A red flag for Jobs & Co: Apple’s sales are falling as the overall PC market worldwide showed growth last quarter. IDC’s figures of 34.6 million PCs sold last quarter, which would indicate that Apple accounted for 2.05 percent of PC shipments worldwide. Read the article at MacDailyNews.
Apple Market Share Falling while Worldwide PC Market Grows
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
so as long as apple does not beging to lose users they will be ok.
According to IDC’s numbers, Apple’s marketshare for the fourth quarter was 3.0 percent, rising year-over-year from 2.9 percent in 2001. Apple reported shipments of about 385,000 units for the quarter, behind fourth place IBM’s 649,000.
http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/01/17/idc/
http://www.idc.com
Hmm, conflicting sources report conflicting numbers. I haven’t been able to find a direct link to the IDC report, but Lord Baldrick’s (of Ars Technica) graphs that can be found at http://www.pegasus3d.com/mac_sales.html show a rise from 1.93% (Q4 2002) to 2.05% (Q1 2003). Different numbers, but both sources seem to show a slight rise.
The article also notes that the PC market is showing growth again. While one might wish for a larger share of the market, even 2.05% of a 34.6 million is still a lot of computers.
What percentage of the market they own is less relevant than whether they ship enough units to remain profitable.
Under other circumstances, Apple’s market share would be alarming. However, Apple is going in a different direction than they have been all these years. Jobs wants Apple to be America’s Sony. And all the moves Apple has been making recently continue to make that clear.
So, in some ways – and more as time goes on – it is not the old paradigm of desktop supremacy. Sony makes great computers, desktops and PDA’s (VAIO), but they have no market share. But, they are very profitable.
So, I think it’s foolish and a waste of time to argue about market share and cries of “Apple is dead”. What’s dead is the old paradigm.
“What percentage of the market they own is less relevant than whether they ship enough units to remain profitable.”
Very true. In addition, Apple (unlike so many PC-centered companies) has a lot of possible flexibility: they could drop the hardware if they wished and become a multiplatform software company; they can continue in their niche, even developing more pro-level products; they can diversify (as might be the case); etc. I’m not worried about Apple.
>>Apple reported shipments of about 385,000 units for the quarter, behind fourth place IBM’s 649,000<<
Apple doesn’t compete against individual x86 manufacturers. Rather, Apple competes against the entire x86/windows standard.
Suppose there were more small x86 manufacturers, and fewer large x86 manufacturers. But the ratio of x86 PCs to Apple PCs stayed the same. In that case, Apple might be the largest PC manufacturer, but it would be losing marketshare just the same.
Sony makes great computers, desktops and PDA’s (VAIO), but they have no market share. But, they are very profitable.
Umm yeah the day that Apple starts making Tape Decks, Recievers, Satellite Recievers, TVs, VCRs, DVDs, Home Stereo Speakers, Stand-Alone DVD Players (Not Computer DVD Players), Car Recievers, Car Audio Amplifiers, Cell Phones (Ericcson), Car Speakers, Alarm Clocks, Portable Tape Players, Portable CD Players, Camcorders, Video Game Consoles, and other things…
That will be when they become the Sony of the USA. So Don’t even try to compare Apple to Sony.
Well Apple and Sony are both computer manufacturers, so why not compare ? And if you refer to this news.com article, Jay is not that wrong :
http://rss.com.com/2100-1040-958889.html
…why not compare?
Because Sony ISN’T a PC Manufacturer.
Sony is a Consumer Electronics Manufacturer, who happens to make PCs.
Apple only makes computer related stuff.
That’s why NOT.
Glad to see the usual level of maturity in stuff like this.
Anyway, the number that matters more: $14 million. Apple was once again profitable last quarter.
Sony has been around a hell of a lot longer than Apple.
Sony is a hell of a lot bigger than Apple.
Sony doesn’t make nearly as many stupid business plans.
Sony doesn’t have Fanbots who are brainwashed running around preaching how great they are without backing up thier dumbass comments with no facts.
Sony DOES “Think Different” and ventures into new markets without totally bombing it.
It’s no secret that Apple sells mainly to wealthy individuals and organizations. As long as Apple has high prices, they will never gain substantive market share. This is all simple physics and has been rehashed to death.
However, Apple could do better amongst the richies if they didn’t have such a cultish, elite, arrogant attitude about everything. Apple probably turns off 99 out of 100 potential richie buyers with their insulting and narrow-minded advertising and corporate messages.
Having started out with an Apple computer I do hope that one day Apple returns to their roots and offers an entry level machine with plenty of slots and flexibility. Today Apple offers dead-end machines for everything except their hideously expensive (for the performance) PowerMac.
