The Sun Microsystems Inc. has decided that the best way to compete against the growing use of commodity hardware and open-source software is to expand its own offerings in those very lines.
The Sun Microsystems Inc. has decided that the best way to compete against the growing use of commodity hardware and open-source software is to expand its own offerings in those very lines.
That’s a hell of a long time to take to realise that cheaper hardware wins.
They are still moving too slow, they should capitalize on Linux, however, it’s important that the users have more control and especially the knowledge base to learn from. The vendors are afraid of open source, however, who says that making something open source means that the vendor will be supplanted. How do you supplant a work force of thousands of employees providing service and support?
Technological superiority with open source Linux has no effect unless the user community is educated, so education comes first. Sales for Linux revolve around having a knowledgeble customer base, actual leaders who decide what they want to be sold, than meet that demand.
No Sir, you have to walk in a straight line during the whole article, try again.
“Sun might use other Linux distributions, maybe even Solaris, for JDS in the future.”
…but, every time I hear of something good to sell a product they end up screwing it up. It’s sad that a company that has released such great products as Solaris and Java can’t follow a consistent company path.
Sun really has changed. Maybe its shareholders got a bit upset about its anti-linux/PC stance and threatened to remove those stagnant execs, who knows. Its nice to see the company growing a brain for once. Here’s hoping it doesn’t end up autistic or retarded, from their lack of love for this technology.
“Also, let me really clear about our Linux strategy. We don’t have one. We don’t at all. We do not believe that Linux plays a role on the server. Period.”
Was Jonathan Schwartz lying through his teeth, an A-Class idiot, or both?
Is it just me or is Sun becoming just another death-thrashing UNIX animal caught in the Linux trap?
A lot of really strange behaviors coming out of the former UNIX superpowers these days…SCO, SGI, Sun, and HP.
It’s sad, but I really think that the way Sun is going, the best thing they can hope for is to be bought out by IBM so that IBM can put Sun’s Java and Solaris technologies to good use for the community at large.
(Note: I like Sun and Linux, and I hope that both have a place in the future of computing.)
http://www.linux-mag.com/2002-08/mcnealy_01.html
<excerpt>
LM: Do you ever give any thought to what role Linux might play in the next five years at Sun Microsystems?
McNEALY: It’s a kernel; it’s a component. I don’t really think about what DRAM’s going to do, or a disk controller. It’s another component that we’re going to use as a building block. Sun has two basic platforms. Sun ONE and N1, which is how we’re going to manage all these blades, and I don’t particularly care whether it’s on a Linux x86 blade or a Windows x86 blade, or a Sparc/Solaris blade, or an embedded chip blade. They’re components that only my engineers should worry about. My customers should never have to worry about it.
</excerpt>
What is with Sun and their on-again-off-again relationship with Linux!
Cheers
If only SUN would release that wonderful “Looking Glass” interface. It would attract people who want serious eye candy but dont want to switch to macs.
Yeap, from the 10 posts so far, I thank the lord that these people don’t run a business. Its the END RESULTS STUPID! NOT THE TECHNOLOGY! how many times must geeks, nerds and poindexters be told that the end user doesn’t give a flying continental about Linux, x86 ISA or any other geeky acronym.
The customer wants their problem to be solved in the cheapest, most reliable and quickest way possible. If Linux does it, then so be it, if Solaris does it, then so be it.
For god sake, pull you head out of you ass and get a real job in the real world. Again I stress, customers don’t give a shit about the technology, they care about the results. That is the important thing, the results.
You got it here first…
Sun, very different from IBM, embraces what customers wants. While admitting they are a bit confused why someone would choose a inferior platform to a higher cost with more support needed instead of choosing Solaris. Yes, we’re all confused about this… but that’s what Sun also fail about.
Yet they have to understand how to manipulate media which is more interested in headlines and such (which nowadays often is about Linux one way or the other no matter if great or just stupid news). The big question for sun is, how will they not only be technically superior but also loved by media…
What is troubling about Sun is not whether they go with Solaris, or Linux, or SkyOS for that matter. The problem is that their Linux strategy is all over the map. They keep changing their mind about whether they support Linux or not. First they say it has no place at all. Then they say its just a desktop, and has no place on the server. Now they release x86-based Linux servers? If was considering buying Sun products, I would definately be a little uncomfortable, wondering if the company was going to only half-heartedly support my purchase.
