Home > Gnome > Gnome 2.4 Beta Released Gnome 2.4 Beta Released Submitted by dabooty 2003-08-17 Gnome 53 Comments Gnome 2.4 beta has been announced. The GNOME Desktop 2.4 Beta 1: “Jelme”, is available for immediate download on ftp.gnome.org and mirrors. About The Author David Adams Follow me on Twitter @david_adams 53 Comments 2003-08-17 11:33 pm Gentoo ebuilds are available from breakmygentoo.net… /me can’t wait to be using Gnome 2.4 Seriously good software. 2003-08-18 12:13 am Very good. The best. Really… Now could someone stop the waste of time and energy that OpenBSD (as the inferior software it is) represents and redirect this effort towards GNU/Linux, so that maybe one day, the “Linux on the desktop” thing might become a reality? wow, look… it’s a recycle-able troll!! just copy and paste and it works for just about anything… probably because it doesnt require the specifics involved in explaining yourself. But seriously now, different strokes for different folks. You’re acting as if developing gnome somehow takes away from kde development… while this couldnt be further from the truth. Work on either desktop environment can only aide the other by giving people ideas with a working reference code base to peek at. This also allows any re-implementation to learn from the previous mistakes. Now… this news entry has nothing to do with KDE so lets keep the trolling and holy wars to a minimum please? thanks. 2003-08-18 12:18 am Man. I really love the fact that they have an “always buildable” CVS policy and the like. The fact that 2.3 has been relatively stable throughout it’s development speaks volumes about the maturity and management of the gnome project. I do wish for a new file dialog in gtk2 tho… 2003-08-18 12:30 am That such good news is met with such trolling. To the Gnome team, you guys rock, my desktop has never been nicer due to your efforts. To the trolls, go elsewhere, we don’t want you here. To OSnews.com – been a longtime fan, wish we had a cleaner implementation of mod status for messages to keep teh trolls down, as they are starting to get louder and louder these days. 2003-08-18 12:35 am I love gnome! This is the desktop of my choice. I installed it on my grandmother’s computer and she seems to like it. Another cool app that I like that I hope will make it to gnome 2.4 is gnome summarizer , available under http://libots.sf.net 2003-08-18 1:16 am Different GUIs is not a waste of time. Different people have different tastes. Some like Gnome, others like KDE and yet some, prefer something else. The problem in free desktop environments today, isn’t that there are too many of them, but that they do not interoperate well enough. If you run a Gnome application in KDE it should look and behave like all the rest of your KDE applications. If you run a KDE application in Gnome it should assume a Gnome look & feel. At least as much as possible. One way to move towards such a goal would be to share configuration files as much as possible. This could be configuration for colors, menus, fonts that most systems have in common. Another thing that can be done wihtout sacrificeing the different look and feel of each GUI environment, is to have similar directory structures. E.g. bookmarks, wastebasket contens, mail etc could be stored in the same location. Thus it is very welcome that Gnome 2.4 as well as KDE use the same location for desktop contents. We could also try to standardize services that have no GUI components. I’m thinking of things like sound servers. There is lilltle reason for KDE and Gnome to handle sound differently at that level. 2003-08-18 1:17 am I’ve tested it too and i like the improvements. Nautilus again became more usable, the new panel philosophy is just what i wanted and things like themes:/// and fonts:/// really make it easier to use the desktop. You now can also select the screen resolution and refresh rate without stopping X server. The Acessibilty for people who have disadvatages is again more improved. Also i like the new GDM, which has now the Face Selector ™ also available within graphical greeter. What do you want more? Not to talk about the speed improvements … 2003-08-18 1:43 am I absolutely agree with you. I am a long time gnome user and am currently running gnome beta myself (mad props to the gnome team i love the desktop). Thanks for the insite and restraing