“Whether they like many of Apple’s decisions or not, many Mac users remain committed to the company; Can Apple keep pushing this envelope? Over the past six months several pricing decisions by Apple Computer Inc. have tested the loyalty of its customers. Each time, indignant Mac users have lambasted the company in online forums, only to be scolded by Apple defenders.” Read the first article at SunSpot. “OS X is a stable operating system, but when things go wrong you should have the right tools to get it back to normal.” Read the second article at Bangkokpost.
Staying Faithful to Apple or… Upsetting the Apple Cart
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
“It’s part of the [Mac] personality,” Kay said. “But the alternative was Mordor, the unthinkable. So you take them with their faults.”
I think Apple has most to worry about from Linux rather than Windows. Linux runs on their hardware, and seemingly many of their users now are unix-heads who are equally comfortable with MacOS, Linux and Windows. So, when Linux catches up (and it will) – what will happen?
The first shocker was the announcement by Chief Executive Steve Jobs at the Macworld trade show in New York last July that Apple’s formerly free suite of Web services, iTools, would be renamed .Mac and, henceforth, would cost $99 a year.
You’re getting webhosting on Akamai for about $8/month, and it integrates with your operating system. I don’t know about you, but that sounds like an awesome deal to me. Can someone else point to webhosting on something with as much bandwidth as Akamai for only $8/mo?
But regardless, most of the issues raised in this article are months old. I think there are definitely more pressing issues that deserve media attention now, such as the prebinding bugs in OS X.
iPod, LCD iMac, TiBook, 12+17″ AlBook, Airport Extreme, Firewire 2, Bluetooth, Safari, iLife, Keynote…..
Even if you think that .Mac and Jag were not worth the price (which they in fact are!), the plethora of innovative products coming out of Cupertino more than make up for this.
Mac users stay loyal because they get high quality, innovative products that just work, often months before PeeCee users. Imho that’s worth paying for.
If you pay peanuts you’ll get monkies!!
L.
Welcome to Apple Island. It costs a lot to live here, but it’s a nice place. Quiet. There’s not a lot going on, so you can think different — in peace.
We used to have a lot more people living here, but many have moved away. In fact, most of the people that live on Apple Island now are fringe culture Americans. But that’s okay because they defend the Island with the same fervor that NRA members defend their rights to own assault rifles.
Here on the Island, we maintain high entry fees so that the riff-raff is kept out. We don’t want hordes of poor people to come to our Island and start building stuff that might not fit with the Official Aesthetic Policy. In fact, we’d rather just build everything ourselves. We like white and silver metallics, in that order. To remind ourselves of the need for law and order on The Island, we build a traffic light into every Official Apple Desktop Window.
I know there is concern amongst some of the residents of The Island that the ATI Radeon 9700 Pro is still not available at the Official Apple Purchasing Centre. It’s those damn Canooks. They have steadfastly refused to adapt the Official Apple Cable Minimization Interconnection Standard. It is all Canook propaganda that mixing power and video signal on the same cable is a bad design. Do not listen to their prevarications. The power harmonics on the Official Apple Advanced Display Connector soften the video signal, producing a pleasant blur around the edges of the fonts. It is the most advanced aliasing system in the world, courtesy of the Clerics of Apple Science. We have sent additional missionaries to the land of the Canooks and expect them to return soon with a copious supply of Official Apple ATI Radeon 9700 Pro Video Display Processing Units.
This is also a good time to announce an Official Change of Apple Policy.
We will no longer be supporting the children of poor and middle class Americans. The Ministers of Apple Marketshare have done a deep scrying of the trends and seen that these classes of people have no future in America. An Official Apple Executive Decision was made to abandon these ill-fated people.
By eliminating vast numbers of relatively poor students, Apple will be able to concentrate on the needs of the children of wealthy families, providing a tailored Official Apple User Experience to these fortunate children.
To establish greater rapport with the wealthy parents that sponsor their children for Official Apple Computing, we have also decided to limit the availability of games and other entertainment. Through strict border patrols, immigration checks, and other security mechanisms, we have stopped most PC games from entering Apple Island. To deal with those few PC games that have slipped through the cracks, we have invented a sophisticated means of stopping these games from doing damaged to Apple Family Members. This scheme is the Apple Artificial Speed Perception System. It makes these otherwise oversped games run at a slow rate so the children will not be harmed by the experience. We have done everything in our power to guard the Apple Family.
Furthermore we are working on a new program to reduce the number of Content and Motion Picture immigrants. We have found these people own multiple passports and have misguided loyalties. We believe that with the new Apple Island Permanent Residency Program, we will be able to create our own Apple Content on The Island without relying on immigrant labor.
The Apple Island Permanent Residency Program allows for a special one-time entry to Apple Island and precludes leaving The Island for the life of the resident. It is a special program that we have funded to improve the quality of Apple Island. We are blessed and fortunate to live the iLife here on Apple Island.
At a later date, we will announce further refinement of the Official Apple Computing Platform Limitations and Policies.
Thank you for your continued support of Apple Computer. We are proud that Apple Island still stands for family values. In this day and age of rapid change, Apple Island remains a peaceful and calm oasis. Limited Partnerships in Apple Island are still available for qualified investors. Please have your investment facilitator contact Apple Legal and Financial Services to establish the appropriate Apple Relationship.
HaHa! I like it…..has much in common with Singapore. And Steve Jobs really IS like Lee Kuan Yu! (“My way or the highway!”}
anyway, lol nice little story.
I think this article is a little bit to much, by trying to describe a fanatic community of users, its completely wrong. A very small percent of people are like this, because they are living in a dream. They think that Apple is their own compagny and they can ask everything to it. Most of time who behave like that, they just talk before to think, and Apple don’t need to consider them, because those kind of people can not help to develop Apple. They should compare with the price of Microsoft before to complain, …
About Linux, sorry you are wrong, i am developper, on darwin, Linux and other Unix systems, and i noticed that more and more Linux user are using or want to use OSX, because its a better system…And even Linux is not a danger for Apple, people who use the mac, they will use osx, there is no reason to use linux.. Linux is more an alternative in the pc market, than in the mac world.
“such as the prebinding bugs in OS X.” Be more precise, what do you want to mean?
Thanks for that 🙂
Apple maintains an X86 port of its software for a good reason. It internally suspects that judgement day is on the horizon.
And it is. At any stage if Microsoft decide that they will privatly tell Apple that PPC software development work is ‘going end of line’ the writing will be on the wall. Creating and making your own hardware and only being able to apply off the shelf chipsets and technology depending on your own resources means the apple user sometimes gets lower technology BUT always pays more for it.
Apple clearly understands that it is more and more a software company. Its virtually admitted defeat and now only tries to maintain a strong standing in the Laptop area. Its desktops still get improved but lag so badly that its over as far as that goes.
Laptops do not require bleeding edge performace, and that means a longer lifespan for Apple’s current hardware efforts. But these are clearly diminishing returns. Eventually the spec will fall to a level like the desktops where the lag is so bad it hurts apple.
