Home > SkyOS > Three New Screenshots of SkyOS 3.9.6c Three New Screenshots of SkyOS 3.9.6c Eugenia Loli 2003-03-14 SkyOS 49 Comments Robert Szeleney posted three new shots of SkyOS 3.9.6c. Impressive to see this hobby operating system getting so many new features and run impressively well, while it remains just a 1-2 man project. About The Author Eugenia Loli Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker. Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 49 Comments 2003-03-14 9:17 pm This is looking great for something that is just a hobby/knowledge-acquisition and nothing more. 😉 2003-03-14 9:22 pm It sure is damn but ugly. 2003-03-14 9:27 pm PLEASE do not start the SAME old trolling we get on *every* hobby OS news reporting. Looks are NOT important for these HOBBY OSes. Knowledge acquisition and fun for their authors is. They are NOT meant to become alternative OSes to ANYTHING. Any other comment about how these OSes are looking like, they will be modded down. We get the idea, please get yours too. Try to say something productive. 2003-03-14 9:43 pm I’m curious about SkyOS, but I’m having trouble finding out what I’d like to know (and yes, I tooled around their web site). Is it a *NIX? What’s its purpose (ie: BeOS is supposed to be geared towards mulitmedia; what is SkyOS geared toward?) What are its strengths and weaknesses? A few helpful lines would be appreciated! Thanks. 2003-03-14 9:46 pm It seems to be a general desktop OS, with no real single aim except whatever they happen upon wanting. Looks cool, think I’ll download it… 2003-03-14 9:51 pm As Eugenia stated above…this is just a hooby. I am very impressed!! It is very complete just to be a hobby. My hat goes off to Robert Szeleney. Very good job!! 2003-03-14 10:44 pm I don’t know how one could call this Ugly. It looks a heck of a lot better then most I have ever seen. Heck looks better then many KDE screen shots I have seen. 2003-03-14 10:46 pm It’d be nice to have more stories about research operating systems. SkyOS looks nice, but at least interface wise, it’s an exact clone of Windows. If that’s what the authors like, then cool. Still, wouldn’t it be nice to have some stories about people trying out new things? For instance, TUNES, object-oriented operating systems and so on. People pushing the boundaries. 2003-03-14 10:51 pm >Any other comment about how these OSes are looking like, they >will be modded down. We get the idea, please get yours too. >Try to say something productive. Is it not very important for the developers to get feedback, what else is the purpose of the post, on the “hobby” OS? If people find its interface (gui) ugly or unproductive then the developer should know this. Its usefull to get feedback, whatever the feedback is..you must have the time to value it before you can moderate articles. I personnaly find it strange the moderator of this website can moderate things down and set the rules without thinking/discussing about/with the developers of the OS in question. Freedom of speech is a beautifull thing, but can cause some side-effects on public forums. Miss.E. please stop moderating articles i like to read all feedback without someone who thinks his/her opinion is of more value and/or knowledge. The beauty is that we all think differentky about things and that is good..it brings the best out of us. SkyOS. Beautifull project, i really admire people that have these skills and patiences. I did some coding for a hobby OS (with REAL kernel and found out i was not skilled enough for it, and prob. will never become, so nice job SkyOS! The interface(gui) is in early development stage (at least the gimick part:)) but the tab functions are easy to use, and productive. My intest is more pointed torwards Kernel and VM. I am downloading it now, i really cannot wait to install it… Djaz 2003-03-14 11:01 pm >Is it not very important for the developers to get feedback YES, it is. But not when the SAME and SAME old are trolled over and over again on EVERY skyOS or TriangleOS article we have. Then, it is NOT feedback, is is trolling. And it is getting really tiring. Robert *knows* about this anyway, he reads OSNews daily. 