Uno… at times its lacking in forums such as this… 2003-08-18 1:50 am Yes, I agree. The file selection dialog could really be improved. Hate to sound like a KDE troll, but it would be great if Gnome 2.6 could do something similar to the file selector in KDE 3.1. In my oppinion this fildialog is the best there is. Better than windows and better than MacOS. What I particularly like in the current KDE file selector is that you can bookmark places for fast access to to diffent places in the file system, ftp-, http- or sftp servers. I can also have win2k-like shortcut buttons that can be application specific or system specific. I also like that you can navigate the dialog by writing files and folder names and when doing so, get help by autocompletion. In short it simply rocks! One other advantage of having similar file selection dialogs would be that it would be easier to mix KDE and Gnome apps on the same desktop. Most other features of Gnome as well as KDE can be changed to get a consistent looking desktop regardless if you run Gnome or KDE as your main desktop should be a step closer. 2003-08-18 2:00 am If you would kindly write up your opinions on why Gnome sucks, with some nice screenshots, examples, and some evidence, and send it in, I’m sure that OSnews will post it, and provide you with the outlet for you to really spout off while being on topic. I think that this is good news, I’ve been using gnome almost exclusively since gnome 2 lured me back from using fluxbox, and I really want some of the new features in nautilus, gedit, and the applets, that I saw in the preview recently. I’ve used KDE 3.1 recently, and it did seem pretty nice, but not quite good enough to get me to abandon Dropline, really no problems with it, other than some problems of look, feel, application integration (the gimp, moz and gaim just didn’t look right) and speed (mainly the fault of my old hardware). 2003-08-18 2:06 am Yeah, everybody (and their dogs) is wishing for a new file selector. I though this would be featuring in Gnome 2.4, but i guess it’ll only be available on Gnome 2.6. The thing is that the file selection is not part of Gnome exactly. It’s part of GTK. I was taking a look at http://people.redhat.com/otaylor/fosdem2003/file-selector.html“>… , where it explains why it’s not easy to make changes to the file selector: —– quote: The principle reason for the lack of incremental improvement in this area is was a design mistake in the old file selector: many of the details of the implementation of the file selector were exposed to applications. Applications directly dug into the internals of the file selector to pack in additional widgets, and even to hide or rearrange the standard elements. In fact, they had good reason to do this, because there was no standard way of achieving such common things as adding a preview widget or selecting entire directories instead of individual files. But because of this, it’s never been possible to make any significant change to the file selector without causing compatibility problems. So, for the upcoming 2.4 release, the plan is to create an entirely new file selection widget from scratch and ship it along side the existing GtkFileSelection. The existing file selection widget will be deprecated, and at some future point when we do a ABI-incompatible release, removed. —– end quote Victor. 2003-08-18 2:08 am Gah, this is so horrible. I’m a KDE user myself, I’d even call myself a ‘fan’ of the project. At the same time, I have a lot of respect for the Gnome project – it’s simply awesome software. And it’s free and open! What these trolls are doing here is simply extremely childish and very embarassing. Guys, if you prefer KDE to Gnome, state that calmly and present some arguments. Trolling doesn’t help KDE.org. KDE.org doesn’t need or want an army of trolls that destroys every Gnome thread on OSNews. Same goes for Gnome trolls in KDE threads, of course. I beg the moderators to do something about this madness – mod troll posts down vigorously. 2003-08-18 2:15 am i don’t use gnome much,if any. i prefer kde. i am a recent linux convert. but my favorite browser is ephinay by far. 2003-08-18 2:16 am Thank you for being quick about the moderation this time. Kudos to the OSNews staff. Can’t wait until 2.4 makes it into Sid. I wasn’t very happy with Gnome 2.0, but aside from a few minor things, I’ve been pretty happy with 2.2. Even the file selector doesn’t bother me since Sid has the Ximian patched version. Still, looking forward to a more functional file selector in Gnome 2.6 / GTK 2.4. Good job Gnome developers. 