With microsft controlling both the Office area and now the emulation/virtual machine (they have bought Connectix) it is clearly a matter of time before Apple are persuaded that it would be most helpful if they would move to x86.
This pressure is sensible. Why should microsoft commit heavy development over two processors when one is better. Why should apple remain on ever deminishing hardware and performance that hurts itself and its customer base.
OSX is a wonderful step for Apple. But in reality it has to be the first step. Under OSX the change to end user would not be noticable. The average user would not care if its a motorola or an Intel processor, and so long as the case and design features are something different, the only people who would resist are die hard apple fans.
If microsoft decide that Apple needs to move to X86, then that is going to be it as far as PPC goes.
The standard PC hardware is about to take a massive jump in performance. Everything from CPU, BUS, Memory is about to make one of those flatline breaking upward movements. Unless Apple wants horrific hardware design issues its hardware will be dead and buried.
Intel will be at 10 Ghz in 2005, and PCI-X with 10 gig throughput will be the mainstay. Newcards will replace PCMCIA cards.
As the chinese say, ‘may you live in interesting times’ and times are about to get very interesting for Apple and its users.
AdmV
Welcome residents and friends of Apple Island.
We at Apple are proud of our heritage. We believe in family values and traditions. We are loyal citizens, believers in what is Officially Right and Proper Behavior for Apple Island.
So we have a special announcement. To adequately convey our message that time-tested computing is what is safe and sound for our citizens, we have decide to rename the Apple Store.
It will henceforth be known as “Ye Olde Apple Shoppe”. Along with the name change, we will also be announcing a special CPU downscaling. To enhance the safety of our citizens, especially the genetics of our wealthiest Apple Limited Partners, all CPU’s will be cut in speed by 50%.
These new specially selected processors will be known as Apple SafeCycle Processors.
As part of implementing SafeCycle across the Official Apple Product Line, visitors to “Ye Olde Apple Shoppe” will find a wide assortment of old and trustworthy computing systems. Our selection will always include many machines that are at least 3 years behind the unsafe Intel computing world.
So please join me in our champagne and caviar Ye Olde Apple Shoppe Grande Renaming Evente and take a gander at some of our new SafeCycle systems. We’re especially fond of the system in the front of the shoppe, “Old Bessie”. And don’t forget the “Silver Warhorse” server, now offering a hand-engraved faceplate featuring your family crest.
On Apple Island, we live in a golden glow of heritage and family values. The safety of the Apple Citizen always comes first. Investment opportunites are available. Discretion is assured.
i don’t think apple is up against the wall just yet, remember Apple’s implementation of X11? Once its mature enough whats stopping somebody in installing CrossOver Office onto the mac and then installing the windows version of Office?
Bonus is its cheaper than VPC and you can get the benefits of the windows version of office which includes the programs that don’t come with Office X.
I’m not talking about WINE here either since that needs a copy of windows to be installed.
One thing that people who forecast the doom of Apple neglect to consider is the geek factor. In the past 5 years, Apple has made substantial inroads into the geek community by offering computers people genuinely want to use–and that kind of satisfaction spreads. I’ve been a PC user since 1991 (that’s a 286, folks) and I just bought my first Mac, an iBook. Now many fellow CS grad students & undergrads that I know mutter about how they’ve always wondered about owning a Mac, etc and many are thinking about a Mac for their next computer. When geeks see that Apple is closer to their ideal OS than Microsoft’s offerings (especially look for this when DRM becomes mainstream), I predict a ripple effect.
Why are people so eager to see Apple ditch the PPC? It admittedly cycles slower than P4/Athlon…but Intel offerings are only now getting to where the PPC was in 1996 in terms of architecture–my 700mHz G3 will toast any 1gHz P3. And as Apple turns more of the manufacturing duties over to IBM instead of Motorola, and PPC clock speeds rise, it’s only going to become more obvious that x86 is crippled by its legacy support.
Crossover office IS WINE. It’s just had more work done making office run.
WINE doesn’t need a copy of windows installed – though it can make use of it’s DLLs if its there. (Maybe you’re thinking win4lin).
Both Wine and Win4Lin are x86 only, they will not work on PPC.
I think you’re right that x86 is crippled by legacy support… that’s why I wish a lot of the legacy support could be dropped and a pseudo-x86 architecture created that was mostly binary compatible… now sure it’s not going to happen any time soon, if at all, but I can dream
Welcome to Winopolis
Here in Winopolis we feel it’s best for one company and one company alone to make the most important part of the computer – the software. We know, you’re thinking, well how will the company that makes that software have any incentive to make it any better? How will we keep a lid on the prices they charge? Don’t worry, you have CHOICE! You can buy any of several thousand different motherboards, hundreds of different graphics cards, modem cards, USB cards, firewire cards. You can pick from literally dozens of different apps that all do the same thing. And we really promise this time (wink, wink) that it will all work.
Go ahead and get it over with, say it, you know you want to.
Apple is dying.
Instead of saying that Apple as a company is dying, now the pundits are saying that the platform is dying. This ought to be good for a few more years of speculation, fabrication, and plain old bullshit with a nifty new angle.
Intel even gave up on the x86 family. The P5 is most likely the end of the line; with a little wishfull thinking they might make a P6.
IA64 is the new processor of choice for Intel. Once, it’s installed in all the servers they can make a version of the PCs.
The PPC970 will do a lot for Apple this year. At 1.8GHz and 64bits it’ll be able to keep up with the P4 and will be even faster when programs are compiled in 64 bit mode. IBM is also looking at releasing the POWER5 chips this year which is much faster the the current POWER4 which is the base for the PPC970. The POWER5 family will also include low-end versions for desktops.
The price of the PPC970 should come down quickly as IBM is going to start placing it in all their Workstations, Low-End Servers, and Blades. It’s also easy to make 4-way PPC970 boxes (Intels are only easy in 2-way boxes).
I don’t think you are right about Linux being a threat to the mac.
Apple has publicly said they think open source is great. Why? Because Linux taking off, even surpassing the mac in market share on the desktop, would be the best thing ever to happen to apple.
Here’s why. True, lots of people will never buy a mac because they will always buy the cheapest PC. Just like there are lots of Bud customers that will never buy $9 a six-pack microbrews. However, Apple is not even trying to sell these people. They would like to sell to lots of people that would be willing, but for one thing –the “compatibility” issue (such that it exists, largely it is perception, though perception matters).
Well, imagine a world were half of the desktops at work, at school, even in homes are running linux. Open formats and protocols dominate in linux. And windows would have to adopt them as well with linux having half the market. The mac can use all of those open formats. Hell, the mac with X11 can even run all those linux apps, and if linux has half the market, that means all those hordes of apps at best buy etc will run on the mac.
Also, even bigger is the perception factor – no longer will joe blows think “well, everyone uses windows, so I have to also to be compatible” Instead, there’s multiple OSs, windows, mac and linux, with each a valid choice.
