Home > Windows > Windows 2000-SP4 Released to the Web Windows 2000-SP4 Released to the Web Submitted by Jack Murphy, III 2003-06-25 Windows 78 Comments Windows 2000 Service Pack Four has been released, according to NeoWin. For the change log, you can obtain it here. You can also download the network installer here, and the base net installer here. About The Author Eugenia Loli Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker. Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 78 Comments 2003-06-25 7:24 pm I haven’t had a chance to look at the EULA for this one, but if it is anything like SP3, forget it. I soooo want to give Microsoft permission to whatever the hell they want on my machine….not. I am finding Windows is becoming the ultimate form of spyware. 2003-06-25 7:25 pm Oh? How’s that EULA different than OSX’s or Solaris’ or IRIX’s feature streams? Care to enlighten us? 2003-06-25 7:28 pm Nowhere in OSX do you give Apple permission to do things without your knowledge. Yes there is the Software update panel but you do not have to automatically use it..You can use it as you see fit. With Windows 2000 SP3, you give Microsoft permission to do things to your system without you knowing. I can’t speak for Solaris or IRIX because I don’t use them. 2003-06-25 7:32 pm you can disable the autoupdate feature/service in win2ksp3. 2003-06-25 7:34 pm Eugenia – care to enlighten us as to how the EULA of OS X or Solaris has anything at all to do with the EULA of Win2k? Pretty pointless question to ask to a Windows user. 2003-06-25 7:34 pm Damn, it’s not on windows update yet. Anybody know why? 2003-06-25 7:34 pm You could install the service pack manually. File by file, registry setting by registry setting. This is the only way to know for sure what changes are being made to your system. Otherwise, run a firewall and log all outgoing connections if you’re concerned with spyware. 2003-06-25 7:52 pm The windows 2000 sp3 Eula , gives MS the right to access your machine. and it is also the ONLY one to fail HIPAA,(hospital security concerns) think about that,by agreeing to the EUlA, you are giving MS the right to your machine and any data on it. altho they say, they wont and can’t. -Nex6 2003-06-25 7:52 pm MS modified the EULA for service pack 4. Specifically because of the overly ambiguous claims in the SP3 EULA. They now list the 5 areas where they can attach to your machine. Is that enlightening enough for you Eugenia? Keep spouting off though. 2003-06-25 7:59 pm It’s the same EULA as SP3 but now it’s written in clearer language. If you don’t want MS messing around with your system then turn off the automatic update feature. Also turn off codec update in Media Player and don’t use any protected content. If you’re so unhappy with MS why aren’t you running Linux or a Mac? Don’t complain, just vote with your feet. I did. 2003-06-25 8:12 pm Exactly Bruce. Although I still use Win2k I do use Linux also and expect in the coming years to finally abandon Windows. I think that if you don’t like something you don’t have to do it. If you system works fine right now (like mine) you don’t have to install SP4. It’s that easy. 2003-06-25 8:15 pm This SP seems to have really increased the responsiveness of this machine. It feels like a clean install of Windows 2000… very nice. Despite all the EULA concerns, it is really a very, very good update. Congrats around. 2003-06-25 8:20 pm “The windows 2000 sp3 Eula , gives MS the right to access your machine. ” This is what we call the god clause. 2003-06-25 8:26 pm They could post a story here called “Bill Gates eats breakfast” and the forum would fill up with anti-MS hysteria about how Microsoft is taking over. It’s just a service pack. 2003-06-25 8:27 pm They are sshhhhhhh… -Nex6 2003-06-25 8:41 pm Trust me, I use OS X for my day to day stuff. I have to run one program that unfortunately there is no equivalent in Linux or OS X because if there was, trust me, I would ditch the Winblows machine in a heart beat. 2003-06-25 8:51 pm That’s because Bill Gates eats babies for breakfast. :-p 2003-06-25 8:59 pm Horraaay!!!! New Bugs and SpyWare Atlast =]]] SUX!!!! 2003-06-25 8:59 pm About month ago there was an article which one has more bugs, windows or linux. I think SP4 bugfix list is quite impressive. 