2003-03-14 11:09 pm Where does this guy find time? I would like to know more about the programmer. It’s amazing how far one guy has come. Does he have a family, fulltime job, etc? Any secrets he would like to share on time management? How many hours does he put in to his OS per day, weekends, etc..? 2003-03-14 11:12 pm I have seen no trolling in the moderated article. It was funny and productive let me try to explain. >>ready for the desktop This paricular reader found SkyOS either stupid and made a joke about it (that for sure is no trolling but REAL feedback) or the reader did find SkyOS really ready for the desktop, as in, it is starting to get somewhere.. I know i do not set the rules/limits here but by this way the forum is loosing its credibility. I know some people are only poating because the want to make somebody feel pissed or bad but YOU always can ignore them. Anyway OSnews is all about the OS and its applications so i will continue my survey. I am know unzipping the zip Djaz 2003-03-14 11:16 pm Amazing is it not Ryan.. I know when i was busy with my OS it took about 40 hours per week..and my OS was certainly not desktop ready.. far from that! I also would like to know how much time you put in it, Roger. Furthermore is it a micro kernel? or a monolithical kernel? Does it support USB?..i know read the website i am lazy..i know. Djaz 2003-03-14 11:19 pm Read here then and its moderated down comment (and that is one of the 5-6 more such attempts): http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=2992 As you can see, this was not an attempt to be funny. The first time is funny. The 10th time is NOT funny anymore. You might be new here, but we get certain trolling from people which is the same over and over again. 2003-03-14 11:19 pm Ugly doesn’t help the developer. Try explaning what you don’t like. 1) The “Page Tabs” are square with the top left corner folded down; I prefer something a little more rounded. 2) The tree displays (in the register and somewhere else) don’t have lines to help you identify level. This will make working with large multi-page expanded sections very hard to keep streight. 3) The screens look verfy flat. Some work should be done to make the buttons and tools look a little more 3D. 4) If the system supports shortcut keys for menu and form navigation, then there should be some indication of what the keys are. Windows lets you navigate using the ALT+(the underlined letter); something along these lines would be useful (I hate the mouse and use it as little as posiable). As a developer myself, these kind of comments are useful for improving the software. Just describing something as being broken or ugly is useless. How do you fix ugly? The answer plastic surgery; but, the first thing the surgeon is going to ask is what don’t you like and how would you like to look. Programers need the same information: what don’t you like and how would you like it to work. 2003-03-14 11:20 pm BTW, most of all this is offtopic, if any of you have a problem email me or IM me directly, don’t post here off-topic comments about our policies or why our background color is green and not blue. 2003-03-14 11:32 pm >BTW, most of all this is offtopic, if any of you have a >problem email me or IM me directly, don’t post here off-topic >comments about our policies or why our background color is >green and not blue. That said, is it possible to set a backround in SkyOS? or is it themeable? Djaz 2003-03-15 12:06 am the background is OBVIOUSLY changable, as the second picture posted on the linked page shows. its strange that the “3d” beveled buttons such as activate/close/ok/cancel seem to have the top coded as lighter colored, and the other 3 sides as darker, while the standard “intuitive” method is top and left lighter, bottom and right darker. that slight change in code should make a drastic difference. thats part of the SLIGHTLY isometric angle that is also applied to the mouse pointer’s angle, and frames around windows, etc. i’m curious if that top only style was intentional. very impressive work.. i’m curious where they go with it. 2003-03-15 12:15 am I don’t think you understand trolling. Giving constructive feedback, even if it’s “so-and-so makes it ugly” is viable feedback. Just saying something is ugly, though, is trolling–it helps no one, including the developer. 2003-03-15 12:22 am I must say, I’m with Mike Hearn on this one. First, let us acknowledge the obvious – it is an amazing achievement for 1-2 people to get so far and do such a good job. Bravo. But so what? Does it add anything to exploration of OSes? I mean, it is fine to give due credit to the creators, but to me, it is like the movie “Jackass”… one guy snorted spicy wasabi up his nose – no doubt an amazing achievement, most of us couldn’t do it, but SO WHAT??? This doesn’t push the envelope in any way that I can see. Or is it like Samuel Johnson said: “If you see a dog walking on his hind legs, it’s not so much that he does it well, as that as he does it at all.” Again, I repeat: this is not to disrespect the authors. I look at a lot of Oses, and try quite a few. I just don’t see the value here – if I’m missing something, I’m ready to listen with a humble attitude. 