include all the features under the sun in it. Only the features you need to produce code (edit, code complete, build, deploy, debug).
Some people consider Testing, collaboration, version management, etc. to be fundamental in the software development cycle.
Testing, for example, takes as much time/bulk of effort as the code writing in plenty of projects.
I am not claiming the “integrated” approach is the only way, but some so-called “IDEs” are really “IPDEs” (Integrated Partial Development Environments).
I normally don’t care much for microsoft products, but their development environments are top notch.
Edited 2012-02-25 01:44 UTC
Curious, is VS still stuck with the horrid SourceSafe?
Is there any integration with actually useful version control systems?
No, Microsoft has Team Foundation Server (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_Foundation_Server).
There will be TFS Express which is free.
I believe he said useful Source Control Management, i.e. what most people use…
It integrates with SVN and Mercury also.
Well I work TFS and it is absolutely fine. You can use GIT, Mercurial or SVN easily with it. I have also used Perforce on occasion.
Source Safe was indeed crap, and I am Glad that I now use TFS, nice troll btw.
Edited 2012-02-25 16:55 UTC
yah. However I can’t think of anyone I know (off the top of my head) that uses TFS, and plenty that used any of the others.
I have used TFS, it sucks, then I used SVN, is better, now using GIT, kick ass.
I’ve been looking at GIT and powershell for personal projects, mainly due to be able to getting online hosting by services such as bitbucket.
TFS works fine at work, I hate the merge tool … but other than that it seems to do what we need it to do.
AnkhSVN, free and fully integrated Subversion client.
It has never been stuck with the “horrid” sourcesafe. I have been using CVS, GIT, SVN, TFS and Sourcesafe with VS since 2005 (8 years ago).
And professionals are perfectly capable of using discrete tools for these purposes.
Professionals use the tools the clients wish to have, without getting into religious discussions about tools.
Professionals, are still people.
People are allowed to have opinions and preferences…
Yeah, but those are not INTEGRATED are they?
Yes, that’s what I meant by discrete.
Wooossshshhhhhh
Nobody is forcing you to use all tools that are part of Visual Studio.
You do not need Report Designer? Then don’t use it. You do not need XSLT debugger? Don’t use it, etc.
I have no beef with Visual Studio having lots of features. Eclipse has too, and eclipse is a fine IDE.
Extra features do not make the IDE significantly worse, but I’m arguing they don’t make it significantly better either.
Yes, they do, because those features in Visual Studio are really well integrated.
For example, Report Designer understands your projects, code, etc and is immediately giving you options to pick exposed collections, etc, etc.
Or for example, you can use command line or Windows Explorer to check-in, check-out, diff, etc files, but it sure is easier and quicker if you can do that directly from Solution Explorer..
Yet, you do not have to use these features from within VS if you do not want to.
Capable of, yes – but that doesn’t mean they *want* to use separate tools. There are a lot of advantages in having version control integrated with your code editor – annotated views to show recent changes within a file, syntax-aware tools for resolving merge conflicts, etc.
Personally, I think Visual Studio (Professional edition) is completely useless without ReSharper. Coming from a Java background (using Eclipse, Intellij IDEA) I was honestly shocked how primitive Visual Studio was compared to Java IDEs. Compared to _free_ Java IDEs.
But take into account that I was/am using Visual Studio 2008, Professional edition. I don’t know how much better is the Ultimate edition.
I also had to program for BizTalk Server 2009. I am honestly shocked that Microsoft gets away with selling that piece of software for huge amounts of money, while the Visual Studio support is very very primitive, and f*ing buggy. Yes, there are a couple of hotfixes to lessen the pain, but they never went to the trouble of releasing a service pack. Also, install on 64-bit Windows server is not smooth either. For install on 64-bit, one has to fetch hotfixes too. Amazing.
Finally, Team Foundation Server… if you consider the version control part of TFS top notch, then either you don’t know any better, you never worked on a big team (always needing to lock source files ?!?), or well.. you must use it in a different way than what I’ve seen. We use subversion in our company and we need to install a third-party plugin for support inside Visual Studio. It also does not seem to come with built-in support for git. You take any decent Java IDE, and it’ll come with support for several version control systems out of the box.