2003-06-25 9:06 pm think about that,by agreeing to the EUlA, you are giving MS the right to your machine and any data on it. altho they say, they wont and can’t. Well, I can’t imagine what the hell they would want with my machine, but ok. If they want to turn off my OS, let them .. there’s always alternatives. I’m not going to lose any sleep over it. “OH MY GOD!!!! MS can see what DVD’s I’m watching .. the end of the world must be near!!!!!” *yawn* 2003-06-25 9:50 pm I think you FAIL to understand. If your a company, like say a Bank or a hospital. and you have things like the SEC, HIPAA,and banking regs to answer to. it IS a big DEAL. for your home users its nothing, but for companys its a pretty big deal. so lets say you have a server with a database of YOUR bank records on it, now MS has full access to those records…… get it? sheeesh…. -Nex6 2003-06-25 9:53 pm Comments so far; – People who hate MS, yet use Windows while bashing MS – People who switched to an alternative yet still criticising an MS update (you have nothing to do with this topic). Now some I have a question actually about the article; SP4. Has anyone tried slipstreaming the SP4 and installing the slipstreamed compilation? Any improvements worth making a clean Win2K SP4 slipstreamed install? (I prefer to a clean slipstreamed install whenever there is a new SP) — SerkZilla — Because I like Mozilla 2003-06-25 10:12 pm This latest ‘service pack’ is supposed to restore the drug trade to your Windows 2000 box. Meaning that you are going to be told one thing — i.e. “war on drugs” — and behind the scenes something entirely different is going to happen — i.e. “drug trade restored thanks to efforts of CIA”. 2003-06-25 10:18 pm You have to look at priorities because if you have some apps that require windows then go ahead use windows if you have some things like networking etc firewall etc configuration use BSD (by the way FreeBSD is my favorite) or otherwise dont complain if you are that concerned use a disconnected machine with Vi on it as a text editor. Although I am not happy sometimes with MS for registry and other not very cleverly though out descisions they produce good systems for small firms and small busenesses. Otherwise big cmpanies mostly use Novell. So you gotta know what you will be using operating system for, you have to look at your priorities, 2003-06-25 10:26 pm Well, I can’t imagine what the hell they would want with my machine, but ok. If they want to turn off my OS, let them .. there’s always alternatives. I’m not going to lose any sleep over it. “OH MY GOD!!!! MS can see what DVD’s I’m watching .. the end of the world must be near!!!!!” *yawn* That’s not the problem. The real problem is: the more rights you give, the less freedom you will have. They start taking your freedom with small moves like this… and then one day you could wake up one day without any freedom. Would you like to be watched for every thing you do on your computer? Would you like to be prevented to do things they judge as “bad”? I must admit that we are still very far from a police state like this, but that could happen if we all say “bah, it doesn’t matter much to me, I don’t have anything to hide”. I hope you understand my concerns (or my paranoia . 2003-06-25 10:34 pm 128MB execuatable service pack? Practically an OS in it’s own right! Don’t forget to turn off the automatic updater. “Yes, please quietly download and install lots of anonymous updates that could potentially screw up my machine” ?! That’s plain ignorance. Move to Linux? I’d wait a couple of years on that. In my opinion, it’s not quite ready for the average desktop user. Probably ready for business desktop users though. I’m with you on that anyway. After Microsoft ends the Windows 2000 product life cycle in 2007 I’m making Linux my new OS. 2003-06-25 10:40 pm “you can disable the autoupdate feature/service in win2ksp3.” and they can turn it back on without letting you know as well. 2003-06-25 10:42 pm That’s right keep it up *nix nazis. 2003-06-25 10:42 pm Don’t forget to turn off the automatic updater. “Yes, please quietly download and install lots of anonymous updates that could potentially screw up my machine” ?! That’s plain ignorance. Yeah, because we ALL know how MS has been trying to make their OSes unstable :rollseyes: 2003-06-25 10:43 pm <blockquote><hr> MS modified the EULA for service pack 4. Specifically because of the overly ambiguous claims in the SP3 EULA. They now list the 5 areas where they can attach to your machine. <hr></blockquote> So does that still give M$ permission to enforce DRM/WPA on your machine without your knowledge and remove/tamper with any program on your computer to get DRM/WPA working properly? 2003-06-25 10:48 pm Yeah, because we ALL know how MS has been trying to make their OSes unstable If they were trying to do that, then what would be the use to buy the next version? Because it has pretty graphics? Because you can work on a window while it is floating around the screen? The bugs they keep in are the ones that you want to fix by purchasing the next version. btw, i still havnt read anyone complementing the sp4 yet. <g> 2003-06-25 10:56 pm WHAT IS IT WITH YOU GUYS NOT BEING ABLE TO DETECT SARCASM. I thought the :rollseyes: would have gave it away. I was trying to refute the point the guy I quoted was trying to make. 2003-06-26 12:05 am Re: Nex6 for your home users its nothing, but for companys its a pretty big deal. so lets say you have a server with a database of YOUR bank records on it, now MS has full access to those records…… get it? Sorry … I forgot people still use Windows as servers Re: Wrawrat That’s not the problem. The real problem is: the more rights you give, the less freedom