Horseshit.
Most times the customer doesn’t even really know what they want, they just think so. And, most of the time, they want something familiar.
If what you are saying were true, then no-one would care about
wanting Windows and if you believe that, you haven’t spent much time in the corporate world or reading this site.
Sun has no stand yet. Tomorrow they will love Linux, the next day they will hate it.
This is not a company I will trust.
Apparently, many remain confused. The strategy is this: Linux is most interesting as a desktop operating system. Zealous claims to the contrary, Linux remains an immature server operating system, and we believe that it will never be used for anything more important than low-end server computing. If customers want to use Linux as a server, fine — we’ll make sure that we certify our low-end machines to run Linux — but when it comes to server operating systems, our R&D investment is 100% in Solaris. Sun believes that Linux is most valuable to our customers as an alternative to Windows, not as an alternative to Solaris.
Is this really too hard to understand? Would a celebrity spokesperson help? Perhaps we could hire Big Bird or SuperGrover to put this into language that is more readily understood…
Never purchase ANYTHING from a company as confused as Sun appears to be.
Has anyone here personally seen or used a Sun x86 system? Details, performance, etc.
Anonymous from sun.com said:“…Linux remains an immature server operating system, and we believe that it will never be used for anything more important than low-end server computing.”
That’s not what SUN is saying. Excerpt below.
“…Sun now is conceding that a combination of Linux and x86-based computers can be used for “more robust enterprise-class” work, Foxwell said. For certain types of computing tasks, clusters of x86 computers can complement and, in some circumstances, replace high-throughput symmetric multiprocessing machines. …”
Is there confusion inside SUN too?
SUN is the only company which is full of ‘contingency plans’ in the it era.
java. solaris on sparc then/or on x86, now linux(desktop or server?) whatever
for the looking glass thing. i hv no idea hows the thing goin to work. memory usage/performance, actual usability. how is it go in to integrate with my real desktop(icon, panel, taskbar, tray…). its written in java…
screw sun!
The article concludes:
“We have a long road map ahead of us for evolving Sparc and Solaris. We have not backed off,” he said.
RE: Rayiner Hashem (IP: —.res.gatech.edu) – Posted on 2004-01-21 00:25:15
What is troubling about Sun is not whether they go with Solaris, or Linux, or SkyOS for that matter. The problem is that their Linux strategy is all over the map. They keep changing their mind about whether they support Linux or not. First they say it has no place at all. Then they say its just a desktop, and has no place on the server. Now they release x86-based Linux servers? If was considering buying Sun products, I would definately be a little uncomfortable, wondering if the company was going to only half-heartedly support my purchase.
Their standing is this, if you want to buy a server loaded with Linux then sure, no problems, however, their weight in terms of their network of VARs, consultancy services and so forth are focused more on Solaris for x86 and SPARC.
Also, why would a person decide to purchase Linux on a SUN x86 box when Solaris is there? sure, 7 years ago when Solaris cost an arm and a leg, sure, you can justify why you would want Linux instead of a commercial Linux, however, Solaris is, dollar for dollar, service for service, cheaper than Linux. Why would you choose Solaris over Linux?
On one hand you could purchase a Linux box and load Oracle on it OR you could purchase an SUN Opteron server loaded with Solaris and Sybase and it would outperform the Linux one.
Then comes the desktop, what the hell is wrong with making Linux the alternative to Windows on the desktop? I thought that was the big thing, Linux on the desktop or do we just have yet another undecided and constantly changing opinion from the geek quarters?
RE: T.Birdie (IP: —.sympatico.ca) – Posted on 2004-01-21 00:32:23
Horseshit. Most times the customer doesn’t even really know what they want, they just think so. And, most of the time, they want something familiar.
If what you are saying were true, then no-one would care about wanting Windows and if you believe that, you haven’t spent much time in the corporate world or reading this site.
I would hate to be your customer. The customer who comes in has a pretty good idea what they want, it is up to the consultant to marry up those requirements with products that are available.
It it you to doesn’t understand the customer, the condescending geek unwilling to talk to the customer because they’re not “up on the play”. Here is some news for you, the end user doesn’t care about the technology, they just want the problem solved.