2003-03-15 12:36 am So what?!!? You can say that about anything. The Egyptians built the pyramids. So what? Today, we can built pyramids 20 times faster with lights, elevators, and a casino inside. They could only bury dead people in theirs. So what? Maybe the OS isn’t revolutionary. Maybe it would be nice to hear about revolutionary ideas in OS’s. But don’t say “so what.” That’s meaningless and insulting. And by saying you mean no disrespect, only makes you look like a jerk. 2003-03-15 12:42 am It’d be nice to have more stories about research operating systems. SkyOS looks nice, but at least interface wise, it’s an exact clone of Windows. If that’s what the authors like, then cool. Still, wouldn’t it be nice to have some stories about people trying out new things? It may be just a clone of Windows, and I may never try it, but it’s incredible what one or two people can do in their spare time. It looks like it has gone farther than even AtheOS did, which was itself an incredible one-man project. For instance, TUNES, object-oriented operating systems and so on. People pushing the boundaries. Tunes isn’t going anywhere. They have no code. I’d rather see something that really exists. 2003-03-15 12:43 am it still beats the hell out of OS/2, Windows 3.1/NT3.x(9x+/NT4+ would be debatable), and probably MacOS prior to 8.x. X11 has been relatively ugly until recently, so you could probably throw a dart and hit an uglier WM. just imagine, this OS has reimplemented a full GUI, not too many have actually accomplished that, so cut the thing a break. 2003-03-15 12:47 am you’re missing the point. The Egyptian pyramids were an achievement IN THEIR TIME. But it would be silly to build skyscrapers TODAY using Egyptian techniques from 3000 years ago. This OS is NOT an achievement in THIS time, though if it was done 3000 years ago, I grant you, it would be an amazing achievement. See? One cannot deny that judgements of utility, usefulness and achievement exist and are VALID. Some are great, and some add nothing. All I’m saying is that I don’t see what this one does for the collective good – does it teach us anything? And I asked – if I am wrong, and I’m missing something, I’d be extremely grateful if all the great things about this OS were pointed out to me. Really, no need to attack me, what I’m saying is with a fully humble attitude – calling me a jerk doesn’t make you look good, but good luck to you anyhow, I wish you the best, and it would be fabulous if you could address the substantive issues as opposed to namecalling, just my very humble and friendly suggestion. 2003-03-15 12:50 am stopdabombing, you are wrong. IT IS an achievement because it was created by a single person. Kernel, gui, apps, everything. If that OS was created by 200 people it wouldn’t be anything ground breaking indeed. But having such functionality, on all levels, by a SINGLE person pretty much, this is a HUGE achievement. You obviously have no idea how complex and how time consuming an OS is. 2003-03-15 12:57 am it still beats the hell out of OS/2, Windows 3.1/NT3.x(9x+/NT4+ would be debatable), and probably MacOS prior to 8.x. All those examples you mentioned have, apart from being bloody old, proper font alignment and spacing everywhere. Oh, and as for people who think that classic MacOS is ugly, these are probably the same people who call Villa Savoy ugly. 2003-03-15 1:00 am I was afraid exactly of this misunderstanding – which is why I tried so hard to be clear in my post. Sigh. I pointed out as strongly as I could THAT I FULLY UNDERSTAND AND GIVE CREDIT: First, let us acknowledge the obvious – it is an amazing achievement for 1-2 people to get so far and do such a good job. I guess I should have italicized it, bolded it, underlined it, maybe put some flashing script thingie around it – but I thought that it was CLEAR ENOUGH. YES I do fully understand how amazing that is. But in that case it is EXACTLY why the Samuel Johsnon quote is relevant: “If you see a dog walking on his hind legs, it’s not so much that he does it well, as that as he does it at all.” meaning, WOW A DOG CAN WALK ON TWO LEGS (wow, one man can do all that “IT IS an achievement because it was created by a single person. Kernel, gui, apps, everything”), BUT IT IS IRRELEVANT to the result It would be amazing if I alone built an airplane out of wood with my own two hands, but in a world of Boeings, I say: Bravo for the effort, but what are we getting out of this???? That’s all – I’m saying, amazing achievement for one person, but SO WHAT??? 2003-03-15 1:05 am I wish Robert would properly number each release in the code for the OS. I just downloaded 3.9.6b, but it claims to only be 3.9.6a, both in the boot screen and in the debugging info 🙂 Adam 2003-03-15 1:08 am So what? Nothing! Linux 2.6 will be released in July. So What? MacOSX 10.3 will be released at the end of the year. So what? Microsoft is still No1. So what? Nothing! But it is still OS news and we report on it and we discuss on it. Your “so what?” comment should have been published on a site that has nothing to do with OSes but was reporting on SkyOS. But we do report on such things over here, so your comment is *unacceptable* no matter how I see it. Sorry. >but what are we