you will have. They start taking your freedom with small moves like this… and then one day you could wake up one day without any freedom. See, that’s what happens when you get too paranoid. As far as I’m concerned, the way I deal with The Corporation is let them do whatever until I feel they have invaded my personal space. If it turns out that they have taken away a freedom that actually matters to me (at this point in time, I couldn’t give a rat’s ass if I can’t copy my DVDs) then they’re gonna have hell to pay. But until then, the way I see it, we only have one life to live and I don’t intend to spend mine worrying about if MS or anyone else knows how many porn sites I’ve visited this week. 2003-06-26 12:16 am “If it turns out that they have taken away a freedom that actually matters to me (at this point in time, I couldn’t give a rat’s ass if I can’t copy my DVDs) then they’re gonna have hell to pay.” Uh huh. That would be when exactly? You think the congress is going to figure out they made a mistake and fix it? How much did we lose with DMCA? It’s still on the books. It’s still illegal to do all that stuff they prohibit. By the time you figure out that you lost that right, it’s a long hard fight to get it back. I’d recommend picking up a Snickers bar. You’re going to be a while… 2003-06-26 12:35 am Serkzilla wrote: Comments so far; – People who hate MS, yet use Windows while bashing MS . Maybe its because people like me who HAVE to use Windows because everything is written for Windows. Thats what pisses me off is That I have no choice. I would use a MAC but I dont have $2000 to spend on a computer. I would use linux but there are no Adobe products for linux (ex: After effects) and no good alternatives. so here I’am bashing MS on a Windows machine. 2003-06-26 1:56 am People complain that M$ has backdoors into your system because of their EULA. The average user says ‘so what, why do they care if I am watching a DVD’. Exactly true. They don’t. But don’t let that hamper the enthusiasm of the conspiracy theorists. The theorists reply ‘but this is important for major corporations’. Hopefully they are not doing any network admin tasks, since anyone with a clue would have multiple firewalls between their corporate luser network and the outside world. Anyone who doesn’t, deserves to get hung out to dry. They also complain that Windows is a toy of an OS and ‘not worthy’. If so, why bitch and moan? A packetsniffer and some firewall rules should fix that real fast, surely? Oh thats right, it wouldn’t serve the purpose of bashing M$ to say EULA backdoors are easily circumvented. Then ofcourse there is the last fact that is the most bothersome one. Fear what you don’t understand. Which points back to the second paragraph above. Anyone not included in the above is a pirate. And they are the ones that scream the loudest about the EULA. Too bad, put up (pay for it) or shut up (format c:). To sum up, if you’re going to bash, bash with some intelligence and merit. If not, just STFU since no-one is really interested. Seriously. 2003-06-26 2:21 am That would be when exactly? You think the congress is going to figure out they made a mistake and fix it? How much did we lose with DMCA? It’s still on the books. It’s still illegal to do all that stuff they prohibit. Honestly, who gives a shit about what Congress does? And who gives a shit about what is legal? I certainly don’t. Case in point – I have been using WinXP for a little over a year and have installed it on several boxen, and I haven’t once activated it. Technically, AFAIK, it is illegal to watch DVDs in Linux, and also it is illegal to own a mod chip for the XBox. But how often does that stop people? What’s my point here? A congress that is owned by The Corporation who makes laws to take away my freedom is actually different than them actually taking away my freedom. All of their attempts to do so have failed so far. You want a Congress that doesn’t bow to The Corporation? Well, you can vote for any president or congressmen you want, but since they all are paid employers of The Corporation anyway, the only way you’re going to get rid of ‘Corporate America’ is if ‘consumers’ start voting with their wallets in mass. And the only way that’s going to happen is by some sort of revolution in which you can convince people not to be so greedy and selfish. And, well … if you think you’re going to get there by ‘converting’ people to an alternate OS, well … just continue hitting the crackpipe. The rest of us will continue being greedy and selfish. Hey, it’s not my revolution 2003-06-26 2:24 am As far as I’m concerned, the way I deal with The Corporation is let them do whatever until I feel they have invaded my personal space. If it turns out that they have taken away a freedom that actually matters to me (at this point in time, I couldn’t give a rat’s ass if I can’t copy my DVDs) then they’re gonna have hell to pay. When you hear that an hurricane is coming, do you hide & prepare or you wander outside ’till it hits you? It could miss your town, after all. Do you think you could face The Corporation alone? Btw, you’re quite selfish. It’s not because you don’t care that you can’t copy your DVD that nobody cares ’bout this. What will you do if you do need to copy them someday or later? It’ll be too late to complain. But until then, the way I see it, we only have one life to live and I don’t intend to spend mine worrying about if MS or anyone else knows how many porn sites I’ve visited this week. Do you think I’m a geek with an anorak, listening X-Files & Star Trek, dreaming and writing conspiracy theories? No, I’m just a normal guy with a life with a girlfriend that wants to keep his privacy. You may call me a paranoiac, but I consider myself a proactive guy rather than a reactive one. I prefer to maintening things rather than wait ’till they break. 2003-06-26 2:31 am “btw, i still havnt read anyone complementing the sp4 yet.” I installed it on my desktop machine earlier today, and all is well. My apps still run, my compilers still work, network is still operational. Actually seems to be working even better than SP3. Sorry to disappoint the penguinistas, but it works fine. 2003-06-26 2:48 am When you hear that an hurricane is coming, do you hide & prepare or you wander outside ’till it hits you? It could miss your town, after all. Having been raised on the Texas coast, I have quite a bit of experience with hurricanes. A hurricane is actually not an analogy that helps your case. When you know there’s a very high probability the a hurricane is coming, there really isn’t much you can do about it. You can either leave town or stay and ride it out. But the fact that you bitch about it or try to wish it away doesn’t change the fact that it’s eventually going to hit. By your analogy, basically what you’re saying is that I should board up my house and leave town 3 weeks before the it actually arrives. The hurricane is coming and there’s nothing you can do to stop it … it has way too much momentum already. To get more literal, all of the things you are seeing like Palledum (sp) and the DMCA is just a sympton of the problem, not the cause – Corporate America is much, much bigger than the technology sector. If you want to change things, get involved with politics or take it to the White House, or become an activist or something – but SCREW Linux for political reasons. If you manage to change things higher up and cut the problem off at the root, the changes will eventually trickle down into every part of your life, and the whole Windows problem will go away by itself. If you want to protect your privacy, you’re not just fighting MS or DoubleClick – you’re fighting an army of Marketers and the entire Corporate Machine. Hehe, good luck 2003-06-26 3:01 am w2ksp4_en.exe downloadeds wicked fast, there must not be that many people that know about it yet. It is not that often that a company has downloads speed at above 1 MB/s. 2003-06-26 3:15 am By your analogy, basically what you’re saying is that I should board up my house and leave town 3 weeks before the it actually arrives. The hurricane is coming and there’s nothing you can do to stop it … it has way too much momentum already. I’m not saying 3 weeks, I’m just saying you have to prepare. As for the example… Well, maybe we’ll find someday a technology to stop hurricanes! To get more literal, all of the things you are seeing like Palledum (sp) [it’s Palladium] and the DMCA is just a sympton of the problem, not the cause – Corporate America is much, much bigger than the technology sector. If you want to change things, get involved with politics or take it to the White House, or become an activist or something – but SCREW Linux for political reasons. Well, I didn’t talked of Linux, but yes, you’re right. Linux isn’t the solution to the problem. However, I don’t live in the US, so I can hardly involve myself in your politics. If you manage to change things higher up and cut the problem off at the root, the changes will eventually trickle down into every part of your life, and the whole Windows problem will go away by itself. Agree, but you have to start somewhere. Starting at the root is the way to go, but it might be too hard to tackle at first. You have to begin somewhere, after all. If you want to protect your privacy, you’re not just fighting MS or DoubleClick – you’re fighting an army of Marketers and the entire Corporate Machine. Hehe, good luck Well, you know, I’m not a privacy advocate. I may care about it, but it’s not my biggest concern. So what if DoubleClick knows what websites I visit… What I do really care is the rootability (eh… you know, being rooted by someone else of my machine. I don’t want anybody to decide what I can do (or not) with my machine. 