But yeah… if you chose Microsoft, you have to follow the microsoft way for everything.
But honestly… Visual Studio a top notch quality IDE? Come on, ReSharper from JetBrains would not be so successfull if that were the case. Did you ever use any other IDEs than Visual Studio?
Btw, take SQL Server Management Studio from Microsoft.. you also think that is a top notch environment to write SQL? Honestly, try to install the SQL Prompt plugin from Red Gate and experience decent SQL completion.
I really think you were not exposed to other tools than the Microsoft ones. Microsoft’s development environments may seem top notch when you’re coming from compiling on the commandline, and using notepad. But not anymore when you’ve opened your eyes to better tools.
Btw… MSBuild.. Microsoft’s build tool. It seems heavily inspired by Ant, which was Java’s favorite build tool up to several years ago. The Java world moved on to Maven. The advantage of Maven is that it also does dependency management. Microsoft development environments do not come out of the box with dependency management. Microsoft supports the open source project NuGet which is a (primitive) attempt at doing dependency management for .NET. We switched to another open source project “OpenWrap” for dependency management. It is not as popular as NuGet, because it’s not based on the “click-click-click” mentality of the standard Microsoft developer, but it is a lot more powerful and has a lot more possibilities towards the future. (It also supports run-time dependency management.) NuGet is basically an addon to fetch a dependency from a server on the internet.
So, please, please, don’t tell me that Microsoft development environments are “top notch”. Check out the world, and open your eyes to non-Microsoft products.
Edited 2012-02-25 09:29 UTC
Jesus tap dancing H. Christ on a pogo stick, an IDE fanboi… I have seen it all.
It is kind of like rule 34 of the internet.
If it exists, there IS a fanboy of it.
No exception.
Uh… You consider me an IDE fanboi?
Oh well… for the record, I just don’t agree with your point of view that Microsoft development environments are “top notch”. And I’m just giving you arguments to support my point of view.
But well.. it’s easier to call someone a fanboi instead of giving arguments to support your view.
Technically, you did not give “arguments,” what you gave were some heavily biased “opinions.”
Oh, and I also said that I don’t care that much for microsoft products. I tend not to use them for my personal needs. So I find your accusations rather ironic, and perhaps driven by projection.
From a C++ development standpoint, VisualStudio is indeed top notch. Period. Esp. If you are developing a large scale application with a large team on Windows.
I would have taken you seriously if you had not used Eclipse as an example of excellence. Let me guess, by “coming from a Java background” you mean you just graduated school.
I disagree, but I suspect that I may have a very different focus than you. I neither need nor want all the ancillary tools. I just need a tool I can use to work with the code.
For me, it comes down to the editor. Visual Studio’s editor sucks – it’s extremely simplistic, and most of the extra bells and whistles (like autocompletion) really don’t work well enough, or provide enough benefit over a really good text editor, to be worth the hassle.
Yes, I know that most of this is because C++ is a very difficult language to write tools for. That’s really no excuse though – other tools, much newer and built with far fewer resources than Visual Studio, have managed far better.
For C++, Eclipse isn’t very good. Granted.
However, for Java, Eclipse is far, far better than Visual Studio is for C#. So is NetBeans, and especially IntelliJ IDEA.
If you want a point of comparison – Resharper for Visual Studio was written by the same guys who made IDEA (a Java IDE). The idea was to bring features from IDEA into Visual Studio, presumably so they didn’t have to write their own .Net IDE as well.
The features that Resharper adds are standard in IDEA, and are generally found in Eclipse and NetBeans as well.
No need to get angry at the guy, by the way. He actually sounds like he’s done a lot of Java development, and was surprised by how primitive Visual Studio was in comparison. So was I, especially considering the glowing reputation that Visual Studio has.
That actually makes sense.
My focus of usage of VisualStudio was on high performance visualization/analysis/simulation apps, and the performance analysis and testing tools in the VS ecosystem are indeed top notch. And that was surprising to me, because normally I have never been that interested by Microsoft offerings.
BTW, I wasn’t “angry” at the guy. I feel most comfortable with emacs+command line tools, so I was just amused about the assumptions he made about me, just because I said something positive about VS.
