Home > Gnome > GNOME Development Release 2.5.3 GNOME Development Release 2.5.3 Eugenia Loli 2004-02-03 Gnome 54 Comments The GNOME Development Release 2.5.3 is ready for testing. To build, you will also need packages like the hicolor-icon-theme and shared-mime-info from freedesktop.org (not distributed with Gnome). About The Author Eugenia Loli Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker. Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 54 Comments 2004-02-03 8:47 am I’ve just finished build it myself, couldn’t wait ((((((( so much time wasted 2004-02-03 8:49 am so much time wasted That’s open source for ya, hehe! I know how you feel. 2004-02-03 10:01 am Gnome is a big desktop, but…¿Somebody know when will be disponible the final version of kde 3.2? 2004-02-03 10:05 am It’s syncing to the FTP mirrors this moment. Release announcement in some hours. 2004-02-03 10:22 am The end of March is looking good. Fedora 2 should include the new desktop releases along with 2.6.2. 2004-02-03 11:00 am Does anybody have an idea how to update Fedora to the development version? (i.e. GNOME 2.5, etc). I’ve addedd all repositories I could find (freshrpm’s, livna, Fedora’s own) to yum.conf, but it doesn’t appear to be in there… 2004-02-03 11:15 am http://www.kde.org/announcements/announce-3.2.php 2004-02-03 11:54 am I am currently running Fedora Development which includes Gnome 2.5.3. I have to say and don’t flame me for saying it, I hate the Nautilus spatial view, it reminds me of my Windows 95 Days, does anyone else agree on this. I have used Gnome over KDE for many months now but this is one thing that will put me off. In reply to Jaroom, you have to use Yum to update to the Development release. You need to uncomment or add the line in your /etc/yum.conf file that specifies the development release and then type in “yum update”. However, I wouldn’t bother at the moment as it is unstable and things crash alot such as Nautilus and the gnome-panel. 2004-02-03 12:01 pm About spatial Nautilus. I’ve used the Amiga at untill late 1998, so for me it isn’t that long ago I was using a spatial desktop. Now I’m using spatial Nautilus, I discover that I’m still storing my data in a spatial friendly way (no very deep directory trees). For me it is like coming home. I love the speed improvement 2004-02-03 12:44 pm I haven’t tried GNOME 2.5 yet, but I *really* hope the spatial feature is optional. I remember back in the early days of the Mac, it’s how the Finder worked, and it was really painful having all these windows open. When I got a PC with Win95, it’s the first thing I changed in the setup: no spatial. I understand some people find it better or prefer that way, but it’s not to everyone taste. The spatial code being new, I *suppose* they kept the non-spatial code in there… 2004-02-03 12:48 pm While I think of it, does anyone know if they plan to release a “Tabbed Nautilus” ?… just like there are now “Tabbed browsers”, so convenient! 2004-02-03 1:22 pm Is there a screenshot of this, or does it look the same, but behave differently? 2004-02-03 1:33 pm It’s possible to switch “spatial-mode” off if u don’t like it. >I am currently running Fedora Development which includes Gnome 2.5.3. I have to say and don’t flame me for saying it, I hate the Nautilus spatial view, it reminds me of my Windows 95 Days, does anyone else agree on this. I have used Gnome over KDE for many months now but this is one thing that will put me off. >In reply to Jaroom, you have to use Yum to update to the Development release. You need to uncomment or add the line in your /etc/yum.conf file that specifies the development release and then type in “yum update”. However, I wouldn’t bother at the moment as it is unstable and things crash alot such as Nautilus and the gnome-panel. 2004-02-03 1:45 pm “It’s possible to switch “spatial-mode” off if u don’t like it. ” How do you turn it off? go to http://www.akcaagac.com/index_cvsgnome.html to see screenshots of nautilus in spatial view 2004-02-03 1:56 pm So what if they say that KDE 3.2 was released in a Gnome thread? You people are behaving like kids. Fighting all the time over things like Gnome and KDE. Why can’t you keep an open mind and be objective about these things? So Gnome 2.5.3 is released – Great, KDE 3.2 is released – Great too, so let’s all be happy about the news and not turn this into a war. From my point of view, I am thankfull to have both compete against eachother, as this will exploit to the max the talent of the developers. And this will in turn make the Linux experience more complete – which will answer our search question for the perfect OS. :::PROUD TO LIVE IN THE BIRTHLAND OF LINUX::: 2004-02-03 2:28 pm Exactly – Diversity in the Linux desktop is a good thing. The competition helps each to develop faster. The growing cooperation is beginning to allow better interoperability. Gnome is good KDE is good XFce is good I like having a choice ! 