2003-06-26 3:30 am Without taking a stand on the TIA system, which previously was called Total Information Awareness, Gates applauded increased information sharing between government agencies. He cited current law enforcement efforts to share criminal databases, but predicted that, “unless this system is properly connected to the entire Homeland Security command structure, the potential will not be fully realized.” “We’re proud to be involved in the effort to connect a significant portion of the federal homeland security community into a national information-sharing and intelligence-analysis network,” Gates said. John Hamre, president of CSIS and a former deputy secretary of defense, defended TIA in an afternoon speech that followed Gates’ remarks. “I think we need a domestic surveillance organization in this country…I think they’re really on to something,” he said, talking about Adm. John Poindexter’s plans to create the TIA system. Only a fool would trust Microsoft given Microsoft’s continual support for intrusive spyware and data theft. Not to mention Microsoft’s agreement with the USGOVT to provide the government with monitoring on 95% of personal computer users via the Windows monopoly. 2003-06-26 3:35 am Well, you know, I’m not a privacy advocate. I may care about it, but it’s not my biggest concern. So what if DoubleClick knows what websites I visit… What I do really care is the rootability (eh… you know, being rooted by someone else of my machine. I don’t want anybody to decide what I can do (or not) with my machine. I think you just prooved my point, really. I would assume that since you don’t care about if Doubleclick knows what websites you’re viewing, you probably don’t go out of your way to block any and every cookie from Doubleclick on your machine. And even if you use some program that does that and one cookie accidentally gets through your filters, you’re probably not going to loose much sleep over it. But someone could come to you and say “But when a hurricane comes, do you just wander around outisde”, at which point you would probably tell them that they should really *go* outside more The way I see it, you can either become an advocate (which neither one of us are) or you can choose to wait until it becomes personal to you, which you have done, and which I will do as well. Personally, I’m not one who cares much about being ‘watched’ by Big Brother. In fact, if Big Brother wanted to stand outside of my window and watch me jerk off, I’d probably raise the blinds for him. As far as my machine goes, up to this point, I can do everything I want with it. Not all of it is legal, but then again .. I hear it’s also illegal to walk barefoot in the grass in my home states (dumblaws.com), so be it. 2003-06-26 4:16 am **DO NOT REPLY AS THIS EMAIL IS BEING SENT TO YOU FROM AN UN-MONITORED ACCOUNT. ** **** ***** ****** Beta ID:****** Hello **** ****** Dear Windows 2000 Service Pack 4 Beta Tester, Thank you very much for your effort testing Windows 2000 Service Pack 4 (SP4). We are pleased to let you download the final build 4.081 at BetaPlace. Note: This build has not been released to the public. You will be notified once SP4 is available for download at Windows Update and Microsoft Download Center. To download build 4.081 please go to BetaPlace: http://www.betaplace.com. Sign in using your .NET Passport account. If you haven’t associated your beta ID with your passport account please follow these steps: – Select the “Sign In” button – Log on using your .NET Passport Account and password. (If you do not have one you can obtain one from the main login screen) – Choose the “I have been issued a Beta ID and password by Microsoft to associate with my .NET Passport.” Selection – Enter your betaID: ****** and Password: ************* (please note: your password is case sensitive) – Click “OK” The association is now complete and you are logged into http://www.betaplace.com. Microsoft private newsgroups will be available for technical support. Private newsgroups are accessed from a dedicated news server and require a User ID and Password before giving you access. You can access the newsgroups in two ways. You can use WebNews as your newsreader which is a HTML based newsgroup at http://webnews.microsoft.com. Or you can configure your newsreader program. More detailed information about accessing the newsgroups is available at http://www.betaplace.com. If you need assistance, please send email email@example.com. Thanks again. Microsoft Windows Sustained Engineering Team 2003-06-26 4:22 am You might want to get a new username and password 2003-06-26 5:56 am Installing the service pack on 4 somewhat different machines has gone well. Installation puts the Usual Internet Explorer crap all over the place. It also changes the automatic download service from my setting of disabled to automatic. That said, it did remember that I wanted it shut off. It never ran. So far, everything runs. 2003-06-26 5:59 am “Sorry to disappoint the penguinistas, but it works fine.” Same here. I think it is a high quality patch. Upgraded 10 workstations and 2 DC’s in the lab, all survived with no noticable changes except for speed. Looks like Linux has even more catching up to do 2003-06-26 6:35 am hi, where is auto update in win2k? i know winxp has one but i didnt notice it in win2k. thanks 2003-06-26 7:38 am Microsoft hasn’t announced these bug fixes on their own web site, yet Neowin has already posted links. Isn’t this a case similar to Slashdot announcing a FreeBSD release when the official website hasn’t done it ? 