Most of you probably remember the Moho competition we ran about a month ago. After that article, our friends over at PCLinuxOnline ran a story asking Lost Marble to port Moho to Linux. While the popular cartoon-making application runs fine under WINE, Lost Marble actually did the full port with the help of GTK+ 2.0. The (small) company recently released version 4.0.2 for Windows, MacOS9/X and now, for Red Hat Linux 8.0. They are looking for feedback, bug reports and they would like to know if their port actually works on other distros additionally to Red Hat 8.0. Here is a screenshot under Red Hat 8.
Lost Marble Releases Moho Beta for Linux
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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They did listen to me =)
A commercial product released for Linux (good!), but tailored only to a single distro. Will this be the norm as other apps are ported? ‘To use this app, you must be running version y of distro x’ … For Linux’s sake, I certainly hope this isn’t a taste of what’s to come. Because unless you’re running the most ‘popular’ distro(s), you might be shit outta luck.
Don’t forget that this is only a first beta. I know that Lost Marble already has its mind to make sure that the app DOES work with other distros as well. They had to start from somewhere, that’s all.
It’s good to see apps like this being ported – this is exactly the thing Linux needs. Screw standardization – if someone ports Cubase, Reason, and a few other apps, I’m there
What is wrong with just focusing on the main/most popular distribution? at the end of the day, do you really think this company has the money to test their software on 100s of difference distributions? hell no. I’m sure this company has better things to do than that, like improving the product and creating new ones.
As for Red Hat 8.0, it is perfect for anyone looking for an easy to use distribution supported by a company that has been around for a while. Red Hat 8.1 will build upon 8.0 and provide an even better alternative platform for users.
The number of people who have been zapped by “now you see me, now you don’t” companies cold easily be counted if you went into any forum. Mandrake will join that pile. However, Mandrakes problems are more born out of the fact that they product was crap quality, hence, no incentive for anyone to purchase the boxed version. Red Hat however, will hang around, and if in the future they remove the right for a free download, I would have no problems with it.
You must be a speical person.. Perhaps, you can request it to release the source rather than binary for us? 😉 It would be easier for people to able compile on the different Linux distros and even maybe it will work on BSD (and diff platforms) too. Lesser headache for us.
> Perhaps, you can request it to release the source rather than binary for us?
Out of the question. I wouldn’t want Lost Marble releasing their IP and getting nothing in return. Moho is all they got. They are a small company, Mike has worked really hard for this app since 1999, I see absolutely no reason to release the source code and getting back nothing for it.
I am sure that IF this version will actually sell under Linux, Mike WILL port it to other Unices. So, here is your chance. If you want Moho so badly, buy it. And Mike will follow with requests for ports.
Wrong version of glibc, yuck !
(version `GLIBC_2.3′ not found)
i’ll have to upgrade, then ..
Ah yes, RH 8.x has the new GLIBC…
Mike, please add to the requirements page that glibc 2.3.x is also required additionally to GTK+ 2.x.
Someone has to say it, so here it goes …
Where is my updated Moho for BeOS … this was realy a nice program and would continue to used it ..
Best of luck to them.
will this be the norm for new apps being ported to Linux? my guess would be yes, most companies will either port to United Linux or Red Hat, or both if your lucky.
why? there is not enough standardization among distros and it’s a nightmare to have to create packages for each individual distro, plus support all of them. Which libraries to use, what toolkits, what kernel (i am talking about versions of these not which as in qt vs. gtk, though that’s another story)
then how do you make sure your item is added to the “start/k/g” menu so end users will actually be able to find your programs.
until the day comes when you can create ONE package and have it install on all major distro’s most are just going to focus on one or two of the top ones…and you can’t really blame them for that.
What is wrong with just focusing on the main/most popular distribution?
Well, nothing is particularly ‘wrong’ with it per say, but it just goes to show what is becoming (or what already has been) a big problem with Linux.
If you can’t release one binary that runs under all distros, whether you like it or not, it means that Linux has splintered, with several dozen distros that are (more or less) incompatible with each other. (Different kernels/compilers/toolkits/etc.) The only hope you have is that the source will be released, but for the majority of commercial apps that might get ported, there’s no way in hell that is going to happen.
So, what does this mean? It means for Linux users, once more of the good commercial apps start to get ported, unless you’re using the ‘big’ 2-3 distros, you’re going to miss out and either a) the smaller distros will either fade into oblivion or serve a very niche market as they do now or b) you’re going to start seeing these smaller distros become ‘Redhat compliant’
I will admit that there are some advantages to having so much choice with Linux. But in cases like this, I think it really hurts more than it helps.
I will definetely support them and buy their product, I have Flash 6 MX too, and so I should be comfortable with it quite fast.
This is Redhat only now, but I am sure this will change in the future as users report which distributions work and which do not. It really is not very hard to port from one distro to another. However, I think this is a huge problem, and hopefully as linux becomes more standardized this issue will slowly fade away.
Thanks =)
There’s one more point that has to be looked when people talks about other plataforms software comming to linux.
Normally, linux software have a very poor and not intuitive interface to the user. This is a major point that has to be looked if linux really wanna get some points on desktops.
Softwares from other plataforms, like windows, mac, and BeOS (why not! ) always had a better inteface than linux, because they always needed that to sell and get money. The linux community was never concerned about this kind of analysis of usability (almost a major part… ).
