In this month’s Web Server Survey the number of IP addresses with sites using ASP.NET has overtaken those using JSP and Java Servlets. The number of IP addresses found with ASP.NET has shown very strong growth in the past year with a 224% increase from 17.2K to 55.8K. JSP & Java Servlets despite being overtaken is the next fastest growing in percentage terms with a 56% increase, says Netcraft.
ASP.NET Overtakes JSP and Java Servlets?
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http://javalobby.org/thread.jspa?forumID=61&threadID=11981
Read this thread Java web apps donot require jsp or servlet any more.
Well if they’re not gonna open-source Java, they had better do something quick. I’ve seen .NET go from fringe technology, to an installation here and there, to more prominent than java. If Sun doesn’t do something about this quick, then there goes their last lifeline.
Sun Microsystems can be entirely too complacent sometimes.
I rarely see sites that run cold fusion anymore so what gives with the high number in their survey? Also they are leaving out php and even cgi. How can you have cold fusion and leave out these two. Makes no sense.
I used to develop with java servlets used php a bit and now I use asp.net and c# soley. The nice thing is that with c# now you can develop fairly robust web applications and with the same language develop fairly robust gui applications. While the same is technically true with java java guis leave ALOT to be desired. Oh and c# guis are much faster.
The figures are based on the following signatures:
* ASP.NET – local references to ASP.NET file extensions are found on the front page of the site.
* Java Servlets – local references to .jhtml, .jsp, .gsp file extensions, or a local url starting “/servlets”.
Making a news annoucement like this is not responsible.
There are plenty of servlets that don’t start with /servlets. In addition, as web frameworks have gotten popular in the last couple of years, you have to include (.do, /do, .vm,.m .action, .ftl, … AND many others).
ASP has ALWAYS been more populator than JSP/Servlets. ASP.Net is not a threat, its just a “new version”. JSP is growing rapidly, so dont go talk about sun failing. you are the ones who are failing if you say that
this survey does not seem accurate.
There is no point to a survey like this. It can’t take into account the huge number of internal sites or sites that are external to a company but not visible to the public.
As to ColdFusion it is still used a lot. At this point its just another template language sitting on top of a Java servlet container.
I agree, this chart is kind of pointless. I mean, PHP is used a hell of a lot more than Coldfusion — perhaps not in enterprise solutions per se, but on the Web generally. Why is this language missing? Also, as others have pointed out, using URLs to determine the language used is kind of silly. Any Web server admin can easily make PHP scripts work with .html or any other extension. Or you can cut out extensions entirely by using Apache’s mod_rewrite to generate fake URLs. How will Netcraft figure THAT out?
Jared
I don’t think Netcraft’s statements have ever been made with an air of statistical accuracy. They simply make observations and state the basis for those observations. It is unfortunate, though, that the observations have sensational headlines.
The relevant question here is, is this a representative survey? The total numbers of servers/sites that they are describing seems rather low compared to the total number of web hosts, which number in the millions. The web server platform survey (“Apache vs. IIS”) is usually regarded as more accurate, because they attempt a complete survey of the web, not a sampling. I would agree with the other posts that criticize the absence of PHP or CGI as part of this survey. I program with ASP 3.0, and we have seen little reason to switch to .NET, mostly because our customers don’t have the need for it and don’t have the framework installed on their systems.
Where do all of you get the idea that ColdFusion isn’t used much? I’m not saying it was good to leave out PHP or anything, but ColdFusion is huge.
Techinically speaking ColdFusion is Java, since the runtime is 100% Java nowadays and interoperate with 100% other technologies seemlessly.
As usual, the anti-“M$” nuts are in denial. People dance around every study or report that reveals anything pro-Microsoft, and automatically applaud any biased Linux report sponsored by, say, IBM.
This is the primary reason why C# and ASP.NET are gaining market share in leaps and bounds. Have any of you ever tried writing a Web app using VS.NET? Seriously?!? My hat’s off to Microsoft. They’ve made writing and debugging Web apps nearly as simple and straightforward as writing a desktop app. Java IDEs are crap. Don’t even mention Eclipse or Forte. Crap. I’ve tried ’em all. VS.NET isn’t perfect — but it’s a helluva lot better than anything I’ve seen in the way of Java tools.