2003-06-26 7:57 am I believe you can install Auto Update via Windows Update or a separate download on Microsoft site. It’s not shipped by default with W2K like with XP. 2003-06-26 8:17 am Someone ever ask this question, no one got response?? Why this SP4 is not annonced by Micro$oft? http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/downloads/servicepacks/default… Nothing about SP4 on the W2K SP page. 2003-06-26 8:38 am Ok, they did it. I run BootLogo on W2k Server, and the changes that makes in the Kernel mean that SP4 refuses to do the update unless you boot without the changes made by Bootlogo. In addition, after the SP install, you will find that choosing Bootlogo means the PC reboots/bugs out before hitting the desktop. So, SP4 = No Bootlogo. Which is a shame. Bootlogo has added a fun element to my W2k boxes for a long time. Its not a serious or nasty change, but one I would prefer not to have happened. AdmV 2003-06-26 8:38 am Because your patch did not destroy your system you are so excited ??? And linux users should sad because of that? Update by default should not destroy . It is just mean that you donot trust company which produced your windows. 2003-06-26 11:32 am Again, a fair amount of users who bitch about Windows and are ‘forced’ to use Windows often are also in it for the ease of piracy. I’m not saying that you’re necessarily using pirated software, but if the only reason you won’t get a Mac is because you don’t have $2000, but readily plunk down $700 for AfterEffects, which is over one-third the cost of the 1.6 GHz PowerMac for one piece of software, something *does* sound fishy. Also when complaining about Linux, you mentioned there was no reasonable alternative to software like AfterEffects, but have you ever tried CinePaint (formerly Film Gimp, http://cinepaint.sourceforge.net/)? According to their website (and other media reports), it’s been used on such current movies as “2 Fast 2 Furious, Scooby-Doo, Harry Potter, Stuart Little “. While you may bitch about its interface or whatnot, those movies sound a bit more high-brow than anything most home users (or work users, for that matter) will do in AE. 2003-06-26 12:24 pm Why is there NO INFO on Microsoft’s web site about the release of SP4? has anyone tested this yet? 2003-06-26 12:45 pm Previously I had a disk problem. It basically left me with a semi trashed explorer/internet explorer, they both worked but you had to make them update by fiddling with menus and so forth. I tried SP3 and was left in the same boat. I have loaded SP4 and was surprised to see the issue is now fixed. One downside is they clearly mess with the kernel, as the old kernel and my bootlogo stuff now have issues. I have spoken to the bootlogo maintainer and he suggests trying to reload bootlogo via the new kernel. This is off course to be done with caution/backups and so forth.. Thats the only ‘gotcha’ I have found so far, but give me a chance, its day 1 here AdmV 2003-06-26 1:00 pm It’s not on microsoft.com yet because it’s not officially released to the public yet. It’s still a premier support download. That’s why the linked “fixes” page has the confidentiality thing at the top of it. My TAM said he expected it to be officially released to the masses on the 30th. 2003-06-26 1:06 pm I’ve just checked the list, and there are some things what I cannot understand. 4 example: “327012 Index Server 3.0 Does Not Correctly Index Some Excel Files Base operating system” or “ASP Generates a New ASP SessionID Cookie for Every User Access” How can be the Excell application a part in the “base operating system” ? Why the problem comes with only EXCEL files??? These fix descriptions like fingerprints. You can assume how good is the software and it’s programmer from the kind of errors. Yes. I make errors too. While I’m a human. But if I’m making an error it isn’t connected to something else. In windows it seems there are a lot of conceptual problems and filled with dirty hacks. My favourite is this: “Windows 2000 Post-Service Pack 3 Active Directory Rollup Hotfix” 2003-06-26 1:16 pm I installed SP4 and there is one thing that really makes it stand out…NO annoying icons were added to my desktop…NO useless bookmarks were added in IE…NO OS settings were turned back on that I specifically turned off. I don’t have to clean up junk left behind by the patch. That’s a nice change. 2003-06-26 1:57 pm I’m still waiting for you guinea pigs to test things for me over the next coupla weeks, before I dive in. I expect a full report of the true nature of this beast soon 2003-06-26 1:59 pm //With Windows 2000 SP3, you give Microsoft permission to do things to your system without you knowing.