Kaffe has been released. The announcement mentions many bugfixes, improved support for NIO, JVMPI, JSSE, more merges with GNU Classpath, and code cleanups. Furthermore, work is underway on improving support for running Eclipse3 on kaffe, as well as getting JBoss 3.2.x to run on it.
Kaffe 1.1.3 Released
Submitted by Dalibor Topic 2003-12-13 Java 15 Comments
Some very impressive progress there. The merging of Kaffe and GNU Classpath was probably the best thing to happen to the open source Java scene.
I’m looking forward to Gentoo adopting Java. If this project keeps up this kind of momentum, Sun might see it’s control of Java start to lessen slightly. This can be Java for everybody, by everybody.
I would like to see more work done in supporting swing by the classpath project and thus kaffe and gcj. I have notice lately all open source projects starting to support eclipse and SWT thanks to the availability of the libraries source to the OSS comunity. It is sad that SUN don’t notice that. Today, the only way to use swing for GUI programming is using the SUN’s JDK, no third-party support, meanwhile SWT being younger gets eclipse running with free virtual machine implementations and even without them (gcj).
Now that Kaffe is cleaning their codebase, I would like to see them profiling their VM for speed. I really like the idea of an open source VM to not depend on SUN’s JDK
yes, Sun has accomplished much, but still seems oddly unresponsive at times. Being a Netbeans fan, I don’t use Eclipse much but am still impressed by it’s high-quality and am amazed at the momentum and reputation it’s built up in the last year. It’s hit a big nerve with SWT and JFace. Maybe SwingWT will bridge the gap.
Good luck, continued success and many thanks to everyone who has given us javistas such an abundance of riches.
what so wrong with the JDK? i don’t mind using sun’s jvm, its free. i’m all about open source but what does this add? if its for gpl puritanism then i’ll pass, but its not like we need a replacement or learn much as the white papers seem pretty thorough (having read a fair chunk of them). The only people I can imagine benefitting from this are people on rarer platforms. The only people i can currently think of are ppc linu fans (sun doesn’ have a jvm for these guys iirc) or arm processors users. i don’t see the point unless this is just a hobby or just some gpl fanatics.
ps- replacing the jvm won’t “free” <scoff> java as it is controlled by the jcp and changing it prematurely would make java lose its usefulness because it would lack compatibility and probabaly get you sued like m$ did.
It’s free beer. Not Free speech. You’ll even have to agree with a license. Don’t like Kaffe? Don’t use it, and leave us alone.
OK, so you don’t like CaptainPinko’s remarks. But why not answer the question? What’s Kaffe’s point, why should someone use it? The SDK is free (as in beer) and carries no strings attached. Why is Kaffe reinventing the wheel?
You cant bundle jvm or the sdk from sun along with linux or other operating systems that sun doesnt care much without prior permission. Kaffe adds a completely free toolchain
Java, for me, crashes almost everysingle time the console loads up (I can’t shut it down.) I have a dual AMD 1700 box and it takes like 10 seconds to load. I have 1Gb of RAM.
can someone tell me why people develop on Java? Why not just use another language (If it’s so close to using C, why not use C?)
this is not a dig at Java, but for ME it runs poorly.
“OK, so you don’t like CaptainPinko’s remarks. But why not answer the question? What’s Kaffe’s point, why should someone use it? The SDK is free (as in beer) and carries no strings attached. Why is Kaffe reinventing the wheel?”
(I agree with The Other Anonymous and would like to add)
First, there are even _much_ more implementations. You can ask the very same regarding a lot of other projects; and i find the license is one of those many issues. There are even problems regarding this between Free software projects! For example GPL vs BSDL.
Same regarding this: it is the license which is important. It gives users, Linux distribution devvers, and programmers more (or “another”) Freedom. Choice and diversity is Good. Have you ever read Sun’s license? I don’t know, but i don’t like software which has a EULA which allows others to rightfully install 3rd party software. Do you?
Why reinventing the wheel? I point my finger to Sun, sorry.