2004-02-03 2:54 pm > Is there a screenshot of this, or does it look the same, > but behave differently? http://www.astercity.net/~fennwick/scary_spatial.png You can still use old behaviour by right-clicking the folder and choosing ‘Browse filesystem’, but default double-click opens these almost unusable windows (axactly like old win95 explorer). I really hate that feature, along with Epiphany’s download dialog it really makes one think about switching While I find HIG ok most of the times (consistency on the desktop is good), overHIGgified apps in my opinion are not the right choice; they may not confuse new users that much, but surely they make a lot of other people angry. 2004-02-03 2:55 pm Diversity will foster competition and innovation, but what it also does that is perhaps more important is that it creates stability, it makes the platform independent of a single controlling vendor interest. It would be nice to have a couple more heavy weight DE’s. 2004-02-03 2:58 pm you people should understand something about spatial before writing that kind of critics. win 95 didnt have a spatial mode.. it tried to immitate one.. and it did it badly. but its simple, linux is about choice. dont like it, dont use it, there are plenty of DEs available(kde included). Anyway, you can use the old-nautilus-view… i, for one, welcome the new spatial nautilus! 2004-02-03 3:06 pm > Anyway, you can use the old-nautilus-view… I would not complain, if the view was configurable. > i, for one, welcome the new spatial nautilus! Try to use it for a while, especially on mounted folder trees, with 20 or more opened windows on your desktop. IIRC that was supposed to remove the clutter? 2004-02-03 3:22 pm >Anyway, you can use the old-nautilus-view… I would not complain, if the view was configurable. afaik it is configurable via gconf. 2004-02-03 3:26 pm it is not configurable in that way. you can use the old nautilus with –browser or something like that. of course the spatial one is not the be used to BROWSE a filesystem, thats why they preserved the ‘old’ one… you have to understand the spatial concept of things before talking like that. i use the spatial and i’m happy with it 2004-02-03 3:28 pm try reading this spatial article @ arstechnica.com: http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/f/finder/finder-1.html its big, but its worth it. 2004-02-03 3:33 pm > you have to understand the spatial concept of things > before talking like that. this is so futile. try to tell ‘you have to understand’ to my wife, who is not a geek, she just uses computer for everyday work and thinks that now (with spatial) it takes much more time to get to the files she needs. desktop for the people, or the people for the desktop? 2004-02-03 3:40 pm just because she got used to use it in a way! just habits! nothing else… the concept of spatial is much more realist than the current browing methods 2004-02-03 3:44 pm There is an alternative to Gnome and KDE, try fluxbox and use Midnight Commander as your file manager. Just because it is not in one package doesn’t mean you can not have a desktop environment. Of course, someone will say that there is too much work involved creating a DE from pieces. Gnome and KDE offer a lot but it comes at a price which is memory. Combining pieces makes the desktop look like it came in pieces but what is more important looks or functionality? I think the reason why people post KDE news in a Gnome thread and vice versa, is because people like to take sides. You can not have a discussion about Good without Bad crashing in. Ford and Chevy. Chocolate and vanilla. Java and C#. Windows and Linux. So on and so on. Just something you have to live with. 2004-02-03 3:54 pm > just because she got used to use it in a way! You do not get used to things, that are not comfortable. That’s why I never got used to KDE, even though I started using it before I’ve tried Gnome, it just didn’t feel right. Same with spatial, ‘understanding’ has nothing to do with it, it’s just not efficient way to manage files. Maybe one day, with 3D screens and 3D pointers it will be appreciated, but on 2D screen it’s some kind of ugly Frankenstein, neither pretty, neither efficient. 2004-02-03 3:57 pm sorry, i dont agree with you. I hated the “spatial” in windows, and i love it in gnome. You just have to know how it works.. it makes much more sense. But once again, dont like it, dont use it. The “old” nautilus is there. 2004-02-03 4:14 pm ummm…yes there are plenty of DEs available for Linux…my Slackware 9.1 install had about 6 different ones installed by default, not counting GNOME and KDE since I didn’t install those; I opted for Dropline GNOME and no KDE (since I hate KDE with a passion…don’t know why). I agree and disagree about “others are too simple and incomplete to be usable as every day working environments” since many of those DEs follow a minimalist philosophy and therefore, the less the better. This might not appeal to some (like myself, and apparently you), but there are still many people that prefer this approach. XFCE4 is the one DE which is kind of minimalist which I enjoy using at times, partly because it is a mix of minimalism and GNOME (though I hate their file manager). 