getting out of this???? Nothing except some geek time spending playing with it! The author DOES get though. He gets fun and he gets knowledge. I think your comments have no logical substance, I find that you do not *understand* the whole concept of hobby OS and I am very dissapointed by this because I RUN these stories. If you don’t like them, go elsewhere, where they don’t report on such things. The OSNews goal as stated on contact.php on this site says: “Our goal is to inform you about the latest news on a vast range of operating systems, from the well-known mainstream OSes, down to small hobby or embedded ones.” If YOU are not interested, go reply on other stories and not this kind of stories. This whole deal is getting on my nerves SERIOUSLY and I am ->that<- close modding you down for pure trolling (even if you don’t think so that it is trolling, I DO). 2003-03-15 1:09 am The Egyptian pyramids were an achievement IN THEIR TIME. But it would be silly to build skyscrapers TODAY using Egyptian techniques from 3000 years ago. This OS is NOT an achievement in THIS time, though if it was done 3000 years ago, I grant you, it would be an amazing achievement. See? You have to start somewhere. Even today, the knowledge how to build a pyramid is not available to everyone. Isolate a group of people and tell them tu build you a wooden house like it was built 500 years ago – they wouldn’t know how and and start with more basic things. See? Even now, it’s a bad comparision. Programming is a way of thinking in my book. Once you understood the basic principles, it’s about combining them to produce something more complex. Then, it’s about experience. Experience comes over time. Looks to me like the guy behind SkyOS is quickly accumulating a lot of experience with his project. Great stuff. Rock on. 2003-03-15 1:12 am Again, I repeat: this is not to disrespect the authors. I look at a lot of Oses, and try quite a few. I just don’t see the value here – if I’m missing something, I’m ready to listen with a humble attitude. I think what your missing is that this OS isn’t really FOR people to use. It is a learning project. Sure, he adds stuff that other hobbyists who play with the OS want, but there are no illusions of grandeur here. I for one find the project interesting. I honestly don’t care in the slightest if the GUI isn’t perfect. Obviously this guy has no professional GUI designers working for him. He is making everything himself and that is what makes it great. I also can’t understand the cruelness of people making fun of him. I would compare it to someone taking a pottery class and they make a pot that doesn’t look as good as one you could go buy at pottery barn, so you make fun of them and call it ugly. That is rude. This person works hard to make something for the sake of making it. THAT IS ART! You don’t judge art on its usefulness. You judge it on it’s technical merits and on how it makes you feel. SkyOS is inspiring and technically difficult project for 1-2 two people to work on. The fact that it has gotten so far is a testament to the ability of those who have contributed. Keep up the good work. 2003-03-15 1:16 am PLEASE do not start the SAME old trolling we get on *every* hobby OS news reporting. Looks are NOT important for these HOBBY OSes. When a work is made public it’s bound to generate a range of comments, of varying degrees of information richness, for various reasons. Where a developer doesn’t post feedback guidelines it’s ugly to jump down the throat of someone who doesn’t make the ‘perfect post.’ Visually its style and consistency leaves something to be desired. Given this, ‘ugly’ is an appropriate term even if it is a little brutal, as its technical usage means the subject is lacking balance or symmetry. Picking up on the point about it looking too much like Windows, this adds unfavourably to what is already a confusing picture. 2003-03-15 1:23 am Charles, you don’t understand. SkyOS is ugly for me too. And I told Robert about this and sent him some mockups for quick fixes. The point of my comment was to not talk about the SAME things all the time. It is really not right and is VERY tiring to troll about how ugly SkyOS is, EVERYTIME we run a story about SkyOS. *This* is what is unacceptable: duplication. *NOT* the fact that SkyOS is ugly. All someone has to do is go and read the other stories of skyos if he/she wants to read such comments. But not YET another time the same old story about uglyness! Find something else to talk about: its SDK, its API, its kernel scheduler. Read what I wrote earlier: Robert KNOWS about the GUI issues. He doesn’t need to be reminded again. He doesn’t care about it as much as working in the under the hood underpinings of his OS. He is an engineer, not a graphics artist. He doesn’t care to learn more about art. He cares to learn more about OpenGL, kernel hacking and all that stuff. 