Dell Offers FreeDOS with New PCs
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli
why not ship with Knoppix at least?
Do they actually supply with FreeDOS the DOS device drivers for these computers’ hardware?
If you look at the Precisions, they have an option for RedHat Enterprise WS too.
My guess is that FreeDOS is a way to get around MS punishing manufacturers that sell PCs without OSes.
well, msft would punish one, about 3 seconds after I heard tell of it.
seriously, it’s time to consider higher legal prosecution.
>why not ship with Knoppix at least?
For two possible reasons:
1. They don’t want to anger MS and the contracts they got. MS would be most displeased if Dell offer more Linux support and that has an impact on the prices of Windows MS will offer to Dell (it has happened to other hardware companies when they tried to ship alternative OSes).
2. FreeDOS is easier to support, because it is a small piece of software. Remember, even if Dell says that “this software is unsupported”, people who don’t get it will still ring their support hotline and cost money to the company. Even the simplest full-featured Linux distro (e.g. slackware or knoppix) is many times bigger and more complex than FreeDOS. And Dell obviously doesn’t want support costs on their backs for it.
Is is fully functional? What bversion of MS-DOS is it comparable to? Can it play all my old dos-games? Anyone wnat to share their experience with it?
I used to run FreeDOS on Bochs and other emulators. I think it handled Duke Nukem pretty well, IIRC.
Too bad they don’t have laptops like this. I wanted to buy a laptop about 2 months ago but Dell wouldn’t sell me one without Windows XP (which would have saved me $100+ for an O/S I don’t use anyway.)
Another third reason is that if Dell hopes to sell this machine into business, we should not forget that still, many-many small businesses have their shop databases and business software running on DOS! They paid back in the ’80s or in the beginning of the ’90s for a custom-made software solution for their businesses, and of course, that was DOS-based. Today, it is surprisingly how many such businesses use the same custom software to do their job, because simply, it *works for them*.
So, by offering FreeDOS, Dell gets a good chance to sell a DOS solution to these people, and in the process they are saving a few bucks for both themselves and the consumers. These days it doesn’t make sense Dell to still buy MS-DOS from MS and support it, but at the same time there are still businesses asking for good DOS support for their ancient software. And so Dell found the solution with FreeDOS. Makes sense.
well Eugenia, MS is banned from punitive action on OEMs if they decided to ship other OSs or software that is no MS Software.
Last time I checked they went away with this action in the lawsuit with Be. They admitted “no wrongdoing”.
IIRC, Dell did try shipping dual-boot desktops for a time, but Microsoft quashed that pretty fast. They can’t ship a machine without any OS, because of Microsoft’s contract with them.
They do, however, ship workstations and servers with Linux.
While I can appreciate wanting a computer without Windows, this one is $319, which isn’t really that great of a deal considering they have another elsewhere on the site with the same processor (Celeron 2.4ghz) that contains XP, a CD burner, a 17 inch monitor, and speakers for a few dollars more ($399.)
So, when comparing these two PCs, where exactly does the ‘MS Tax’ come in ?
I think that its just nuts that a hardware manufacture cant choose what OS’s to offer just because of their “contract” w/ M$. That alone should be enough to show the US Gov that they are a Monopoly. How much more proof do they need?. If they dont cooperate w/ M$, then they lose Windows and go out of business!!. Sorry, I’m just sick of this crap. They should have gone down awhile back for the BeOS dual boot thing.
OSnews itself posted this back in 2002
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=1534
CNET Link
http://news.com.com/2100-1001-949671.html?tag=fd_top
that 80 bucks IS the MS tax.
A bit off topic, but I was just wondering. Does freedos have a tcp/ip stack, or access bigger partitions, are access ntfs, or anything like that?
I wonder if FreeDOS could/will be used as the DOS subsystem for ReactOS. Seems logical to me. From what I’ve seen, a number of the commands are right from FreeDOS anyway, like their horrible FreeCOM. The rest of FreeDOS is very nice however, and that’s why I was wondering.
that 80 bucks IS the MS tax.