I suppose this Summer will tell as we’ll see if the 64-bit PPC970 Mac is real or just another wisp of vapor and hype from the Apple reality distortion field.
Before Apple can gain significant marketshare they are going to have to overcome price and performance barriers. Longtime Mac users are used to the higher price of a Mac and price is not a major concern for them, most are not exactly financially destitue.
To attract traditional PC users that are accustomed to seeing systems costing less than $1000 Apple will need to address this market. They will never win over the home pc-builder that builds and installs their OS.
As far as Apple emulating Sony, I think a lot of people misunderstand this when SJ mentioned it. Its been taken way out of context. What Steve Jobs meant was that Apple’s goal was to be a premium brand i.e. not interested in being the cheapest. Apple is probably looking to diversify what it does beyond just making computers. Apple is not equivalent to Gateway. They have branched out into prosumer and high end audio and video software, MP3 players just to start.
I don’t think that they want to introduce additional products unless it is in some way focused on the digital hub concept that they are shooting for. At one time Apple had PDAs on the market but it didn’t integrate well with the desktop OS, the same can be said for their digital cameras.
Eugenia,
How about moderating down and banning BG and his lover Billy G? They don’t even know anything about computers much less Macs and only seem to post on Mac articles, why is this? Maybe their parents can curb their computer use or ground them.
Here’s what I see as being wrong. Sony is not a premium brand. They are an entry level electronics manufacturer. Don’t get me wrong, I like Sonys stuff a lot, and own plenty of stuff from them. But they are not high end or premium.
Apple is trying to pull off this image that they are super high end stuff, when in fact thier computers are no better than an equivalently priced Gateway.
IMO by comparing Apple to Sony, you are lowering the Elite Super Supreme image that Apple is trying to pull off.
I have been wanting to buy a mac for some time now, ever since
OS X came out. I even got an approval on my apple loan. However, I will wait until the processer has been switched to IBM and gets up to speed.
How many others are just like me?
@David
I think their are a lot of people out their waiting for the next big things from Apple. We’ll find out next week at WWDC if Apple is going to go with the PowerPC970.
Their is significant buzz in the rumor mills but they have been wrong before. For Apple to transition to another processor architecture would be a disaster given the fact that Quark for the PowerPC will be released soon. For Apple to go with the PowerPC970 would be an eduacted guess and would make the most sense.
They in fact do not make much money at all on their pcs or electronics goods. They let no name brands use their factories, and make most of their money on their entertainment industries. Stop using sony as an example because even they arent making a profit where apple is.
This also means buying offbrands is same quality as sony (only high chance of buying a dud), because they often use the same exact parts.
This also means buying offbrands is same quality as sony (only high chance of buying a dud), because they often use the same exact parts.
—————
sure, whatever Evan. Links please. I want to see something from Sony the exact same as something from a no-name brand made in the same factory. Please provide a link to a consumer electronics product rebadged in such a way. CD Player, DVD, whatever. Show me one.
And also explain why there’s a high chance of buying a dud if it’s made in the same factory.
Even if it’s just a smaller piece of a bigger pie, people will eventually figure out that they’re among .3% of computer users, and some will fall off. Not that it’s even near coming to that, or that people would switch from a nice Mac to a standard PC.
Waiting for the processors in PowerMacs to improve before I purchase a new one.
Sorry STEVE JOBS, but I know many who are doing the same.
Get rid of Motorola and get those IBM chips onto a HyperTransport motherboard and I will buy two of them.
One other thing, get the audio improved on the new machines or else get Creative Labs on board to design the chipset.
Before anyone says ‘go buy a new pc, its cheaper’.
Well let me tell you purchasing all new software is not ‘cheaper’ so that is out of the question. it is cheaper to buy a new machine. And yes I do have a PC, it used mainly to play certain games and nothing else.
“The article also notes that the PC market is showing growth again. While one might wish for a larger share of the market, even 2.05% of a 34.6 million is still a lot of computers.”
How can anyone claim to know the total sales of PCs world wide? Who knows how many are assembled by small local shops? How many are made in China?
I doubt if these figures are accurate to closer than +- 30%.
Apple OTOH will know exactly how many they sold. That doesn’t mean the figure they publish is the same.
“One other thing, get the audio improved on the new machines or else get Creative Labs on board to design the chipset.”
That company does not have a reputation for good quality sound.
why does it matter about Quark? Quark programmed to the OS for the most part so it would only need a recompile, and mabye a few months of switching the asm over. until then they can sell the new one to the people running osX 10.2.
I agree with David. I am a PC user and I do play games ones in a while but mostly do graphic work etc. I would switch no problem and buy a brand new G4, but I’ll wait until Apple anounces major processor changes change.