Apple is not dying. On the contrary, they are doing some smart things to stay alive.
Steve is moving Apple’s offerings farther and farther upmarket. They are leaving the cost-conscious markets behind because they know they cannot successfully compete on price. It’s no secret that few people can afford to buy an Apple computer vs. a Wintel/Lintel machine.
So Steve is figuring out how the company will shrink basically. He is trying to keep a position in high-end notebooks, low-end servers, and high-end personal luxury items (the iPod). It is very unclear what to do with that aged beast, the Powermac. This summer ought to bring clarity as Apple is either going to announce a brand new PowerMac platform — the UltraMac? — or it is going to be clear that Apple has abandoned the workstation market as well.
There shouldn’t be any shame from the Apple Island citizens just because people are moving away. The computing market is big enough to support Apple Island for a long time into the future, especially if Apple takes good care of their wealthy customers.
–ms
We know this is tough, but to stay on the island you have to pay a little more. Not gobs more mind you, but some more. You see we have this wierd concepts called “R&D” and “attention to detail” where we actually try to make the computers better and easy to use.
Now before you get too mad, keep this in mind: we may be an island, but just off our happy shores is a big, big continent called Winopolis. People from Winopolis are always coming over to our little island and trying to lure away our inhabitants with cheap prices and big promises (that we think they don’t live up to). The only way we have figured out for staying an independent island is to make a better product – that’s our island’s survival strategy. So you have to contribute to that – that’s why you pay more. We hope you understand and will stay on the island. If not, best of luck and you are welcome back anytime.
ROFL Michael! A wonderful, creative post with more than a grain of salt of truth in it!! I disagree with one aspect of it, but of course all analogies and metaphors are not perfect. You didn’t say this, but you often hear and see people say, “I would like a Mac, but can’t afford it”. Now, I know there are low income people who, in fact, could afford one, so I’m not trying to make them sound like whiners. But, the fact is, I think when many people say that, what they mean is they just don’t want to pay for one – the less expensive PC’s being too tempting. I mean, you can get a low end FP iMac for not much more than a grand and an eMac for even less. Ten years ago people were paying $3000 for regular, full featured PC. And $3000 was worth more then too. So, regarding some people, I don’t buy the “I can’t afford it” line.
Yet, that brings me to something I believe you have said recently (was it you- I may be wrong?) that I so totally agree with. Apple, if it wants to attract switchers and first time buyers, needs a Mac that is truly under $1000. The FP iMac simply costs too much to be that Mac, at least if you want a decent amount of RAM, etc.
Over at Macintouch, they’ve been having an “iCheap” discussion about this. So, it seems many are thinking along the same lines. Steve is probably not in favor of this, as it is something Apple would probably lose money on. However, it could increase market share. So, the decision is Apple’s really. Do they really want to expand or do they want to play it safe and and keep those hardware margins? It’s up to them.
Great post 🙂
…”I know there are low income people who, in fact, could afford one…”
I meant to say, “could *not* afford one”.
has a Linux user I would love to buy a laptop that I could use with Linux, but there are some compatable problems with X86 laptops hardware and Linux. With a Mac laptop I can write software for Linux not not have to worry about the problems with the hardware.I know of a few Linux users that have done this or are about to do this.
If Apple wants to stay in the market they should become a software company and start to offer OS X on x86 hardware.
A lot of people will switch overnight.
Right now the cash is being made on software not hardware. Yet Apple who currently have a 30% margin on hardware is using it’s software to sell their hardware. To become a software company they need to start offering OS X and the iApps for x86.
They can stay a niche player but in the long term i doubt Apple will stay an influential company. But who knows maybe by 2010, our computer will all be pocketpc, always with us with only docking stations with all the peripherals at home, work, friend’s house. OLED should radically change the way we will use diplays.
I wish miscrosoft would cut off Apples air supply. Oh how I long to see Jobs and Co. writhing in their death throws.
I think they should start slowly yet decisively. Something akin to cutting the achiles heels and watching the subject die slowly.
*twitch*
Welcome to Microsoft Windows World. The houses are cheap but the license fees and taxes are high. But it’s not like you have much choice, I mean you do, but before we go on please agree to the 666 page End user agreement before entering. Here is our patent pending Syringe Pen so you can sign in your own blood.
Note the EUA may change ant any time without your knowledge or consent, you agreed to that on page 665 psalm 567
Thank you can now read the rest:
Windows world is a nice quiet place and our Dear Leader Uncle Bill made it that way in his own image. You can read more about Uncle Bill and how our dear leader created this world for you in the End-user Agreement Page 405 Psalm 12.
You may notice that Windows World is an unstable noisy place that is because of all the new construction. See so many people wander into this place we need to keep building. Since our buildings are not so great and keep crashing down, we constantly have to rebuild new buildings to fix the old one. Of coerce you must pay for this as per Psalm 22 page 212 of the End user License.
It is recommended that you get your Gas, electricity, sewage/garbage removal and water from the various Microsoft utility companies. We have gone great lengths to ensure that our services are compatible with your house and appliances.
You can use another water company but your Microsoft washer may not be compatible. You can use another sewage company, but your Microsoft toilet may not flush properly. You can buy new appliances, but you cannot remove the Microsoft ones, so you will have to make room for them
Also note that any change to the apartment may break your end user license, we do not have strict guidelines but you can check with the open license monastery on OLE Mountain. Note the road to that mountain is only accessible buy Microsoft licensed SUVs; Smaller more efficient vehicles may not handle the rough terrain. We made sure of that.
Note, to live in Windows world it is recommended you learn the local language and not learn any new ones. It is the only sanctioned language as per psalm 5 page 100. It is also the only language allowed on our phone system so you can communicate with other people in windows world. You can communicate outside of windows world in another language, but you must get a phone from an outside provider and we cannot guarantee that it will work as per end user agreement page 475.
Our phone and mail system is maintained by a bunch of really intelligent butterflies who will determine what email/calls you can get. We cannot provide you with a list or a procedure on how the butterflies determine what is good for you, just know that they were highly trained and are all Microsoft certified and will do their job for you with your interest in mind.
Thank you for coming to Windows World, where der furer, ugh I mean Dear Leader Uncle Bill will make your life happy, you should know, you agreed to that to under Page 666 and you also agreed not to say any more about it.
You say, “If Apple wants to stay in the market they should become a software company and start to offer OS X on x86 hardware. A lot of people will switch overnight.”
first off, why? I assume they would do so only if OS X is better than XP. OK, I’ll take that as a concession.
Second, some people just don’t get it. While OS X is great and would be a better standalone OS than XP for x86 computers, that is not the sole or even the primary reason why Apple is better. It’s because they make the hardware and the software (and the apps, and the online service), to all work together with much fewer glitches, which is one of the key apple advantages. Also, Because they make it all, they can implement new things faster. Most new things take hardware and software and if you make both, you can more easily put in place both the necessary hardware and software (in the OS, in a new app, or in the online service).
