Home > SuSE, openSUSE > First look at SuSE Linux Professional 9.0First look at SuSE Linux Professional 9.0 Adam Scheinberg 2003-09-29 SuSE, openSUSE 49 CommentsMadPenguin takes the scoop with a first look at SuSE Linux 9.0. The review is very favorable. Screenshots are included. About The Author Adam ScheinbergVice President, Information Technology at Massey Services, Inc • President, Board Member, The Mockingbird Foundation • All Things Web, Umphrey’s McGee • Web Developer • Father • Foodie • Music Snob • OS enthusiastFollow me on Twitter @sethadam1 49 Comments 2003-09-29 1:31 pm I clicked refresh and all the posts went bye bye 2003-09-29 1:35 pm Strange strange strange… No valid MySQL resource; no comments for stories older than 10 days allowed; then everything gone. What I wanted to say:In SuSE 8.2, everything was set up so that if you clicked a .EXE, it was run with WINE automatically, and automatically a “Programs” section appeared in the KDE menu. So to install Delphi 5:– Click CD-ROM on the desktop– Click SETUP.EXE and follow the steps on the screen– After finishing, click K-Menu -> Programs -> Borland -> Delphi5 -> Delphi to start it.That’s great Windows compatibility, I think! 2003-09-29 1:36 pm We are all contributing to osnews by providing informations, comments, and so on, and the supadmin just deletes all the messages we posted.We are not all English speaker, and it is a pain to express ourselves in this language. Please, admin, take care of what you do : We love osnews but we are expecting a much more consideration ! 2003-09-29 1:40 pm SuSE.. mainly a KDE distribution.. and this Mad Penguin only shows screenshots of GNOME..And.. he speaks about some Geramik theme for GNOME/GTK apps.. but he doesn’t show anything of that in those screenshots..Sorry.. bad review.. 2003-09-29 1:42 pm Except that if your language, I am guessing French, is not understood by the moderator then it cannot be moderated and should be deleted. 2003-09-29 1:44 pm Aside from being one of the fasted GNOME desktops on the planet, they have also done an excellent job with theming this time around. What it looks like is a scaled down Keramik (or should I say Geramik) theme… and quite frankly I think that Keramik would look better taking a queue from this theme. The window decorations also work well with the theme, though depending on the size of the window and the length of the title, it can become confusing to read as the blue background turns into gray on the right side, the white text becomes harder to read. Based on what is shown on the screenshots provided in the review of Suse GNU/Linux 9.0, the default engine used by Suse looks strikingly similar to many of the mockups done by Mrs. Eugenia Loli-Queru herself. Eugenia, do you see similarities between the mockups and themes that you have done and those screenshots? I personally do.I understand that Suse has a history to package many internally developed as non-free software in their GNU/Linux distrobutions. Does anyone know if this theme is obtainable by those who run GTK/Metacity on a non-Suse platform? If so what is the license. Thanks. 2003-09-29 1:49 pm I think suse and redhat are about the only major enterprise linux distros that are certified to run major apps like oracle.I know redhat is very expensive, is suse much better? 2003-09-29 1:50 pm And.. he speaks about some Geramik theme for GNOME/GTK apps.. but he doesn’t show anything of that in those screenshots..He didn’t say the theme was Geramik. He said it resembled Geramik. You can find this statement in the article: Aside from being one of the fasted GNOME desktops on the planet, they have also done an excellent job with theming this time around. What it looks like is a scaled down Keramik (or should I say Geramik) theme… and quite frankly I think that Keramik would look better taking a queue from this theme. [sarcasm] What a suprise. People building off the ideas of others. What an unatural behavior this is. [/sarcasm] 2003-09-29 2:07 pm The story was deleted because the linked story disappeared too? Someone like to make a conspirancy theory out of it? 