Home > Mandriva, Mandrake, Lycoris > Lycoris: No SCO Fees Here Lycoris: No SCO Fees Here Guest post by Tacarat 2003-08-08 Mandriva, Mandrake, Lycoris 34 Comments Back when Lycoris was still Redmond Linux, they licensed their source code off of SCO’s Caldera Open Linux. According to Lycoris, that license is going to insulate them and their users from SCO’s licensing fee requirements. 34 Comments 2003-08-08 5:23 pm they’ll be able to sue SCO for fraud when SCO loses its case. Basically they’ll have paid SCO to license absolutely nothing. 2003-08-08 5:27 pm they’ll be able to sue SCO for fraud when SCO loses its case. Basically they’ll have paid SCO to license absolutely nothing. They licensed code for the ENTIRE SCO/Caldera OpenLinux distro, so actually they did license something. Much like Lindows licensed the Xandros distro as the basis for their Lindows OS. No foul play here, just standard business stuff. 2003-08-08 5:29 pm If Lycoris is correct, who’s to say SCO will not double back and ask for licence fees anyway. They alreadly openly discredit the GPL’s claim on their source even though their source is found in their own GPL’ed distribution. Looking at all the chatter that’s coming out of SCO, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if they pulled something like that. Legal or not. 2003-08-08 5:40 pm Hold on, the only way Lycoris can legally distribute the Linux kernel to their customers is completely under the GPL. It’s either all GPL and everyone, not just their customers, are insulated from SCO’s fees, or else Lycoris doesn’t have the right to distribute the kernel since it contains non-GPL code. We heard similar statements from Lindows.com and SuSE a while back, but nothing more since. 2003-08-08 5:46 pm If Lycoris is free from the SCO tax, then since the licence is GPL, by inductive reasoning, it follows that every other Linux user / disctributor is free of the tax. 2003-08-08 5:59 pm And if Redhat says it’ll protect its Enterprise Customers, all Linux users will be protected! That’s it! Depending on the license, Lycoris probably has the rights to distribute the tech in SCO/Caldera OpenLinux, which should insulate them. That’s it. The GPL provides nothing in this case. However, I want to believe that the GPL does screw SCO over because the have been (and still are) distributing the Linux 2.4 Kernel. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/32233.html 2003-08-08 6:11 pm Lycoris and Lindows should be expelled from the Linux community for assisting SCO in the spread of FUD. They are no better than Sun. By claiming immunity through prior agreements with SCO, they do little more than lend credence to the claims. It also displays their fundamental lack of understanding when it comes to the GPL and the Linux developer community at large. 2003-08-08 6:16 pm We do not want to see a legal Linux… Linux is bad for the software industry. As a Windows XP user, I’m looking forward to the latest microsoft technologies like .net, DRM, and windows media player. I don’t understand why anyone would want to use Mac or Linux, Windows XP is so good already! I mean Bill Gates is a true genius. Windows XP: the OS of the future. 2003-08-08 6:18 pm Clearly SCO will have to sue itself for illegally giving away to Lycoris its own intellectual property. 2003-08-08 6:31 pm “Anyone can still download the source to Caldera OpenLinux today and modify it as we have done under the terms of SCO’s own freely distributable license,” Sounds to me like SCO shot itself in the foot, because this means that no matter what the outcome of the IBM SCO affair, the kernel lives on. 2003-08-08 6:50 pm >>> We do not want to see a legal Linux… Linux is bad for the software industry. As a Windows XP user, I’m looking forward to the latest microsoft technologies like .net, DRM, and windows media player. I don’t understand why anyone would want to use Mac or Linux, Windows XP is so good already! I mean Bill Gates is a true genius. Windows XP: the OS of the future. <<< Thank god for opinions. But not everyone feels the same way. Plus not everyone works in the same way you do so other platforms may actually work better for someone else than it does for you. Claiming Mr. Gates as a genius maybe your view but I certainly don’t think so. He’s managed to get where’s he’s at by being a shrewd buisness man and lucked out at a time where OS’s were still rather young. If he were to start fresh now, I would think he wouldn’t end up in the same position as he is now. I like competition. Keeps everyone on their toes and ‘hopefully’ honest. Which doesn’t always happen looking at the past. But options are always welcome. I’m looking forward to the day when Linux becomes a very solid alternative. Even if everything goes SCO’s way, it would probably end up being a few months to a year for all those contended sections of code get replaced with something equally good so Linux will perservere. At least that’s how I see it. But my magic eight-ball doesn’t see SCO winning this case. 2003-08-08 6:50 pm that license is going to insulate them and their users from SCO’s licensing fee requirements. That’s of course assuming that Sco is correct, and that GNU licensing, IBM, and dozens of Linux companies and legal analysts are all incorrect of course. Hahahaaa…. Idiots. They should have prefaced it with something like “We don’t believe that Sco has a case in the first place, but if their case is proven to be justified, then