>my 700mHz G3 will toast any 1gHz P3
Yeah, right. Dream on.
http://www.desertsol.com/~kevin/athlonvppc/
“Mac people who scream that their Apples are faster than PCs are simply so full of crap, they could double as septic tanks.”
Okay, that was lame.
I’m no Windows Fanboi, but your attempt at humor pales compared to Apple island … plus. most of it isn’t true.
first off, why? I assume they would do so only if OS X is better than XP. OK, I’ll take that as a concession
Better, how ? How do you define better ?
It’s how you use the OS that is important, or the kind of software you are running. Maybe it’s the number of clicks needed to do a certain action, for some it will be the number of games available. And to answer your question, it makes sense for some people to use another OS than M$ Windows. OS X is very polished OS, at least visually.
why Apple is better. It’s because they make the hardware and the software (and the apps, and the online service), to all work together with much fewer glitches, which is one of the key apple advantages
Well I’ve used all kinds of computer and OS, from ZX 81, Apple IIe, to mainframe, Sparc Station, Macs, G4, Athlon, all version of Windows and several Unix/Linux. And I’ve found Macs to be as buggy and prone to crash as PC, both on hardware and on software.
For the hardware/software integration, you are right it will give you better performance but not that much. And since Macs now use a lot of PC technologies : PCI, AGP, DDR, IDE, … The hardware is identical so you won’t get much gain there.
I just want to say that a lot of people will use MacOS X on x86, why are you afraid ?
Not wheb their market share has increased.
Last year they had .3 of the server market, now they have 1%…not bad for adying company.
Btw the way to the person who replied to my comment about having CrossOver on the mac…why isn’t this possible, shouldn’t a recompile be in order? It is another variant of UNIX after all.
I would of thought this would be possible considering Apples effort to have x11, with that they get linuxes software for their platform.
i hate the thought of touching a windows machine after having problems with this dell and a buddies windows box(he bugs me to look at it). So amoung having OS X and running all my video soft(Final Cut, imovie), I will stay with Apple. I don’t see any need for me to run that kind of software,,if I could run FCP on a pc,,,,I don’t see a need for it. Apple’s final cut is the only solution on the market that will edit dv and high definition right from a mac.
..recover?
I always wonder.
I think there are a ton of geeks out there like me, who are waiting for Apple to switch to an IBM sourced processor. I’ve wondered if Apple could regain huge market share if they pulled this off right: get IBM chips up to speed, release blazing machines, bring prices more in parity with PC counterparts.
I’m not suggesting that they beat PC prices at the same speed, just get a whole lot closer.
How many geeks and pro-level users would leap off the fence at that point? Would consumers follow suit?
As much as I would love to run OS X, I don’t see buying any of their desktops right now. I do think their laptops are more attractive, but I’m torn, and that reticence will last a while.
First, why does everyone say Apple is dying? They’re in much better financial shape than they were before Steve Jobs took over as CEO again.
Everyone complaining about processors should take notice of the consumer level Power5 processor which will be released in 2005. Apple will certainly survive that long (after all, they survived the ’90s) at which time Apple can once again reclaim its previous title as the performance platform. Though it is unlikely PPC970, the Power4 consumer level processor, will outperform the x86 solution at the time, it should asuage all the complaints regarding performance.
With the PPC offering from IBM looking to be a better performer than the prospective offerings from Intel and AMD, I think we can say the coffin for the “Apple switching to x86” idea has been completely nailed shut.
Joe P: Intel even gave up on the x86 family. The P5 is most likely the end of the line; with a little wishfull thinking they might make a P6. IA64 is the new processor of choice for Intel. Once, it’s installed in all the servers they can make a version of the PCs.
Wrong, see: http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,6012883%5E15397…
Intel will continue to push IA32 on the desktop. Louis Burns, Intel vice president for for desktop products, said he could see no requirement for 64-bit applications on the desktop and therefore, no need for 64-bit desktop processors. (see above article)
That being said, the only people with 64-bit desktop systems will be Mac owners and x86-64 owners (unless you care about the people with Blade 150s or Indigo 2s. I own a Multia but that doesn’t really count) Without Intel’s support, the success of x86-64 from an applications perspective doesn’t look very promising. Most likely we won’t see a large number of x86-64 applications released for Windows (applications which can make use of x86-64 enhancements such as the increased number of registers)
Neuralprobe: “If Apple wants to stay in the market they should become a software company and start to offer OS X on x86 hardware. A lot of people will switch overnight.”
Okay, once again, let’s review your proposed business model for Apple:
1) Company that makes all its money on hardware sales ports its software to other hardware
2) ???
3) PROFIT!
Where is the money going to come from? OS sales? You think their profit margins on OS X are enough to justify this? They’re just covering their development costs.
Where is driver support going to come from? Driver support on OS X works very well now due to the relatively limited availability of hardware.
Microsoft’s Windows division is losing money. Microsoft is an applications company, and consequently they make all their money on Office. OS X on x86 would be one of the stupidest business moves Apple could make.
John Galt: “I wish miscrosoft would cut off Apples air supply. Oh how I long to see Jobs and Co. writhing in their death throws.”
If you’re (sexually?) aroused by the idea of watching Steve Jobs die a slow and painful death, I suggest you seek some professional help.
Apple has seen worse times than this. Don’t expect them to die any time soon.
And regardless, Microsoft essentially “donated” money to Apple (in order to secure some things like IE shipping as the default browser) At this point they have absolutely no control of the company whatsoever.
iBochs: “Mac people who scream that their Apples are faster than PCs are simply so full of crap, they could double as septic tanks.”
Pretty much. x86 has left the current PPC processors in the dust. The only company that can turn this around is IBM, as they have not only the manufacturing technology but the chip designs to make this happen. Fortunately for the Apple community, it looks like they’re going to do just that.
Neuralprobe: “I just want to say that a lot of people will use MacOS X on x86, why are you afraid ?”
Yes, but who will pay for it? I think the majority of people asking for OS X on x86 are currently free software advocates who are sick and tired of the horrible KDE/Gnome desktop experience, the slow bloatedness of XFree86, and the overall lack of applications. That being said, these people are not known for their propensity towards shelling out money for software. Even if Apple ported OS X to x86, which would be financial suicide for them, how many people would actually pay for it as opposed to just pirating it? Hell, many Apple users I know who bought 10.0/10.1 pirated Jaguar because they didn’t like the idea of having to pay for an OS upgrade so soon.
OS X on x86 will never happen, ever.
“I think there are a ton of geeks out there like me, who are waiting for Apple to switch to an IBM sourced processor. I’ve wondered if Apple could regain huge market share if they pulled this off right: get IBM chips up to speed, release blazing machines, bring prices more in parity with PC counterparts.”
Here’s what I see happening:
Apple starts shipping PPC970 systems, but keeps prices at current levels, more or less, maybe a slight increase at the release of PPC970-based systems. Complaints of the CPU performance gap with PCs go down.
One year later, Apple starts shipping systems based on the Power5, keeps prices at current levels with perhaps a slight increase. Macs are once again the “hot rods” of personal computing as they will once again be outperforming their x86 counterparts.
