Novell has filed for registered copyright of several versions of UNIX that it once exercised domain over. This includes some of the same code that SCO is claiming ownership of. With Novell flexing its Linux muscle, and SCO redoubling its efforts, this could mean a future showdown between the two companies.
Novell putting this much muscle behind the SCO issue, its gonna be a really interesting battle! Although I suspect the winner will be the one with the most cash to throw at the situation…
Ya, but after all the garbage SCOG has fed the world, I’d put my money on Novell winning. When it comes to who has the most money, Novell also has that battle won hands down. Its coming down to several companies (some very large) vs. little ole SCOG. Boy they sure could use a lesson in strategy. They may have had a chance of at least surviving IBM win or lose. But since they decided to take on or piss off the world there will be nothing left but a twisted wreck.
In other news….there revenue announcement was priceless. SCOG lawyers get 9+mil and SCOG does -1.6mil for the quarter. Good job guys, way to do business.
WOW that is a smart move.
I need to know their spin doctor.
May be he can help me with my misery too.
All those years of thinking Novell was washed up/has-been… guess they aren’t so bad after all.
Linux really is a unix copy forced on an x86 box. Corporations need to ensure they have legal copies of software. Where I work will be in a pinch soon if Red Hat is found to need an SCO agreement. All I can say is it wasn’t my idea to use it. hehehehe
“Linux is made by amateurs and code theives. I prefer Windows XP”
Not the most intelligent thing I ever heard but we’re all entitled to our opinions.
Funny thing is, I think Steve Jobs over at Apple would have said the same about Windows…
Funny thing is, I think Steve Jobs over at Apple would have said the same about Windows…
Obviously, you missed the sarcasm that was intended
Anyone can file for a copyright or a patent the problem here is SCO was already awarded the copyrights. I personally think Novell is letting IBM and the Linux community talk them into getting into something over their head. After reading the agreements between Novell and SCO my interpretation is that Novell still owns their patents and copyrights of their contributions to UNIX but all the original and non-novell related material belongs to SCO. This looks like to me that Novell is regretting their purchasing agreements and are trying to wrestle ownership away from SCO. Sorry but I have to take SCO’s side on this argument.
“Anyone can file for a copyright or a patent the problem here is SCO was already awarded the copyrights.”
“Anyone can file for a copyright or a patent the problem here is SCO was already awarded the copyrights.”
You’re absolutely right, but then again they’re looking throw out Eolas and filing patents whenever and however one can seems to be the national pasttime this year, and of course dragging it all out in court seems to be the fun part for corporations. I’m not sure if it’s just me or there seems to be more lawsuits in the computer industry this year. At this rate, this SCO thing is not going to be settled til we here have all died of old age. And if so, then I say good for the lawyers, more power to’em.
Things just got very interesting. Novell popped up a while ago trying to state SCO didn’t own the copyrights. These two both know exactly what was purchased by Caldera (now SCO). If Novell feels they have a claim, they obviously must have some insight that hasn’t been shared.
Interesting thing to me is however, if Novell get the copyright, how likely would it be that they open source it to help the Linux community? They basically have become a Linux distro after all, not entirely unlike Caldera once was. This could be a very important developement for many different companies. And seemingly lost in all this is IBM’s $50 million investment in Novell, perhaps I am reading to much into this, but it just seems to suggest IBM also knows what Novell knows.
I have kept pretty close track on this whole case, its looking like SCO truly have no where else to turn now. They either release disputed code, or keep shelling out millions in the court room. Looks like they really do not have those millions to spend though – they lost more then $7 million last quarter alone. I don’t think they could possibly keep up those kinds of loses for long… on the other hand, IBM and Novell can play this game forever and still stay profitable.
Good luck SCO employees, I hope your next line of employment is a little more prosperous then your last.
