Core AmigaOS 4.0 developer Hans-Jörg Frieden has written a status report with regard to the current state of AmigaOS. Various advances have been made since the Developer Pre-release version of AOS4 was completed. Meanwhile AmigaWorld.net has launched a new File Depot portal dedicated to providing and hosting Amiga OS4 files and related resources.
What kind of prices will the new Amiga systems be available at?
This is not a sarcastic question or anything. I was an Amiga users for years, and I loved it back then… but computing and OSs have come a very long way since then, at least in terms of how compelte they are. Amigas were far superior to everything else in terms of hardware as well. But now, I can’t see a single motivating factor for the continued development of this project besides good old Amiga fanatism.
Are there any specific advantages to this platform? Something that is actually a real advantage or point of interest?
You mean besides the fact that this OS is STILL better than any currently shipping version of Windows? Yes, Windows has more features, but the usability of AmigaOS is still much higher. If it weren’t for the missing features, which OS4 is doing well to try to address, Windows would have no advantage at all.
I prefer AmigaOS 3.1 on an old 68040 to Windows XP. The user interface is actually faster on the Amiga than XP is on my Opteron workstation. Yes, the Opteron runs rings around the 040 on any CPU task, like rendering, but if you’re typing up reports, the Amiga is superior since you spend most of your time waiting on the user to hit the next key. It is why so many Amiga users still use their Amigas.
You can find a dealer list on AmigaWorld.net’s frontpage, various dealers are selling ATX form factor G3/G4 powered AmigaOne boards. You will get the developer pre-release version of AmigaOS (and Linux) and the final version of AmigaOS4 when finished.
These boards are targeted mainly at developers and power user Amigans and thus aren’t being produced in that high volumes and so aren’t cheap.
The Mini-ITX form factor MicroA1 should be produced in much higher quantities, which would probably help bringing down the price.
@ Nord
> but now, I can’t see a single motivating factor for the
> continued development of this project besides good old
> Amiga fanatism.
Please don’t suggest that the left Amigans are all fanatics as that’s not very nice. Most of us also use mainstream systems, but we still like many things better about the old Amiga platform. For many people it is currently mainly a hobby they love to support. I believe if it is OK to love old cars, collect coins, etc, it should be OK to have the Amiga as a hobby!
Some opinions:
http://www.basden.u-net.com/amiga/amiga.diffnt.html
> Are there any specific advantages to this platform?
> Something that is actually a real advantage or point of
> interest?
There are so many different things people like about the platform, I will just list a few keyterms many people associate with AmigaOS: Efficient, small footprint, flexible, customizable, speedy pre-emptive multitasking multimedia OS. 🙂
I agree that was exactly my thought, “What is their business plan?”. I mean the desktop market has now three OS’s: OSX, Linux and Windows.
I had an Amiga 1200 with Amiga OS 3.0 and I agree that had a small footprint, some nice features and with some small modifications could do whats needed now. However I would first try and find a niche market such as embedded multimedia devices. And then expand bit by bit. And if I was doing the new AmigaOS I would add POSIX support so that you can port the GNU toolset with ease. And use the OS in semiprofessional enverioments.
However if you would present this full list to me: Efficient, small footprint, flexible, customizable, speedy pre-emptive multitasking multimedia OS. BeOS would be the first to mind. As I think it was a lot better then AmigaOS. However AmigaOS is also older. But I like neithers GUI.
I also don’t understand the deal with Amiga and its obsession with the powerpc cpu. It much more expensive then a x86 cpu. Just use a viachipset for the lowend. You will not notice any great differences between it and the G3 (which has no altivec). And no the powerpc is not technically better, on paper it maybe is, but in practice it isn’t. If you worry about power consumption then use a PIII/Duron which are of the same class as the G4.
@ smurf975
> however I would first try and find a niche market such as
> embedded multimedia devices.
First you would need a development platform, so I think that is the first you should be targeting. Without software any new platform is doomed, this was also one of the reasons why BeOS did not really catch on enough for it to survive. The existing Amiga community can help alot with regard to this (First niche).
The second niche would be embedded multimedia and similar devices as has been stated for many times. The plan IS to gradually expand into new niche markets. 🙂
> BeOS would be the first to mind. As I think it was a lot
> better then AmigaOS.
If you compare your AmigaOS 3.0 from 1992 with the last versions of BeOS, I would certainly agree (the BeBox made it’s first public appearance inb 1995! The popular BeOS release 4.5 was not released until 1999!), and the same would IMO even be true for even MacOS9. 😉
AmigaOS4.0 will have more than “some small modifications” compared to AmigaOS3.0!
