Step 1: Ignore Microsoft’s main example, IBuySpy. Everything I’ve seen in its design, and most of what I’ve heard in newsgroups and mailing lists about its design, is it’s a horrible example. Being their first and biggest example it should have shined. Instead of a sampling of best practices it looks like someone’s very first attempt at an ASP.NET application.
Step 2: Take any other examples, such as this one, with a huge grain of salt. With a few exceptions their publications on software design are below average. There are a few MS authors worth paying attention to if doing MS coding, but otherwise any good general writings are best. This document, for example, speaks of the usual three-tier design but with the assumption that no tier will ever change platforms (of course, since they’re each MS platforms).
I know PHP, ASP, and ASP.NET. There’s no question in my mind that PHP is a vastly superior technology to ASP, and both are vastly inferior to ASP.NET.
Why? Because ASP.NET is not an embedded-in-the-page scripting technology like the first two. (Although of course it’s possible to do so if you wish.) Instead, ASP.NET represents the objects in the page (buttons, forms, etc.) as actual server-side objects, with methods, properties, and events. It’s a very different paradigm from ASP and PHP.
Look, I’m not crazy about being tied to Microsoft either — I’m typing this on a 12″ PowerBook G4 — but once I started using ASP.NET (and ADO.NET) at work I was sold. It’s so superior to PHP that I find it almost painful to write PHP.
Now if Microsoft could only make IIS as nice as Apache. What I really want to see is Ximian Mono’s ASP.NET running on Apache on Mac OS X. Then I’ll be a happy camper.
Don’t knock ASP.NET just because it’s Microsoft. It’s a brilliant technology.
IIRC, the PowerPC JIT is just around the corner, meaning, expect anytime soon asp.net being made available on MacOS X.
Regarding ASP.NET, who cares if it is a MS idea? ultimately, if Mono stays on track we could have TWO competing ASP.NET implemtations, meaning, both the OSS community and Microsoft will be pushing each other along to get to the developer community on board.
MS already has Rotor (1.0 Framework version only I believe) for Mac OSX and FreeBSD but it just supports C# and J# though. Didn’t sound like something you’d be able to use in a production environment, more of an academic thing.
i don’t say OSNews should not post news on asp.net article news (although i cannot understand why it should make news from asp.net articles.). i say, this is unimportant news, since of course there will be many articles on these subjects, and many .net sites already list them. there are surely many java articles published by every week too.
but, osnews DON’T post news on JAVA related new articles published by Sun and IBM and Oracle and Apache and JBoss etc. osnews always claims that they are not taking sides on .net versus java discussions. so WHY are they posting at least two unimportant .net news every week? to make it look popular?
i am saying that this site IS taking side by behaving like this. they should post both .net and java news OR they should NOT post any news about .net or java.
MS already has Rotor (1.0 Framework version only I believe) for Mac OSX and FreeBSD but it just supports C# and J# though. Didn’t sound like something you’d be able to use in a production environment, more of an academic thing.
Rotor is a completely and unusualable piece of shit. What I was refering to is mono which is going to be a FULL implementation of .NET not just the ECMA crap, aka, lip service to people who want .net to be openstandardised.
I can’t believe people actually believe that Rotor is a full implementation of .NET. Are people here THAT stupid?
I can’t believe people actually believe that Rotor is a full implementation of .NET. Are people here THAT stupid?
Nope mate, just you, just you… do you see any reference to rotor being a full implementation in the quote:
MS already has Rotor (1.0 Framework version only I believe) for Mac OSX and FreeBSD but it just supports C# and J# though. Didn’t sound like something you’d be able to use in a production environment, more of an academic thing.