I bought an Imac Indigo 350 – OS 9 last night. I never played around with one. I had no problem getting on the net
setting up my email and a scanner. I loved it.
I’m not saying I hate Microsoft or Windows XP. I do like it, but I think it is time to change.
I did not say that Apple is Sony, but that it is Stave Job’s goal to make Apple like an American Sony. Obviously, it would take alot of doing to become as big and diverse as Sony, but you have to start somewhere.
Apple has updated all iLife apps, updated all their Pro apps, is coming out with a new iPod and is starting a music service (and *may* buy Universal). That is the direction of Apple.
— “I think their are a lot of people out their waiting for the next big things from Apple. We’ll find out next week at WWDC if Apple is going to go with the PowerPC970.”
Ive got bad news for you then: WWDC was postponed till June 23rd. Some suspect however that it was due to Apple wanting to make a special announcment, so this could be only further confirmation of a 970… we’ll see.
— “Apple has updated all iLife apps, updated all their Pro apps, is coming out with a new iPod and is starting a music service (and *may* buy Universal). That is the direction of Apple.”
And its important to note that there are alot of rumors about “digital lifestyle” devices, like settop boxes for TVs and other things that connect to each other to make the Mac the center of your “digital lifestyle”. They are just rumors though, and in this case not even well established ones, but you never know.
– Just to bring down the level of conversation…
From BillyG – Sony has been around a hell of a lot longer than Apple. Sony is a hell of a lot bigger than Apple.
-Yes
Sony doesn’t make nearly as many stupid business plans.
– Yeah, back this up. Betamax anyone? They recover quitely from many of their mistakes, but they’ve screwed many things up.
Sony doesn’t have Fanbots who are brainwashed running around preaching how great they are without backing up thier dumbass comments with no facts.
– Like you? This is not quite true. There are PS2 fanboys. Home theater fanboys. Audio equipement fanboys. I say that there are more fanboys for Sony than Apple.
Sony DOES “Think Different” and ventures into new markets without totally bombing it
BTW are you a Sony fanboy?
watch as apple’s tiny market share shrinks more and more. especially bad is people who are split between new macos x and old macos.
why would anyone buy mac when pc is so much cheaper? do you know what you can get in a pc nowadays? a 2GHz Dell w 18″ LCD for $550. that is lot of computer for 1/3 the cost of a mac alone!!! and it comes with 18″ lcd monitor. the only apple system that comes close to that is a 17″ imac, which has smaller display but cost $1800! what the hell! did i mention this mac comes with 1ghz processor when dell gives u 2ghz? so you’re paying over THREE TIMES the cost of the dell and the dell gives you a twice as fast computer! apple ppl say that mac gives you better experience, but is it really worth it? apparently the world market says no, and that is why apple is losing market share.
in terms of price performance, the apple is SIX TIMES AS EXPENSIVE as the dell. did i mention dell also gives u bigger lcd? plus dell is fully upgradable, how do u upgrade apple imac hmm? you don’t, you throw it away and get a new one in a few years, that’s what. great idea apple, create a several thousand dollars computer that u have to throw away when it gets old.
furthermore that dell will run winxp and will be able to do things like playback divx video and windows media video. how do u play back windows media video, which is quickly becoming the new video standard, on mac? u don’t, that’s how.
that is not to mention all the great winxp software out there like quickbooks and other financial programs not avaliable on mac.
why anyone would pay over 3 times the price of a PC for slower mac is beyond me.
apple zealot often use car analogy. they compare pc to something crappy like slug bug and compare apple to fast bmw. this is complete joke.
okay, u looking for good car. what do u want:
fast, fast, fast!
doesn’t break down
good handling
nice interior
which of these fits that description better, pc or mac? pc is definitely fast. dell does not break down much. if u look at it from os perspective, winxp is much more stable than os x. handling could be responsiveness and jerkyness. macs are very unresponsive computer, and scrolling is jerky. they just don’t handle well, and the os interface is clunky. interior could be os looks, and i say luna has aqua beat. luna looks beautiful, and os x looks like it’s made of cheap plastic.
so i would say that pc is actually luxury car, and the mac is the slug bug.
apple fanboy just have themselves convinced it’s the other way around to justify their purchase of a $2000 piece of crap.
What the fuck?
Sony fanboy… Yeah okay…
Anyways, I did say Sony doesn’t make AS MANY mistakes as Apple. I did NOT say that they make no mistakes. And I still believe that Apple makes more poor business decisions.
I am not saying that Sony is all great. Nowhere did I say that. In fact, I even claimed that Sony was NOT a high-end, or premier company.