> I also don’t understand the deal with Amiga and its
> obsession with the powerpc cpu.
The Amiga isn’t obsessed by the PPC processor. It just happens the PPC has more in common with 68k processors and thus already many steps towards moving to PPC have been made in the past. AmigaOS4 is also in beta for classic systems equipped with old PPC expansion boards.
Also the PPC is excellently suitable for that “embedded multimedia” niche you were talking about. (For example the long battery life due to energy efficiency)
smurf975 wrote:
“I mean the desktop market has now three OS’s: OSX, Linux and Windows.”
Thats true but one of them has 90%+ of the desktop market.
You would think that someone who is interested in the future of computing would welcome another competing platform.
“I also don’t understand the deal with Amiga and its obsession with the powerpc cpu. It much more expensive then a x86 cpu.”
The biggest problem here, is that all current amiga software exist in either 68k or ppc, so if you ported it to x86, you would not be able to use any existing software! You would have a OS that you cannot run anything on… The ppc cpu is also faster than x86 cpu per mhz and also consume way less power and runs very cold compared to x86 cpus..
There is actually someone who do what you ask.. http://www.aros.org <—- is virtually a port of amigaos that runs on any x86 pcs.. It has sadly virtually no appz/games avaliable, so you cannot do much with it..
@L.F.
“You mean besides the fact that this OS is STILL better than any currently shipping version of Windows?”
What fact is that? This OS isn’t even released in a final version…
How can it POSSIBLY be better than Windows?
You may like Amigas better than PC’s, but that’s your opinion. That has NOTHING to do with facts.
It’s fine that you like AmigaOS. No need to make up “Facts” that don’t exist.
The biggest problem here, is that all current amiga software exist in either 68k or ppc, so if you ported it to x86, you would not be able to use any existing software! You would have a OS that you cannot run anything on…
I reconize this problem and there is not much that you can do about it except running an embedded emulator such as UAE. But they (AmigaOS 4 guys) must be carefull and should use from now on portable libraries to which a programmer will link. This will avoid any future problems.
And if the applications and the OS are portable as many GNU/Linux applications are, you can basically choose any CPU for a device. Lets say that Amiga wants to build something from this list: DVD players/recorders, set-top boxes, smart displays, portable entertainment devices, DTVs, residential data/media gateways and networked media adapters.
Well you could stick to the powerpc or build something around the: Blackfin eMedia Platform http://www.analog.com/processors/platforms/blackfin_eMedia/ which cost about $7 to $25 per 10k units.
Point being that Amiga shouldn’t be to PowerPC orientated as there are many embedded processors that are very well priced. But yes for a development platform it can be great.
The ppc cpu is also faster than x86 cpu per mhz and also consume way less power and runs very cold compared to x86 cpus..
I’m not saying that the powerpc is a bad choice but with the x86 you can choose from many more vendors. Also AMD makes low power x86 compatible cpu for embedded devices, Intel also has some but I don’t know if they are x86 compatible and VIA has some low power x86 cpu’s.
It’s just when I had my A1200 and bought a Blizzard upgrade board with a M68030@50Mhz and 32MB RAM it was very expensive compared to what the PC world offered in upgrades. I still have it BTW (Anyone want to buy it?)
Thats true but one of them has 90%+ of the desktop market.
You would think that someone who is interested in the future of computing would welcome another competing platform.
I do welcome it however it must be really good before I’ll dumb Windows and Linux for it. You can say that AmigaOS4 is modern but what true advantages does it hold over the other OS’s?
smurf975 wrote:
You can say that AmigaOS4 is modern but what true advantages does it hold over the other OS’s?
If it turns out to be a modern conterpart to AmigaOS 3.9 then some advantages would be: Fast! even on old hardware, Small & efficient, Very easy to use, Lots of software already written for it (some old but still usefull), spyware/adware free!, little to no viruses, fast Mac emulation (through Mac on Linux), Did I mention that the hardware also comes with Linux.
AmigaOS 4 should almost be considered a new platform with ties to an old platform. If it were a “brand new” OS with these features then you guys would be praising it instead of nit picking at it.
It predict that AmigaOS 4.0 will answer the question “Who needs a lightweight OS?” by being good at the same thing it’s always been good at: video editing and music production.