” Things just got very interesting. Novell popped up a while ago trying to state SCO didn’t own the copyrights. These two both know exactly what was purchased by Caldera (now SCO). If Novell feels they have a claim, they obviously must have some insight that hasn’t been shared. ”
Actually I think Novell has been talking to the wrong people. While the guys at SCO/Caldera may not have been the brightest in the world Im pretty sure like any company they would have made sure that they bought the relevant material to claim ownership to UNIX source code, and as I stated there is my interpretation of the sale.
” Interesting thing to me is however, if Novell get the copyright, how likely would it be that they open source it to help the Linux community? ”
In my opinion and I have been right most of the way to this part. I dont think Novell will get the copyright. One explanantion as to why Novell is doing this is that SCO during its dicovery showed IBM some material that made IBM nervous and now IBM and not SCO is trying to play the lottery.
” I have kept pretty close track on this whole case, its looking like SCO truly have no where else to turn now. They either release disputed code, or keep shelling out millions in the court room. Looks like they really do not have those millions to spend though – they lost more then $7 million last quarter alone. I don’t think they could possibly keep up those kinds of loses for long… on the other hand, IBM and Novell can play this game forever and still stay profitable. ”
I have kept up with this case alot as well and my opinions on somethings have changed. While SCO lost 7 millionlast quarter they made profit the previous two quarters so if anything they broke even for the year or made something. And actually IBM/Novell cannot play this game forever, its only a matter of time before your partners and clients get fed up with the whole thing and decide to buy from another supplier. This thing needs to end quickly and quietly.
Well, perhaps you’re right, and this is only a maneuver to prevent SCO from going forward with copyright infringement case (such cases would have to wait until this particular copyright dispute is solved). On the other hand, if the agreements contain ambiguities, this could play in Novell’s favor.
In any case, it certainly puts more pressure on SCO, who had an already bad day with Linus and co. tearing through the latest letters sent to corporate Linux users (seems SCO’s tactics rely on a couple of header files…) and their financial report falling below expectations.
SCO’s stock lost nearly 6% today – expect more of the same tomorrow!
I have also followed this case closely (reading up on Groklaw, who provides lots of court links and such) and I disagree with your appraisal of SCO’s chances. They have two more weeks before they need to show the evidence required by IBM…we’ll know then how things are going. But so far, considering what code SCO has shown (including the last letters sent, which are a *joke*), I don’t see how you could imagine that they have a chance.
That’s not even considering all the code that Caldera and SCO knowingly provided to Linux (especially SMP), or the fact that Caldera distributed Linux for years (which could be reason enough for the case to be thrown out in the first place – you’re supposed to be aware of what you distribute).
If IBM figured out that they might lose this case, then they would just buy SCO out. No, more and more I’m convinced that this is a pump’n’dump, period. The fact that Boies gets a sizeable cut of the proceedings if SCO is liquidated only supports this theory.
“Well, perhaps you’re right, and this is only a maneuver to prevent SCO from going forward with copyright infringement case.”
Actually, I’m thinking that following the trail of who developed which parts of Unix and which parts got BSDed and which could be legally added to Linux or not (considering that Caldera released their own version of Linux under the GPL) and then (if SCO proceeds accordingly) re-doing the AT&T vs. BSD case…well, I’m just thinking it’s going to take so long to get settled, by the time it is will people even care anymore? I don’t blame Novell for pulling out their own bag of tricks. It’s sad that tying things up in court is such a fundamental way of doing business these days despite wasting time and taxpayer money.
“Although I suspect the winner will be the one with the most cash to throw at the situation…”
>>>>>>>>>>>
And of course absolute winners of that game are the lawyers. SCO’s lawyers already cost about 9 million dollars. Even if they loose they win.
Kidding.
Even _IF_ SCO were PROVEN to own the parts of UNIX that it claims . . .
It still would not be legal for them to demand money from linux users. It would be up to whoever sold them their version of Linux (RH, SUSE et al) to compensate SCO? Correct?
I know SCO is dead wrong of course, but I was just wondering; hypothetically.
“Actually I think Novell has been talking to the wrong people. While the guys at SCO/Caldera may not have been the brightest in the world Im pretty sure like any company they would have made sure that they bought the relevant material to claim ownership to UNIX source code, and as I stated there is my interpretation of the sale.”