And let’s give credit where credit is due: MS *has* opened up C# to ECMA, provided shared source CLR code to the academic community, and doesn’t charge a dime for the C# compiler and .NET framework. Sun is holding Java so tight that it will probably end up strangling it. It reminds me of that U2 song “Dirty Day”: “You can hold onto something so tight… You’ve already lost it…” That’s Sun [Queue the image of the Japanese Zero plummeting into the Pacific].
try intellij .
and then come back, and say me, java IDE’s are crap. Intellij ist the best IDE out there – and it’s a lot btter as VS.NET.
>>to df: As usual, the anti-“M$” nuts are in denial.
That’s nothing to do with this survey.
You haven’t even looked at the site…I suspect.
On the first look Coldfusion seem to be the market leader in dynamic websites…
Are they kidding?
Coldfusion was popular years ago when in a rush even designer had to build a shop.
But I’m sure that the ratio between sites using CF and those that are using php is 1:50
>>blah:ASP has ALWAYS been more populator than JSP/Servlets.
Well you are giving kudos to your name.
ASP plays in the same league as php or perl.
JSP/Servlets stood – until the arrival of .Net – miles away from VBScripting ASP.
ASP stands out against php and obviously lost this battle in the last years(what do you think does the market share of Apache and MySQL mean? Does those shops are using ASP???).
One of the biggest german it-magazines Computerwoche -specialized in enterprise information – made a survey between the biggest german companys.
It’s not surprising that JEEE there holds the top-position.
With a great leap to the second ASP.Net
In this interview CF or ASP or PHP aren’t even mentioned.
So far the quality of this half-baken study.
hear hear. i too swear by intellij. it even has a vim plugin, which keeps my unix side complacent.
the thread linked in the first post was informative and worth a read.
whoever saying this that there are more number of pages available on internet of ASP.NET pls dont forget about the perl and php part still this technologies and best to develope the web based applications then any other techs.
JSR 223: Scripting Pages in Java Web Applications
http://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=223
Macromedai and Zend also in a ‘Expert Group’ of this JSR
(as well as IBM and Oracle, to mentioned other ‘BIG’ names)
so, i guess, they will put their ColdFusion and PHP there for sure.
this are news from Zend side
Zend to intregrates PHP to Java
http://www.zend.com/news/zendpr.php?id=67
http://www.zend.com/news/zendpr.php?id=63
so at least we will have 3 web scripting languages for Java platform – JSP, ColdFusion, PHP
(and may be Python via Jython .. I’m not sure about this anyway).
Netcraft’s report told us only that JSP got lesser *growth* than ASP.NET, the web scripting languages.
but nothing about Java and .NET, the platforms.
go create a language and open source it then, try taking IP that makes your company successful and give it away for free. See what the shareholders do to you- you’ll be fired. If IBM created Java the’d no doubt be holding tighter onto it. Sun creates specifications and you should follow it. Sure you can create a JAVA-like alternative but that would take alot of work(there might be patent issues too, most likely). It’s getting faster and smarter and until it stops getting faster I won’t tell sun to open source it. Sun has opened up more things than IBM has ever done, this is a strategy of IBM so IBM can exploit Java and bankrupt Sun’s Software division.
As for this survey… I’ve seen huge growth in JSP/Servlets. However, I also see a decline in ASP websites. They are moving to ASP.Net. They are upgrading! nothing has been changing they are just upgrading.
Note none of them use directly .jsp in there urls.
At work, we use both struts, and webwork2(for newer apps). The view is normally rendered in velocity. Therefore our (*.do, *.action, and *.vm) sites are completely ignored by this study.