What fact is that? This OS isn’t even released in a final version…
I said OS3.1. That’s been released in it’s final version since 91 or 92. I wasn’t comparing OS4 to Windows, I was comparing the old 3.1 to Windows. I’ll see how OS4 does when it’s finally out officially.
How can it POSSIBLY be better than Windows?
Just use it for a while and you’ll find out.
If AmigaOS came on x86 Hardware you’d only be dual booting back to windows. You’ll be using it now and then as a quaint alternative, just as a lot of people do with Linux. I think this is one of the things that keeps Linux retention so low. You have some trouble with Linux somewhere and you go “F’it I’m going back to windows”. Only making the investment in the PPC hardware will encourage you to plow through the teething problems and get the most out of the system. There’s no windows on this PPC platform…. AND THAT’S A GOOD THING!!!!
Also I, and many other Amiga enthusiasts find the thought of an x86 based Amiga abhorrent. I believe the Amiga was a computer, rather than just an operating system. The current specs aren’t great, granted, but I can only think this is step one.
What I’d love to see, is Amiga(or someone) license the hardware of an established console manufacturer and make the SUPER AMIGA that we all want, that can play all the console games as well as boot into OS4. Put it in an A500 style case and it’d be a winner. All consoles are going to be PPC based for the foreseeable future and OS4 is now primed for a port as it has a Hardware Abstraction Layer. It would also only need to support one graphics device instead of everything ever done, as drivers are also going to be an issue as they are with Linux.
If AmigaOS came on x86 Hardware you’d only be dual booting back to windows. You’ll be using it now and then as a quaint alternative, just as a lot of people do with Linux. I think this is one of the things that keeps Linux retention so low. You have some trouble with Linux somewhere and you go “F’it I’m going back to windows”. Only making the investment in the PPC hardware will encourage you to plow through the teething problems and get the most out of the system. There’s no windows on this PPC platform…. AND THAT’S A GOOD THING!!!!
“If AmigaOS came on x86 Hardware you’d only be dual booting back to windows.”
Not in my case. The fastest Amiga I have is an x86 Amithlon machine, and it doesn’t have Windows on it, so there is no dual booting.
Win2k runs on a separate machine, and I find in practice that this often goes unused for days. The Amigas are simply less hassle to use.
I don’t believe it makes any difference to the user what CPU is being used. It might turn out in a year or two that IBM can make better CPUs than Intel or AMD – or it might not.
It can be annoying that current graphics cards don’t support some features required by the Amiga OS, but OTOH they have higher resolution and more colours than the old Amiga technology. Software emulation in the OS ought to be possible.
As for “why bother” – look at the thread on bloat in Linux which is running today. A good aim for the future would be to make Amiga OS better than BeOS, while keeping that Gig of RAM you have now clear for the data you are working on.
The OS should not be using up more than a quarter of the available RAM on a system.
Why keep AmigaOS alive? Well, think of this:
Look at all the other OS’es, Windows, Linux and various hobby OS’es we learn about through OSNews.
AmigaOS has features which none of these have implemented properly yet. I think it would be a terrible waste just to drop it and forget it. It works both as a piece of history in what could be done on a 7 MHz 68000 with 512 kB RAM almost 20 years ago and serves as a primer for what still is to come, and as an inspirational source for how to solve various common problems, that you and I struggle with on a daily basis in other OS’es. Very few other OS’es can do that.
If you want a simple demonstration of AmigaDOS1.3 on a 7 MHz Amiga 2000 with 3 MB RAM and a 40 MB harddisk, take a look at this video from June 27th 1989:
http://www.archive.org/movies/details-db.php?collection=computerchr…
The demonstrations starts at 11 minutes, 50 seconds into the video.
Now imagine how fast it would be, and how productive you would be, if you had such an OS, upgraded with modern features, modern applications on a 1 GHz G4 PPC machine with just 256 MB RAM.
@L.F.
I’ve been using Amigas since the A1000 days.
I’m sorry to tell you that while I *LOVE* the early versions of the Amiga Computer, and AmigaOS for their integration, design and speed…
In NO WAY are they better than Windows. Sorry.
I have more modern applications, on more modern hardware, with MUCH more support for third party hardware, the Internet and other things than AmigaOS has EVER had.
It’s OK for you like and even *LOVE* AmigaOS.
Windows doesn’t have to be bad for you to do that.
I still *LOVE* my TRS-80 Model I. I *LOVE* MultiDOS. It doesn’t have to be better than Windows for me to have affection and love for it.