Edited 2012-02-26 05:31 UTC
Yeah, that’d be it. Their niche tools are actually pretty good, for some reason.
If I were working on a project where those tools were actually useful, I’d probably be using Visual Studio as well. If the benefit of using those tools outweighs the inconvenience of having to use Visual Studio for a while, it’d be worth it.
Yeah, poor choice of words on my part. Not quite sure what I was trying to say there…
Ok, I cannot comment on how good Visual Studio is for C++ development, since I’ve only used it for C# development.
The things I miss in Visual Studio (which I thought are “basic”, coming from Eclipse) might all be small things, and not useful to everyone; but i’ve just been frustrated enough with Visual Studio to not agree with the “top notch”.
I refuse to use Visual Studio without ReSharper. I suppose the situation is different for C++ development.
Coming straight from college? Not really. I went to university in 1995, about the time Java came out and before it was the standard programming language to teach. My first programming language at university was actually Scheme. As a graduate thesis, I (together with a friend) implemented a complete Prolog system in Java (using nedit+javac on linux). Then I worked on a phd on garbage collection in the context of Prolog. This was an implementation in C (using emacs+gcc+gdb on linux). Then in 2007 I went to work for a fairly small software company. From 2007-2009 I did mainly java enterprise development (java ee 1.4 and jee5, using eclipse and later netbeans). From 2009 till now I did mainly .NET development (.NET 3.5, WCF, a bit of BizTalk, using Visual Studio 2008 + ReSharper 5 and 6), and a bit of Java development (eclipse rcp application, development in eclipse). I like to think I’m pretty good at what I do and I like to think I know what I’m talking about.
Maybe my comment sounded more like a rant or maybe it seemed I’m just whining, but it’s a genuine comment. I’m really not that impressed by Visual Studio and don’t consider it “top notch”, but that’s coming from a C# context. And it is based on actual usage and experience.
Not really. For C++, it’s actually more limited than it is for C#. Something like Visual Assist X helps a lot – same general idea as ReSharper, but it’s for C++ instead of C#.
Pfffffft – a hardcore Java EE dev bagging on what VS “lacks”. That’s a good one.
I’ve developed in both worlds, and I can tell you, developing in the MS/VS/.Net world is an infinitely more pleasant and productive experience. The JEE world is just loaded with unnecessary bloat, bugginess, fragmentation, and complexity, with inferior tools (tools that seem great at first, until you fall into their endless pitfalls).
Eclipse? Nice IDE circa 2001, Nowadays, not so much. Bloated as hell, buggy as hell, 90% of the plugins suck, and it’s way overcomplicated to do what should be simple, routine tasks. Netbeans is really nice, but most of the Java community turns its nose up at it because, well, you wouldn’t want things to be too easy? Intellij is really good, but lacks in automation of certain things, and again, most just “default” to Eclipse.
Maven? Love it’s dependency management. Don’t love it so much when it tries to download dependencies it doesn’t really need every time you do a build, and the builds take an eternity, or they fail. And there are tons of rants/blogs out there lamenting about the ridiculous pitfalls of Maven.
Let’s not even talk about the endless web frameworks (all of which are great for certain things, suck for other things, have a lot of overlap/redundancy, and all are completely incompatible), or the various app servers (same thing as with web frameworks). By contrast ASP.Net (and ASP.Net MVC) isn’t all that and bag of chips, but for the most part, it gets the job done, and it’s pretty easy to work with, and you don’t have to constantly relearn for the next “latest and greatest open source web framework).
And anecdotal evidence (for whatever that’s worth, probably not much), shows over and over (yes I read plenty of blogs/rants for the fun of it) shows that, in general, what would take a .Net, PHP, Ruby, Python Dev about two days to accomplish, will take a JEE dev about two weeks or more to get done, because they have so much more shit to deal with. Sometimes, due to the scale and needs of that app, all that JEE shit is necessary (and the other stuff might fall short). But those are the minority of the cases. The trouble with the JEE world is that everything takes the stance of trying to solve the biggest and most complex of problems, and then applies that to everything, regardless of the application/problem domain. Thus, all the unnecessary complexity.