I don’t think Apple will make any dramatic price cuts. They will continue looking for ways to cut manufacturing costs and may decrease prices slightly, but overall I see their angle being to keep prices at current levels and offer superior hardware (things like gigabit ethernet, FireWire 800, Airport Extreme, and soon PPC970)
Can anyone post a link to anything, that isn’t from a rumor site, that talks about this? It seems like people are so desperate to get away from Motorola’s PowerPC chips, they’re really stretching.
Can anyone post a link to anything, that isn’t from a rumor site, that talks about this?
Probably not at this point. It’s entirely speculation, although it’s certainly not unreasonable speculation.
It seems like people are so desperate to get away from Motorola’s PowerPC chips, they’re really stretching.
That’s pretty much the case. Motorola’s processors suck for desktops, and they’re not in any hurry to pour money into R&D in order to close the performance gap between PCs and Macs, considering what a scant fraction of their processor sales Apple accounts for.
There is plenty of info on the web to support this, Jason. IBM speaks of the 970 being released second half of this year. Quickly moving up to the .09 process, then the next year the next gen of the processor (980 or something similar) will be released–in the same manner that the 970 is a derivative of the Power4 minus the multicores and huge cache, the successor will be based on Power5 technologies. (Calling it the consumer Power5 is misleading in the same respect that calling the 970 a consumer Power4 is inaccurate, but they are real and coming.)
Well, searching on the web gives me hits from rumors sites and others from people that speak at some depth about the architecture of the Power4 that say they’ve not heard of any plans for a consumer class version of the Power5.
“… from people that speak at some depth about the architecture of the Power4 that say they’ve not heard of any plans for a consumer class version of the Power5.”
URLs please.
Intel even gave up on the x86 family. The P5 is most likely the end of the line; with a little wishfull thinking they might make a P6.
The P5 was the regular Pentium, the P6 was the Pentium Pro/II/III at least… not sure what the Pentium 4 is, but they’re way beyond P5.
Intel is not giving up on x86. AMD sort of dragged them back in with their Athlon-64 which is a 64-bit x86 chip. Intel had wanted to abandon it, but AMD pulled a fast one on them. What would software companies rather do… continue selling software that’s already done or completely rewrite their software for a new architecture?
Now, to bring this back to the actual topic (sort of), for the same reasons Apple should stick with PPC based processors so they don’t alienate the application space they do have.
Power5
http://news.com.com/2100-1001-984808.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/28596.html
http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2003/0204ibmplots.html
http://www-916.ibm.com/press/prnews.nsf/jan/E04B02CEA65993A785256C7…
Power970
http://www-916.ibm.com/press/prnews.nsf/jan/1713CBA3CD35301085256C5…
http://www.arstechnica.com/cpu/02q2/ppc970/ppc970-1.html
http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/A1387A29AC1…
Hope those help
I think you missed my point.
My point was that a lot of Apples users now would find it very easy to use Linux (again). When Linux becomes better than OS X, the danger is that those people “switch” once again to another platform. If Linux is so great that it takes over 50% of the Windows/PC market, what makes you think it won’t do the same to the Apple market.
Now, Apple sell mostly hardware true. But Linux works better on PCs than Macs. So, if enough people did start using Linux instead of MacOS, Apple would have to work pretty hard to keep them on Apple hardware. Not to mention that it’s only a matter of time (a few years more for the desktop to mature) before a company starts selling hardware/laptops nicely integrated with Linux.
So really Apple are more vunerable in some ways than Microsoft, because their customers are a lot more mobile than they used to be. They’ll have to work very hard to keep them once Linux catches up.
Where is the money going to come from? OS sales? You think their profit margins on OS X are enough to justify this? They’re just covering their development costs.
Well if you port it on x86, your machine base will get from a 3% marketshare to a 97% marketshare. If only 5% of these people get MacOX X for x86, I guess that is enough to cover their developpment costs, even do some profit. The businees model of Apple will have to evolve. It’s OK for them to do iPod, but OS on x86 is not right!!!
Where is driver support going to come from? Driver support on OS X works very well now due to the relatively limited availability of hardware.
Exactly, and you apple zealot will bash M$ for the driver support. It’s probably the most painfull aspect of windows : driver support. They have to support thousands of differents hardware. To be honest, they made a good job at it. It could be way better, but again it could have been much worse. Give M$ some credit for what it deserves.
.Net is a real innovation from a programming point of view, M$ have always give programmer good programming tools.
If Apple want to stay a real player, start to influence the people who have real influence about computers. If you are a gamer or a programmer, you know that Apple is not a good plateform for you. And these are the people that probably influence the most the way the majority of people will buy a computer.
Most of the people use a computer because it’s cool or entertaining, they don’t even what a process or a thread is.
Considering that for the moment that most Mac users are “not” actually power users, Linux is only a resort for a small minority of Mac users out there. When Linux claims more popularity, because it will (it runs on X86 and it’s free!), Mac users will still be snug cozy with OS X because it’s heaven for desktop users compared to using Linux. Also considering the recent improvements in OS X I can’t see any reason that Desktop users would switch to Linux.
I use Linux, BSD, and OS X on my Mac, I would consider myself a power user, if you talk to the majority of Mac users out there, they can tell you how to point and click and type, and maybe show you a few key commands but they definitely have no clue how their harddrive’s are partitioned or how to bring up the boot menu to install Linux.
Most Mac users are as computer literate as the common PC user, and that’s why most people are using Linux at the moment.
I meant:
Most Mac users are as computer literate as the common PC user, and that’s why most people “AREN’T” using Linux at the moment.
Yes, if Linux became better than OS X, than Apple would have a problem. But when? Certainly at no point in the near future. Where is the linux equivalent to iMovie, iPhoto, iDVD? Or FCP? Or Emagic Logic? Or an iSync-like product which ties into a deadicated online service like .Mac? And if Linux did become better, than I would have no need for Apple anymore. So the “threat” doesn’t even matter to me.
Linux is a much greater threat to MS than Apple. Because Linux essentially duplicates windows. Hell, Lycoris looks, walks, talks like Windows. All these desktop distros seem to be aiming for windows-like function and appearance.
Linux does not duplicate OS X. Besides the missing apple apps, neither windows nor linux has anything like Quartz Extreme, for example. Also, a key part of what OS X is the following: an OS integrated with the hardware. Linux doesn’t provide that. It’s just an OS, like Windows.
Also, the biggest attraction of linux for ordinary people (those that don’t care about things like EULAs and the ability to modify their OS) is it’s cheaper even than windows. So Linux and windows are going after the same customers. Apple, by contrast, is going after premium business. Linux on the desktop is not a premium product. It’s a ripoff of windows, the cheap product.
Already, TODAY, linux is taking away business that MS once upon a time thought it would have – increased server sales taken away from the Suns and IBMs of the world. And govt’s, schools and even some companies are talking about replacing windows desktops with linux desktops.