🙂 2003-09-29 2:19 pm Maybe someone can tell me where I can download that theme?Eugenia, your GNome theme rocks, I love it! 2003-09-29 2:45 pm Seems like the server is down. I was lucky enough to still have the page opened, and it seems as if people want to read the review, but can’t, so I saved and uploaded the original article here:http://news.devnetwork.net/suse/suse_review.htmlDisclaimer: Obviously, it’s not my review. And if MadP really has a problem with me posting it for people to read, they can contact me. Once the article is back up, I will take it down. 2003-09-29 2:49 pm We don’t mind you mirroring the article… especially since the site is down for some unknown reason. Looking into it now.Thanks again 2003-09-29 3:08 pm But really… what happened to the story???? 2003-09-29 3:10 pm Does any one know if XFce 4.0 will be in 9.0? 2003-09-29 3:20 pm Blimey! That’s what you get when only skimming through the page Still think it’s weird tho..Oh, and that Gtk theme is not a theme from Eugenia:http://art.gnome.org/themes/gtk2/535.php 2003-09-29 3:37 pm To continue the fun, the document is atm back again online: http://newsforge.com/newsforge/03/09/26/1518235.shtml?tid=23 2003-09-29 3:49 pm Nice work Jason!Now can someone do the most important part -> screenshots ?Thanks!!! 2003-09-29 3:57 pm Sorry. =)Looked in my cache, and I had 6 of the 8. You can find the screenshots here:http://news.devnetwork.net/suse/screenshots/ 2003-09-29 4:03 pm This is SuSE. KDE 3.2 is going to be releasd. 2.6.0 Grows fastand Gnome makes rapid progress. MySQL is developing 4.1 and SuSE can`t wait for major Releases and the first fixes.I hope at least the don`t change just extend the package collection and don`t modify the standard configuration in comparison to vers. 8.2. 2003-09-29 4:06 pm New SuSE….yeahWhere can I get/download SuSE 9.0 …gona be used in testing purpouses? 2003-09-29 4:10 pm Does someone know if 9.0 will support XFree`s randr extensions ?? 2003-09-29 4:13 pm How about trying to read the review? 2003-09-29 4:14 pm Perhaps you should wait first for it to be released? And then one additional month for the FTP version? 2003-09-29 4:16 pm You can still wait for Netscape 8, Gnome 3.0, Samba 4 and kernel 3.0I am sure that SuSe will provide easy way to update our KDE and MySQLIf not, take a look on Redhat 2003-09-29 4:33 pm Yes. But often it`s a few weeks before major releases of core apps when SuSE releases it`s new version. They do advertising with these apps. And I think distributions consitsall of these same core apps (kde, gnome, mysql, kernel, gimp etc.). So they should wait for new featues making their new Version obviosly different from the version before.Ok, and I think you misunderstood me with major releases.e.g if you look in kde`s release plans the upcoming 3.2 Version is a big step forward in comparison to the 3.1.x Release with it`s Patchreleases.Equally with the Step MySQL 4.0 to 4.1.This I meant with big (major) releases.And I don`t have to tell you what big changes will come with the new Kernel. 2003-09-29 5:00 pm It’s more a series of incremental changes. Kernel 2.4.21 instead of 2.4.19. KDE 3.1.4 instead of 3.1 (or was it 3.0 in SuSE 8.2). Same with most apps. I know they’re under pressure from a marketing perspective, but changes in YaST aside, there’s not a lot to this. And when SuSE 9.1 gets released with kernel 2.6.0, KDE 3.2, and possibly Gnome 2.6 (or 2.4, I don’t follow Gnome that much) the whole numbering scheme’s gonna look pretty silly.Unless of course they just want to fast track to SuSE X or something like that.Still, after three years in the wilderness (cheap Redhat & Mandrake CDs) I’m looking forward to buying my second ever SuSE distro. SuSE 6.0 was the first Linux distro I ever had and they were great then, and from what I’ve seen they’re great now (though I wish they’d get a nice understated icon/widget theme like Bluecurve – dotNet & Gorilla maybe?). 2003-09-29 5:10 pm http://art.gnome.org/themes/gtk2/504.phpThis theme was based on Eugenias mockups, you wanna know how i know? The man who submitted it gave her credit. Its called Variance 2003-09-29 6:27 pm It toulk them a while to get where Mandrake is with the Menu System…. 2003-09-29 6:28 pm PLEASE don’t say that! Variance is NOT Eugenia’s theme. The “Variance” theme is not what I envisioned. My theme requires a GTK+ engine and maybe even GTK+ changes to fully look good.