Personally, I couldn’t care less platform/language/tools/IDE religious wars. For me, it’s all good and interesting. But as I’ve gotten older, I’ve more and more wanted to steer away from the Java world, because developing in that world just isn’t fun. It’s painful. And it’s elitist. I just want to get shit done and go home at night. True, Java devs tend to top the pay scale, but not by much. But they deserve it, because they have to work so much harder, longer, and deal with so much more pain. Hell, they deserve to be paid twice as much as everyone else, but they only get paid maybe 5% to 10% more (at best) more than equivalent .Net/PHP/Ruby/Python/C++ devs. 😉
Qt Creator has that, of course.
Why not?
If you don’t need some feature, just don’t use it.
But when you need it, it is there, WELL INTEGRATED into your workflow.
Because: IDE = Integrated Dev. Env.
*sigh*
Read: http://pragprog.com/the-pragmatic-programmer
you should use the tool that is most effective. If it is VS then use that if it is QtCreator than use that…
In my personal usage I can only say:
VS2010 without VisualAssist was unusable in an unmanaged C++ project with >400000 lines of code. With VisualAssist it is quite fine. VS2010 still has the best debugger I know, although no utf-32 support which made it difficult to debug our string class…
The downside is the slow GUI and the 1-2 Crashes a day and 2-3 Minutes to restart. Not to mention the occasional hang for 30 seconds.
QtCreator instead is a lean IDE which supports just the things I need. Fast and Quick. If it crashes, which happens perhaps once a day, it is up and running again in 30 seconds. The GUI debugger I find is not so usable.
So I find myself working with both tools …
Completely agreed.
I like Visual Studio a lot, but because it is Windows-only, its not-so-good “intellisense” for C++ projects and its poor support for the new C++11 standards, make Qt Creator the best option for me.
Does it takes 5 minutes to start? Does it randomly crash? Does it insist on maintaining a list of files contained inside of the project which causes merging issues all the time and is completely redundant with the actual filesystem? Does it have context menus so overflowing with useless stuff that you have to scroll through them to find the one thing you need? Does it randomly hang for a few seconds when you click inside of a file? Does it still offer a small and unresizeable window to tweak C++ project settings and paths in the year 2012?
Qt creator is a good IDE, but is not comparable yet with VS.
Edited 2012-02-25 14:50 UTC
You are just trolling.
Actually, I am not. I did parody your own reply, but I only used actual examples of the many detestable things that visual studio does repeatedly as I use it all day long, every day as part of my job, and that it has been doing more and more over the years, update after update.
It really IS a huge piece of shit.
Edited 2012-02-25 15:29 UTC
Nah, you just don’t know how to use it.
Read my first post in this thread again. If you actually believe what you just said about any of these, I would venture that you are yourself a grossly incompetent developer.
Yeah, whatever you say troll.
Edited 2012-02-25 16:16 UTC
Let me summarize these VS 2011 advancements:
1. We’ve re-arranged the toolbars
2. We’ve muted the colors and “lines”.
This is what we’ve also done:
1. Killed Silverlight
2. Killed WPF
3. Killed Winforms
Now we have no client front-end development strategy, but we have a nifty looking dev tool. We’ve strung along developers for 10 years, and it was a fool’s errand.
Perhaps this is why Delphi has had such a large sales increase over the last year of 54%. At least the VCL has been consistent (and powerful) for 17 years. People like supported products.
Ah, no, You are confusing VS with the .NET Framework, Silverlight and WPF have new features in the recent release, besides, VS it self is build with WPF, so it is silly to think they are killing it, Winforms for the other hand is very active and with the native orientation of Windows 8 it will gain new steam.
And in what in concern to Delphi? really VCL? please. The main problem with the VCL it is that is not compatible between releases, for example, I can use in VS2010 an assembly generated in VS2003 with no problems, Delphi by the other hand, it breaks VCL compatibility with every release, So If I have bpl (the Delphi package equivalent to a .NET assembly) made with Delphi 7, it will not work even on Delphi 8 or 9 or 2010 or the newest.
The blog is short and it doesn’t cover all the changes.