Apple is welcoming opensource, MS isn’t. Doesn’t that tell you something?
“Well if you port it on x86, your machine base will get from a 3% marketshare to a 97% marketshare.”
Yes, and people who were considering purchasing a Mac because they want an OS X capable system would now no longer do so because they can simply run OS X on commodity hardware.
So instead of a net profit of several hundred dollars, Apple’s net profit becomes a few dollars. I don’t think that’s an effective business strategy.
“If only 5% of these people get MacOX X for x86, I guess that is enough to cover their developpment costs, even do some profit.”
You’re talking about 40 million OS X adopters, and Apple garnering five times the market share that Linux has gained in the past several years, even though Linux’s hardware compatibility is several years ahead of OS X/x86’s.
For that reason this scenario is highly unlikely. Furthermore, you’re not taking into account piracy. If Apple were to release OS X for x86, do you think the people who weren’t willing to shell out the cash for a Mac will now shell out cash for OS X, or would they just steal it?
But let’s assume for a second that what your saying does happen, and that 5% of all x86 users go out and buy OS X for x86. If that were the case, Apple would net a profit of approximately $40 million. That is roughly equal to Apple’s current quarterly profits, at the cost of damaging their hardware sales, which they’re dependant on for their livelyhood. That isn’t smart business.
“Exactly, and you apple zealot will bash M$ for the driver support.”
I did? Care to say when? Windows supports more hardware than any other operating system out there, and the majority of the time the drivers are much more mature than any alternative operating system’s offerings.
“It’s probably the most painfull aspect of windows : driver support. They have to support thousands of differents hardware. To be honest, they made a good job at it. It could be way better, but again it could have been much worse. Give M$ some credit for what it deserves.”
I certainly do, Windows XP has excellent driver support out of the box.
My point was that were Apple to port OS X to commodity hardware, they would need to support the vast array of PC hardware as well. They would need to write a substantial number of drivers for IDE controllers, video chipsets, sound chipsets, etc. This would represent a considerable development cost on Apple’s part, one which wouldn’t be covered by their profits on OS X sales, whatever they may be. This is a challenge that Apple would be unable to contend with.
Furthermore, where’s the application support for x86? Will companies who have developed x86 applications release x86 builds? Look at the programs that the business market would care about, things like MS Word, Excel, PowerPoint. These are currently available on OS X, but do you think Microsoft would ever release builds for OS X/x86?
If Apple want to stay a real player, start to influence the people who have real influence about computers. If you are a gamer or a programmer, you know that Apple is not a good plateform for you.
Come again? OS X is a wonderful development platform. The NeXTSTEP APIs are some of the best out there for GUI development, not to mention the wonderful interface builder applications, as well as their debugging tools.
Apple’s future is looking very bright with the forthcoming release of PPC970. They’re currently in good shape, and there’s nothing on the horizon that looks like it will change that for the worse. I see no reason why Apple shouldn’t continue doing what they’re doing… releasing more applications software to draw people to the Mac platform, and diversifying their product line with offerings like the 12″ PowerBook G4.
MS made its mint by taking or buying more or less noninnovative tech from other people, and being more aggressive, smart and ruthless in conquering the market, using such tactics as predatory pricing. They did not win with superior tech.
The great irony is the linux is the same thing – not particularly innovative in 90 % of what they are doing (just duplicating existing proprietary stuff), but then giving it away for an even lower price. It really is amazing to watch.
From a quick search on Gooogle, I found this link discussing the Power4 and Power5:
http://www.simdtech.org/apps/group_public/email/altivec/msg04692.ht…
I’d wait for some definitive information from IBM. A consumer version of the Power5 only makes sense, and some arbitrary post to a mailing list is no more credible a source than all the rumour sites.
Obviously there isn’t any information on a consumer Power5 at this time because the chip’s current target is servers, just like the Power4. Unless sales of the PPC970 are dismal, IBM will most likely make a successor, and it’s pretty safe to assume it will be based off the Power5 design.
They are both hugely expensive CPUs in themselves and in the supporting hardware they need to run.
Personally, coming from a computer engineering background, I love the designs. Very, very elegant. Them and the Alpha. Mmmmm…
Anyway.
On the server platforms/very high-end workstations maybe, and Power CPUs kick A$$ MHz for MHz.
If you go to http://www.spec.org though, you’ll see that the lead they enjoy over high-end Athlons or P4s is either nonexistent or small.
If you factor the cost in, Apple WILL have to use the low-cost variants. The 970 in bunches of 4 and a well-designed memory system will do the trick quite nicely. It will be still more expensive than wintel boxes, but it will be fast.
D
I’ll make this quick, I want to go watch a film I rented (the bourne identity
Lack of apple-style applications: in brief, so what? The majority of people are content consumers, not content creators. I’ve never even met anybody with a digital camcorder. I guess if you buy a Mac you’re more likely to have one, but that doesn’t change the statistics for the rest of the world. The only one people are bothering to write an equivalent for is iTunes (xmms is getting rather old). Even then, RB isn’t hugely similar to iTunes except they both have large gui windows (oh, and iTunes works, but hey, it’s early days).
FCP, eLogic – what, are you supporting Apple buying up programs and making them Mac only? That’s reminiscent of Redmond, I hope you don’t actually condone such behaviour. Regardless, there are equivalents for such apps on Windows, and they can be run via Wine. Having every app in the world be ported or duplicated on Linux is impossible, which is OK, because we don’t need them to be ported or duped, we can just run them in Wine.
Copying Windows – some do, some don’t. The default GNOME desktop for instance is pretty much unique. It has elements from Windows and MacOS (and others), but there are other elements that are uniquely GNOME. Once you get over the fact that they both have start buttons, there are plenty of differences between KDE and Windows even (though the similarities are more obvious). Anyway, some distros choose to copy Windows because some people actually like that GUI, it’s what they’re used to. You know, the whole “getting things done” meme.
Quartz Extreme – very bad example to choose. Neither Windows nor Linux have performance problems severe enough to warrant such a drastic action. I expect they’ll arrive eventually, but for the moment it’s not a priority because quite simply Macs are slow (so offloading stuff from the cpu to the gpu makes sense) and PCs are not, so it’s not really at the top of the TODO list yet.
As for “Linux is cheap”, that’s a pretty old line you know. You can make very expensive, high quality versions of Linux (like Xandros are doing), or you can do cheap’n’cheerful, like Lindows. Then the majority probably use something in the middle, like Redhat. The fact that Linux is cheaper than other stuff is more to do with the way it’s developed – it doesn’t “target” the low end, it so just so happens it’s currently popular there. It targets everything.
Finally, Apple is “welcoming” open source because they don’t have the resources to build their own OS. That’s it. They don’t share the philosophy of free software (as redhat does for instance), this is easily shown in debate. There’s a difference between using free software, and supporting it. If Microsoft threw out Trident and replaced it with KHTML tomorrow, so what? They’d still control 90% of the web browser market.