// Like? Can you give specific examples? Other than compatibility/integrity checks? How’s that tin-foil hat fitting these days? 2003-06-26 2:16 pm Well, does that mean you will like many others accuse them of not fixing problems and bugs? I think people should be consistent. If MS fail to fix the bugs, and its viewed as a point/bone of contention, then the abuse/comment/attacks have validity. If we are merely going to attack the subject wether right or wrong, better or worse, I fail to see anything constructive or sensible with such thinking. Surely you should be happy they are making fixes? AdmV 2003-06-26 2:20 pm If you would be a coder also, you would understand what I’ve talking about. Yes, It’s always good if they fixing bugs. But checking these list you can guess how many others aren’t fixed, and how many will appear again with this SP4, because of the wrong conception base. 2003-06-26 2:45 pm Don’t forget to turn off the automatic updater. “Yes, please quietly download and install lots of anonymous updates that could potentially screw up my machine” ?! That’s plain ignorance. People forget that Microsoft can’t just do this without a huge gigantic backlash. If people can notice Apple slipping up for a few minutes on their site, imagine now with Microsoft. If Microsoft decides to download information like your credit card numbers and bank account statements – trust me, the world would know. And if incompatibilities between Office 95 and Office 97 can cause such a uproar that cause Microsoft’s share prices to drop slightly, imagine this. Besides the fact that key portions of Microsoft EULA can be easily discredited in courts of many countries and Microsoft themselves can get sued, loose most, if not all, of their government and sensitive customers (like banks, law offices, hospitals, etc.). I wouldn’t have mentioned antitrust laws because I disagree with it – but it is also they to knock Microsoft head till they black out. The chances of Microsoft doing such a idiotic thing is like Israel commiting mass genoicide of the Jews – it just wouldn’t happen. Otherwise it would be just suicide – plain and simple. Sure, Israel can tecnically kill all the Jews between Jordan river and the Meditarrean, but would they? Highly unquestionably positively unlikely. Same here with Microsoft. Microsoft looses more than it can gain. 2003-06-26 2:58 pm marcthepirate wrote: but if the only reason you won’t get a Mac is because you don’t have $2000, but readily plunk down $700 for AfterEffects, which is over one-third the cost of the 1.6 GHz PowerMac for one piece of software, something *does* sound fishy. Thats my point. I already paid Adobe over a $1000 for the digital video collection. I dont want to pay another $2k for my computer when I can build my own PC for less then $600. Nothing “fishy” about that. Thanks for the link to cienpaint. I’m going to check it out. I keep a linux partition around on my machine to try out stuff like this. 2003-06-26 2:58 pm I didn’t noticed any noticible difference, except that it seems to boot faster – but I don’t know. Well, since I’m going to sleep now, I can’t really test it out… 2003-06-26 3:18 pm The most funniest thing is that, ppls are handlig this as they are walking on an edge and if they doesn’t hurt their leg, it is ok. Is it shoul be like this? I mean: Is it natural, that you always have to care about (and be in fear when you installing) a new “service pack” ??? And if it works, you are going to blow a champain and shout: “Yes! M$ did it!” 2003-06-26 4:15 pm Read this article: http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20020816S0001 It explains that you aren’t giving explicit rights to your system and the only reason MS put that legal jargon in there is so when you run WINDOWSUPDATE on your system, their servers can probe what you have installed on your system and it is all legal. You don’t want them probing – don’t turn auto-update on. Plain and simple. Any self-respecting good Sys Admin doesn’t use the Auto-Update feature anyway. You test out your patches before you plop them on a system. Have a good day! Bill 2003-06-26 4:28 pm If you don’t like the EULA, don’t agree to it. There’s always another option, sitting right next to the accept option. Nobody forces you to use Windows, well at least on machines you personally own. And at work, any data you create is not really your own and you never personally accept those EULA’s anyway, your sysadmin does. If you don’t like MS, Apple would be happy to sell you a Mac, RedHat would love your patronage too, and if you’re a long-time Windows user, you could always step back to NT 4 or Win95/98. See lots of options, nobody’s holding a gun to your head telling you to accept the EULA. So all of you…QUIT YOUR FUCKING LAME-ASS BITCHING!!! 