ZDNet takes a look at Indigo, the next major version of Microsoft’s web services platform, which is scheduled to be released concurrently with Longhorn, the next major Windows OS version. Indigo is believed to be aimed directly at enterprise-class web services platforms like the Java 2 Enterprise Edition ones from BEA and IBM.
Next .NET Aims at J2EE’s Turf
2003-08-08 .NET 21 Comments
I think it is too late to really make a difference. With the current incarnations of .NET, there is really nothing there to entice Java customers to switch. I write code using .NET on almost a daily basis, and there’s really nothing there that would keep me using it other than a company wide mandate. It is good, but it doesn’t stand out from the rest of the technologies available to me. It’s just another tool in the collection.
If this new Extra Strength .NET is only comparable to Java, but doesn’t blow it out of the water (which is currently the case) then there is no reason for any company to incur the huge costs of switching; so they won’t.
A friend of mine started a web services company. They have been doing pretty well, but most of their prospective customers are demanding that they rewrite their Microsoft app as a J2EE app. The customer concerns are not only stability, but also being locked into one vendor. Furthermore, they do not want to be locked into one OS, whether its Solaris, Windows, Linux, or one particular hardware platform. Java makes the most sense in this case, since they won’t have to worry about changes in underlying platforms.
Also, the security benefits of Java are not present in Microsoft technologies. Removing the presence of pointers entirely gives a huge security benefit, since you don’t have to question whether developers are going to use “managed code”.
Sun needs motivation! Don’t think so? Where is the shared VM in 1.5? Not there. Needs to be.
it surely helps pathetic companies locked to .net surely, but will have 0 impact on the j2ee world. nobody wants to be locked to ms. i’m into j2ee from its beginning, and even i am being surprised everyday with another breaking news.
for instance, latest news is that, apache group just started a new open sourced j2ee server project with very important names from jboss and openejb. its called geronimo, and currently its under apache incubator. http://incubator.apache.org/projects/geronimo.html with this, there will be four great open source j2ee implementations, including jboss, jonas, openejb and geronimo.
another news: red hat enrolled in object web consortium. object web is a group like apache producing many great j2ee and java software. red hat will be distributing JOnAS (object web’s great open source j2ee implementation.). Check it out here: http://www.objectweb.org/phorum/read.php?f=25&i=31&t=31
eBAY, servicing 1 billion pages a day, has chosen to go entirely j2ee by 2004. here’s the quote on why from eBay:
“eBay’s evaluation of Microsoft’s .NET initiative concluded that, at the time, it was not ready to meet its needs…..But, as we dug into the different issues, we reached the realization that we needed a more OPEN ARCHITECTURE accompanied with overarching process changes. This paradigm was integral to our decision to go with Java technology.”
in short, ms can do whatever they want, but j2eers will not shift. actually, everybody is shifting to j2ee.
Does Indigo run on multiple platforms, does it run on Linux? I highly doubt it!!
That is a good example, but it does not mean everyone will go with J2EE instead of .NET. You can imply that the current version of .NET may not be aimed at J2EE’s market, because this article specifically states they will be targetting it in the not-so-soon future. On another note, can you explain to me why people get so upset, at many mention of competitors’ products? Why that some people some take some issues so personally, as if you had insulted their mother if you dare to like a different product? Why in particular, does the open source community feel that they need to constantly spread FUD about Microsoft products? I guess it’s the cool thing to hate Microsoft, but it (and I’m nto talking about you specifically btw) is quite sheeplike. Reading Slashdot makes my brain hurt, after seeing a +5 “but SCO charges $699” and a “but does it have a BSOD?” post on every story..
….fud. i didn’t say it means everybody will go with j2ee. but everybody that i know around is. only the firms deep in ms shit is sticking with .net nowadays.
i am not getting upset when i hear .net. i just say what i think. i do not think that oss spreads fud about ms as much as ms spreads fud about oss. you know halloween docs etc. and i know many sharks called ms representatives throwing shit on oss in every meeting of every project. (i am project manager managing big scale international projects.)
there are reasons why many people feel hatred towards ms. it deserves it. ms should think about why its like that and try to solve it rather than trying to fight with it aimlessly. so, yes. its a cool thing to hate ms.
XMLRPC is simply too heavy to scale on today’s hardware, especially when competing with established, scalable middleware solutions like CORBA.
I see .NET succeeding on the client side, where Java has horribly failed, and Java continuing to succeed on the server side.
Ha. Not everybody moves from .NET to j2ee. There are companies that do quite the opposite. When .NET is mature enough to be compared with j2ee (.NET as the enterprise platform and not the JRE) then I guess it will be up to the IT specialist to decide what to choose based on what suites better and not the “religious” opinions or M$ business malpractices. M$ should be hated for how they sell their stuff and not what they create.