“Variance” is “inspired” from my theme, yes, but is nowhere near the performance, clean looks and graphics quality I had in my mind when I created it. It is not the theme I designed: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=3725 even if it looks like it. There are many aspects of Variance that does things completely the opposite way I suggested. 2003-09-29 6:32 pm Can someone explain to me why they don’t use kernel 2.4.22? 2003-09-29 6:38 pm Where is it? 2003-09-29 8:03 pm Shouldn’t there be a quality check of the article before posting the news ??? The review is really really bad, and osnews.com should concentrate on really HIGH QUALITY – as i am used to have here. 2003-09-29 8:40 pm SuSE 9.0 will be the last SuSE in the 6-months release cycle they have been following for quite sometime. Reports say SuSE will adopt a 12-18 months release cycle scheduel which is, IMHO, a very smart and strategic move.Looking forward to upgrade to SuSE 9.0 next month! 2003-09-29 9:25 pm we all want it! 2003-09-29 9:49 pm Longer cycle yes, but for the business products. 2003-09-29 10:18 pm That review is full of crap. No offense, btu taht review is NOT objective saying stuff llike “GNOME has provided a great GNOME and KDE as always” is just plain not true. IN most versions of SuSE, gnome was pretty poor. Way too much “as always” crap which isn’t true, having a dependency on a default isntall of 8.2 is also not atentioon to detail “as always” 2003-09-29 10:35 pm “You can still wait for Netscape 8, Gnome 3.0, Samba 4 and kernel 3.0I am sure that SuSe will provide easy way to update our KDE and MySQLIf not, take a look on Redhat”There will be no netscape 8 2003-09-29 10:42 pm >That review is full of crap.I will have to agree. MadPenguin is getting lots of “exclusive copies” off SuSE to get his article up before anyone else. So, “while he is an avid slackware user”, he presents SuSE as the best thing after sliced bread. Sorry, but I don’t bite.BTW, this time around, we won’t be having any [exclusive] reviews on osnews about mdk, rhl or suse etc. I stopped doing those. I will just be writing reviews when I feel like it and not just because I am pressed because of their release cycles. 2003-09-29 11:39 pm I will have to agree. MadPenguin is getting lots of “exclusive copies” off SuSE to get his article up before anyone else. So, “while he is an avid slackware user”, he presents SuSE as the best thing after sliced bread. Sorry, but I don’t bite.BTW, this time around, we won’t be having any [exclusive] reviews on osnews about mdk, rhl or suse etc. I stopped doing those. I will just be writing reviews when I feel like it and not just because I am pressed because of their release cycles. Yeah I have to agree. This guy praises Suse for their extraordinary work in the Desktop: Hands down, their desktop offerings surpass all other RPM-based distros available today. This is not meant to take any of the glory from Mandrake, Red Hat, or any other distro for that matter. SuSE just simply makes more sense on the desktop. They seem to have more of a focus on what it is they want their operating system to look, feel, and act like. Their attention to detail is like none other. Wait! Did he say that Suse has done more work in the desktop than any other RPM distro? Redhat, the creators of RPM which Suse uses exclusively, has done far more work on projects like Gnome and countless art contributions to free software such as Bluecurve and icons (praise be upon them). IIRC Suse has a track record of making it difficult for people to obtain ISO’s without cost, and releasing internally developed non-free software with their distros. They need to get rid of that Suse logo and put the Gnome foot back, and perhaps hire some new artists.Eugenia, you suprised me with the stance you took. Congrads on having your GUI concepts be incorporated into a commercial venture. Have you been compensated? Have they released changes? 