Btw, people aren’t moving to Linux because it doesn’t solve the problems. It lacks the software to make it a viable desktop IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
RE: root (IP: 66.36.249.—) – Posted on 2004-01-21 02:51:29
Anonymous from sun.com said:”…Linux remains an immature server operating system, and we believe that it will never be used for anything more important than low-end server computing.”
That’s not what SUN is saying. Excerpt below.
“…Sun now is conceding that a combination of Linux and x86-based computers can be used for “more robust enterprise-class” work, Foxwell said. For certain types of computing tasks, clusters of x86 computers can complement and, in some circumstances, replace high-throughput symmetric multiprocessing machines. …”
Is there confusion inside SUN too?
Root, what part of SOME don’t you understand. Does some mean the whole f**cking lot? no sunshine it doesn’t. I means that in SOME, meaning “NOT ALL CASES”. Btw, how is SUN LOOSING if the customer BUYS a CLUSTER of SERVERS from SUN.
Root, what part of SOME don’t you understand. Does some mean the whole f**cking lot? no sunshine it doesn’t. I means that in SOME, meaning “NOT ALL CASES”. Btw, how is SUN LOOSING if the customer BUYS a CLUSTER of SERVERS from SUN.
You are missing the point entirely. The guy from sun said, “we believe that it (Linux) will never be used for anything more important than low-end server computing.” The excerpt, on the other hand, says, “For certain types of computing tasks, clusters of x86 computers can complement and, in some circumstances, replace high-throughput symmetric multiprocessing machines. …” Anyway you cut it, that is a blatant contradiction.
“Root, what part of SOME don’t you understand. Does some mean the whole f**cking lot? no sunshine it doesn’t. I means that in SOME, meaning “NOT ALL CASES”. Btw, how is SUN LOOSING if the customer BUYS a CLUSTER of SERVERS from SUN.”
You are missing the point entirely. The guy from sun said, “we believe that it (Linux) will never be used for anything more important than low-end server computing.” The excerpt, on the other hand, says, “For certain types of computing tasks, clusters of x86 computers can complement and, in some circumstances, replace high-throughput symmetric multiprocessing machines. …” Anyway you cut it, that is a blatant contradiction.
1) That is a comparison between an employees comment and what a company representative said. Unless you can put a name to that anonymous person from SUN, he could be anyone. He could be anyone from Scott McNealy down to the person who cleans the dunnies on floor 3 of the SUN building.
The fact is, there is no name associated with it, meaning, unless a company represenative comes out and clarifies it, right now it can considered nothing more than an employees opinion on the direction of SUN.
2) Companies can change their direction at anytime. SCO said the same thing about Windows 2000, IBM said the same thing about Linux, and DEC claimed that NT was the future of computing.
3) The comparison was between SUN Starfire type hardware compared to juiced up x86 hardware running Linux. The comparison was NEVER between a big iron and clustered servers, infact, SUN has ALWAYS pushed the idea of a “big f**cking server” over clustering as demonstrated that the management was simplier thus resulting in a lower TCO thus making it cheaper than a cluster of x86 servers.
would hate to be your customer. The customer who comes in has a pretty good idea what they want, it is up to the consultant to marry up those requirements with products that are available.
It it you to doesn’t understand the customer, the condescending geek unwilling to talk to the customer because they’re not “up on the play”. Here is some news for you, the end user doesn’t care about the technology, they just want the problem solved.
Btw, people aren’t moving to Linux because it doesn’t solve the problems. It lacks the software to make it a viable desktop IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES
You’re grossly underestimating the power of mindshare and peer pressure. But, I admit, that depends on the customer and who’s calling the shots. If it’s the company nerds, it’s one thing, if it’s techno-illiterate types, it’s another.
Smart customers ( or those who think they are) usually do some research for important project and develop preconceived notions – sometimes that’s a good thing, sometimes not. And, where computers are concerned, they usually want to preserve the existing investment – that can make adoption of a radically different or superior tech difficult.
As for Linux on the desktop, that’s been debated to death and will continue to be for a while. I would like to point out, as others have done in numerous discussions on the topic, that there is more than one definition of a “desktop”
and for MANY of these, there are excellent Linux solutions.
“Apparently, many remain confused.”
Yeah, Sun changes their mind about Linux every other week. Someone will claim there is no strategy, someone else will claim its now important, and then someone else will say something entirely different. There is no single voice, Sun at times sounds like an internal circus.
