WSJ has an article on OpenBeOS featuring Michael Phipps, Timothy Lord from Slashdot and Eric Raymond. “As far as I can see, OpenBeOS is more an admirable aesthetic experiment,” says Timothy Lord. “As it is,” he adds, “they’re esoteric among esoterica.”“I like simple designs,” says Mr. Phipps, who has been programming computers since he was eight years old. His goals for OpenBeOS include keeping the code pithy, keeping it well organized, and making sure it runs software rapidly.Despite its technical merits, Mr. Raymond doubts that OpenBeOS will ever be widely adopted. (And, it should be noted, even Mr. Phipps recognizes that OpenBeOS faces a tough future.)
Within the open-source community, Linux is the favored operating system. As such, Mr. Raymond believes programmers will be more inclined to take OpenBeOS’s admirable traits and roll them into Linux rather than actually use OpenBeOS. Still, Mr. Raymond believes the BeOS architecture is alluring, and he believes a critique used by bridge builders is apt.
Take Linux, a variant of the three-decades-old Unix platform, that has its feet firmly locked in tradition. It is unquestionably robust. It runs a large collection of powerful software. And it’s clunky, Mr. Phipps says. Mr. Phipps hopes his group will have completed an alpha or beta release — programming jargon for test versions of software, with the latter more developed than the former — by August, OpenBeOS’s two-year anniversary. By then, OpenBeOS will have a new name to avoid any conflict with Palm.
To read the whole article, you would need to register to WSJ.
I think that while most of the tech will get roled into Linux, many users will use OBOS becasue of the easy of programing and nice UI.
I follow OpenBeOS with interest and an ounce of caution, there is no doubt that Mr. Phipps is getting the word out about it. The WSJ is a pretty big score to get his message across. While I seem to watch Syllable’s progress more than OpenBeOS’s, it will be great to be able to choose which OS to boot into.
Anyway, yes a WSJ article that doesnt damn you is about the best advertisement possible.
Hmm, is this URL illegal? If yes, I will have to delete it. Please answer truthfully, I am not fooling around here.
Thanks, I would never register anyway. The link is loose on beshare, you bad bad thieves.
I’ll feel guilty when I read that article, if that makes you feel any better.
I have to go to confession now.
Eugenia:
IANAL, but I do play one on TV… how can a URL be illegal? AFAIK there are no reliable precedents showing that any sort of deep linking is breach of copyright. A url is just a reference after all…
No, you have it wrong.
When someone is linking a warezed version of software, the companies will email you to take that link down. Same way, WSJ can do so, as the link reffers to their PROPERTY which is available only via a fee. I respect that.
Nice scoop Eugenia. The article (linked from the comments 🙂 was very nicely done, and even had commentry from Eric S. Raymond, which is probably the first comments he’s publicly made about OBOS. And he likes it 🙂
’til they ask you to take it down, or sue you, whichever comes first
for quoting from the article, unless you had consent from the copyright holder…
Don’t you love the law?
Hmm, maybe US law is different, but in this case, you are not linking to a copy of the article which is a copyright infringing copy (ie illegal), but to a non-infringing html page published by the owner of the copyright (WSJ).
ie it’s different from the Warez/DeCSS situation
Oh, and to anger_man: at least under Oz law you have the right to quote from the article for the purpose of reporting news, or for the purpose of criticism of review (Copyright Act 1968 ss41, 42). Of course this is only true for Australia, so ymmv.
wsj lets you ’email this’ and i’m not sure you have to be a subscriber to view the goods…
What do I see in small chars at the bottom of the page ?
“The readers’ comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.”
=)
But it’s also true lawyers are getting dumber and dumber and may not even pay attention to this :^)
Where were they 3 years ago? You know, when they could have made a difference is saving the original? Palm had better do nice things in the next year or so.
Marco Nelissen Sues Sandwich Boy
http://www.404company.com/bedoper
Sorry, but I’m confused. What link? The only link that I see is the link to the article, but I still need to subscribe to get to that. So…what exactly are you guys talking about???
programmers will be more inclined to take OpenBeOS’s admirable traits and roll them into Linux rather than actually use OpenBeOS.
Unlikely. OpenTracker is out for years now, and despite the demand we haven’t seen any Linux ports of it yet. Same goes for other non-Linux OSS, e.g. OpenFX (which still requires WINE).
OpenTracker is the client of the BFS. As long there is no BFS on Linux (as there isn’t) neither the Be API, OpenTracker is pretty much *unportable*. It would need to be rewritten.
>they could sue you anyway for quoting from the article, unless you had consent from the copyright holder… Don’t you love the law?
you should read the fair use provision of the us copyright law:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html
a commercial entity (i.e. osnews.com) can reproduce a small portion of a copyrighted work without being in violation.
a non-commercial educational entity (i.e. a university) could reproduce the whole thing without being in violation, if it was pertinant to the class discussion.