2003-09-30 12:56 am I didn’t see any problems with the review, so he likes Gnome more than kDE, who cares. So he likes SuSE more than other RPM distro’s, who cares. SuSE was the first Linux distro that acuatlly made me want to stick with LInux. SuSE makes a very good product. <period> 2003-09-30 1:19 am While, this review was in every way extremely biased and presented SuSE as the savior of the desktop, SuSE’s contributions are not minor, and they are not far behind in their contributions to Linux, tehy help out dozens of projects with money and code each day.BTW:Here are some more biased quotes: “Hands down, their desktop offerings surpass all other RPM-based distros available today.”Whiel he says this, he never really does an objective comaprison ebtween mandrake, redhat, and other RPM absed distros.“Their attention to detail is like none other.”really, I thought both Xandros, Lindows and even Mandrake in the latest release semed to have a more polished desktop. I often see programs with obscure names and no icons, dependencies I shouldn’t have to deal with, configuration errors, menu items in the wrong place and 5 items that do the exact same thing (All Linux distributions should learn from Redhat and Lindows’s menus), etc.“Personally, I am usually a KDE man when it comes to Linux on the desktop, but SuSE has always produced an impressive GNOME implementation on all of their releases, and 9.0 is no different.”This is just plain wrong, first of all if he is a KDE man why does he not even include a screenshto of KDE running and second of all, SuSE is clearly KDE centric and is often criticized for producing a sub par GNOME desktop as Redhat is accudes of producing a sub par KDE desktop, I tend to agree with both criticisms.“On the subject of video, SuSE has always (at least in my experience) been a pain to get the latest nVIDIA drivers load properly. This is no longer the case. After I installed the system, I went to the nVIDIA website and downloaded the latest 1.0-4496 drivers. They installed perfectly and after running glxgears at a full 4200fps, I was pretty impressed. The system ran every OpenGL game I tried with no complaint about 3D support (older SuSE systems would complain that 3D support wasn’t enabled when in fact it was. I think YaST was to fault for this)”Again, I think it’s a pain just to need to download the Nvidia drivers, today there should be no need to go hunting after drivers, I like the approach Xandros has taken on thsi by automatically configuring 3d.“As of version 9.0, the menu system of KDE and Gnome is based on the XDG standard. The configuration files are distributed to fewer directories. Administrators can easily adapt the menu structure for their users by editing the XML file /etc/xdg/menus/application.menu. The new structure is the result of a backport from the upcoming KDE version 3.2. The included KDE version features XDG support, which was backported from KDE 3.2. Furthermore, menu branches are automatically condensed if a submenu only contains one entry. This characteristic can be deactivated with /etc/opt/kde3/share/config/kickerrc:ReduceMenuDepth.”This is just a question, will switching to this new stanard finally allow me to edit the menus with Kmenu?“Documentation is, as always, excellent. This is one area that SuSE has never let its customers down in. Their printed documentation is second to none and their online manuals are also very good. You know you have some thorough documentation when you pick up a four pound box which is supposed to contain a few discs… the rest is BOOKS. SuSE walks the end-user through everything from installation to configuration and application usage. It is the most excellent and well written documentation available.”I agree with this, but the documentation does need some updating, many of the things in my 8.2 handbook go back to 7.2 and have not been expanded or refined, the screenshots are also old.In conclusion, i think thsi review is too much fluff and too little critical analysis, thoguh it does have some good critique and valuable information it is jsut too much kissing up. SuSE does provide a good desktop system comapred to other Linux distributions anyway, but it is in no way as good as Madpenguin or The Register make it out to be.I much rather prefer eugenia’s no bullshit, honest reviews and I like taht she doesen’t take sides, for example saying that Redhat sucks because it’s GNOME centric or that SuSE sucks because it’s KDE centric, she tries to be objective and not let her reviews get poluted with zealous