Edited 2012-02-24 19:14 UTC
MS is touting meaningless chrome adjustments to VS 2011, while dumping large frameworks.
MS kills frameworks by simply dropping all marketing of them, which has happened to all 3 of these: SL, WPF, and winforms. Remember, WPF is the replacement to winforms, which has long been deprecated. WPF and SL used to get huge promotions, but now they are completely dead.
The entire MS dev community is completely confused by their direction – it’s a complete mess.
As for Delphi, you are complaining about “possibly” having to recompile an EXE with a new release of the VCL, while Microsoft strings programmers along with THREE complete frameworks over a 10 year period, and then dumps all 3?
That’s slightly hyperbolic. There is a strategy, there is a path forward. The same techniques and languages are used. The complete mess you are talking about is really a non-event. Silverlight is going to be supported for years and new development should be done as WinRT.
Whats the big deal?
C++ devs can now use XAML…so XAML is still a first class ui citizen. So can the dot net languages.
I personally think even desktop app developers should be doing their ui in html and css…but hey.
And if winforms has been deprecated no one has told the legions of enterprise developers that are still using it.
If your livelihood was actually tied to any of these technologies then you would have done more…shall we say accurate…research.
But keep crying on a message board and one day your favorite Linux distro will finally have its year on the desktop;
While Silverlight is “dead man walking” it will be supported for another ~10 years. So, it is not dead.
And WPF is neither, quite the opposite, it is going to get improved in .NET 4.5.
As a .NET business software developer I’m dreaming that one day I’ll come to work and WinForms will be dead and we’ll finally be using XAML for GUI stuff…
Oh no, Im not complaigning about have to recompile the bpl on Delphi with every new release, after all, I have the source, but if I’m using third party bpls w/o the source witch is something usual for Delphi developers you are screwed.
As part of the MS dev community (and a former Linux/C guy), I disagree in part. The web application framework, ASP.Net, is alive and well, and has a clear direction. The few shops that went with Silverlight are screwed, yes. Front-end native developers, not quite so bad – WPF isn’t going anywhere AFAIK, and WinForms is still going to be around for a while, too.
It’s clear that VB has been going away for a long time; C# is the premier language on MS platforms and will be for a decade at least.
The only place I have any uncertainty is with deciding whether it will ever make sense to use MS’s built-in ORM/database layers, or go with the defacto standard third-party stuff like NHibernate. However, that really only matters with the lightweight CRUD database access, which isn’t a problem to code by hand in ADO.Net. For performance reasons, real reporting SQL is going to be done by hand (unless you’re using SQL Server Analysis Services and MDX, which is its own beast entirely).
My failure to address other parts of the MS dev world are due to my own ignorance. It seems to me most MS shops are doing C#/ASP.Net in my area (Northeast USA).
You simply have to recompile and they work fine and dandy
even in XE2 assuming you have the source, and most 3rd party components include the source, and if you doing run time you just have to recompile the package.
Delphi XE2 is really nice and I would take it and the native single exe applications it creates any day over Visual Studio .not.
Most developers simply do not use BPL for run time packages since you can compile everything right into the exe.
Even if you don’t use the runtime packages the bpls are necessary for compilation, and in some cases, even with the source the migration may not be an easy task, first, with the migration to UTF-8 strings (and if you are using a component that is making calls to an external .dll made in c then good luck with that)
then with the migration to 64 bits integers.
I wish they would be better in this area, just allowing some degree of compatibility between releases.
Edited 2012-02-25 16:33 UTC
I remember migrating Delphi 1 code (16-bit) to Delphi 2 (32-bit). So many hidden issues. Then some code went to Delphi 3 via Delphi 2 or from Delphi 1 (depending on how far te port was in progress.) that was even harder in some cases, as the Delphi 2 release sort of “hacked” around the conversion to 32-bit in some areas. And then there was the custome collection classes that had been ported to Delphi 1 from Borland Pascal 8 (the Delphi 1 beta, before is got renamed and dropped support for DOS.) mostly coded in inline Assembler. NOW THAT WAS A PORT!