I read on Novells site that according to the same ammendment SCO is claiming, it states that SCO only own the IP for what is REQUIRED for UnixWare needs. All IP that is not strictly required by SCO is not there property, and to be given some IP they had to request, so Novell would seemingly know what they have given SCO. SCO apparently purchased the right to carry on developement of UNIX SysV and related software, nothing more nothing less.
“In my opinion and I have been right most of the way to this part. I dont think Novell will get the copyright. One explanantion as to why Novell is doing this is that SCO during its dicovery showed IBM some material that made IBM nervous and now IBM and not SCO is trying to play the lottery.”
Perhaps you are correct, but based on the same statements from Novell, I would have to disagree… I can only go by what has been released to the public, SCO curtainly disagrees however, but have made no points as to why, thus my current belief that Novell is correct.
“I have kept up with this case alot as well and my opinions on somethings have changed. While SCO lost 7 millionlast quarter they made profit the previous two quarters so if anything they broke even for the year or made something. And actually IBM/Novell cannot play this game forever, its only a matter of time before your partners and clients get fed up with the whole thing and decide to buy from another supplier. This thing needs to end quickly and quietly.”
I don’t believe Novell or IBM will lose anything substantial in any way even if they do lose the court case. They are both respected companies, and that opinion isn’t changing in the corporate world. Only Linux will lose if SCO wins, and thats a shame. I do however agree that this thing needs to be figured out as soon as possible.
SCO’s claims are seemingly getting more and more beleivable, but untill they start proving their comments, noone will stand to lose anything other then SCO itself. I laughed off the initial announcement of the IBM case, but now I wonder who will win. I think that the big losers here will stand to be SCO either way.
Noone takes them seriously anymore in the server room, there prices are outragous, and even though they are a direct decendent of UNIX, noone seems to really care. I know of several businesses locally that have in fact switched from SCO UnixWare to Linux based solely on the current court issues. That doesn’t bode well, and when SCO is finally forced to release code, I garentee none of it will exist within a week in Linux. Linux will remain no matter what, and Novell and IBM will remain substantial companies in the industry no matter the outcome.
I still say this is just a ploy for SCO to be purchased by another company, they can’t possibly think anything positive can come of all this. If they do, they truly have lost it.
This is the second time, I think, that Novell has waited until SCO announced their quarter results to make such announcements. Both times it has had a negative effect on SCO’s stock price.
I love that.
” But so far, considering what code SCO has shown (including the last letters sent, which are a *joke*), I don’t see how you could imagine that they have a chance. ”
Because as McBride put it earlier, it is their word against the Open Source communities and it is up to a jury to decide who they believe. Juries do have a tendency to do stupid things. For example, where I live we had a murder trial where the defense attorney presented as much evidence as he could to instill reasonable doubt in any jury and the only thing prosecution had was a bunch of circumstantial evidence and they still convicted the man. Its easy to convince one person, but convincing 12 people is a lot harder.
” That’s not even considering all the code that Caldera and SCO knowingly provided to Linux (especially SMP), or the fact that Caldera distributed Linux for years (which could be reason enough for the case to be thrown out in the first place – you’re supposed to be aware of what you distribute). ”
Actually it was SCO employees that contributed who got authorization from supervisors. Ok Granted, but how far up the chain did the supervisor go to get approval. In terms of my company my employees, who most of them are heavily involved in Linux and other Open Source projects, they conribute code. It is my personal directive that anything they produce has to be cleared through me first and I do check very thoroughly. We have partnerships with lots of companies access to millions upon millions of source code files, it is my responsibility as a CTO and IT administrator to protect not only my employees but to protect my partners and their interests as well and I cant have some yoyo zealot who thinks all software should be free endangering them or my company and submitting code that is not original or copied from source that does not belong to my company or our partners. Im sorry, thats just me. Now, how far up the chain did they go? I dont know, but unknowingly contributions are not covered. How this helps SCO is that ignorance is bliss, not a crime.