2003-08-18 2:26 am Yes, and if you want to make comments about the trolls, please seperate them from your on topic comments, so that the troll comments can be modded down fully. 2003-08-18 3:45 am …I have to say that I’m sick of the KDE/Gnome war. You can mod this down as off-topic, but I just wanted to congratulate the Gnome team for a job well done (well, for a beta release… 😉 Gnome is a fabulous DE, and even though my personal preferences tend towards another well-known DE, I also administer a Gnome installation at my apartment, for my roommate. Both KDE and Gnome are great, and the healthy competition between the two keeps development to a brisk pace – which is good for users of either DEs. My only gripe with Gnome is the installation process through rpm/urpmi. While KDE has a relatively short list of packages, all easily identifiable (kdebase, kdeutils, etc.), Gnome has a much longer list of related packages and I sometimes forget to update a couple, resulting in some investigating to get the thing working. I know about Garnome, but it seems to be for unstable releases only, and I’d really like something that kept within the rpm database…anyone got any pointers? 2003-08-18 7:09 am I’m not certain were the problem is. Once you have urpmi set up properly, then a urpmi.update -a followed by a urpmi –auto-select should grab everything you need. It will take awhile (true of both desktops), even on broadband. 2003-08-18 7:23 am Yes, thats what I need! GNOME released the first Beta of the GNOME DE, which makes me realy happy 😉 And there, thanks to everyone, is no trolling and bashing about GNOME vs. KDE vs. Rest, yet! Keep going that way! Lets make better Software, not (flame)war! just my 2€ H.a.n.d. Golum at work dot ork 2003-08-18 7:39 am (i have posted this in the previous gnome thread, but it got flooded with trolls so i’ll try to repost it here, feel free to mod this eug. if you feel this is inappropriate, i will accept any moderation these days as osnews needs it) i have been using the gnome current tarballs from breakmygentoo for a while and the things i like about the new gnome are these – huge cleanup in dialogs, about boxes etc – multi tree view in nautilus, it’s just great to finally have it – speed improvements. though they are not huge, folders load faster, gtk overall feels faster (though not that much) – nautilus has improved, the nautilus cd-burner is in place (i hope it burns music cd’s in 2.4) – all gnome components have undergone HIG-ification, which does improve usability a lot. Maybe this doesn’t mean a lot to power users, but to average (and even power users IMO) users knowing what to expect in eg. dialogboxes improves the overall feeling of the system. – HIGification of the menu: gTali has become Tali etc, this IMO getting rid of gAnything in the menu is a good decision, if you don’t you can add to the discussion in their bugzilla – my applet-loaded panel configuration hasn’t crashed or leaked memory on me once – the desktop allows to keep the icons aligned by right clicking on it – there are some nice new features in various places Overall: I don’t feel this gnome release is so much a feature packed release, but it does improve a lot overall on little things that make using it a lot nicer. It’s very hard to name that one killer feature they have added, but there are A LOT of little ones to like. Just check the changelog to see the extensive list of improvements 2003-08-18 10:46 am Linux need 1 GUI/API to win the desktop war… 2003-08-18 11:21 am Personally, I like KDE better than Gnome 2.2. Gnome’s look and feel is more professional than that of KDE, it seems, but KDE seems to have more handy features, such as better network-transparency, kio-slaves and kparts. Other than that, I think that Gnome 2.4 can be a huge improvement, epiphany seems to integrate Gecko better than Galeon (which just used an embedded Mozilla widget, which looked rather weird). So if Gnome becomes a bit feature-richer, if it places advanced options under an “Advanced”-button instead of GConf, if I can drop files from Nautilus on a Gaim contact, if Gaim does not send unwanted HTML-codes to ICQ-users, if GStreamer does not crash at startup anymore, if the GTK+2 port of LyX+AbiWord+GNumeric would be finished… then I would consider switching to Gnome. 