Moho is a prove that Linux can have more intuitive, easy, and more beautifull softwares. The software just looks so well, that’s dificulty will not be an excuse to people not use linux. If others softwares go on the same line (like gimp, or several others), linux will have a great chance to get a good part of the market.
I had used Moho on BeOS for a while, and thats a great software. Good look to you guys, with this version to Red Hat.
Our intention is not specifically to support *only* Red Hat. Red Hat seemed like a good starting point, but we’re open to other distros. Send feedback to [email protected], and tell us what you want Moho to run on. Keep in mind that Moho is a commercial product – if you actually intend to buy a copy, that would be a lot more meaningful to us.
To tell the truth, this “splintering” of Linux isn’t a bad thing. It really boils down to the specific compiler glibc/gcc used to compile the program. Everything else can be handled via something like Alien. The glibc/gcc thing is something that I really *don’t* want to be standardized. glibc-2.3.x is not completely stable at the moment. I use it in Gentoo, and RedHat uses it (but then again, RedHat used 2.2.99!) but if I was running a mission critical server on something like Debian, I wouldn’t want to use it.
PS> The GLIBC/GCC issue really is the only compatibility problem. I’ve yet to find a RedHat program (even commercial stuff like Houdini) whose’s RPMs couldn’t be coaxed into running on Gentoo.
Out of the question. I wouldn’t want Lost Marble releasing their IP and getting nothing in return. Moho is all they got. They are a small company, Mike has worked really hard for this app since 1999, I see absolutely no reason to release the source code and getting back nothing for it.
Sorry, I fail to see how can it can get back it for nothing. Put source code and license it to not allow people to distrub (sp?) it. No company can use the source code when you license them to very limit.
Hey, I released my cartoon making program for Linux a long time ago…
http://www.hacsimile.co.za/tisfat/
My stick figure animation program that I released last year some time, and to this day, cannot find a site that actually mentions it (I tried several sites, osdir, freshmeat)… poor me. Aw shame and all that.
Ok, so granted, you need to have Kylix to run it, but -hey-.
And if I’m not allowed to whine here, then you can’t whine about me whining. HAH!
Hehe, that’s actually pretty funny =) Stick Figure Animation, I think the name could use a bit of work though, maybe that’s why nobody knew about it.
Anyway, I doubt it is as powerful as Moho. I will give it a whirl though.
Firstly a big thanks to Lost Marble for this release. I have all the artist talent of a two year old, but nonetheless it’s good to see apps be released like this.
Rayner is quite correct, the biggest issue with binaries is the transition to glibc 2.3.x and gcc 3.2 (which only really affects c++ apps) – look how long we used the current glibc.
This does kind of suck, but actually I believe the problem can be avoided if you compile on a 2.1.x distro: glibc versions are basically backwards compatible, although I believe Wine got torched by Phoebe that’s because they were relying on an internal implementation which changed.
Standard packaging formats are a big issue yes, especially for commercial software companies. Stuff like menu integration and what not is pretty easy, even on version 0.2.1 autopackage can deal with that stuff (though by the time we release chances are good that everyone will be using the new system). It comes down then to binary compatability.
To Lost Marble: I’d be interested to know what you’d need for a distro-neutral commercial package. I’d guess a EULA…. anything else?
Lost Marble actually did the full port with the help of GTK+ 2.0
By looking at the screenshot, this is not based on GTK2. And no, it’s not a different theme, look at the gnome2 panel, they use bluecurve as their gtk2 theme…
Well, they might use pango and gdk, but not gtk2 for widgets at least.
This may help you (from Lost Marble’s website):
http://www.lostmarble.com/moho/linuxnotes.shtml
System Requirements
Moho for Linux was built on Red Hat 8, and that’s the only distribution we are claiming it runs on. You may have luck with other distros, we just don’t know. Although Moho has its own widget set, it uses GTK+ 2.0 for basic window handling, file dialogs, etc. If you do try Moho on a non-Red Hat distro, be sure you’ve at least got GTK+ 2.0.
That I guess explains why it doesn’t really look like a GTK app.
That I guess explains why it doesn’t really look like a GTK app.
Yes, indeed. And thinking at it, it makes perfectly sense, the widgets they use are the same on windows too. So I guess they built their own toolkit on top of either windows, gtk2 or MacOS depending on the target system.
Hehehe, I wonder why I posted that anyway, ‘cuz frankly, who cares as long as it works as expected and it’s a native port to Linux ?
Good to see such an app on Linux
btw i really like that custom widget design of moho.. would be great to have a GTK/QT skin like that..
The only solution which i see to the problem of having dependencies on different library versions is that distrubutions need to have packages for older libraries as well as for the latest and greatest ones (not for all libraries, but most needed big ones, like libc, gtk, qt etc). Small and rare libraries can be linked statically to commercial applications, but it would be pain for something like libc.
The other thing is, that it must be ease to install binary package with missing dependencies. Only way to solve this is to install these depencies automatically (eighter by asking user to insert distributions installation CD, or better yet, download from network when possible).
Debian’s apt almost does this, but it doesn’t seem to support installing dependencies automatically for a deb file not beeing in some repository (maybe i’ve missed something).
why complain? try first.
it works on linux mandrake 9.1 beta 2
tried myself
This is the sort of thing the LSB was created for, if they work on being LSB compliant it would go a long way towards getting their product to run on other distros (I know for a fact both Mandrake and SUSE are LSB compliant).
-Vig