Besides this whole thing. Why the hell are you guys comparing Apple to Sony? You can’t do that. It just doesn’t work. They are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT COMPANIES. The only things that they share are:
1. Audio. They make things that make sounds.
2. IDE. They both use IDE Drives in thier computer products.
3. Memory. They both use the same or similar types of memory in thier computers.
And why are these things similar? Because they are STANDARDS! Thank god Apple even decided to join in these few standards. God forbid they conform to the ATX standard, or open up thier platform.
And people who you may call “Sony Fanboys” aren’t obsessed with the company. They don’t read Sony magazine. They don’t sit around and worship thier CEO.
And since you want to know just how NOT SIMILAR these two companies are, I’ll give you a link from your fanbot Apple websites that has the CEO of Sony saying they DONT COMPETE (meaning they aren’t similar) and saying that Steve Jobs is an asshole. Now, I’m not slamming you Apple users out there who think that he’s a god, I’m just saying something about the CEO of a company, so PLEASE don’t take it personally.
http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/03/11/sony/
That is all…
” …why not compare?
Because Sony ISN’T a PC Manufacturer.
Sony is a Cons…why not compare?
Because Sony ISN’T a PC Manufacturer.
Sony is a Consumer Electronics Manufacturer, who happens to make PCs.
Apple only makes computer related stuff.
That’s why NOT.umer Electronics Manufacturer, who happens to make PCs.
Apple only makes computer related stuff.
That’s why NOT. ”
I think you will see that change, I think Apple will enter other consumer markets, which would not hurt Apple, yet it will not drive up the sales of the Macs. One of the few things that I like about Apple is its designs, I may think the software and type of hardware are crap, but I do like the designs, I have a couple of Mac cases I have gutted and put in PC boards and parts and I do like the Pro Keyboard and Mouse and both work fine under Linux. Elegance is Apples forte, and they do make very elegant looking parts and accessories. While the iPod did not make me jump up and say WOW, it is by far the best MP3 player on the market today, and it doesnt hurt that it is Available for Windows PCs and there are some programs that make it work for Linux. If Jobs & Co. play their cards right and test the water in other consumer markets, there is no other place for Apple but up.
did it take a phd to come up with that analysis rowel?
i just thought it should be known that there are techs like me , who focus on x86, using windows, linux and freebsd that do work on the occassional mac.
though i don’t own one, i do have a certain amount of appreciation for them. OS X/fink/opendarwin is of moderate interest.
anyway…i ramble. what it comes down to is that rowel’s (and others like him) opinion is not worth dried spit.
it’s like jumping up and proclaiming “water is wet” and then patting yourself on the back for being a mental giant.
yawn.
if you don’t like macs don’t buy them. if you don’t like mac fanboys, don’t read the articles and posts.
you’ve made it pretty clear (in a juvenille, ignorant a-hole kind of way) that you don’t like macs or apple.
that’s wonderful.
it’s just a computer. get over it.
i empathize.
when i see a posting about SGI, i don’t want to read pc fanboys posting about how their overclocked system is faster and cheaper.
an article about SUN…ditto.
an article about apple. the same.
i WANT to read insightful posts on topic. that means you have familiarity with said topic.
if you post about mac or apple…you better impress me with your mac skills.
aix? same thing.
solaris…ditto.
if not.
shut the fuck up.
rowel and others like him are the number one reason osnews degenerates into a far less interesting site. a mod system is desperately needed. so fanboys (of all kinds unix,mac,windows) can be modded into oblivion.
despite eugenia’s hardwork (thank’s eugenia).
“It’s no secret that Apple sells mainly to wealthy individuals and organizations. As long as Apple has high prices, they will never gain substantive market share. This is all simple physics and has been rehashed to death.”
I’ve always been surprised by this statement… or at least I have been throughout the past 2-3 years… due to the fact that Apple’s hardware has traditionally been less expensive than comperable PCs. The problem that most analysts make when comparing the two is that they typically compare a stripped PC to a high-end Mac, or forget to add features to the PC that the Mac also has which typically causes the desktop PC to cost more… (assuming we’re talking about machines from name brand manufacturers.
If anyone had a beef with Apple’s prices, it should be preficied by the fact that they don’t compete in the low margin segments as much as the PC sector does but for the computers that Apple DOES sell, they’re typically comparitively priced although most often times, slightly less expensive.
“One other thing, get the audio improved on the new machines or else get Creative Labs on board to design the chipset.”
That company does not have a reputation for good quality sound.”
Are you kidding, Apple’s audio is top notch… Both hardware and software
“why would anyone buy mac when pc is so much cheaper?”
Because a Mac is less expensive while a PC is… well, so much cheaper
“Do you know what you can get in a pc nowadays? a 2GHz Dell w 18″ LCD for $550.”