Anyway, regardless of what we say here, Linux grows exponentially, whereas Apple does not (even with it borrowing from the efforts of linux developers). It’s an equation with only one solution – Linux will sooner or later be better than everything else, MacOS included. At that point, Apple are SOL (assuming they survive that long).
Apple will NOT use the Power4 or Power5. They are both hugely expensive CPUs in themselves and in the supporting hardware they need to run.
No one is saying they’re going to use the Power4 or Power5. Since the “consumer Power5” only exists as a rumour, there’s no convenient way to refer to it. People mentioning this mean, of course, “The Power5-derived successor to PPC970”
If you go to http://www.spec.org though, you’ll see that the lead they enjoy over high-end Athlons or P4s is either nonexistent or small.
I don’t know what “they” is referring to here… I suppose the Power4 alone, since obviously there won’t be SPEC numbers for the Power5 yet. All anyone is going on here are IBM’s claims that the Power5 architecture is a fourfold performance improvement over the Power4. The most recent results for IBM are 4th quarter 2002:
http://www.spec.org/cpu2000/results/res2002q4/
Pulling IBM’s best numbers off of there, the IBM eServer pSeries 650 Model 6M2 (1450 MHz), we see integer performance of 909 (935 max) and floating point performance of 1221 (1295 max) for a single processor.
Looking at the same values on the x86 side of things, the 3.06GHz Pentium 4, which I believe is regarded as the fastest x86 offering, has integer performance of 1099 (1107 max) and floating point performance of 1077 (1091 max).
So, if you believe what IBM is saying about the performance of the Power5 compared to the Power4, you can estimate its integer performance figures at around 3600, and its floating point at around 4800. That would put it well beyond anything x86 has to offer (which one would expect from the cost)
How a Power5-derived PPC970 successor will perform in comparison to the x86 offerings of the time most certainly remains to be seen. However, looking at Intel’s roadmap, this Power5-derived PPC970 successor CPU will probably be going up against Prescott, and given these figures, I’d say this chip has a very good chance of being a performance leader for desktop computing.
Bascule, from the recent stories regarding the Power5, IBM is actually saying that it can go into desktops.
Dimitris, I don’t think any of us have said the Power4 or 5 are going into Macs–we are talking about the derivatives. As I’ve already mentioned above, IBM will be producing a Power5 with less cache so that it can be affordable for desktop workstations. But we ARE talking about the Power-derivatives. The 970 is based on the Power4 but drops the large cache, is single core, and adds Altivec and some other technologies. It is built for low-end servers and desktops.
Jason, maybe none of the links are very definite, but this goes way beyond rumor. IBM is definitely creating derivatives to move the Power series to low-end servers and desktops. Note all of the 970 announcements say such things as “first in a new line of processors.” I’ve been following this stuff for a while so I don’t care to hunt down the right articles but somewhere you should find at least one that mentions the next processor in the line will be released next year using Power5 tech.
We know IBM will be releasing machines this Fall with 970s. We know they are using AltiVec. We know this is the first in a family of processors. We know the Power5 is going to have some consumer derivative.
Is it maybe a little bit speculative? Sure, but these chips are real. The writing on the wall is very clear at this point. And I’d be willing to wager a substantial wad of cash on the reality of it.
“I’ve never even met anybody with a digital camcorder.”
So because you aren’t creative, the applications which are most driving consumer software sales aren’t media-related? Sorry, but people are leaving you behind whether or not they are Mac Zealot/Artist types. These content creation/editing programs are going to drive consumer computer usage in the next five years. Sorry.
“Regardless, there are equivalents for such apps on Windows…”
Umm, no. FCP doesn’t have a comparison–Premiere competes but only through different features. There are numerous music apps, but the best versions are available on the Mac. Studios are never going to run production software through emulation–the reason they use Macs is because of low latency, excellent plugins, great design. Running Wine on a cheap box is not anoption for music studios–and they have no reason to be cheap like you.
“Once you get over the fact that they both have start buttons, there are plenty of differences between KDE and Windows even (though the similarities are more obvious).” So what you–rather than argue about cloning Windows, I’ll point out the better criticism–you are still stuck using a windowing environment on top of the OS. You can use many different windowing environments. Apps will be inconsistent depending on what environment they were built for. Most computer users do not want this–they want consistency, and they do not want to feel like their is a layer between the app and the OS. The nature of windowing environments is always going to keep linux a step or two behind Mac OS and Windows.
“it doesn’t “target” the low end, it so just so happens it’s currently popular there. It targets everything.” Your suggesting running apps through Wine, and at the smae time suggest they can’t compete in highend markets? Uh, huh.
“Finally, Apple is “welcoming” open source because they don’t have the resources to build their own OS.”
Baloney. Nothing further is required for a rebuttal, you are just being ignorant.
“They don’t share the philosophy of free software.”
So what–msot of the OS community doesn’t support free software either. They do support open source software though. I don’t think you could legitimately say Linux can compete in proprietary high end apps, and participate in a discussion about Apple surviving as a PROFITABLE BUSINESS, and then insist that they support FREE software.
“Anyway, regardless of what we say here, Linux grows exponentially, whereas Apple does not (even with it borrowing from the efforts of linux developers). It’s an equation with only one solution – Linux will sooner or later be better than everything else, MacOS included.”
That’s retarded. Apple can develop their own technology and include EVERYTHING that OS develops, but it can never catch up to Linux? Jesus! At least you’ve got me laughing. Don’t you even understand your own ideology, brother–that EVERYONE reaps the benefit.
Whatever, your just an ignorant hater.
MS’s own recent financial statements (or SEC filings, I forget which) specifically identify open source as a threat to its bottom line. Apple’s don’t.
As far as Linux eventually overtaking and being better than everything, sure that could happen. But since Apple is better than windows by a large margin, this can only happen after Linux becomes better than windows. And it will be cheaper than windows. Thus, the threat to MS is more immediate at a minimum.
“Linux will sooner or later be better than everything else, MacOS included”
Fortunately for Apple, I’m certain that’s going to happen much, much later rather than sooner.
IME most Mac users value their favourite OS for it’s consistent, well designed GUI and ease of use. Just because the CLI and *nix complexity exists in Mac OS X, it doesn’t mean that Mac users would find it easy to switch to Linux. Mac OS X may be based on *nix, but as Apple have done their job quite well, I doubt many normal users will ever encounter it. That’s hardly unique, I used NeXTSTEP quite a lot without ever having to learn anything about the underlying OS. I imagine there are plenty of SGI using graphics designers who have never touched the CLI, while I doubt there are any Linux users who manage to avoid it.
Obviously Linux is improving, but there’s a hell of a long way to go before it’s as easy to use as Windows, let alone Apple. There are some serious ease of use problems in Linux that I can’t see being fixed any time soon. For example, how will Linux ever have a consistent GUI when there are multiple DEs? While Linux still has such painfully rough edges and lacks the professional polish of Mac OS, Apple will still have a niche.