” If IBM figured out that they might lose this case, then they would just buy SCO out. No, more and more I’m convinced that this is a pump’n’dump, period. The fact that Boies gets a sizeable cut of the proceedings if SCO is liquidated only supports this theory. ”
Naah, Im a devious person and if it was my call, i would publicly humiliate the company and their executives then offer a buy out or a settlement. I doubt SCO will lose because basically from novells press release I get the feeling they are trying to say they didnt sell UNIX which we all know is false. As previously stated from the purchase agreements I and others agree that Novell retained their innovations and material while giving the rest to SCO, this will play out to who is the biggest con artist and who is more believable.
I thought SCO was ‘sponsored’ by M$.
80+% of companies polled said the SCO case didn’t concern them enough to not switch to Linux. If they’re not worried, than neither am I. I’ve still have yet to see anybody say SCO has a strong case.
Because as McBride put it earlier, it is their word against the Open Source communities and it is up to a jury to decide who they believe.
This is not entirely true, in the sense that it is not only their word against the OSS community’s word (or, rather, IBM’s). As in any trial, evidence will have to be presented, and arguments will be made upon this evidence.
If it was just a question of SCO’s word against IBM’s, then SCO wouldn’t have a case in the first place, because even though it’s easier for a plaintiff to make a case in a civil court than in a criminal one, you still need to make your case and prove it!
Juries do have a tendency to do stupid things.
So you do believe that SCO is in the wrong (otherwise, why would you imply that a jury ruling in SCO’s case would be a stupid thing)?
Okay, I get a feeling you’re really playing Devil’s advocate here, which is commendable – after all, we shouldn’t be overconfident in this matter. But really, the way things look right now, unless SCO pulls out four aces in two weeks, the outlook is clearly not in their favor.
Now, how far up the chain did they go? I dont know, but unknowingly contributions are not covered. How this helps SCO is that ignorance is bliss, not a crime.
Well, if this had been done in secret, you might have a point, but the fact is that this was contributed openly, and over an extended period of time. SCO’s case in this regards is further weakened by the fact that they did distribute those contributions, which were apparently approved by them, as part of their Linux distributions – again, over an extended period of time, with publicly available code. All of this will make extremely hard for SCO to convince a jury that the contributions were made without their knowledge and approval. Innocence may be bliss, but negligence is not a valid defense.
The code contributed by their employees was there, approved by their immediate superiors. It was available, easily searchable, and yet we are to believe that management was unaware of it? This will never fly in court.
I doubt SCO will lose because basically from novells press release I get the feeling they are trying to say they didnt sell UNIX which we all know is false.
You mean that you doubt SCO will lose the copyright ownership, right? Because Novell’s move has really nothing to do with the suit against IBM (not directly, anyway).
Note that they are not trying to say that they didn’t sell UNIX – just that they own some copyrights (and actually, they claim copyrights on SysV revisions that SCO has yet to claim copyright to, specifically versions 3.2/386, 4.0, 4.1, 4.1ES, 4.1ES/386, 4.2, and 4.2MP).
As I said before, there is a good chance that this is a stalling measure on Novell’s part – but even if that’s all there is, this effectively counters any quick copyright infringement suit SCO might be tempted to pursue (SCO vs. IBM being about breach of contract, not copyrights). It’s a brillant strategic move in itself, opening a new legal front for SCO.
this will play out to who is the biggest con artist and who is more believable.
Then SCO, the IT equivalent of the Little Boy Who Cried Wolf, will definitely lose, as their outlandish claims are less believable every day. Even Judge Wells commented on “claims made in media” by SCO, and how this seemed to contradict their affirmations in the discovery process.
Again, I appreciate you playing Devil’s advocate, but I really don’t believe that SCO has a case. There has been nothing so far that would lead me to believe otherwise. Of course, they could drop a bombshell when they are compelled to provide discovery, but I doubt it. We’ll see in two weeks or so.