2004-02-03 4:16 pm actually i like minimalist DEs. xfce is one of my favourites, i translated it to my native language the file managers is just weird..or you love it, or you hate it. but believe me its powerfull, it can do things that not even konqueror can 2004-02-03 4:17 pm I have redhat 9.0 but i am not sure which GNOME version it shipped with. I tried using GNOME but it just choke my machine. And forget about using GNOME remotely. I have a 11 MBPS wireless router and GNOME takes so long to open menus if i use X on my windows box where as KDE runs pretty fast. I mean on redhat both looks the same but KDE is much faster. Why will someone go with GNOME. I wish GNOME team should have spent their time making KDE better. Why to have so many desktops and none that can beat Mac/XP capabilities SAD Also, can a GNOME die-hard fan tell some advantages of using GNOME over KDE? – Wolf 2004-02-03 4:18 pm Don’t take it too serious 😉 GNOME’s perspective of the world is, that users are stupid and developers are smart. Therefore developing for GNOME is hard but the result (the GNOME desktop) is going to be minimalistic. KDE, on other side, means, users are smart and developers are stupid. It’s reletive easy to develop KDE Apps and the desktop is going to be more and more bloated. Smart user can konfigure “their” to death. Both are wrong 🙂 2004-02-03 4:20 pm I have redhat 9.0 but i am not sure which GNOME version it shipped with. I tried using GNOME but it just choke my machine. And forget about using GNOME remotely. I have a 11 MBPS wireless router and GNOME takes so long to open menus if i use X on my windows box where as KDE runs pretty fast. I mean on redhat both looks the same but KDE is much faster. Why will someone go with GNOME. I wish GNOME team should have spent their time making KDE better. Why to have so many desktops and none that can beat Mac/XP capabilities SAD Also, can a GNOME die-hard fan tell some advantages of using GNOME over KDE? – Wolf 2004-02-03 4:52 pm Glad to see [u]both[/u] improving……. KDE is good GNOME is improving – (good to see) XFce is currently too buggy/lacking in user-freindly features – hope it improves aswell. 2004-02-03 4:59 pm >>”If you don’t like GNOME, just shut up and don’t use it”. Just to inform you, this thread is about Gnome. Why can I not critizise Gnome if I think is does not have as many apps as KDE/is as fast and stable as KDE? This is a forum, or in words you can understand: a place for discussion! >> “Competition is always good as it usually leads to innovation.” I agree. And I have not said that Gnome should stop, just that I think KDE is better 2004-02-03 5:05 pm 2004-02-03 5:08 pm Uh… The link on the first line of my previous comment is just a quite of course. 2004-02-03 5:10 pm (preview or edit would rock) 2004-02-03 5:10 pm I’ve been running the gnome 2.5.2 development release on gentoo for a while now and although at first i found the spatial nautilus to be a bit unwieldy, i’m starting to get used to it. I’m using the Milk 2.0 theme (check out http://www.users.monornet.hu/linux/index2.html , the guy who ported it has made other very clean looking themes), and with the maturing of applications like TvTime ( http://tvtime.sf.net ), OpenOffice, Gaim etc. the periods that i spend in Gnome are getting longer while i find myself booting back to XP less and less. I’ve used and tested most releases from both KDE and Gnome since the pre-1.0 days and switched on/off from one to the other, but over time i found myself gravitating more towards Gnome. I felt KDE was getting too cluttered and gimmicky, while Gnome before release 2.2 was too un-polished for my taste. Now, since 2.2, i get the feeling everything seems to be coming together and several exciting things are happening (Gstreamer, Evolution, Mono, Robert Love’s work, etc). The only thing i find sorely lacking is a good Cd/Dvd burning application. I’d really like to see a Gnome burning application with similar capabilities to Nero or one of the several programs that are available for KDE. That, and a good media player. I know there are several, but all of them annoy me at one or another point and none have been able to surpass Winamp for me so far, and Winamp5 just upped the ante. Totem is nice but isn’t really suited for sound only, Rhythmbox is potentially very cool but doesn’t support plugins and bombs at random moments for me, especially when using the Gstreamer backend. Beep doesn’t support some of the plugins i’ve grown accustomed to in Xmms, Xmms is gtk1 only (ick!) etc etc. Oh, now that i’m solidly in complain-modus, the quality of the comment section seems to be deteriorating rapidly over here with all the trolls and juvenile behaviour. It might be advisable to weed agressively before this place turns out worse than slashdot at -1. >:) 2004-02-03 5:15 pm You (Spark) sound like you want to convince someone that Spatial is better, or/and is what they need. Do not try to force someone to adopt what *you* like. We all have different tastes *and* needs. In general, I’m surprised of these wars between KDE vs GNOME or Spatial vs Hierarchical. Why not