2003-06-26 4:29 pm Certain things do work a bit faster than before. Look at the changelog, quite a few performance fixes there. Still feels slower than 2003 – I agree with Eugenia on that one, it’s the fastest-feeling modern MS OS. D 2003-06-26 6:18 pm MS IE 5.5 freezes like crazy now. I only used it to stream trailers and such though, so figure not too much of a problem to simple uninstall it and use Mozilla all the time. Boot up speed seems faster. Also when I use applications that access the internet, wording the firewall gives me regarding how they’re accessing it has changed. Instead of “Do you want Mozilla/Firebird to access the internet” It’s now “Do you want to let explorer initiate Mozilla/Firebirds access to the internet”.. not sure exactly what the difference is though. 2003-06-26 7:10 pm This thing installed a couple new services including one called “Windows Service Pack Installer update service” which runs spupdsvc.exe and spupdw2k.exe whenever my computer starts, and these processes never go away even after disabling this service. What possible purpose could these things be serving? Kris 2003-06-26 9:18 pm Ok, I read the Fred Langa article as suggested by Bill Temple. I don’t follow Fred Langa, so I can’t tell is he a lying schill or is he just naive? He has the text right there in front of him and he comes to an unsupported conclusion.The license says: “The OS Product or OS Components contain components that enable and facilitate the use of certain Internet-based services. You acknowledge and agree that Microsoft may automatically check the version of the OS Product and/or its components that you are utilizing and may provide upgrades or fixes to the OS Product that will be automatically downloaded to your computer.” People may try to mitigate this by saying that you can turn off auto-update. But that does not address the matter. This license says you give those rights to Microsoft. It does not limit Microsoft’s ability to disable parts of your system automatically if you disable auto-update. You just have to trust them. Based on there past veracity. this trust would be misplaced. With that said about their agreement as of SP3, I think they have significantly improved it for SP4. I am still studying it, but so far I think it may be reasonable. 2003-06-27 12:28 am …since anyone with a clue would have multiple firewalls between their corporate luser network and the outside world. Anyone who doesn’t, deserves to get hung out to dry. … To sum up, if you’re going to bash, bash with some intelligence and merit. If not, just STFU since no-one is really interested. Seriously. Here, Here, +1 good, true iptables -t OUTPUT -d 188.8.131.52/16 -j drop that should be sufficient to take care of most things related to microsoft. cheers dg 2003-06-27 4:50 pm FBI headquarters: “Good morning Ralph.” “‘Morning Fred” > E=MC2.exe (run) “Lets see what we got here… Hmmmm got a live one” Keyphrases: “Honestly, who gives a shit about what Congress does? And who gives a shit about what is legal? I certainly don’t. ” “… but since they all are paid employers of The Corporation anyway, …” “Did he say “revolution”?” “Yeah, Fred” “We’ll have to alert Microsoft,” “Right Ralph” “By the way, Fred, you cash that check from The Corporation?” “Is that what we’re calling it this week?, Yeah, …bounced” “Activate his servicepacks?” “Check.” “Tag his email” “Check.” “Turn on the WWW Elmer Fudd filter on Darius IP:.dsl.austtx.swbell.net.” “Check” “Sucker be beggin’ for mercy in a week or two” 😉 “Windows 2000-SP4 bug fix for the mind” 2003-06-28 3:52 pm LOL @ HYLAS. I have installed SP4 on 3 workstations and one server in my lab. It works fine. Talking to NT Admins, they can’t wait to slipstream and start installing it on new servers as we have seen about a dozen of the errors and blue screens that this fixes during the setup of servers. SP4 reportedly causes Quake III to bomb. This is as of yet unconfirmed. The AutoUpdate in Win2k arrives with install of sp3 and/or sp4. BTW, I have supported some Linux (Redhat 6-9), Mac (V.8 and nothing since), and Windows (3.0 to xp) for 10 years. I really am not emotional about any of them, so spare me your flaming PMS-ridden whining. Honestly, Windows 2000 has been the easiest to support of all OSes in my experience. These bug fixes that come with SP4 tell me it will be even easier and free up more time to read OSNEWS. Hats off to M$ for not orphaning Windows 2000! 2003-06-30 2:22 pm Before installing the SP, I checked here first to see if anyone had any problems. No one did (good news) so I went ahead and did the install. Minutes later, I was looking at a toasted OS. Each time the machine would get to the sign-on screen, it would re-boot. Digging through the boot log, I found that the audio driver (AC’97, latest version) was not initializing and the machine was resulting in a segfault. Changing the driver has not fixed the problem yet. Hopefully, this will be fixed quickly. I’ll say one thing for MS, at least their uninstall worked and the machine was rolled back successfully. For those who might have a similar problem, you have to boot up in safe mode, go to Add/Remove Programs in the Control Panel, and remove the SP from there.