What? No built in 802.11G wireless networking? No rendezvous support, a smaller hard drive, no firwire… et etc etc
On Wednesday Apple posted a quarterly profit of $14 million on sales of $1.475 billion
mmm, $14 Mil on $1475 Mil sales makes a profit margin
of less then 1% not much ROI…
but at least better than the stockmarket…
” “Do you know what you can get in a pc nowadays? a 2GHz Dell w 18″ LCD for $550.”
What? No built in 802.11G wireless networking? No rendezvous support, a smaller hard drive, no firwire… et etc etc ”
To some people they are not interested in those technologies, nor do they need them. I run my business and my personal machines without any of Apples extras and I do fine. Wireless works fine under a PC and lets face it, How many home users are going to need extremely huge harddrives, My mom does fine with her old 10 gig, my Laptop runs fine with 3 gigs and my main computer does fine with 30 gig. Only place I use 140 gig and above drives is at work and even then its really not necessary, my server still has 120 gigs left and thats after a year of use. Only thing I need firewire for is my iPod and I have a PCI card for that. People that do massive film and sound editing may need all those bells and whistles, but unless you are in the creative industry or a major digital enthusiasts they just arent neccesary.
What? No built in 802.11G wireless networking? No rendezvous support, a smaller hard drive, no firwire… et etc etc
802.11G? Easily purchased. Guess what? Cos its not BUILT IN, one can even CHANGE what brand they use, upgrade for a better card, etc. OH HAPPY DAY…
rendezvous?? Who cares? Show me why that matters/and/or/is a standard. Unless I wanna play Network with Macfantards, rendezvous, matters not-eth.
Smaller HD? Maybe.. Yet again, upgradeable. Do you guys have 2 channels of IDE yet? LMAO. Wont even tell you what my Motherboard has…. HAHAHAHA
Maybe you’re talking about US prices. Forget about it in Europe. Macs are more expensive.
The biggest problem is choice. @Apple, you have to take the high end. It’s a good thing that we now can buy the HDs at discounters instead of paying the high price tag that Apple asks for them. Sure they make money from hardware and rich people don’t care. Those want to buy a package tied to a salesman that they can bug at every problem.
The laptops are great though, mainly because the machine are not so overpriced compared to the PC market. This market has good margins for both sides, so that could keep Apple afloat for a while. The problem is, again, that there is not much choice here either. take the 12″,15″ or 17″. That’s it =(
Hold on… lemme spend $15 and buy the Firewire card. Lemme spend $100 and get the WiFi card. Lemme download ZeroConf (rendezvous support) for free on my linux box. And lemme go out and buy an extra 200GB hard drive for $250. All that for a Grand Total of:
550
15
100
250
$915. Still cheaper than the Mac.
<<why would anyone buy mac when pc is so much cheaper? do you know what you can get in a pc nowadays? a 2GHz Dell w 18″ LCD for $550. that is lot of computer for 1/3 the cost of a mac alone!!! and it comes with 18″ lcd monitor. the only apple system that comes close to that is a 17″ imac, which has smaller display but cost $1800! what the hell! did i mention this mac comes with 1ghz processor when dell gives u 2ghz? so you’re paying over THREE TIMES the cost of the dell and the dell gives you a twice as fast computer! apple ppl say that mac gives you better experience, but is it really worth it? apparently the world market says no, and that is why apple is losing market share.>>
From Dell.com the computer which you are speaking about does not come with an 18″ LCD for $550. To get that 18″ LCD you have to add $450(18.1 in 1800FP Dell Ultrasharp™ Digital Flat Panel Display [add $450 or $14/month1]) That comes to $1000, not $550. That is also a celeron CPU, which contains far less cache than P4 or *real* G4. The Celeron only has 128k of L2. The G4 iMac has 256k L2, the PowerMacs have 256k L2; 2048k L3. The P4 has 512k L2.
Also compare MHz is not the best way to compare two completely different chips. Lets say you could have a 2ghz chip and a 1ghz chip, if the 2ghz does 2 tasks per cycle and the 1ghz does 10. The 1ghz should be faster than the 2ghz. I’m not saying at the moment Macs are faster than PC’s; a 3ghz P4 with HT on is certianly faster than the top of the line G4 PowerMac. It will be interesting if the PPC970 changes that.
<<in terms of price performance, the apple is SIX TIMES AS EXPENSIVE as the dell. did i mention dell also gives u bigger lcd?>>
No, it doesn’t. Read above.
<< plus dell is fully upgradable, how do u upgrade apple imac hmm? you don’t, you throw it away and get a new one in a few years, that’s what.>>
No the dell, that you speak of, has intergrated graphics and sound, just like the iMac. Thus it is not fully upgradable. Also, by upgrading the Dell you most likely break your warrenty.