The licensing, for one. As dpi said, it’s not free as in ‘free software’, so there is a lot of things that would be desirable to do (for some of us, I realize that there are different kinds of people with different needs), but you are not allowed to by the license. So there are ‘strings attached’ to the JDK license that aren’t attached to kaffe.
The bloat, for example. JDK comes at a whopping 70 megs, without the docs, last time I looked. Kaffe is a tenth of that. It doesn’t have many of the latest features, but is highly customizable down to have just the APIs you need for your application, and nothing else. Some (think embedded devices) developers like that degree of freedom. What’s even better, you can distribute your work, without violating the license. You are not allowed to distribute modified versions of the JDK.
The ports for 50+ different platforms, for another. We have testers, users and developers on platforms ranging from alpha-netbsd to x86_64-linux, and most of them have a jitter implementation. There is even a port to Cray in the works All from the same core codebase, from embedded superh-linux devices to zSeries mainframes running linux. That’s a slightly different scale of things than making a JM for 3 platforms
Features, for yet another reason. Kaffe supports several different threading backends, up to 3 different execution engines, two AWT backend implementations, two sound backends, two big number implementations, is highly customizable, etc.
Finally, making a better wheel is lots of fun. You think there is no way to make a better wheel? Tell that to the dude that came up with tires
At the end of day, kaffe is trying to integrate all the good free java stuff that’s out there in the form of a free VM. Some people work on it for fun, some need a JVM on their platfom, some do research, and others get paid to make it work by people who need it. You don’t have to use it, though. By all means, use Sun’s JDK if you’re happy with it. Kaffe won’t replace legacy VMs tomorrow, just like Linux won’t replace legacy OSes on the desktop tomorrow.
Maybe in a year or two, we’ll have a free VM that regularly outperforms Sun’s VM, by intergrating all the great free VM stuff in one accessible package. Maybe the crown will go to gcj or SableVM. We’ll see. Maybe then you’ll have a reason to use it, maybe not.
The free java runtime community is basically at the point where linux was 10 years ago: there is something out there, and it’s working well for some people. There is no point in using it for a lot of other people, in fact many people wonder why reinvent the wheel, when Windows/Unix/MacOS works so well etc. Actually, the free java runtime community is a little better off, since we are cooperating on many issues, so it’s like linux, *BSD & hurds joining forces to create the unix of the future. That’s why I’m confident that projects like Kaffe have a bright future.
Finally, best reason to use & develop free java runtimes: you can be part of the next big free software movement And we all have girlfriends
There is about 60% of JDK package content that I never use,
like Swing, Web start….Why do I have to download them
over and over with every new release ? There should be a number optional packages, so one should have a choice to download what he/she needs.
I have started with Python just because of that.
Why no modularisation? Because installing module after module sucks. As a developer you can’t be sure a program runs on a client machine if this machine has only some modules installed. At least for software installed by the end user it is best to not have him/her to cope with a dependency hassle.
Install the JDK once and (nearly) every Java program runs. IMO ease of use is much more important than disk space nowadays.
Ever heard of package managers ?
It’s bad that java software (notably JBoss) lack proper management of installed components. Bunch of jar files bound together using string and chewing gum. Lots of redundant files, even whole redundant trees etc. A kind of package manager resolving dependencies, recognizing versions of jars, cooperating with system package manager (rpm, msi, dpkg), etc. is still on my wishlist. I even would write one myself some day once I get time to do this.
thanks for sharing your views. It’s good to have intelligent views expressed here (not always the case).
I would disagree with you on the license issue (I really hate trying to debate with license puritans), as I don’t think Sun does a bad job of balancing “proprietary” work and OSS. Riding this fence is difficult enough (remember what Trolltech and L Wall went through!), so my own 0.02 is that Sun has done a fair job of it. Java is a MAJOR innovator and is used by big companies for large revenue. It also is available for small fish like myself (unlike other toolkits that I wish I could use sometimes). I don’t mind the EULA in this case.
Having said that it is very good (now that I’ve read your posts) that the groups are reimplementing the VMs. There is always the danger that Sun could be bought by a company less friendly than Sun. I still don’t see the reason to use it, but it’s nice to think that someone “has my back” as a Java programmer.