It’s nice to see this mentioned in a “publication” of such … uh… “Stature.” I am a little tweaked by the Raymond comments that pretty much amount to “hey, it’s elegent, but who cares, no one will use it because Linux is the defacto standard status-quo alternative operating system.” Must we play the “remember what they used to say about Linux when it first started” game?
Jace, I agree with you there. But even read back on other articles with Raymond about other open source licensing (ie, not GPL)… He’s like “it’s not my idea, forget about it” or “if I don’t agree, then you shouldn’t” in his attitude sometimes, IMHO.
Still cool to reaffirm that there are people outside the OpenBeOS community that know about it – and people in high places at that. Important eyes are watching it/us, I tell you.
Deej
ER, also has similar comments about the hurd, that does not stop them from developing
same applies to the openbeos team, code on.
Now I know why Michael P. hasn’t set up my CVS account yet. Too busy hobnobbing it with the gentry.
haiqu
p.s. I just bought a Mac if anyone has a spare copy of BeOS 5 Pro they don’t need. I figure _someone_ has to support it.
?????
I see a page with agreement terms, but no have a button “I Agree” somebody can help me?
Michael
I am glad to see the article on WSJ, but i dont see where it has a point. The article seems to say that MP doesnt himself consider his work creative, but then says “But he’s wrong.” Um, well, ok. So you have someone else to argue otherwise?! I Also find it funny that he talks about Cruft and legacy negatively and then mentions that OPEN BEOS AIMS TO BE A BINARY REPLACEMENT OF BEOS. Is that not the peak of Legacy?!
I am slightly angered, (showing my allegiances, maybe) when i read how Be Inc WRECKLESSLY BURNED THROUGH MMMILLLIONS OF DOLLARS. Well, this wasnt boo.com was it? They did actually used that money to make a pretty sexy operating system, didnt they?
Im not any better of a writer than the author, but I think I might make a different point: OpenBeOS is a creative indeavor in how it is a magnificent exercise of the left brain. And Left Brain >= Right Brain
Very nice article, very interesting read. I do happen to agree BeOS as in OpenBeOS has a lot of catching up to do and I dont think you will see a major niche in that department. The BeOS is dead, Im sorry to say. They should be trying to improve Linux instead of ressurecting a failed OS.
I’m pretty sure there is now a BFS driver in the official Linux kernel now. I don’t know how effective it is, though.
That is just a BFS driver, not a BFS filesystem for Linux, which is what OpenTracker needs in order to be portable…
Why would they support linux? Not that I hate linux or anything(my primary OS), but the linux community is like a bunch of different sized boxes stacked upon eachother, with varied weight, replace ONE box that isn’t exactly like the box before it the boxes above it will come down on it(becuase its differnet than the boxes above it hate it because of polical or just pure bias reasoning).
All these boxes are different projects that make up the operating system that we refer to as linux.
Note: This problaby doesn’t make alot of sence.
Can people please stop pushing in Linux every time there is a discussion. Face the fact, Linux is just for people who hasn’t come to realize that BSD lies around…
I actually think that OpenBeOS WILL become a big OS on the market. It will take a couple of years like most things, but the mere fact that those who used BeOS loves BeOS is a good start. If you never loose any people in the community but allways expand, then you have the odds on your side.
People seem to miss out that being exposed in media is not the same thing as being cared about in someone’s heart. That should be a pretty fair explanation to the difference between Linux and BeOS on the consumer market.
What OBOS could really use is 20 more hardcore devs and some project management, ’cause we haven’t seen much of that…
Look forward to R1
[i]That is just a BFS driver, not a BFS filesystem for Linux, which is what OpenTracker needs in order to be portable…[i/]
Still. Considering how fast the OBOS team was with implementing BFS, I’m very surprised that there are no efforts to implement OT on Linux/XFS or to write a clone of OT. I’m pretty sure there’d be a demand for a OpenTracker-like filemanager; Konq and Nautilus are feature-hogging monsters, and ROX looks very unpolished compared to OT.
> They should be trying to improve Linux instead
> of ressurecting a failed OS.
Yeah, that what sucks hard with free time developers:
they tends to do *only* what *they* want to do, never what *you* want them to do (for you, or your community, that is…).
How lame is that, you tell me!?!
😉
PS: Can’t ressurection be seen as a big
improvment for a dead/failed OS, too?
It seems everytime BeOS gets mentioned on this site, someone exclaims with /authentic/ shock and horror that a group of people would dare attempt to replicate the BeOS of old.
Well here’s a news flash for you.
You have to learn to crawl before you can walk.
The openBeOS initiative plans to replicate BeOS R5, as openBeOS R1, and from that point on, continue development as would be dictatd by the group and natural progression of the OS.