<<great idea apple, create a several thousand dollars computer that u have to throw away when it gets old.>>
People buy Apple computers because they like the design, OS, and the software that comes with the computer. And who says you have to trhow a computer away when it gets old? I am sure many people here find uses for old computers when they get a new one.
<<furthermore that dell will run winxp and will be able to do things like playback divx video and windows media video. how do u play back windows media video, which is quickly becoming the new video standard, on mac? u don’t, that’s how.>>
Divx for Mac: http://www.divx.com/divx/mac/
MS Media for Mac: http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/mediaplayer/mediaplayer_defau…
Wow, both exist for Mac OS X!
<<that is not to mention all the great winxp software out there like quickbooks and other financial programs not avaliable on mac.>> http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/704…
Oh look, QuickBooks for OS X does exist…
<<why anyone would pay over 3 times the price of a PC for slower mac is beyond me.>>
Okay basicly everything you stated here was pulled out of your rear end. People who like Macs use/buy Macs. Simple as that. If I like a certain car, I am going to buy that car and use it. I don’t care if faster cars out there exist, I will buy something that go the speed I need it to.
FYI I am a Linux user using an AMD box and I do not own any Apple hardware at the moment. Maybe in the future.
From Dell.com the computer which you are speaking about does not come with an 18″ LCD for $550. To get that 18″ LCD you have to add $450(18.1 in 1800FP Dell Ultrasharp? Digital Flat Panel Display [add $450 or $14/month1]) That comes to $1000, not $550.
I believe rowel is refering to the most recent Dell deal on slickdeals.net:
Go to Dell Small Business: http://www.dell.com/us/en/bsd/default.htm?DGVCode=BF
Click on the “Amazing Desktop” priced at $499 in the center of their page.
Click on “Customize it” under the Dimension 2350 column.
Select one of the Free Palm Zire, Lexmark Printer or Largan digicam options.
Select the upgrade to 18″ LCD for $120.
Continue to add to cart.
Apply coupon code 764023331CD6 for another 10% off.
Final price is $619 – 10% ($62) = $557 + tax + $6 shipping.
Obviously this is a 2GHz Celeron system with 128MB of (PC2700?) RAM and a 30GB hard drive. The video chipset is integrated “Intel Extreme 3D” and the system provides no AGP slot. The optical drive is a 48X CD-ROM.
The $1800 iMac he compares it to is a 1GHz G4. It comes with 256MB of PC2700 RAM and a 64MB GeForce4 MX video chipset. Its hard drive is 80GB instead of 30GB, and it also comes with a SuperDrive DVD recorder instead of a 48X CD-ROM.
It’s not really fair to compare these two systems as obviously the iMac is a much higher end system. Furthermore, rowel is posting an extremely limited-time offer on the Dell, whereas the $1800 is the standard price for the iMac. Finally, had rowel a clue he would’ve posted one of the more recent Pentium 4 2.53GHz systems that have been on slickdeals.net and compared that to a PowerMac, as at least those systems will be on par in terms of performance and features.
How much do they lose last quarter. couple hundred million I think I read. course no PC head asks if they will be gone.
I only brought up the Apple/Sony business to try and be factual. On many occasions Steve Jobs has said Sony is the company he admires the most. Once, at Apple Japan, he told the crowd something like, “We love Sony, we want to be like Sony” or words to that effect. And, his actions over the past six years and what’s on tap right now, show he is trying to move Apple in that direction.
There are some exceptions, like the Xserve. Of course, I’m sure he wants to do some special things with Unix.
So, why argue about prices of PC’s? Everyone knows there are inexpensive PC’s. I have a couple myself. It’s the most obvious thing in the world. What I’m saying is that you have to look at what these companies are doing and what their goals are. If you do that, then these constant comparisons really make no sense.
I’m really surprised people are even still buying Apple products right now. Not to bash their product or anything, but how long have they been maming it known they were switching processor suppliers? You think people would research a little and hold off buying until computers with the 970 started reaching the market.
What I’m saying is that you have to look at what these companies are doing and what their goals are.
Those companies goals are exactly the same as Apples.. To make a profit for the company, and the shareholders.
To think that somehow Apple is trying to do anymore, is to simply be naive.
Well of course they want to make money. But, how do they do it? Like all companies, they do it with their products. A company that has no plan, no focus, no vision of what it is they want to be will not make money. So, Apple has a plan, is focused and is moving in a certain direction in order to achieve this.