“The strategy is this: Linux is most interesting as a desktop operating system. Zealous claims to the contrary, Linux remains an immature server operating system, and we believe that it will never be used for anything more important than low-end server computing.”
Too bad thats not whats actually occuring. Linux is being used in mission critical financial markets, not merely backroom www servers. This is not 1998, and while Linux is still not quite up to Solaris’s level of achievement it is without question better then Windows and look at their marketshare. Superior technology does not win marketshare, as unfortunate as that is. Linux is being used in embedded spaces (TiVo, dvd players, cell phones, etc), high end SMP machines, advanced NUMA machines (SGI’s Altix) at up to 256 CPUs, massive clusters – sh*t, its literally everywhere and growing at an amazing pace. No, Linux is not yet Solaris – but Solaris is bleeding marketshare while Linux is absolutely booming. Linux is more then “good enough” for many people. Arrogantly stating that its only useful as a desktop is silly considering the overwhelming bulk of its use is in the server space.
“If customers want to use Linux as a server, fine — we’ll make sure that we certify our low-end machines to run Linux — but when it comes to server operating systems, our R&D investment is 100% in Solaris. Sun believes that Linux is most valuable to our customers as an alternative to Windows, not as an alternative to Solaris.”
I understand that possition too, Solaris is Sun’s baby. I like Sun and Solaris, but the inevitable /will/ happen – not likely this year or next, but its going to happen. Linux will over take Solaris. I don’t consider myself a zealot, and I like Solaris – but the writing is on the wall. Prove me wrong, I’d love to see Solaris stick around. Its not for hate for the platform…
“Is this really too hard to understand? Would a celebrity spokesperson help? Perhaps we could hire Big Bird or SuperGrover to put this into language that is more readily understood…”
Thats not appropriate, some higher up in Sun will open their mouth every other week it seems and utter something completely contrary to what was said earlier – and then do it again. Theres no consistency in message.
Oh, and I am glad to see the driver situation improve in Solaris x86 – the 12/03 release is quite an improvement. I hope Solaris 10 only furthers this.
Why do you think Linux is going to replace Solaris when Solaris will be 64bit and running on Opteron by the middle of this year.
I would say that your arguement is all over the place. Solaris cheaper, runs on x86 and yet you some how claim that it is going to be replaced by Linux running on the same hardware? that makes absolutely NO sense what so ever.
“Why do you think Linux is going to replace Solaris when Solaris will be 64bit and running on Opteron by the middle of this year.”
As before superior technology does not guarentee you anything. If that was true we’d all be using Amigas or some such. Alpha would reign supreme. Linux was replacing Sun machines in web servers when Sparc boxes were clearly technically superior, how would this be any different? Linux is growing at an increasing rate every year, and the wave is only getting bigger.
“I would say that your arguement is all over the place. Solaris cheaper, runs on x86 and yet you some how claim that it is going to be replaced by Linux running on the same hardware? that makes absolutely NO sense what so ever.”
Not from a purely technical perspective, no. But that is whats happening. Linux has buzz, Linux has increasing name-recognization, and its even trendy. Rationally Solaris is the better solution, but Alpha was also better then x86. Betamax over VHS. Etc etc. Windows NT 4 was gargage, and yet it grew like a mushroom cloud. My arguement is simple, Linux and its momentum is growing every single year. Its usage too is also growing and increasingly being diversified. Linux is not just for web servers anymore and 2.6 was a milestone not to be ignored.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/35002.html
If you build them, they will come. If this is any indication of Opterons popularity, be prepared to see companies flock to the Solaris platform.
If it were me, I would hype Solaris like had been never hyped before. Get customers thinking, breathing and wanting Solaris. It is unfortunate that their marketing sucks so badly, can anyone confirm whether SUNs marketing department are the reminants of DECs old one?
How is that smartcard thing working out for ya?
Sun Microsystems thinks they have leading technology, and in some cases they actually do. But their pricing is a bit high, which is changing rapidly, and their technology is less than impressive. I can implement almost all of its functionality by myself with cheap PCs and free software I can download off the internet AND modify AND sell.
So what value do Sun products have? Name brand and support.
I can support myself and any company I work for.
So I suggest you hire someone like me and build your infrastructure in-house, custom form-fit to your operations using software that allows you to do this. Some commercial software will work with you, most will not.