affilations. Though, I think she likes GNOME more since she posted mroe reviews of GNOME applications on gnomedesktop.org andgenerally prefered that themes were implemented with GNOME technology etc. Still, in her reviews she didn’t elt that show. 2003-09-30 1:41 am I much rather prefer eugenia’s no bullshit, honest reviews and I like taht she doesen’t take sides, for example saying that Redhat sucks because it’s GNOME centric or that SuSE sucks because it’s KDE centric, she tries to be objective and not let her reviews get poluted with zealous affilations. Though, I think she likes GNOME more since she posted mroe reviews of GNOME applications on gnomedesktop.org andgenerally prefered that themes were implemented with GNOME technology etc. Still, in her reviews she didn’t elt that show.True to some extent. Everyone knows that Eugenia is a gnome zealot. Any article that praises Gnome is automagicaly posted in OSNews, and Eugenia never forgets to add that “she agrees with the author that gnome is the choice”.I found the SuSE review to be sound, if somewhat shortcoming. Is SuSE KDE-centric? Sure it is and will remain a KDE distro, SuSE invested in KDE and will continue to invest. 2003-09-30 3:17 am >themes were implemented with GNOME technology etc.This is because it is damned easy to write Gnome themes, not for any other reason. You have to sit your a$$ down and write C++ code if you want to do a KDE theme. That’s just too much for me for something that I just want to have fun with.GTK+ themes only require some scripting work for the easy themes (when you don’t do theme engines), so I just go with that.>Everyone knows that Eugenia is a gnome zealot.I am sorry, but I am NOT a Gnome zealot.A year ago people shouting at me saying that I hate Gnome and now you tell us that I like gnome? Decide please! I do happen to believe the Gnome has today a cleaner usability side than KDE, but that doesn’t mean that I “like” Gnome. I much prefer MacOSX, Windows and BeOS’ UI for that matter, because they have better integration to the underlying OS than Gnome or KDE or whatever other X environment. 2003-09-30 6:59 am Actually, pixmap themes are still possible in KDE. Very few people use them, however, since the Qt styles are much more flexible and user configurable.And yes, Eugenia, you have a demonstratable bias towards GNOME in your article selections. 2003-09-30 7:16 am > And yes, Eugenia, you have a demonstratable bias towards GNOME in your article selections.Examples and COUNTER examples please?I suggest to ALL go and read here:http://www.osnews.com/topic.php?icon=58and here:http://www.osnews.com/topic.php?icon=57So, give me a break! 2003-09-30 8:03 am According to http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=suse it will contain Xfce 3.8.18. 2003-09-30 8:11 am will suse 9.0 include mainactor 5? 2003-09-30 8:35 am Thank you for those links, Eugenia. You prove my point perfectly. By my rough count there were 36 articles from 2003 about GNOME while only 17 about KDE.BTW, there is nothing wrong with liking GNOME over KDE. But clearly your view influences your “objective” work. Nothing wrong with that, if you admit it. There is no such thing as objectivity. 2003-09-30 8:55 am >there were 36 articles from 2003 about GNOME while only 17 about KDE.Maybe because there were no big announces to be posted??Have you thought of that before starting your rant?Gnome had more releases this year, both finals and many betas. KDE didn’t have many.It is only normal to have more gnome news! And BTW, you can’t measure if something is pro-kde or pro-gnome from the number of news posts, it is clearly subject of the news available (and gnome had more releases as I explained)! But you should instead count the articles that are SUPPOSEDLY anti-kde and anti-gnome.If there is someone biased around here, it is you. You try to convince yoursself that I am anti-kde, without actually checking these articles I linked for you! You only want to believe what you want to believe.I explained earlier, that I do find gnome’s usability better, but overall, I don’t consider gnome having a stellar UI and usability either. Even more, both lack system integration, as all X11 DEs, so no matter which one you pick, they all suck in the long run.