our previous contract automatically shields us from their requested licensing requirements”. The way they decided to word it not only lends credence to Sco’s claims, but it also lowers Lycoris in the eyes of the rest of the Linux world (if that’s possible. Most of what I see about Lycoris makes me think “Lindows wannabe” anyway). Ah well… A world without another Windows copycat Linux distribution would be nice anway, so hopefully this will drive a few more nails into Lycoris’s coffin. If a Linux distro wants to be Windows, they should just package the way-cool XPde as their Window Manager rather than try and “fake it” with stolen icons and gaudy window decorations. My opinion… 2003-08-08 6:53 pm While I agree with the sentiment expressed in the title of your post, I find it funny that you call Windows XP the OS of the future. It might be the OS of “now”, but future bound it ain’t! Longhorn’s already on the way, and soon WinXP will be the Windows 95 of the future. Hell… XP’s been out what? 3+ years now? Long enough so that it’s old news. Just get your 1st PC did you? 8) 2003-08-08 7:07 pm I’ve seen a lot of Lycoris bashing on this already and I for one do not want to see them go out of bussines. For starters, Lycoris originally licensed there technology from Caldera not SCO. Caldera was run by whole different group of people and made a lot of positive contributions to Linux. Also don’t point the finger at Lycoris for spreading the FUD, they are just making the best out of a situation that they could have had no way of predicting. They might of licensed code from Red Hat, but they chose Caldera and it just happens that Caldera became the root of all evil. 2003-08-08 7:14 pm [quote] SCO stopped selling Linux in May. Stowell admitted that his company was still providing Linux source code and security patches on its Web site in order to fulfill support contracts with customers, but he disputed Kuhn’s claim. “If our IP [intellectual property] is being found in Linux and that’s being done without our say, then I don’t think that the GPL can force us not to collect license fees from someone who may be using our intellectual property,” he said. [/quote] This is why IBM stays quiet (comments cant be used against them). If the GPL sticks in a court of law as a valid licence then its over for SCO. From the above quote SCO is aware that they are distributing Linux. Oh Oh. The GPL explicitly says you can not add incompatible licenses on top of the GPL. That is if you cant satisfy both the GPL and other obligations the only alternative is not to distribute at all. So they should pull those source files from their ftp server…Oh wait! what about the support CONTRACTS? hmmm…Pull the source and be in breach of the support contracts (could be sued) or leave them on their site and be in breach of the GPL (could be sued by everyone else). What to do , oh what to do … 2003-08-08 7:59 pm Just let me reiterate that Windows XP is great. Today I discovered MSN messenger, and I can actually talk to my friends through my computer! I mean, WOW!!! I bet you Linux geeks don’t have that. Windows Media Player is really cool too, I can listen to music!!! I hope crappy command line OS is made illegal!!! 2003-08-08 8:02 pm Well, Coocoocachoo is right. All trolls have broadband. Amazing really. 2003-08-08 8:07 pm hmmm…Pull the source and be in breach of the support contracts (could be sued) or leave them on their site and be in breach of the GPL (could be sued by everyone else). What to do , oh what to do … I dunno, maybe take the source off a public ftp site and move it to a private one? Maybe SCO should have kept a few techs around instead of firing them. 2003-08-08 8:12 pm There are no license requirement and there will never be one. What’s wrong with you people! 2003-08-08 8:13 pm Sarcasm bites, yet some people don’t know sarcasm even if it comes and bites them in the butt. 2003-08-08 8:18 pm Just let me reiterate that Windows XP is great. Today I discovered MSN messenger, and I can actually talk to my friends through my computer! I mean, WOW!!! I bet you Linux geeks don’t have that. Windows Media Player is really cool too, I can listen to music!!! I hope crappy command line OS is made illegal!!! <translation> Just let me repeat, I have no friends, and my parents just bought me this new computer so that I have something to do, rather than spend time with me themselves. Wow… All of these new people to meet on MSN who’ve never heard of me or know that I have no friends in real life! I mean WOW!!! I bet you Linux geeks are too busy talking about computer stuff beyond my knowledge to really deal with the likes of me, and since I’m so hard up for attention, I’ll just pester someone until I’m acknowledged (I’d rather have had my parents acknowledge to me than buy me this crappy Windows XP system when you get right down to it anyway!), . As anyone with a 12 year old knows, we kids will do anything for attention. Good, Bad, we don’t care. It’s still attention. Windows Media Play is really cool too, I can listen to music (to drown out the silence that is my life alone in my room). I hope crappy command line OS is made illegal (whatever that is)! See me?? Over here??? Me!! Hello? </translation> 2003-08-08 8:29 pm “I dunno, maybe take the source off a public ftp site and move it to a private one? ” Nope .. would still breach GPL .. you either have to distribute to all or to none (or more accurately the GPL doesnt force you to distribute to all. SCO could legally only distribute to their support contract people but could not prevent those contract people from distributing the source code to anyone they like. GPL transfers grants those rights to the receiver). 