Bottom line – it’s total BS to claim Delphi is backwards compatible with little cost. It is not. Every port forward requires a complete recursive test and full regression testing. It literally costs 6 months+ on any sizeable product and is not feasible in many cases.
Our .Net 2 code still compiles in VS 2010 and runs fine. And our 1.1 assemblies still link and work as described. Try doing tat with a BPL from any prior version of Delphi… Or DCU. Yeah we still have to regression test, but as te code is compiling against the same target, it’s pretty simple to do.
This is a nice claim, but my experience was that Delphi shops tend to stick on a known good version for years (I was still using Delphi 5 in 2006.) It was never fun getting Delphi 6+ code to compile, but gosh darn it, we did.
Delphi was nice, but it doesn’t have half the polish that .Net does. Linq and Reflection alone crap all over Delphi as I last used it. The VCL is crumbly and old. It has some serious design flaws, some stuff (BPL) were crap and unreliable.
You can do this with .net. You can pre Jit it, combine all of the assemblies in to one and even AOT compile it.
WPF is the foundation of Visual Studio and XAML is part of it. So I wonder how they are killing it.
WinForms is still used a lot on the enterprise world.
As much as I like Delphi, I really would like to know where you got those values from. I develop enterprise level applications, and there it is always Java, .NET or C++ in some cases.
Really? If that’s actually true it’s awesome but it wouldnt hurt if you could back this up somewhow.
Delphi XE2 has indeed become fairly popular thanks to the native win64 and Mac OSX support as well as the cross platform FireMonkey GUI, pretty nice stuff people.
it won’t be long and you will be able to cross compile for Linux as well as Mac OSX
Not to mention Delphi is still the best way to create Database applications.
It is a fact:
http://www.embarcadero.com/br/press-releases/embarcadero-technologi…
All that is is a press release with absolutely no substance. One could claim similar gains if one sold 100 licenses last year and 208 this year. It also talks about their entire development range that includes a C++ compiler, PHP integrated dev and DotNet version of Delphi called Prism. Pure Delphi is a subset of what they declared. As its a press release it’s about as accurate as Bill Clinton’s denial of sexual relations with Lewinski, or OJ Simpsons entire court case back in the 90’s.
Edit: also worth noting, their “Mac” and iOS support comes from them reusing the FreePascal compiler. So, really, Embarcadero is a lot of smoke and Mirrors. They bought in the .Net support from RemObjects (and that compiler had pretty shocking code generation last time I tried it, admittedly back in the first release), the borrowed support for Mac from the FreePascal community and they created yet another framework to support cross platform development. “Yay!?”
Edited 2012-02-28 22:42 UTC
No colorful icons. Not even in Solution explorer.
This is such a wrong move, it is much harder to id items in Solution Explorer (and other toolbars).
I hope they bring colors back. This is pure madness
Dark theme looks good, except for the total lack of colors.
Please comment here and let them know what you think:
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2012/02/23/introducing…
I am not sold on those icons, I also don’t like “everything becoming flat”, I like V2005-V2008 transition.
Please click that link and comment there. They need to hear from us. Please do it and ask your co-workers to do the same, whatever their opinion is.
I have
.
I couldn’t agree more. Why would monochrome be better? why?
Please use that link and go there and leave a comment, so they know… Please.
Soon we can expect colors to be removed from text editor too? You know, who needs syntax highlighting..? 🙂
That (monochrome) look and feel should be an option, nothing more.
Edited 2012-02-25 17:02 UTC
I did. But I noticed a lot of nut cases that actually liked(!) the monochrome colors. Good grief.
The word subjective comes to mind.
Their opinion is sub something, that’s for sure… :-p
Edited 2012-02-28 12:35 UTC
So they have this new quick lauch bar, which allows you to find the command you want to activate.
Ok.
It looks like a search box. But it doesn’t search your content, but the commands.
They even demonstrate it in the article by searching for the find command.
My mind is now completely boggled. They searched for Find so they could search for something in the code.
To come full circle, If I ever use VS 11, I’ll have to create a function called Search.
So I can Quick Launch Find to Find Search.
This is because Visual Studio is a beast of an application, I have been working with it since 2006 (VS2003) and I still find new stuff in the UI that I didn’t know was there.