Look again … the $399 PC comes with more stuff, including a 17 inch monitor. The computer that has FreeDOS on it has no monitor.
>that 80 bucks IS the MS tax.
The price of Windows XP for OEMs are between $28 and $35 US, not $80. For Dell, the price is obviously even lower as they get huge volumes of it.
>> MS would be most displeased if Dell offer more Linux support and that has an impact on the prices of Windows MS will offer to Dell
>>
Very true, but if DELL, of all people, cannot afford to anger microsoft, who can? I mean, this is Dell, not some little company in a garage. This is ridiculous. Nobody wants to annoy microsoft. Not Dell. Not HP. Not gateway. Not even IBM. No matter how you look at it, it is ridiculous that microsoft should be dictating not only how microsoft does its business, but also how OEMs sell their products. Dell and the rest should stand up for themselves for once, and stop cringing like whimpy babies.
we should not forget that still, many-many small businesses have their shop databases and business software running on DOS!
Anyone remember Caldera’s business model? Linux server with DOS workstations using a DOS-based web browser.
hmmmm . . .
Elsewhere I’ve read that DOS can now support USB 2.0, including USB harddrives:-)
Wonder if these Dell computers have a BIOS option for “boot into external USB harddrive”?
“The price of Windows XP for OEMs are between $28 and $35 US, not $80. For Dell, the price is obviously even lower as they get huge volumes of it.”
Your numbers are really close to the truth. A good deal of the so called MS Tax, is myth. The manufacturers are the ones charging a LOT for an OS they really didn’t pay much for. It’s really easy for Dell and others to blame MS, but it’s a scam to get that extra cash for the system. Needless to say, Dell isn’t paying much for a copy of XP Pro, but they are using it as a revenue generating item… Small wonder nearly all systems ship with a Windows OS, it might be the only real profitable item attached to a 349.00 pc.
As already mentioned, many companies still use DOS. I was given two computers last year that the local medical clinic was throwing away because they were upgrading. They were both 486sx’s with DOS installed. This was what they had been using for years and years in that particular office until they upgraded just six or seven months ago. From what I hear, there are other doctors’ offices in the clinic still using DOS. The goverment uses DOS still, too. The local ‘Career Center’ (unemployment office) just upgraded to new computers and Windows 2000 – but the workers still use an old DOS program to do most of their work.
Having said that, I don’t think that Dell is doing this to attract these companise into upgrading. I think they are doing it because of Microsoft. Sure, they aren’t suppossed to punish companies that sell OS-less PC’s, but do you actually think they don’t find some way to?
I think this is “news” because the old story didn’t contain any real way to buy the darn things. at least this time there is a link to the actual shopping site.
I think this is the first time I’ve seen a tier 1 vendor with OS-less (relativley) workstations other than higher end kit.
“The price of Windows XP for OEMs are between $28 and $35 US, not $80. For Dell, the price is obviously even lower as they get huge volumes of it.”
No, my store pays $83 for each copy of Windows XP Home OEM. I know cause I look at the cost stickers, and I watch my boss order it.
I am still unsure why everyone sells it for the same price though; well the boxed edition that is.
Eugenia: Last time I checked they went away with this action in the lawsuit with Be. They admitted “no wrongdoing”.
This is unrelated to the Be antitrust case. The settlement for that major federal case against Microsoft has a clause against punitive punishment against OEMs and prices fixed upon volume.
blixel: Too bad they don’t have laptops like this. I wanted to buy a laptop about 2 months ago but Dell wouldn’t sell me one without Windows XP (which would have saved me $100+ for an O/S I don’t use anyway.)
Actually, if American OEMs can get an OEM license for some $40; I doubt Dell pays $100 (or any more than $40 for that matter. In other words, you save like $20-30?