In response to CroanoN, yes this place tends to be a tad on the pro .NET news side compared to Java news, but you have to keep in mind that not alot of news happens on the java platform these days… jdk1.5.0 is in dev, but thats about it, wait till its released, im sure there will be alot more news around that here then… posting redundant news about nothing of interrest is just not a good hitcounter…
Hey, CroanoN, in the month of August, OSNews has posted three stories about Java, one about both Java and .NET, and one about .NET. Back when Java was still new and people still needed an inroduction to it, we posted a lot of articles (some by Sun) about it. I believe that these articles are on-topic becasue Java and .NET are sort of like OSes for the web platform. When there’s an opportunity to educate people about something new with Java, we’ll post it. Please feel free to use our submission form.
Not the same thing. The proper analogy to ASP.NET in the Java world is JSP. There are some strong similarities between ASP.NET and JSP, and there’s no question that JSP is the inspiration for ASP.NET, just as Java was the inspiration for C#.
But just as I think many (but not all) aspects of C# and the .NET Framework are superior to Java (because they had the opportunity to learn from Java’s well-known mistakes), the same holds true for ASP.NET versus JSP. ASP.NET is much richer technology than JSP.
Yes, don’t waste your breath. CooCooCaChoo is quite the troll, and loves to take folks’ comments out of context and attempt to twist them to fit his agenda. And he must always make it a personal attack too, no its not good enough to just attempt to correct someone (although he’s usually in the wrong), he must say “OMFG U R TEH STOOPDI!!! LOLO LOLO!!!”. OSnews would be a much better place without him.
Step 1: Ignore Microsoft’s main example, IBuySpy. Everything I’ve seen in its design, and most of what I’ve heard in newsgroups and mailing lists about its design, is it’s a horrible example. Being their first and biggest example it should have shined. Instead of a sampling of best practices it looks like someone’s very first attempt at an ASP.NET application.
Step 2: Take any other examples, such as this one, with a huge grain of salt. With a few exceptions their publications on software design are below average. There are a few MS authors worth paying attention to if doing MS coding, but otherwise any good general writings are best. This document, for example, speaks of the usual three-tier design but with the assumption that no tier will ever change platforms (of course, since they’re each MS platforms).
Use PHP.
Don’t use PHP.
I know PHP, ASP, and ASP.NET. There’s no question in my mind that PHP is a vastly superior technology to ASP, and both are vastly inferior to ASP.NET.
Why? Because ASP.NET is not an embedded-in-the-page scripting technology like the first two. (Although of course it’s possible to do so if you wish.) Instead, ASP.NET represents the objects in the page (buttons, forms, etc.) as actual server-side objects, with methods, properties, and events. It’s a very different paradigm from ASP and PHP.
Look, I’m not crazy about being tied to Microsoft either — I’m typing this on a 12″ PowerBook G4 — but once I started using ASP.NET (and ADO.NET) at work I was sold. It’s so superior to PHP that I find it almost painful to write PHP.
Now if Microsoft could only make IIS as nice as Apache. What I really want to see is Ximian Mono’s ASP.NET running on Apache on Mac OS X. Then I’ll be a happy camper.
Don’t knock ASP.NET just because it’s Microsoft. It’s a brilliant technology.
IIRC, the PowerPC JIT is just around the corner, meaning, expect anytime soon asp.net being made available on MacOS X.
Regarding ASP.NET, who cares if it is a MS idea? ultimately, if Mono stays on track we could have TWO competing ASP.NET implemtations, meaning, both the OSS community and Microsoft will be pushing each other along to get to the developer community on board.
You want objects? Use Java.
Want to stay on topic, don’t bring in Java. The only part of java that *could* be valid would be a JSP vs ASP.NET comparison.
Use Zope. Period. (http://www.zope.org)
Why MS publishing articles about .NET is becoming a news here?
IBM, Sun, and many other big companies are publishing Java articles every week. Why don’t you make news from it also? This is clearly taking side.
Why do you take .NET side? Is it because you are getting money from MS marketing? Or is it because Miguel de Icaza is your friend?
Why do you care?
I’m getting sick of people like you coming on here posting BS like this, CroanoN.