Let me put it this way. Let’s look at a company that has been careening all over the place and has had no plan or focus for some time – Gateway. Actually,I feel bad for them becuase I like them. But look, for example, at the way in which they brought out the Profile 4. The January before last, Apple comes out with the flat panel iMac. At first there is all kinds of hoopla and it starts selling like hotcakes. Then the economy starts going south, the novelty wears off and sales plummet. It is at this point that Gateway brings out the Profile 4, and does so advertising it to compete with the iMac. So, there it is – Gateway brings out a new product to compete with another that isn’t selling. That’s why Gateway’s stock is worth $2 plus change per share.
CrackedButter:
All of you, GET A FUCKING LIFE…I’ve never seen so much bitching over a fucking company, whether they make a profit or not or whether they die or not.
Good thing you came here to contribute positively to the thread!
temo:
“One other thing, get the audio improved on the new machines or else get Creative Labs on board to design the chipset.”
That company does not have a reputation for good quality sound.”
Are you kidding, Apple’s audio is top notch… Both hardware and software
I think they were referring to Creative Labs. If I were Apple I’d hook up with Turtle Beach or another of that calibre.
BG (the rest):
802.11G? Easily purchased. Guess what? Cos its not BUILT IN, one can even CHANGE what brand they use, upgrade for a better card, etc. OH HAPPY DAY…
Guess what? Cos it’s made by 50 different manufacturers, the drivers are shite! And the add-in card can get unseated during shipping, or it may sit too close to the AGP card and overheat. And if you have a Shuttle cube, which is about the size of the ‘case’ portion of many Macs, you might not have any room for it at all! OH STUPID DAY…
Macs and PCs are different in more ways than you would seem to be able to comprehend. No one approach is unanimously better than the other — each has its advantages and disadvantages. Nobody ever said that the Victorinox SwissChamp XLT sucks because it doesn’t have an expandable “We’re #1” foam rubber hand extension. Wake up.
rendezvous?? Who cares? Show me why that matters/and/or/is a standard.
No, actually it’s “Rendezvous”, with a capital R. Mac users. Because Apple said so. Next?
Unless I wanna play Network with Macfantards, rendezvous, matters not-eth.
Unless I live in China, speaking Cantonese means not-eth(?). What an enlightening and necessary revelation. And I like how you used a concatenation of the words “Mac”, “fan”, and “retard” to imply that Mac fans are retarded. That was really clever there. And it didn’t form an awkward moniker at all. “Macfantards” just rolls off the tongue, with all those opposing consonants.
Smaller HD? Maybe.. Yet again, upgradeable. Do you guys have 2 channels of IDE yet? LMAO.
Dude, make up your mind: either the HD is “too big”, in which case you can claim sour grapes. Or it needs to be upgradeable, which means it’s “too small”. One argument per argument, please. And do you guys have a mainstream system with SCSI yet? LMAO.
PS. To anyone who thinks I’m defending “my kin”: I’ve never owned a Mac in my life. But I can see their appeal.
Here is the link to IDC:
I couldn’t find “Apple” anywhere on this page.
http://www.idcresearch.com/getdoc.jhtml?containerId=pr2003_04_17_15…
I assume they fall under the category “other vendors”
“Vendors”, yes, that’s all they are (including Apple). Vendors. They all sell you stuff and you give them your money. They pocket the dollars, make more products, make more profits and so on, and on, and on, and on (and then you die).
If any company goes bankrupt then Joe Normal has to go look for a job elsewhere. CEO’s run off and bag the millons of dollars. Joe Normal gets severance pay, if he’s lucky, some welfare or some employment benefits of some kind or he’s up shit creek without a paddle.
Should I cry for them? Should I shed a tear? Boohoohoo, poor CEO won’t be able to fly his jet or take his Ferrari or Rolls Royce out for a spin! Boohoo! Boo-bleeping-hoo!
Basically: who cares?!
Mac’s are too expensive and too slow. Having great operating system won’t get them far. They are not even that innovative anymore.
..not innovative?
uhm, look at their hardware rigs, harman kardon gear etc etc.
innovations in design and hardware with rather good quality, why do i say rather (im elaborating this so i wont get quoted out of context) is because i prefer the new vaio laptops.
let’s look at macosx , what Isn’t innovative about the whole shindig?
the display system is innovative, evolutionary if whatnot
the application-folders
the network technology, like it or not, Rendezvous/zeroconf ( http://www.zeroconf.org ) really kicks the llamas nads!
And I do prefer the iapps over anything of the shelf for the pc to be perfectly honest.
my rig?
dual g4 @ 1.25GHz w. 512MB ram.
Yes osX is nice on that machine.
and yeah, my lan is rigged with zeroconf, beats the crap out of wimping and editing config files.
Guys, shut up. Why does every post about Apple have to turn into a flame war? Yes, some “Mac heads” make stupid comments. But so do the “PC heads”. A good one is “Apple sells only to the wealthy people”. Oh please. I am a student. I am ready to buy a dual CPU Mac. If you dont like Macs and their prices, shut up, and don’t buy one. If you dont like Windows, buy a Mac or PC with Linux.