Pretty simple. You must learn to do the basics before you can tackle the hard stuff.
Now granted, it’s taken some time to show real improvement in the work, but hell, these are volunteers. Give them a break. I applaud them. I salute them. I do not criticize them harshly for spending their time on it, and neither should anyone else, including people who should be objective in their “journalistic” reporting practices.
Which brings me to another point I’ve been keeping to myself, but must let out.
I thought you were taking a vacation (at the least), Eugenia?
In the span of time since you announced you were leaving OSNews, you’ve posted well over 50 stories. You deserve to take a break. Seriously.
Ok, my rant is over.
Have a great day.
-Chris Simmons,
Avid BeOS User.
The BeOSJournal.
http://www.beosjournal.org
I think ESR bets too much on his Linux horse.
I’m using NetBSD, mainly because it’s well-documented, and has good software support, which isn’t there for BeOS.
But still, every time I boot into BeOS, I’m impressed, how good it looks, how fast it is, and how user-friendly.
I haven’t looked at Gnome 2.2, but if it’s anything like KDE 3, then I don’t want to wait for it to start, and no, I don’t want to buy a new machine, just because some people can’t seem to design _efficient_ software, something which the Be guys obviously did.
BeOS is POSIX compliant, but still _all_ of the complexity and suck that exists in the Unix world is missing.
Corporate people will use Linux, but consumers *will* prefer OBOS when its finally ready and has more software.
Thanks Chris! You are absolutely right!
I would say more: even if they fail, it’s a big job they do. Maybe at the end Palm will wake up.
you all should be alarmed that eugenia is so willing to delete posts. what will happen when a company actually issues a c&d about some comment you have about that organization? will she fold even quicker than she does when there is no corporate pressure?
anyway, here are a few non-wsj links:
http://www.freelists.org/archives/openbeos/
http://www.freelists.org/archives/openbeos/02-2003/fullthread4.html
http://www.freelists.org/archives/openbeos/02-2003/fullthread5.html
I came to this story when it was around 20 comments or so.
I thought it odd that people were talking about the story, but I didn’t see a link anywhere.
I checked for modded down comments, but didn’t see any either.
So, Eugenia deleted a posting? Well, that sets a precedent right there. She’s taking responsibility for the actions of people, in the “public space”.
The moment you do that, Eugenia, then -EVERY- action made by -ANYONE- on this site is now your responsibility.
Let’s test this theory.
Mr. Bill Gates: I call you a plague upon this earth. I want to kill you. I am preparing information necessary to bring about your death.
Eugenia, you going to delete my posting, or let it stand as is?
Either way, try to have a nice day. 😉
-Chris Simmons,
Avid BeOS User.
The BeOSJournal.
http://www.beosjournal.org
Wired Magazine has an excellent piece on the issue of “deep linking”.
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,35306,00.html
-Chris Simmons,
Avid BeOS User.
The BeOSJournal.
http://www.beosjournal.org
You’ll have the Bill Gates Military Squad come to say “hello.”
By hello I mean “We’re going to throw you in jail or shoot you dead on the spot.”
Or maybe Eugenia will finish you off
eugenia (and others), you should read what the american library association has to say about deep linking when you consider whether or not to delete a post.
http://www.ala.org/alaorg/oif/deeplinking.html
I really wish a good success for OpenBeOS. OpenBeOS is/will be a credible choice for a desktop PC, because it is concieved for a desktop machine (one user, one single GUI). As win98 user, I never succeed to install/configure Linux correctly. But this is a well known story…
Who was it that said one journalist is worth 1000 (or more?) engineers? It might have been stalin (who i am not a fan of) but still the line says it all.
The movement to open source a Beos compatible system just got a huge win. the word is getting out and it will grow. Plus once you say “open source” then you get 1000 more journalists interested in giving you free press.
keep the ball moving. This is an awesome achievement.
Come on, guys, Eugenia is legally liable for everything that’s posted on her site, and it’s also her private property, “the management reserves the right to do whatever it wants”, including deleting anything she and only she determines to be abuse of the forum. I agree that it shouldn’t be necessary to delete mere links to potentially illegal material, but in today’s legal climage it is an unfortunate reality. And a tough call, “deep links”, where someone else is actually hosting the illegal material, may lessen, but may not entirely, eliminate her liability. As the one who’s name is on the domain, she needs to stay on the legal side of a very fuzzy line if she wants to protect her website and her career.
To return to topic, “go OpenBeOs!”. =)
Actually I am going to agree with some of the postings, The BeOS does have alot of users and fans. In fact I know BeOS users that will never give it up. If OpenBeOS is to succeed thats where it will be done, by the fans and current users of the BeOS
Not that it does much from where I read the comments (-:
Go BeOS go, now for that GeForce 4/ATI 9700 support and of course my Hoontech DSP24 (-;