just all admit that others will always come up with something different than what you think is best (for you). Why not accept difference rather than trying to convert infidels to your own religion ? GNOME and KDE are both excellent desktops which cater to slightly different needs, people or environments. Spatial and Hierarchical serve different needs too. That’s all. Let’s all be constructive here. We *all* use Linux 🙂 2004-02-03 5:19 pm I tried fluxbox. I tried XFCE, ROX-Desktop, Blackbox, Windowmaker, FVWM… And while they’re very nice they don’t offer me the level of integration that GNOME (and KDE too) does. But I don’t think there’s a point in continuing this discussion here. I see my previous comment was modded down, so this one will likely be modded down too. You can try to reach me at #gnome at irc.gnome org. PS Happy moderating Eugenia. 2004-02-03 5:40 pm have u tried using gnome over a compressed ssh tunnel. i run gnome just fine over my 11mbit wireless heck i even run it from school over my even slower dsl connection no problems at all but then i use ssh with compression so you migth want to try that 2004-02-03 5:50 pm vtg: Have you tried Muine? It does not have any plugins, visualization or other fancy features, but it has a very nice interface for simply playing music. I love it. It’s still very young and from the developer who wrote most of Rhythmbox before deciding that he doesn’t like the iTunes interface.  http://people.nl.linux.org/~jorn/Muine/ 2004-02-03 5:59 pm You (Spark) sound like you want to convince someone that Spatial is better, or/and is what they need. Do not try to force someone to adopt what *you* like. We all have different tastes *and* needs. Please read again… Because I don’t know where you get this from. I explicitly started my post with “If you don’t like spatial Nautilus, fine” and even gave some suggestions how he could use the (still included) browser more efficiently. I’m against generally saying “it sucks” without even trying to use it the way it’s meant to be used. 2004-02-03 7:42 pm Something I’d really like is Gnome merge with Mono. 2004-02-03 8:20 pm Any RPM builds for Fedora or Redhat? 2004-02-03 8:37 pm As an ex RH9 and Fedora user (i’ve been on Slackware for two days now…yey!) i will attest that there’s something fishy about GNOME in those distros…response was pretty good but still a bit slow. Now that i’m on Slack w/ Dropline GNOME i can really see a BIG speed difference. 2004-02-03 10:06 pm > please don’t be rediculous like that. Are you trying to insult me? Of course the screenshot is silly, but it shows exactly what the problem with new Nautilus is. Five opened windows is already too much. If I want to d’n’d some files it gets even messier. I use Gnome in the office, and quite frequently I have to get files from shared directories, which I have mounted under /mnt. And yes, they do have 10+ level folder trees. Oh, I could make shortcuts, I could even mount whole bunch of folders directly under ~/Desktop, but it won’t make my work any more efficient, since my desktop will get cluttered. And I have to remember to reorganize my shortcuts everytime shared folders are reorganized. > why do you start from “Computer” instead of launching the > filesystem browser? Well, I do that, but really like double-clicking, which starts spatial mode. Glad to read, that I can change this setting using mimetypes properties, but wouldn’t a checkbox in Nautilus options make more sense? > The only thing that can be slightly irritating is having > several folders labeled “src” on my screen I forgot to mention that one > GNOME is not (anymore) for people who dislike change or > never want to change their working habits. You should try > to use it the way it is meant to be used and then get used > to it for a while. But doesnt’t this break whole HIG argument? I can learn even triple-clicking with Alt-something pressed at the same time, but it’s not as much intuitive as it’s innovative. Changes are fine, although there should be a *choice*, that’s why we all use Linux in the first place. > Then you can offer specific arguments for what doesn’t > work well for you and this can be discussed about. Read my lips: spatial nautilus does not work well with large folder trees, I’ve used it, and I’m trying to point that here. But again, I don’t want spatial mode to be thrown out from nautilus completely, I just want a simple (don’t mention gconf) way of changing my preferred settings. Even mimetypes are not clear for everyone, checkboxes are 2004-02-03 10:31 pm Try double-click with middle button on any folder, and you won’t get hundreds of opened window. 2004-02-03 11:12 pm > Try double-click with middle button on any folder, and you won’t get hundreds of opened window. Are There any documents where explain all this stuff? 