Move alone folks. Just M$ marketing in high gear. “You tell the people something long enough and hard enough and it becomes truth.”
CooCooChaChoo (IP: —.client.attbi.com), go back home, please, you’re making a real dick of yourself. I have NEVER worked for that company in my life.
Up until I was 18 I had small part time jobs then from 19years onwards I owned my own IT business centred around selling workstations and servers based on VERY high quality and sometimes expensive hardware.
Minimum price for the workstations were generally around NZ$4000. What differentiated myself from the competition? there was a truck load of services I threw into the whole package. I did at one point dabble with the idea of getting into the lower cost computer market, however, having looked at the margins one would expect, I could not justify it.
I did that for around 3-4 years, now I am over in Australia studying towards a degree in IT and Marketing.
Here is a hint sunshine, no one cares about the chip on your sholder. Bugger off and stick to the Tomshardware forums where overclockers and other low lives hang out whilst the rest of us here can actually debate the merits of J2EE vs .NET
One can take the what Microsoft and the OSS community say about .NET out of the whole debate but ultimately the market is speaking and it is saying that it doesn’t want another win32 like API which grabs anyone by the long and curlies and doesn’t let go.
We have the shared source implementation of .NET, what is the point of that? less that 30% of the framework has been standardised by a openstandards body.
Lets flip over to Java. SUN created a standards board of its own, JCP, where by each company who participates in the Java market has one vote.
The JCP is a fully democratic body which moves the Java standard forward. Unlike .NET, java is formed by a community not by a dictatorship so there for, unlike .NET, there won’t be weird and obscure proprietary extensions being included that are undocumented.
.NET is good for everyone who uses Java. Why, simply because it puts preassure on Java to evolve into the better. It’s the same as with Linux, it puts preassure on Windows to perform better. So even if you don’t use a product be thankful that it is part of your platforms evolution!
I don’t care for either .Net or Java, however if I was forced to choose, than I would use Java.
I’m more interested in system implementation rather than leveraging middleware in order to build solutions. It appears that solution implementation is going to rely heavily on tools.
I wouldn’t mind totally avoiding vendor specialization, because along with the heavy price tag you are forced to become totally dependant upon the vendors research and development which is all closed implementaton and therefore, you have no control, no knowledge about system implementation because the entire platform becomes a product.
It’s actually quite laughable at how little people actually know about .NET in these forums. The first poster states that he basically thinks .NET is crap since he uses it everyday, yet gives no reasons as to why he thinks so. I bet you anything his gripes will be about some feature of VS.NET that he dislikes.
Give up man. I’ve tried for months to get poeple to read up on the technology. The simple truth is that most of the posts on .NET are from open source zealots who only come here to bash proprietary companies work.
When OSNews became more popular, the comments stopped being about the techincal merits of systems and are now focused mostly on free software…..errrm….political promotion.
I think you need to learn how to read skc2. I also don’t appreciate your throwing up a straw man version of me and then berating it to make yourself look somewhat intelligent.
Two inaccuracies that you stated were that I said .NET was crap, and that I’m too stupid to know the difference between .NET and the IDE. Both are blatant inaccuracies invented in the shallow recesses of your imagination.
I never once said .NET was crap. In fact, I said it was good. What I did say is that it doesn’t have any amazing features over and above what are available in other technologies. Nothing. I would be happy to give you examples of any amazing features that would make somebody want to switch, but there just aren’t any. The .NET and Java technologies are comparable. The only place where Java has an edge, I think, is in supported architectures. .NET loses there. Other than that, I can basically do anything with Java that I can do with .NET and vice versa.
Therefore, what incentives exist to intice companies away from Java and to .NET? This is a very expensive process and must provide some extraordinary benefit. Right now, .NET doesn’t provide anything to entice or justify a switch in my opinion. That was the only point I was trying to make. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?
I’ve heard the pro .NET discussions, but none have ever answered the question I’ve posed here (which is not a technical question, but a business and financial question).
It has nothing to do with being a zealot. It is a simply a question of justification. If you are currently running J2EE and have a staff of Java developers, what exists in .NET that would make you want fork over the money to retrain all your developers, invest in new development tools and compilers, re-write a lot, if not all, of your code, etc.? Having used both technologies extensively, I just don’t see any benefit to switching.
Instead of labeling everyone who doesn’t agree with you a “zealot”, why not post some hard facts as to why .NET is superior to Java (or any other technology) and why a switch, and all the costs associated with it, is justified?
Okay, skc2, you were right. I am an idiot. Somehow I managed to get your selected OSNews name in place of mine. Forget all I said, you were right, I’m a dork.
Actually I’ve been looking at J2EE. Anyone have any thoughts on it? Something good to know?