Framework Homepage
Action Servlet http://www.actionframework.org/
Barracuda http://barracuda.enhydra.org/
Bento http://www.bentodev.org/
Bishop http://bishop.sourceforge.net/
Cocoon http://cocoon.apache.org/
Echo http://www.nextapp.com/products/echo/
Expresso http://www.jcorporate.com/
Japple http://www.japple.org/
JPublish http://www.jpublish.org/
JStateMachine http://www.jstatemachine.org/
Maverick http://mav.sourceforge.net/
Melati http://www.melati.org/
Millstone http://millstone.org/
Niggle http://niggle.sourceforge.net/
Open Symphony http://www.opensymphony.com/
SOFIA (Previously known as JADE) http://www.salmonllc.com/sofia
Struts http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/
Tapestry http://tapestry.sourceforge.net/
TeaServlet http://teatrove.sourceforge.net/
Turbine http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/
Webwork http://www.opensymphony.com/webwork/
wingS http://wings.mercatis.de/
I definitely definitely it’s easier and more productive to use .net over java.
However, IntelliJ is still the best IDE for pure coding I’ve ever seen. MS needs to copy all the navigation, intention based UI ideas, and refactoring features in IntelliJ. Because of the suckiness inherent in Swing the GUI builder in IntelliJ sucks, but other than that it’s brilliant.
To the comment about .net GUIs “ONLY working on Windows.” My response would be “who cares?” 1) 95% of the machines on the planet run windows 2) Java UIs are slow and clunky compared to .net UIs, which is what end users care about 3) java installs are much more involved. I love exes! I still don’t understand why Sun doesn’t just give in and support an EXE. Do your build, get a Linux EXE, windows EXE, whatever. You always have to do a slightly differnt deployment for each platform anyway and the code behind it is still the same… Who cares if it’s not “pure”? Sun needs to be pragmatic. Users don’t care about “pure.” They care about getting shit done quickly and easily.
“jesus christ you vb kiddie. you do realize that “C# guis” are system.windows.forms widgets, which are native windows ONLY gui components.
let me stress that again, windows ONLY.”
No sh#t! You mean it can only work in 95% of
the desktops out there?
it;s easy to see why. jakarta struts vs .net is no contest for ease of development and deployment. .net saves me so much time and makes me a hero around the office. The extra cash required for VS.NET is well worth the productivity increase. TCO is lower as well due to less labor cost and less hassles, and less time to deploy a really nice web app.
you can have my VS.NET when u pry it from my cold dead fingers.
To the comment about .net GUIs “ONLY working on Windows.” My response would be “who cares?”
I care. How’s about that?
1) 95% of the machines on the planet run windows
Now there’s something i don’t care that much.
2) Java UIs are slow and clunky compared to .net UIs, which is what end users care about
Duh, Java UIs is slower becacause it runs everywhere, and that’s what i and many other people care? Hello??
3) java installs are much more involved. I love exes! I still don’t understand why Sun doesn’t just give in and support an EXE. Do your build, get a Linux EXE, windows EXE, whatever. You always have to do a slightly differnt deployment for each platform anyway and the code behind it is still the same… Who cares if it’s not “pure”? Sun needs to be pragmatic. Users don’t care about “pure.” They care about getting shit done quickly and easily.
Now you sound like a poor crying baby. You can use InstallAnywhere or anything like that to gerenarete your installs with a double click; your program will be on the menu and everything. So no need to cry if you can’t learn how to launch a jar file, alright?
Victor.
Phil is right on. Businesses don’t care about “pure” or some lame philosophy. They care about getting shit done quickly and easily. Until there is a VS.NET equivalent in linux, those developers will never even consider it.
Technically Cold Fusion is a J2EE based tech, all this crap about ASP.NET rapidly overtaking java/jsp is crap. J2EE is JSP , you can’t just look at file extensions!
In my line of work I am finding a lot of people moving to Java and then I have seen people like Fujitsu who are supposed to be Red Hats best friend, totally ignore every other development language apart from ASP.NET based applications! What does this tell you. SUN need to make it easier, I have developed ASP.NET applications and they are just so much easier than JSP based stuff, I can build an assembly in C# and use it directly in my ASP.NET page, although I think .NET is pathetic in terms of an API, nice and clean rip off of Java, but is crap, when you find yourself rewriting functions and classes that don’t work you start to question yourself!