2004-02-03 11:19 pm wouldn’t a 1st time druid be nice to set options like the default mode for nautilus, ximian desktop used to have something like that. 2004-02-03 11:32 pm Are you trying to insult me? ?? If I want to d’n’d some files it gets even messier. On the other hand, DND becomes a lot easier if you never have to explicitly open a second window. Folder windows also take up a lot less screen space now, so it’s much easier to place two windows besides each other. Well, I do that, but really like double-clicking, which starts spatial mode. Like I said you could simply place a shortcut to the browser on your desktop (or panel, whatever you prefer). How is doubleclicking on a launcher any different from doubleclicking on Computer? but wouldn’t a checkbox in Nautilus options make more sense? I don’t think so, as you are explicitly setting an application (the filesystem browser) as the default handler for Folder objects. Of course both are “Nautilus”, but the user might not even know that. This is also not something that is really meant to be configurable, as there are plenty of other possibilities to open a folder in a browser window. Why lock yourself out of the possibility to open a desktop folder in a “simple” view? But doesnt’t this break whole HIG argument? I can learn even triple-clicking with Alt-something pressed at the same time, but it’s not as much intuitive as it’s innovative. No, it’s not about “learning”. It’s just about being open minded to actually change your habits. If you are forced to use software a certain way because of your job or anything else, then this is of course a different story (you didn’t mention this at all in your first posting). Changes are fine, although there should be a *choice*, that’s why we all use Linux in the first place. GNOME is the choice of a software that “just works” instead of trying to be everything for everyone. This is basically how most CLI programs have always worked. They don’t allow you to use them in 100 different ways (excluding Emacs) and if you think that one tool sucks, your “choice” is to use another tool. Interoperability between those tools is the key to keep this choice. spatial nautilus does not work well with large folder trees Maybe it doesn’t, but consider this: – It works pretty well if you use some keyboard shortcuts for navigation (and/or double-middleclick), because this allows you (among other things) to close the parent folder while opening a new folder. This way you can navigate into very deep trees without getting your screen cluttered. You can also “close all parents”, which serves a similar approach. In other words, while spatial isn’t designed to be used with deep trees, it’s not as painful as you make it out to be. – Deep trees are an exception for usual users and something you can avoid rather easily. Basically they are only hard to avoid for system administrators and people like you, who are forced to work with deep trees which they have no influence on. – Those users (which are the exception) have plenty of possibilities, including learning and using the shortcuts, using the file browser (starting from $HOME or using the context menu entry), changing the default handler for folders to the file browser or using another tool alltogether (like ROX, Velocity, etc). Also notice that this started as an experiment. A very popular experiment so far, so it will most probably stay, but that doesn’t mean that the maintainers won’t listen if users have particular problems. But making up problems like on your screenshot doesn’t help and won’t make anyone listen, that’s why I called that “rediculous”. It is very much understood that sometimes people will still be forced to use deep trees and that spatial doesn’t exactly excell for that, otherwise the file browser would have been scrapped alltogether. I just want a simple (don’t mention gconf) way of changing my preferred settings. Even mimetypes are not clear for everyone, checkboxes are Don’t forget that mimetype configuration is planned to become a LOT simpler. Of course this “trick” (using the file browser as default handler for folders) will never be “clear for everyone”, but that’s because it really shouldn’t be necessary. It’s just to show you that you _do_ have the choice. 2004-02-04 2:53 am On the other hand, DND becomes a lot easier if you never have to explicitly open a second window. Folder windows also take up a lot less screen space now, so it’s much easier to place two windows besides each other. I’m with you on this. However, there is one subtle but important feature which makes using spatial nautilus easier to use – the fact that screen positions for individual folders are remembered. I didn’t think that it would have a significant impact, but you actually do start relating to the positions of different folders on screen. Spark: See, first of all it’s pointless to go to Computer -> Filesystem -> home -> yourname to access your home folder. You just click yourname’s home on the desktop Is there a link for the home folder on the desktop? With the previous developer version (2.5.2 I think), there was no such link.Only the “Computer”,”Start Here”, and “Trash” links. Has this been included in this release? Ramanan 2004-02-04 10:01 am …and bookmarks will be here to save time. Spatial Nautilus and a very convenient way to handle bookmarks will be a killer app!