In all fairness, I really doubt they needed to do a search to find “find,” and that was just a bad choice.
Umm, out users complain there is too much bloat…
Umm, lets remove colors!
Some of it is alright (better search etc), but I really like the VS2010 look for the most part.
Or C compiler, as us common folk call it.
:sigh:
Finally something that looks really good.
I don’t use VS, but now I can consider to install express edition. It is so beautiful.
lol. You decide what IDE to use by how beautiful it looks to you?
Yep. I don’t care about features.
My current IDE is Vim+Gcc+Far
I can see why VS would look good in comparison 🙂
People need to stop following MS like a bunch of lemmings. Take a look at Delphi people and if you can’t afford it, then look to Lazarus and FreePascal which
is getting really nice and you can do real work with Lazarus.
Free Pascal is an awesome compiler. It is totally overlooked by many developers – which is a same really. It supports so many various platforms, is very fast and continuously improving with every release. As for IDE’s with Free Pascal, there is Lazarus, MSEide – both awesome projects as well.
100% agree on FreePascal, it’s really maturing nicely.
I was doing a DOC to PDF converter in Delphi using COM and OpenOffice and I though I should try to do this project with Lazarus and FPC and it turned out great, and
I found a few things Lazarus does better than XE2.
Anyway the DOC to PDF converter turned out great and then I did a GUI firewall app using Synapse and that also turned out great and these apps are being used in a major
corporation, so the whole thing about VS being great for corps is pure bull.
Seriously people when you deploy your app and the users don’t have to install a ton of assembly dependencies they will thank you. FreePascal and Delphi are secrets you need to try out ha ha ha
Yeah, I’ve used Lazarus, it is a underrated gem, actually Lazarus + Firebird SQL = powerful multiplatform native application.
I did this minimum test in Ubuntu some time ago (It
http://imagebin.org/200756
I was surprised how good it worked and how well integrated it was.
People, give it a chance.
Edited 2012-02-25 16:41 UTC
Errr… Sorry, that’s FUD. Do you know how we deploy our .net apps? Simple, we copy the contents of the release folder to the target machines. Or we use the installer project. Either gives the same result. We argent .Net 3.5 and As that is part of Win 7, you know what? Most already have it. Do you know what? The runtime is generally installed on most Vista and SP3 XP boxes too.
Now, let’s talk Delphi…. COM objects, DLL dependencies, database engines (client or c/s.) I’ve never seen a corporate Delphi app that was a “copy and go”. Not that I’ve worked on, and I did Delphi development full time professionally from June 1998 till early 2006 then on and off till mid 2007 when I went full time .Net. I worked on all kinds of app, did some contracting, did Media, Financial, Defence, Logistics and some general Security including RFID integration, Mobile data (win mobile with in car black boxes) and some cool stuff with bespoke object based data storage (think, Object instances streamed in to a bespoke data store, fully indexed and fully networked with multiple user access.) All I can think is that your apps are quite trivial?
I’ll learn Delphi when the majority of tech jobs list it as a requirement, most places where I live want C# or Java Developers.
Like it or not most jobs are either Java, C#, PHP, C++ with some sort of SQL platform.
Edited 2012-02-25 16:51 UTC
True, and the universities teaching Delphi are also minumun and are dissapearing, I think Brazil is the only place it is popular in schools.
In Europe is also mostly used in legacy applications.
Most of the time I see job offers that refer Delphi, they are tied to some migration project to either Java or .NET.
Cool i use vs at school and at home.
does anyone know when vs11 will be released
Oh boy, it’s going wrong already.
I like the muted colors and monochromatic look though. I actually wish there were any good monochromatic (both black and white) icons for KDE.
It feels sad to see so much software attempt to follow the footsteps of the Photoshop GUI, that is, “Keep the visible part of the UI as simplistic and monochromatic as possible while new stuff keeps piling up in menus and undiscoverable popups”.
Menus are not a magical infinite feature reservoir. Put too much stuff in them and they break. Big software should either manage its feature set more carefully or embrace its command-line nature and just completely replace menus with a gigantic command search bar and a huge manual.
Edited 2012-02-25 08:14 UTC