SUN GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE AND BLOODY DO SOMETHING OTHERWISE IT WILL BE A MONO FUTURE
“Phil is right on. Businesses don’t care about “pure” or some lame philosophy. They care about getting shit done quickly and easily. Until there is a VS.NET equivalent in linux, those developers will never even consider it.”
Or to put more crudely. Ms is “numero uno” the rest of the world can f#@k off and die.
Here’s a small clue for you. There’s a whole world of computing that’s outside of Microsoft. From legacy machines to brand spanking new. From old technology to straight out of the lab, MS is but a small part. And the more machine’s you can get your code to run on. The greater your market can be, and the less “monoculture” problems will arise.
well, since they deleted my post, i’ll post it again.
C#’s guis are faster because they are windows only. to a lot of people this matters. If you told me you could write a single C# app and distribute it to 3 platforms with and end user interface that works on all of them I’d laugh at you, and for good reason. swing is slow, yes, but swing is the only dynamic crossplatform toolkit that you can *expect* to be on most operating systems out of the box.
that means no fooling with wxwindows, no worrying “is gtk installed?” and no worrying about each platform having a non-native look & feel. this doesn’t mean swing looks as good as a true native solution nor performs better than all those other cases, it just means it’s better at taking one app, putting it into a jar, sending it to someone and regardless of the platform the chances are they can run it.
when i do development on my mac and deploy on the windows machines at work, you better believe that crossplatform (only %5!) matters to me. because i do NOT code productively in windows.
Does is really matter what Sun does? Most of the action in Java server technologies is not controlled by Sun. IBM and all the open source frameworks, apache projects, and 3rd party IDE’s, provide a lot of alternatives. The “partial list of java/web frameworks” posted above are a good sample.
My choice is to not bother with the MS stuff because it’s limiting. If I’m to invest time and experience in a process, why lock it down to the MS roadmap?
And what does the 95% desktop numbers have to do with this thread? This is about the server. Apache server spanks MS IIS Server in web server numbers. PHP and Java are a natural fit with apache. Let’s check the desktop numbers again in a few years. The momentum and culture of open source is inevitable.
I love when people say “its easier to use VS.NET IDE over a java IDE”….People have not used all the current IDEs for java nor will they give them a chance….JBuilder X, JDeveloper 10g, IntelliJ, Eclipse (and soon to be out Project Rave/Sun One Studio 6)
Also, as a .NET developer, VS.NET 2003 has big problems when you create a complex application spanning multiple developers, with a large number of custom controls,using source control, etc. The IDE crashes left and right.
But anyhow this survey is big time bogus. Most people do not use the JSP/Servlet combo directly anymore…they use template engines like apache velocity or web frameworks like Tapestry or struts (which do not have JSP extensions or use a /Servlet repository)
If people base their lively-hood off of surveys such as these, they deserve what they get.
That’s probably the stupidest survey almost laughtable. For Java web applicationthere are Velocity, XML, HTML, etc pages that could be producted by Cocoon Maven etc 20 more frameworks… and those pages never use .jsp signature.
You really can’t count the number of java web application counting the number of applications that use /servlet or with pages which end with *jsp. If you just know the basic of j2ee programming it’s obvious.
I myself have deployed five j2ee application, and none of them uses /servlet or *jsp.
It’s really sad to see such stupid surveys, and to see that a lot of sites report them without any check about accuracy. I think a good news site should check the validity of the news is publishing…
First of all, for all those cavilling about this survey – How else should netcraft perform a more accurate survey? I’m sure they would be interested to improve their method, if someone can actually come up with something that would make an improvement. Choosing files that end in “.do” (as some have suggested) doesn’t guarantee they are Java. I’ve never used ASP.NET (or any MS dev tools), but I quit my job doing Java programming last year. J2EE sucks, and Websphere blows.
Despite the fact that IBM massively push Websphere and not Notes/Domino, there are still 20k sites in that survey, but most IT people have never even heard of it, or if they have, they think it is an email program. Think about it – a product that almost no-one has heard of, and that receives no marketing is being used by almost 50% as many sites as are using Java – and Java has had 10 years of publicity and marketing from Sun, IBM, Oracle, Borland, and open source advocates…
I worked for a company that had previously used Lotus Notes for their web development, but because of a re-structuring of management (and IBM’s abysmal strategic statements) the company decided we should move to Websphere/J2EE.