2003-03-15 1:26 am Don’t forget that SkyOS is a learning project for Robert. A hobby and a trip into knowledge. SkyOS is not an OS to replace YOUR operating system. It will probably never be. So trolling about the SAME things over and over and over again, it is just not productive and changes NOTHING. It just becomes tiring as hell. 2003-03-15 1:35 am Honestly, I wasn’t trolling. And I do understand the point of this site – I think that’s great (I love this site). I never, anywhere in these posts questioned the right to put up this story! I never said – “this is a bad story” “it shouldn’t be here” “I don’t like the story” or anything like it. Look, you put up a story – FANTASTIC. Now, I _react_ to the story – what’s wrong with that? Look, if you have a magazine about, say, car engines, and I react to one of the stories by saying “this engine doesn’t seem to give us anything”, I’m talking about the engine, not about the appropriatness of publishing the story. And I thought I was very polite – I tried hard to give credit to the creator, many, many, many times. So I’m really not sure what I’ve done wrong. If you mod me, of course, I’ll accept it – it is your site and you have a 100% right to do anything you like at all. I’m just trying to understand. I said “so what”, because I was asking, and I asked explicitly – what does this OS do that we haven’t seen before? I thought I was missing something, because to me it did absolutely nothing that I haven’t seen. Is it wrong for me to ask? I didn’t mean anything disrespectful – I tried to do it humbly and politely. As to linux and the other examples: yes, the new kernel will do something quite new and solves some interesting problems for a *nix platform – I’m following it quite closely. Now I hear the answer to my question about the purpose of this OS is: this is a great learning experience for the author of the OS. OK – now I understand what the point is. I didn’t realize that was the purpose. I apologize. I thought it was something about the OS itself – and I was wrong, it is not about the OS, it is about the learning experience. Now I realize that my question was stupid, because I asked about the OS, and the point was NOT the OS, but the author’s learning experience! I’m dumb! OK, now I know – and thank you for telling me. Hey, Eugenia, not all of us can be smart – so I’m one of the “not smart” ones, please be generous to those with smaller IQ (like me). Just because I’m not very smart doesn’t mean I don’t mean well. 2003-03-15 2:52 am The old mac interface was the best one available at the time. The Villa Savoye is still ugly. I also notice that nobody lives in it. 2003-03-15 3:08 am I used to really like Eugenia’s stories, but lateley she simply cries Troll at anything not that doesn’t sound like compliments. This week has been a stellar example of her calling people names (Troll) simply because they offered an opposing view. A normal user would have been modded down or banned for actions like her’s. She’s moderating without moderation. Is there anyone to moderate her? Mutiny 2003-03-15 3:19 am It’s pretty clear from your posts that you did not intend to be offensive. Unfortunately, your post came across that way. The words “so what” are innately offensive. Just think about something you accomplished in life. Maybe you got a degree. Maybe you won an academy award. There can always be someone who says, “so what.” How would you take that? Most people would be offended. By saying that you do not mean disrespect doesn’t alter that either. It just rubs salt into the proverbial wound. I apologize on my behalf for the misunderstanding as well. We’re getting off topic anyway. Go SkyOS! BTW, I didn’t call you a jerk. I said “by saying you mean no disrespect, only makes you LOOK like a jerk.” And it does, even if you aren’t. Believe me. I look like a jerk a lot, even though I try not to be. 2003-03-15 4:36 am Impressive – the fonts look wonderful. That’s one of the main reasons why I shy away from linux – nothing I did with all of the distributions I tried could make my display look that nice. 2003-03-15 11:58 am like it and some of the ideas behind it… So I am looking forward to the day where its GUI get polished and the Kernel gets more stable… Because this will be the day where this OS will really start to fly on some more devs and os-addicted people pcs And image some really useful programs could be ported or created… it will show how good the architecture and implementation is… Because I thing that it should be a very good or consistent design, since 1 Person did the whole job.. -A PS:I like beeing informed about its progress. So keep on posting news about it here 😉 2003-03-15 12:33 pm Charles, you don’t understand. SkyOS is ugly for me too. And I told Robert about this and sent him some mockups for quick fixes. The point of my comment was to