2003-08-18 11:40 am What desktop war? If you want a preselected desktop and apps – go use Lindows or another newbie / M$ refugee oriented distro. The rich choice of desktops and DE’s is why many of us use linux. I started with fvwm then Widowmaker later Icewm, KDE, Blackbox when it started and have used Xfce, Gnome, fluxbox etc. In the real world not everyone has a P4 to run a DE – what is everyone else going to use in your “1 GUI for everyone” world? Out of curosity to who do you think the desktop war matters: the many developers who have been contributing freely to linux for over 10 years or the suits wanting to increase their profits? IMHO there is room for both the suits and opensource community, just as there is a place and need for the various GUIs. Lets not lock everyone into one vision. 2003-08-18 12:14 pm Perhaps one version of the GUI would speed up adoptation. But many Linux users value the ability to choose. I would say that a somewhat slower adoptation is a price worth paying to have that choice. But anyway, please let programmers use whatever API they know or like to produce their applications. In an ideal world, the apperance of the GUI, and the API producing it, should be two separate things. Think of how an xml file can be transformed into several html pages by applying different xslt styles. Mozill is already heading in this direction with XUL 2003-08-18 12:47 pm Linux is not out to win the “desktop war”. Gnome and KDE are. The OS they are running on doesn’t really matter much, both work as fine on BSD or Solaris as they do on Linux. (Although I think it could still work better on Solaris – the integration in Sol 9 8/03 leaves some things to be desired in comparison with CDE. But I disgress…) 2003-08-18 1:30 pm I just got into using Gnome seriously, and one thing I can’t seem to find is a “Find File” utility like KDE has. I’m sure there’s a command line way of doing it, but lets face it, I use a GUI for a reason. So is there already in existance a GUI tool to find files in Gnome or will there be one? Would be nice to have one built into Nautilus (Gnome’s file manager?) 2003-08-18 1:30 pm Uno Engborg: The problem in free desktop environments today, isn’t that there are too many of them, but that they do not interoperate well enough. If you run a Gnome application in KDE it should look and behave like all the rest of your KDE applications. If you run a KDE application in Gnome it should assume a Gnome look & feel. At least as much as possible. That’s what http://www.freedesktop.org is for. Fortunately, BTW. 2003-08-18 1:49 pm I’m not certain were the problem is. Once you have urpmi set up properly, then a urpmi.update -a followed by a urpmi –auto-select should grab everything you need. Uh, won’t that update everything? Since Gnome will be part of cooker, that would basically install cooker on my system, insuring lots of swearing and downgrading in order to get a system that works… 🙁 Unless you know of an urpmi repository that only has Gnome stuff…actually, that would be cool! 2003-08-18 1:55 pm “I can’t seem to find is a “Find File” utility” Actions -> Search for Files… 2003-08-18 1:56 pm I don’t know of Gnome has a Find File utility “like KDE has,” as I’ve never used KDE’s search tool and thus can’t compare them, but it does have a Find File utility. It’s the gnome-search-tool command, accessible through: Red Hat default install: Red Hat Icon (lower-left hand corner) -> Search for Files… Using the Menu Panel: Actions -> Search for Files… It’s been available since Gnome 2.0, AFAIK, though there have been changes to its interface, for improved usability in Gnome 2.2. 