Too bad they don’t have laptops like this. I wanted to buy a laptop about 2 months ago but Dell wouldn’t sell me one without Windows XP (which would have saved me $100+ for an O/S I don’t use anyway.)
So don’t buy a Del…
(Or am I thinking too far outside the box ?)
I think that its just nuts that a hardware manufacture cant choose what OS’s to offer just because of their “contract” w/ M$.
Yeah, it’s nuts how Dell can’t just up and break the legally binding contracts they’ve signed just because 0.5% of their customers tell them to.
That alone should be enough to show the US Gov that they are a Monopoly.
Not unless it can be shown Dell didn’t enter the contract willingly (in which case said contract would be null & void anyway).
If they dont cooperate w/ M$, then they lose Windows and go out of business!!.
I wish you people would make up your minds and decide whether it’s “PC makers only bundle Windows because they *have* to, most of their customers don’t want Windows with their computer at all !”, or “Since all their customers want Windows, they have to sell Windows or they’ll go out of business.”.
Anyone remember Caldera’s business model?
Sure do:
1. Buy DR-DOS
2. Sue Microsoft
3. Profit !
Or, in the ’00s:
1. Claim Linux has infringed their IP
2. Sue IBM
3. Profit !
I installed the new FreeDos from ISO image and it works GREAT from my MAC VPC! It even has a graphical installer!!
Your boss may pay $83 for xp home oem, but that doesn’t mean it’s a good deal. I found a source for xp home for $55, license only, no media, no manual. Dell (obviously) gets that for far cheaper than i could.
Win 98 SE is around $36 in single quantity. Lots of options to put on a microtel or dell no OS.
I agree the MS tax isn’t too steep unless u start bundling it with Office or something. In the case of the walmart microtels though there is a marked difference. Comparable systems will be $100 more if xp home is added ($199 vs $299). In that case i save a bundle by getting the no OS or lindows box, and putting slackware on it.
1. Buy DR-DOS
2. Sue Microsoft
3. Profit !
Or, in the ’00s:
1. Claim Linux has infringed their IP
2. Sue IBM
3. Profit !
LOL – I didn’t mention that one ’cause I didn’t want to be modded down yet again 🙂
The funny things is that Novell sold both DR-DOS (directly) and Unix (indirectly) to Caldera. Both resulted in sue for profit business models.
BTW, DR-DOS (www.drdos.com) lists Dell as a company that uses their products.
The MS/P4 tax isn’t a myth. The only way you can get Win-XP or the P4 chip for the low price is to buy the total system from Dell. MS has done a good job of allowing makers to beat down total system costs, especially on the mainboard. They [MS] allow the maker to sell the Win-XP Pro version at a premium which is probably gravy for the maker. You can’t buy a P4 chip or Win-XP Pro at anywhere near Dell’s OEM cost in the aftermarket should you try to build your own system. This is the pricing model that makes it no more expensive to buy than to build yourself. MS and Intel structure the aftermarket pricing to motivate the customer to buy a complete system from one of their prefered partners. It’s does seem that, in light of this, Linux really doesn’t offer any substantial cost advantage for the OEM’s.
The WHOLE issue is CHOICE people. It’s NOT about how much or how little. It’s the ability to choose whichever OS you want and not have to pay for one that you are not going to use.
I have Zero computers at home that run Windows. I have Zero MS software or hardware on any computer. I run OS/2, Lindows 4.0 (NON ROOT) dual boot with BeOSMax, and I have an iMac.
In order to not get anything MS I had to buy the parts and build my computers. There should be an easy way from any computer company to choose what OS you have installed. And if you choose not to have any MS hardware and software MS should not get any money. Simple as that.
To put it another way. If I bought a Jeep. Ford and Chevy shouldn’t get any money. And Ford and Chevy shouldn’t have any say (no body there to hassle me) when I go to buy my brand of choice.
“The WHOLE issue is CHOICE people. It’s NOT about how much or how little. It’s the ability to choose whichever OS you want and not have to pay for one that you are not going to use.”