not talk about the SAME things all the time. It is really not right and is VERY tiring to troll about how ugly SkyOS is, EVERYTIME we run a story about SkyOS. *This* is what is unacceptable: duplication. *NOT* the fact that SkyOS is ugly In some respects forums and moderation might be called a Human Interface System. When thought of in those terms the picture presented, either through an article or forum posts, invites a specific range of response. It’s an area that’s poorly studied and often left to chance, especially among projects with an amateur approach. Identifying flaws and designing them away is the sigh of the true professional. In the case of OS News I’d suggest a change to the forum where irrelevant and insignificant comments are replaced with a sober auto-generated moderator notice and a link to the original post. In the case of Sky OS I’d suggest some space on their site be dedicated to the visual side of the project, where critical comments might be better addressed. Both would act as a mechanism to move debate and discussion forward. The article should’ve been better written as it was the ideal opportunity to direct discussion in a way that shifted focus from the visual to the functional. 2003-03-15 2:27 pm Hey, just to put this up here. I once made a “troll” comment here on this forum, and I appologized to Eugenia. As I should. People shouting “freedom of speech” in forums should notice one basic thing. When one finds oneself in the public rooms of society, one has freedom of speech. When one finds oneself in a forum on a website which is not maintained by ones government or by the people of a national institute, one is not in a public room where the national laws applies. One finds oneself in a forum which should best be regarded as somebody else’s house. In somebody’s house, you just don’t go around shouting freedom of speech, as in somebody’s house, the people who own the house decides which rules apply. If you do not get this, then please leave and start a thread in a government hosted and owned site. 2003-03-15 4:38 pm Oh, well. Still can’t get it to work. 2003-03-15 6:20 pm I’m really amazed at the amount of work that went into the development of this OS…and all by one guy? Amazing. I bet the OS is pretty coherent too…I am going to try to get a copy and see what I can do with it…nice 386 optimized code…pretty cool and talented. You guys are completely missing the point arguing about the GUI!?! Your joking right? Dano. 2003-03-15 8:13 pm I dont really like skyos that much, (It’s not for me, It shouldn’t be anyways. I still really like what he is doing though) But WOW, this is an amazing achievement, OpenGL support, a GUI, kernel, api. this guy is amazing…I wish I knew this much about making an OS. Congrats! 2003-03-15 9:10 pm SkyOS is definitely a great achievement for a hobby OS, but it seems like OSNews focuses on it too much. Is the future of computing in an OS made by one person, where contributions aren’t generally allowed, or in an open source development model? I can understand the author wanting a learning experience, but so much of SkyOS turns out looking like a shoddy reimplementation of Windows 98. I’m not in the business of telling people what to do with their life, but it looks like if he put even some of these efforts toward helping or starting open source projects, he could end up with a single OS subsystem that excels above the rest, rather than a complete OS that ends up feeling mediocre. I have been working on PicoGUI for almost 3 years now. It’s mostly been a one-man project, but with an open source development model so anyone can freely contribute. I feel much more rewarded having built an architecture that I know is unique and has advantages over every other system, than if I had just tried to copy something else. –Micah 2003-03-15 9:40 pm It’s not a matter of creating something unique. He’s been coding SkyOS from scratch, and for some reason has chosen to make a Windows clone with a flat directory structure. If he had chosen not to create a new OS, but only a component in an existing one, he would probably have chosen to make a Windows clone subsystem in any case, just as you would probably have chosen to make something new and revolutionary like PicoGUI even if you had chosen to make it a PicoOS of its own. 2003-03-17 3:47 am Actually, Villa Savoy is a rather nice little town. No Drive-In, though. 2003-03-17 4:06 am Your comment, but it looks like if he put even some of these efforts toward helping or starting open source projects assumes that he does not work on any open source projects. Remember what people say about assume? Your statement having built an architecture that I know is unique and has advantages over every other system is a matter of opinion (yours) and only serves to inflate your ego at the expense of another. I do so hope you feel important.