“I’ve always been surprised by this statement… or at least I have been throughout the past 2-3 years… due to the fact that Apple’s hardware has traditionally been less expensive than comperable PCs. The problem that most analysts make when comparing the two is that they typically compare a stripped PC to a high-end Mac, or forget to add features to the PC that the Mac also has which typically causes the desktop PC to cost more… (assuming we’re talking about machines from name brand manufacturers.”
Having owned Macs from a Classic to a 7200 (strictly PC now) I can state that Macs have always been far more expensive than equivalently performing PC. However early Macs had the advantages of faster SCSI harddrives as standard. The
Open up a modern Mac and you will essentially find regular PC hardware attached to a proprietary Apple motherboard and Motorola processor. The motherboard is mainly PC based (PCI, AGP, SDRAM, ethernet etc) so you are really only getting a Motorola processor fitted to a PC.
You can buy a number of PC motherboards for US$100-150 that has firewire, + Bluetooth etc as standard. It will normally also have goodies that aren’t available on Macs such as USB2.0, SATA RAID, integrated 7.1 sound, dual channel memory and integrated gigabit ethernet.
Current Mcs are indisputably around 2-3 times the price of similarly equippped PCs.
For all those who want to make a Sony/Apple comment the differnces between the two are simple. Sony is a technology company(like Mercedes)which makes high quality products with a moderate price premium and Apple is a marketing company (like Bang and Olufsen) which sells overpriced, stylish boxes containing cheap parts.
Anonymous, I understand your point, but what I’ve been saying is that Apple is trying to become a Sony-like company. They aren’t near there yet, but that’s what they are trying to do.
It does not only matter that Apple stays profitable. You do need market share. Programmers do look whether their potential customers amount to 2% of all buyers or +90%. You have already seen how interest in the platform is eroding with MS threatening not to further develop Office due to the lack of selling boxes. Apple didn’t start developping all those apps because they are so suupa-cool, they did it because they are afraid nobody else will do in the not so distant future. – And what is a platform worth without apps..? Look at BeOS, see the answer. Apple’s market share will ultimately kill them, no matter how good their last numbers will look like.
Yes, I agree – thats why apple is continuing to come out with more and more software. In another Apple/Sony comparison, Sony has a lot of proprietary multimedia apps that come with their VIAO’s. Actually, I think Apple’s are superior to theirs, but i think they got the idea from Sony.
At any rate, I hope Apple stays healthy. Diversity in computing is a good thing. i hope other platforms increase too – the more the merrier.
Okay, one person quotes IDC as saying:
“Apple reported shipments of about 385,000 units for the quarter.”
But while IDC measures “shipments to distribution channels or end users,” it’s been pointed out many times that IDC doesn’t measure what’s being shipped from the Apple Store. And in fact, the article Eugenia links to has the line she quoted:
“…machine sales of 711,000…”
And indeed 711K would be 2.05% of 34.6 million computers.
BUT IDC IS MEASURING UNITS SHIPPED THAT QUARTER, WHICH THEY CLEARLY LIST AT 11.7 MILLION. Look at the chart. IBM is at a 4.8% share with 568,000 units shipped, and we’re trying to argue that Apple is at just over 2% with 711,000 units shipped? And nobody thinks there’s something off in that? Hello!
In other words, MacDailyNews has it wrong. For one, IDC isn’t counting half of the machine sales, and for another, they’re computing percentages on a much higher total than they should be using.
326,000 units weren’t reported by IDC, so to figure out a real percentage we need to include those. By adding those to the 11,734,000 that <em>were</em> reported for 12,060,000 units shipped, Apple’s percentage of units shipped last quarter is in fact 5.9%. They’re clearly number three, well behind Dell and HP but ahead of IBM, Gateway and Toshiba.
Look at the chart. IBM is at a 4.8% share with 568,000 units shipped, and we’re trying to argue that Apple is at just over 2% with 711,000 units shipped? And nobody thinks there’s something off in that? Hello!
Just read the text, especially the title of the chart you are referring to: “U.S. PC shipments”. There were 34.6 million shipments worldwide and 11.7 million in the US. (World!=US)
Apple shipped 385,000 units in the US (3.2% market share) and 711,000 worldwide (2.05% share).
The old myth about Apple direct sales not being included is just that – a myth. Do you really think Apple would silently accept and even USE those market share numbers otherwise?
Alternatively, if we for a second assume that the myth was true: Apple claim that half their sales happen through the stores, meaning their market share should have doubled (since the other part is constant). Isn’t that amazing, considering they are still producing almost the same number of machines?