I agree.
“In order to not get anything MS I had to buy the parts and build my computers.”
An you obviously have that choice.
“The price of Windows XP for OEMs are between $28 and $35 US, not $80. For Dell, the price is obviously even lower as they get huge volumes of it.” (Eugenia)
No, my store pays $83 for each copy of Windows XP Home OEM. I know cause I look at the cost stickers, and I watch my boss order it. (Chris)
Your boss may pay $83 for xp home oem, but that doesn’t mean it’s a good deal. I found a source for xp home for $55, license only, no media, no manual. Dell (obviously) gets that for far cheaper than i could. (XMP)
USD55 for a media-less licence for MS-Windows XP Home OEM and USD83 for a with-media copy seems consistent with the what I would estimate the UK wholesale prices to be (i.e. what I get when I allow 10% mark-up for the cheapest mail-order OEM copy I can find (or 40% for the average mail-order OEM copy)).
Eugenia’s USD28-35 figure sounds very suspicious to me. I Am always amazed that any company can negotiate significant volume discounts with MS, because volume discounts rely on a free market (i.e. winning Dells business would only be important to MS if there was a chance they could loose it (which there isn’t, realistically)).
has anyone install linux on these things? i don’t have time to build, but i do run linux. i want to know how good these things really are for the price?
Thats what I was trying to say
DOSBOX is MUCH further along than FREEDOS reguarding games.
FREE DOS doesn’t yet support protected mode memory. That means it only sees 1MB of ram. That means that NO GAMES that have the “DOS4GW” screen will function. NONE.
FreeDOS is just what it’s name suggests, a free version of DOS.
DOSBOX is able to run DOS programs on any platform, like Wine, but it even runs on WIN XP.
DOSBOX 0.6 has preliminary support for protected mode memory, so some games work, albeit VERY SLOWLY.
once DOSBOX gets faster, it will be the one most people would prefer to use since you can use your Linux or Windows desktop, and still support your old DOS game or APP, whereas FREEDOS would require drivers for your hardware & atleast a GUI like SEAL 2.0 or something similar.
In order to not get anything MS I had to buy the parts and build my computers.
No, you didn’t. You *chose* not to use an OEM that would sell you an OS-less machine.=, or a machine without a different OS to Windows.
There should be an easy way from any computer company to choose what OS you have installed.
Are you saying companies should not be able to enter into exclusivity contracts ? That’s a pretty big keystone of modern business and product differentiation. Soft drinks, wines, clothing, shoes, etc. Happens everywhere.
And if you choose not to have any MS hardware and software MS should not get any money. Simple as that.
It’s already as simple as that (and always has been). If you don’t want to pay Microsoft, don’t buy any of their products – directly or indirectly.
I wish you people would at least be honest with your complains and write “I can’t buy some models of [Dell|Compaq|IBM|$MICROSOFT_OEM] computers without Windows” instead of “I can’t buy a computer without Windows”. It would make you sound a lot more believable.
Which protected mode memory are you referring to? EMS? VCPI? DPMI? Perhaps DPMS? Only things you can’t get with FreeDOS are VCPI (EMM386 hasn’t gotten this far yet)and DPMS (Digital Research’s technology not used anywhere else). EMS manager is there (the same ‘ol EMM386), DPMI… looked just through the latest beta distribution and yes, CWSDPMI ain’t being distributed with FreeDOS. But it comes with about every DJGPP program. And there’s always the possibility of downloading DPMIONE and running that.
FreeDos is as functional as MS DOS 6.22, and better in many ways. Its probably better supported than DR-DOS 7, and it looks like it will continue to be supportted in the foreseeable future. PC-DOS 2000 still isn’t free. If you know about MS-DOS 7.0 and 7.1, you already know enough
http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=5810#193039
If you know the dark secrets of Microsoft DOS 7 and 7.1, then you’re ready to explore FreeDOS