2003-08-18 3:02 pm How exactly is the embedding of Mozilla different between Epiphany and Galeon different? I was under the impression that these were branches of the same codebase. Hence, I think the embedding of Mozilla is handled in the same way. If you are referring to the ugly widgets used for the scroll bars, both Galeon and Epiphany had this problem. I’m not sure if it has been fixed in the default installs, but it is easily fixed. Open Mozilla and change to the “Classic” theme. Close Mozilla and copy its chrome file to the Epiphany/Galeon directories. Open Epiphany/Galeon. The scrollbars should now use the desktop’s GTK2 theme. BTW, I use Galeon, but I agree with the Gnome people that Epiphany is a better default choice for the browser. Epiphany’s goals (simplicity, HIG compliance) are simply more in line with the Gnome project goals. Hopefully, both projects will continue to thrive. Both are quite useable and nice in their own ways. 2003-08-18 3:11 pm You must install gnome-utils. “GNOME Utilities is a collection of small applications all there to make your day just that little bit brighter – System Log Viewer, Search Tool, Dictionary, Floppy Format.” P. 2003-08-18 3:43 pm I have even made a nautilus script that launches the gnome-search-tool in the dir you happen to be browsing through at the time in nautilus. Here it is. #!/bin/sh # # This script opens a gnome-search-tool in the directory you select. # # Distributed under the terms of GNU GPL version 2 or later # # Install in your ~/Nautilus/scripts directory. # You need to be running Nautilus 1.0.3+ to use scripts. cd $NAUTILUS_SCRIPT_CURRENT_URI exec gnome-search-tool Add this to a text file in gedit. Right click and go to properties to set the executable bit on the thing. Right click on Desktop and go to scripts –> Open Scripts Folder. Drag the new script to that folder. 2003-08-18 4:31 pm The superior desktop, XFCE, is for the superior race, the mongoloids. 2003-08-18 5:14 pm yeah, have to agree the file selector is getting embarrassing now. I remember posting on these very forums when 2.2 came out that the file selector would be fixed for 2.4, and doing so in good faith because that’s what all the GNOME dev guys were telling me…and here we are at 2.4 and it still sucks. sigh. still, a good release apart from that… 2003-08-18 5:22 pm OSNEWS AKA GNOME AND MONO ANNOUNCEMENT SITE. this is incredible. osnews is turning into gnome and mono announcement forum or something like that, and all the posts condemning gnome are moderated down. i guess moderator is miguel. –: )))) people should be free to say whatever they want, and they should be free to express their ideas in any way they want, even by trolling etc. there are MORE THAN 10 MODERATED DOWN COMMENTS. my personal opinion: kde rocks, gnome sucks. shame on you osnews. cheers. 2003-08-18 6:27 pm Yes, the file selector sucks. The Ximian version (now in Sid) is improved, but still not great. As has been stated 1000 times before, this is a GTK+ thing, not a Gnome thing. The new file selector (which requires a new API) is coming in GTK+ 2.4 which is coming after Gnome 2.4. It should be in Gnome 2.6. I would like to have an improved file selector now, but I would prefer that they take the time to do it right so we don’t have to revisit it in the future. Patience… 2003-08-18 7:31 pm Since Gnome 2.4 is slated for September and RHX for early next year, I’m hoping Gnome 2.4 makes it into that distro (including Gtk2 2.4 with the new file selector). Things just keep getting better and better. P.S. Kudos to modding down the KDE vs Gnome flamebaits. I actually never saw one, but am glad I didn’t. Going through the comments seemed much lighter to my eyes. 2003-08-18 8:16 pm looking at the packagelist at distrowatch http://www.distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=Red+Hat their rawhide seems to contain the development gnome so i would suppose they are testing it for their next release. it just might 2003-08-18 10:17 pm I would be shocked if RedHat 10 didn’t have Gnome 2.4. The GTK+ site says 2.4 should be released before the end of the year. GTK 2.4 may make it into RedHat 10, but I’ve also read that the new file selection dialog is not API compatible, so applications may need to be converted to use it. If this is true, this would almost certainly not happen for RedHat 10. 2003-08-18 10:59 pm I would be shocked if RedHat 10 didn’t have Gnome 2.4. The GTK+ site says 2.4 should be released before the end of the year. GTK 2.4 may make it into RedHat 10, but I’ve also read that the new file selection dialog is not API compatible, so applications may need to be converted to use it. If this is true, this would almost certainly not happen for RedHat 10. Yes, it is not API compatible… the applications will need to be adapted to new file selector. :/ Victor. 2003-08-18 11:41 pm Linux need Speeeeeeeeeeeeeed.. Now!!