2003-08-08 8:59 pm gAIM for Linux = MSN Messenger, ICQ, AOL Instant Messenger, Yahoo pager, all in one Mplayer for Linux = Windows Media Player, RealPlayer, QuickTime player and web plugin, all in one Nice try, troll. Linux win on all counts here. Oh, and you can start those programs by clicking purdy icons, too! 2003-08-08 9:26 pm i think windows xp is pretty good too. but i still think you are a sniveling little wuss. 2003-08-08 9:35 pm All Linux users are already “insulated” from extortion, at least those who aren’t too wussy to simply say no to criminal tactics, legal or not. 2003-08-08 11:51 pm Remember copyright law regards copies. It rejects the notion of a platonic ideal form of the code which exists abstractly apart from an actual representation in media. So the following is possible A has code B licenses the code from A under the GPL C steals the same code from A D gets his code from B under the GPL E gets his code from C A sues E for not having a licensed version of the code and wins. Always remember copyright law applies to copies. So in particular Hold on, the only way Lycoris can legally distribute the Linux kernel to their customers is completely under the GPL. It’s either all GPL and everyone, not just their customers, are insulated from SCO’s fees, or else Lycoris doesn’t have the right to distribute the kernel since it contains non-GPL code. This is incorrect. Lycoris can distribute copies and the people who got their copies from them (directly or indirectly) did so under the GPL…. Similarly If Lycoris is free from the SCO tax, then since the licence is GPL, by inductive reasoning, it follows that every other Linux user / disctributor is free of the tax Is false since really the GPL would assert that they could become free by getting 2003-08-08 11:57 pm Actually I think he is a linux geek trolling. The comments are too clearly a parody of what all of us Linux users think the lowest level windows wimp is like. I guess he wanted to bring out all the good reasons why Linux is as good and better than windows that have just been put forward. 2003-08-09 12:37 am Actually, are you aware that you do NOT need a license to use copyrighted material. I know a guy here in Cape Town who was selling computers preloaded with illegal software, and he was caught. They did not and do not go for users. A user does not violate copyright by using software which a part of he could not know about was copied illegally. Copyright law does NOT apply to copies, it applies to ‘the right to copy’, which is why the two words are put together. Having a copy is not the same as making a copy. If you MAKE a copy, then you are liable for copyright infringement. You obviously have a not very good understanding of copyright law, or law in general. 2003-08-09 4:28 am hahahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahaha I thought it was quite funny. Sarcasm…a lost form of art on some people…. Lighten up. Lycoris rules. Lycoris started the whole desktop linux craze that spawned the likes of lindos, xandros, red hat 8, etc. I mention red hat 8 because they basicaly ignored the desktop as an important part of the linux market until v8. If it wasn’t for Joe Cheek and his small but effective staff, linux on the home desktop would not even be close to where it is now. Joe Cheek is one of the pioneers to the current desktop push…don’t dare knock him for it. Just because Lycoris isn’t a bloated whore of a distro like mandrake doesn’t mean it’s not good, or that it should be knocked out of the market. Lycoris is freeley downloadable to all, and they’re one of the good guys. Don’t forget it. 2003-08-09 8:13 am The last thing they want to do is help SCO/Caldera. They are reassuring there users that they are “safe”. 2003-08-09 12:00 pm If it wasn’t for Joe Cheek and his small but effective staff, linux on the home desktop would not even be close to where it is now. Joe Cheek is one of the pioneers to the current desktop push…don’t dare knock him for it. Bang on. Joe darn near invented desktop Linux as it is today. Just because Lycoris isn’t a bloated whore of a distro like mandrake doesn’t mean it’s not good, or that it should be knocked out of the market. Be nice to Mandrake. It’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but it’s no better, and certainly no worse, than most other distros fundamentally speaking. 2003-08-09 1:54 pm By what Lycoris has written I’m pretty sure they are actually talking about the GPL here. By saying “Anyone can still download the source to Caldera OpenLinux today and modify it as we have done under the terms of SCO’s own freely distributable license” clearly seems to me that the GPL is the licence they are talking about. 2003-08-09 7:01 pm What Lycoris is saying is that since Lycoris is based on Caldera, they were granted their GPL directly from SCO. Since SCO has said that users of their linux distro are protected from prosecution this includes Lycoris who under the licence sco granted them distributed to their customers. 2003-08-10 8:44 pm IF Linux si knocked out, why not use a another kernel like HURD. Killing the linux kernel is not enogh to kill GNU. But off course the chances of SCO making this a reality is very slim.