@CooCooCaChoo
MS already has Rotor (1.0 Framework version only I believe) for Mac OSX and FreeBSD but it just supports C# and J# though. Didn’t sound like something you’d be able to use in a production environment, more of an academic thing.
I’d rather read ASP.NET articles all day long than reading any of your posts. Go away or stop posting zealous crap.
i don’t say OSNews should not post news on asp.net article news (although i cannot understand why it should make news from asp.net articles.). i say, this is unimportant news, since of course there will be many articles on these subjects, and many .net sites already list them. there are surely many java articles published by every week too.
but, osnews DON’T post news on JAVA related new articles published by Sun and IBM and Oracle and Apache and JBoss etc. osnews always claims that they are not taking sides on .net versus java discussions. so WHY are they posting at least two unimportant .net news every week? to make it look popular?
i am saying that this site IS taking side by behaving like this. they should post both .net and java news OR they should NOT post any news about .net or java.
MS already has Rotor (1.0 Framework version only I believe) for Mac OSX and FreeBSD but it just supports C# and J# though. Didn’t sound like something you’d be able to use in a production environment, more of an academic thing.
Rotor is a completely and unusualable piece of shit. What I was refering to is mono which is going to be a FULL implementation of .NET not just the ECMA crap, aka, lip service to people who want .net to be openstandardised.
I can’t believe people actually believe that Rotor is a full implementation of .NET. Are people here THAT stupid?
I can’t believe people actually believe that Rotor is a full implementation of .NET. Are people here THAT stupid?
Nope mate, just you, just you… do you see any reference to rotor being a full implementation in the quote:
MS already has Rotor (1.0 Framework version only I believe) for Mac OSX and FreeBSD but it just supports C# and J# though. Didn’t sound like something you’d be able to use in a production environment, more of an academic thing.
In response to CroanoN, yes this place tends to be a tad on the pro .NET news side compared to Java news, but you have to keep in mind that not alot of news happens on the java platform these days… jdk1.5.0 is in dev, but thats about it, wait till its released, im sure there will be alot more news around that here then… posting redundant news about nothing of interrest is just not a good hitcounter…
stay real, and Java for ever!
Hey, CroanoN, in the month of August, OSNews has posted three stories about Java, one about both Java and .NET, and one about .NET. Back when Java was still new and people still needed an inroduction to it, we posted a lot of articles (some by Sun) about it. I believe that these articles are on-topic becasue Java and .NET are sort of like OSes for the web platform. When there’s an opportunity to educate people about something new with Java, we’ll post it. Please feel free to use our submission form.
do you claim .net is new? its been 2 years.
i will post minimum 3 articles news about java every week. lets see if you will post it. –: )
cheers.
2 years isn’t much time. Many developers are still writing COM based software.
.NET is still very new to many people.
@ CooCooCaChoo
If you read my post then you would see that I said Rotor wasn’t a full implementation.
@ other people
Looking forward to Mono.
Not the same thing. The proper analogy to ASP.NET in the Java world is JSP. There are some strong similarities between ASP.NET and JSP, and there’s no question that JSP is the inspiration for ASP.NET, just as Java was the inspiration for C#.
But just as I think many (but not all) aspects of C# and the .NET Framework are superior to Java (because they had the opportunity to learn from Java’s well-known mistakes), the same holds true for ASP.NET versus JSP. ASP.NET is much richer technology than JSP.
We are talking about ASP.NET which Rotor does not support. Why even bring up the issue?
Why even be a jerk by calling me stupid when I obviously knew already? I’m done posting on this topic. Have a nice day.
Yes, don’t waste your breath. CooCooCaChoo is quite the troll, and loves to take folks’ comments out of context and attempt to twist them to fit his agenda. And he must always make it a personal attack too, no its not good enough to just attempt to correct someone (although he’s usually in the wrong), he must say “OMFG U R TEH STOOPDI!!! LOLO LOLO!!!”. OSnews would be a much better place without him.