… how Windows 2K/XP and BeOS. 2003-08-19 12:27 am Red Hat sucks. XFCE rocks. 2003-08-19 5:08 am my personal opinion: kde rocks, gnome sucks. my personal opinion: You suck more than KDE does. 2003-08-19 5:09 am The GTK+ site says 2.4 should be released before the end of the year. GTK 2.4 may make it into RedHat 10, but I’ve also read that the new file selection dialog is not API compatible, so applications may need to be converted to use it. If this is true, this would almost certainly not happen for RedHat 10. Well, the file selector work seems to be mostly directed by a Red Hat guy if I’m not mistaken (Owen Taylor), so I would be surprised if they wouldn’t try their best to get it into RH10. And while it’s not compatible, it wouldn’t be a problem to have both applications using the new file selector and applications using the old one (it’s a new API, not “overriding” the old one). It will just take a while until all applications have switched. 2003-08-19 8:37 am Doesn’t nobody get fed up by being constantly told “It’s a GTK thing”? I mean, KDE has its *own* dialog which is much better than the *qt* one. Just try LyX-QT and see the difference. So why can’t GNOME make it’s own dialog and let all applications use it? Or don’t they want that because so many applications are not Gnome but GTK behind the scenes… 2003-08-19 2:04 pm Quit being a little bitch… All you do is moan and complain. You are never happy unless it is a news item related to Java. Which reminds me… why are you so anti-gnome when your beloved Sun is pro-gnome? -G 2003-08-19 2:08 pm The incredible wonderful generous man known only as the mysterious FooBarWidget has posted this message to the gnomesupport.org forum. He even included a script to help you out. Run the install and get your new gtk today. Here is the link: http://gnomesupport.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3635&postdays=0&post… 2003-08-19 2:17 pm The incredible wonderful generous man known only as the mysterious FooBarWidget has posted this message to the gnomesupport.org forum. He even included a script to help you out. Run the install and get your new gtk today. Here is the link: 2003-08-19 2:22 pm Huh, forgot to close the Italic element… anyway… How did he get those windows dropping shadow? Victor. 2003-08-19 2:34 pm regarding fileselector: crashes, ’nuff said regarding drop shadow: xfce has a patch available for GTK (breakmygentoo provides you with the patches too), i bet you can find it with google 2003-08-19 2:35 pm oh yeah and the drop shadow doesn’t crash, but it doesn’t work perfectly either. the shadow works well enough for me, the fileselector doesn’t 2003-08-19 2:54 pm He said that he worked out the crash issue and a number of people said they got it to work. Was going to try it once I got home. Don’t have time at work. Victor: What else were you expecting? What is missing. Its a work in progress post a request on that forum as a guest or something. Maybe he can get it in. 2003-08-20 4:22 am “Doesn’t nobody get fed up by being constantly told “It’s a GTK thing”? I mean, KDE has its *own* dialog which is much better than the *qt* one. Just try LyX-QT and see the difference. So why can’t GNOME make it’s own dialog and let all applications use it? Or don’t they want that because so many applications are not Gnome but GTK behind the scenes…” The GNOME project tries to make sure that you don’t need to use the GNOME libraries if you don’t need them. This adds bloat and reduces portability (Gtk itself is completely portable). Thus, having a completely different fileselector for Gtk and GNOME is not considered a good thing. The fact that Qt applications integrate almost not at all in KDE is _not_ cool (see Opera). There are even thoughts about making the new API use the KDE or Windows file dialogs, depending on which environment the application is started in. Under GNOME, it should make use of GNOME features like GnomeVFS, whether it’s using some GNOME libraries or not. Saying that “it’s a Gtk thing” also isn’t an excuse like “not our fault”. The only reason why this is told so often is to make clear, that it will not come with GNOME 2.4 but with the Gtk 2.4 release which is not released in time for GNOME 2.4 (but once it is out, nothing will stop you from using it so you don’t necessarily have to wait for GNOME 2.6).