Mike Hearn:
Another thing is that windows took over the mac in terms of market share in part because it was “good enough” for most people, who preferred a lower price and more hardware choice than offered by Apple. This is a simple fact.
So to appeal to many/most current windows users, Linux does not even have to be “better” than windows. Many/most windows users either don’t care to have the “best” or cannot even begin to evaluate that. That’s fine, maybe they are into gardening or radio controlled airplanes or whatever.
But mac users have made a choice for apple, because they think it’s better (it is obviously in terms of user friendliness and ease of use). So mac users care alot, and they want the best and think the mac is the best. This is way, way different that how many/most windows users (note I am not saying ALL windows users) approach personal computer selection.
Who want to make a bet that 97 percent of the people picking up those lindows PCs at walmart would have bought a windows PC otherwise? This seems very obvious, Mike.
As the writer of the second article mentioned here, I fail to see its relevance to the question of keeping the faith with Apple: a question that needs to be aired IMO.
The “Apple Cart” article, au contraire, was on a question of maintenance, following a self-induced problem: I screwed up (not Apple) and fixed it with some pretty good software by a third-party developer.
Sigh.
The full/original article is now also on http://www.inet.co.th/cyberclub/gkrogers/post/warrior/warrior.html and reflects a slightly localised viewpoint.
Ya know, if there’s one thing you gotta learn about Apple folks… it’s that they
THINK DIFFERENT
Anyway, regardless of what we say here, Linux grows exponentially, whereas Apple does not (even with it borrowing from the efforts of linux developers). It’s an equation with only one solution – Linux will sooner or later be better than everything else, MacOS included. At that point, Apple are SOL (assuming they survive that long).
Faulty logic. That’s like saying that because women athletes are improving MUCH faster than men that eventually the women will run faster and lift more than men.
Are you familiar with the log function? Sure, Linux might be growing fast now in features and usage. But remember, it started near zero not too long ago.
Not faulty at all. It’d be faulty if I had based the assertion that Linux grows exponentially on its previous performance, but I’m not, I’m basing it on the different development model it uses.
appleforever: “MS’s own recent financial statements (or SEC filings, I forget which) specifically identify open source as a threat to its bottom line. Apple’s don’t. ”
SEC Filings don’t have to name stuff that may be a threat in a few years possibly. Open source was in Microsofts filings because it’s hurting them now in the server space. You can’t draw any conclusions about the desktop from that.
“There are some serious ease of use problems in Linux that I can’t see being fixed any time soon. For example, how will Linux ever have a consistent GUI when there are multiple DEs?”
That’s not an ease of use problem. Have you tried Redhat 8? KDE and GNOME apps look pretty similar. Nope, it’s not a perfect match, toolbar icons for instance look a bit different. That’s solved in 8.1. Slight widget inconsitancies are lined up for 8.2 – what set of APIs a program is targetted for doesn’t have to be related to how it appears to the user.
Finally, it should be noted that Windows and MacOS X have consistancy problems as well. It’s well known that MS Office has its own widget toolkit for instance. Apples own apps are getting more and more inconsistant, inventing their own widgets and styles all over the place.
Anyway, I didn’t say it’d happen tomorrow, or next week. I said it’d happen. Who knows when? Not me, but I do know it’s inevitable.
Apple will be moving to X86.
Wether they choose to associate with one manufacturer (amd/opteron) or go with a software build that is generic on x86 is only one issue.
IBM will not iron out the PPC970 in time and it does not have the performance required long term. It will initially be produced at a level that is again below offerings in the x86 area.
So, there you go. You heard it first here.
AdmV
> I think Apple has most to worry about from Linux rather than Windows
i think linux should worry about Apple. OS X is what linux has been saying it would be for 4 years. and still isn’t. why wait? get a real OS now. i have a current mandrake as well as the RC1 for 9.1 and i just don’t use them. why? cause my Mac does everything they are going to be able to do in 3-5 years. but then MS will never get there, so……
—
Mac OS X, cause making unix user friendly was easier than debugging windows.
The 970 went into full scale production this month. It’s widely believed Apple had prototypes a year ago. IBM has said they will release servers using the 970 this fall. What is there to iron out?
And this is at the 13 process, soon to move to 09. And they are rapidly developing a strategy to move highend Power4 and 5 technology into desktop class processors. Who needs to produce at the same volumes Intel does? The PPC is doing fine (despite Moto) and I would bet that the 970 and related processors surpass the numbers of Itanium processors… I would say having a dual 32/64-bit system on desktops 5-10 years before 64 bit computing becomes relevent to desktop Wintel users gives IBM/Apple a substantial leg up.
> Finally, Apple is “welcoming” open source because they don’t have the resources to build their own OS. That’s it. They don’t share the philosophy of free software (as redhat does for instance), this is easily shown in debate.
interesting that they have given all their work with KHTML back to the KDE team then. not to mention the work they have given back to Xfree86. the scum.
“That’s not an ease of use problem. Have you tried Redhat 8? KDE and GNOME apps look pretty similar. Nope, it’s not a perfect match, toolbar icons for instance look a bit different. That’s solved in 8.1. Slight widget inconsitancies are lined up for 8.2 – what set of APIs a program is targetted for doesn’t have to be related to how it appears to the user.”
Apps looking quite similar and having similar widgets is very different from having a consistent UI. File dialogs, cut/copy/paste, drag and drop and many other features are still very inconsistent between KDE and GNOME apps. Add in other apps that aren’t designed for either DE and it’s even more of a UI mess. Sorry, but this is a very big ease of use problem in Linux.
“Finally, it should be noted that Windows and MacOS X have consistancy problems as well. It’s well known that MS Office has its own widget toolkit for instance. Apples own apps are getting more and more inconsistant, inventing their own widgets and styles all over the place.”
It’s true that they aren’t perfect but at least the UI design basics are quite consistent, unlike in Linux. I agree that since the QuickTime 4 GUI Apple don’t have a great track record for consistence, but it’s hard to imagine what they could do to screw it up as much as Linux.
“Apple will be moving to X86.”
No, they won’t. Apple can’t even think about switching ISAs until they have the majority of their existing userbase converted to OS X.
“Wether they choose to associate with one manufacturer (amd/opteron) or go with a software build that is generic on x86 is only one issue.”
It’s completely 100% out of the question that Apple would ever release a build of OS X that runs on commodity PC hardware.
“IBM will not iron out the PPC970 in time”
Iron out? It’s being manufactured… now.
“and it does not have the performance required long term.”
Which is why a Power5 derived successor will be released in a few years. See my previous post on the matter about where this will put a Power5-derived PPC970 successor in 2005, but it’s more or less looking to be twice as powerful as Prescott given the current trends.
“It will initially be produced at a level that is again below offerings in the x86 area.”
Yes, keyword initially. No one is expecting IBM to go from zero to desktop performance leader in a period of a few months.
“So, there you go. You heard it first here.”
Heard what first here? You certainly aren’t the first moron to say Apple should switch to x86. And furthemore, you sort of flamebaited with that but never followed up…