We wasted a couple of years doing J2EE development – throwing out core stuff like CMP, minimizing the use of EJBs, and adopting open-source add-ons like Struts to make up for the deficiencies in JSPs. No training was provided, no consultants employed. And yet massive amounts of money were spent on tool and server licensing – all the developers had to have machines that were about 400% more powerful than their previous machines – and still I hear that everything runs like molasses. For us and our applications to have been as productive with J2EE would have cost about 1000% more than if we had stayed with Notes and Domino (staff salaries, training, consultancy, hardware upgrades, tools and server licenses). They didn’t spend enough, and the project is a failure in my opinion.
15 years ago Notes was anticipating what the Internet could be (hyperlinks, client-server processing, separation of presentation from data, replication, fine-grained role-based security). There is no other internet development platfrom that can match Notes – web technologies and the internet are still trying to catch up with Notes, whilst Notes has just co-opted most of the internet technologies as they reach a level equivalent to what Notes could do natively. Notes was also cross-platform (kinda like a JVM, but long before Java), with clients and servers for Win32, OS/2, Mac, Unix, and apps written on one platform could just be copied to another and deployed. Notes v2 apps will still run unmodified in the current v6 clients and servers.
IBM bought Notes as their cross-platform integration tool, but along came Java and the marketing momentum of J2EE, and they had a strategic crossroads. They chose the wrong road.
I hate Microsoft as much as anyone (I used to be an OS/2 engineer). But having tried to work with Java for a couple of years, I gave up. I’m glad that Notes and Domino support Java – but they also support C, C++, VB and COM, .Net, Javascript and CSS. There is no other tool that I know of that offers so much. In v7 it is going to have DB2 as an optional datastore instead of the .nsf file.
IBM changed their pricing model last year. You can now get a server with unlimited web user access for about $2500(there’s a webcast on this page: http://www.lotus.com/products/product4.nsf/wdocs/dominohomepage, but registration is required). Finding out information about IBM products is notoriously difficult unless you work for a Fortune 100 company.
The great thing about buying Domino this way is that a site can not only be built rapidly and with great security, but it can grow and be maintained easily with clustering and replication. And one can start on low-price commodity hardware using Linux or Win32, and if one has need and the money, move the whole thing onto very powerful and reliable IBM hardware like the iSeries (running Linux or OS400).
There is an extensive user-support network, and one can buy support from IBM or their Business Partners. I have never been to IBM for support, as solutions to 99% of my problems have been found in the user-support groups.
I work for an IBM Business Partner, but I am not advertising any services (and not writing in any official capacity). My company has enough work to keep me busy for the next 2 years, so we have no need to look for any more. I’m not taking a position on J2EE vs ASP.NET. There are alternatives 🙂
Is that survey ever mentioning php?, so why bother with php thinggy. I admit that php still the number 1 of the popular web scripting language for now, but in the future who knows what gonna happen. And why those open source fan out there still deniable when something shows that microsoft technology is even better from others. Don’t u still can’t face the fact that .NET are becoming more popular day by day, i don’t get it.
MVC Framework such as struts does not have any .jsp or /servlet URLs since years !!!
And most of J2EE server use MVC Framework (my guess is more than 75%) !!!
So counting this way is just nonsense.
IMHO, seeing the project developped here in europe the current market is more 10/20% for .net and 80/90% for J2EE.
.net is more on small project (less that a thousand person/day), and J2EE is more on middle and big projects.
If you look at “big projects”only, they are 99% J2EE, only few “politicaly binded” project are .net enabled (most of the time MS put lots of money & presure into it by cuting license cost of office & windows at the same time, i seen such a practice at a customer of mine already).
Despite MS wasting billions on .net for the “hype” to start again, hype is over. Now people are used to .net, they know it is roughtly equivalent to Java ! So they don’t care that much of .net, … hard times for MS.
How much billions will they still waste before retiring .net ? is the only interresting question 😉