Let’s get over the “My OS is better than Windows!” crap, and just enjoy each OS for what it has to offer.
[QUOTE]This is not a sarcastic question or anything. I was an Amiga users for years, and I loved it back then… but computing and OSs have come a very long way since then, at least in terms of how compelte they are. Amigas were far superior to everything else in terms of hardware as well. But now, I can’t see a single motivating factor for the continued development of this project besides good old Amiga fanatism.
Are there any specific advantages to this platform? Something that is actually a real advantage or point of interest?[END QUOTE]
Windows is kinda bloat. It’s easy to use, but there’s a whole world of viri and trojan content just waiting to infest your system. I use it as my primary OS, but that’s going to change. And when that time comes, I don’t want linux to be my primary OS, because it’s a little too geeky. Linux made a wrong turn a LONG time ago, and I for one is not going that way. Compability problems is the Keyword I guess. And the fact that it’s unecessary complicated. All diffrent versions of all of those components wich make a linux system, dependency hell and all of that. I dont want that. Complicated is not necessarily better you know. BeOS was sort of groundbreaking back in the days, but without the complexity of linux ways. I consider Linux to be an experimental OS. Great if you want to fiddle something… a little like lego (i know it’s a VERY advanced form of lego but anyways). I too do it sometimes you know.
AmigaOS has always been no1 for me. Fast, easy to use AND put together in a smart way. And FUN
To bad it’s nearly dead. OS4 and MorphOS might be my chance to see that again, and hopefully if people show interest in something WICH OF COURSE cant be as up to date as Windows/Linux/OSX because the lack of a large userbase the past 5-10 years, people will make this great, but for now very basic system OS, evolve. I hope so, because it’s fresh and clean. From the ground up.
To sum it up. I want AmigaOS/MorphOS not because it’s better, but because it really has the potential to be better than Linux/Windows.
What do you think an OS is for? Windows doesnt make itself better than AmigaOS, it is the software that makes Windows platform better than other platform. I believe you should first get an idea on what an OS does and should do. Their job is to use/configure hardware efficiently(ex multitasking). Their job is to provide good APIs so programmers can write software for them easily. MS Office, Winamp doesnt make Windows better than Linux, or AmigaOS, it is just the windows platform that is better.
If we compare Windows to other OSes such as AmigaOs, Linux, BEOS, windows is definitly far behind any of them. I’m not saying AmigaOS is perfect but at least it does what it has to do the best.
Another thing you talk about is being modern. So you got p4 3.4 gig cpu, good for you. I believe that 3.4 gig cpu speed makes you think that it is modern and so it beats everything out there, and only the best programs can be written on that system. Practically it doesnt much matter if you are using a full featured office system on p4 and on 68060/ppc amiga. You wont see any difference. Buy hey it is almost 10 years old right. So no way you use it even….
Amiga has good points and bad points as everyting else. So stop talking about some platform that you have no idea of, and yeah learn what an OS is.
Another thing that makes Amiga is the hardware architecture. There are some techicall differences between 680×0/PPC CPUs and x86 CPUs. Thats why Amiga went with the Motorola ones. If they would use x86 ones maybe Amiga would not be this good.
I have more modern applications, on more modern hardware, with MUCH more support for third party hardware, the Internet and other things than AmigaOS has EVER had.
And none of that has ANYTHING to do with the OS. I didn’t say AmigaOS had more apps or better driver support, I said AmigaOS is better than Windows. OS vs. OS, AmigaOS outshines Windows in every way. It’s smaller (given the same feature base), it’s faster, it multitasks better, it’s more intuitive, etc..
Now imagine if such an OS HAD the apps and the drivers…
I was an Amiga user in the past (still own some, but don’t use them) and still follow what is happening in the Amiga world. My work requires most of my time to be spent on Windows, Linux, and Solaris. I will say that during all my computer history, I enjoyed using an Amiga the most. So what would an Amiga today have to its benefit? I would have to say responsiveness and small size. I personally would only buy one of those ITX motherboards, because you could make a compact system, like a small cube. It would be quiet, small, and use little power. It would boot up in seconds (not minutes), and not require a shutdown, just power it off.
Amiga OS 4.0 on a PPC-ITX system would allow for a really fast compact system, and because of Amiga’s past history, this OS actually has a lot software already around (Unlike BeOS, QNX, SkyOS, etc etc). Why PPC? Because PPC will run AmigaOS more efficient then X86 (context switching).
So I can only see Amiga OS become successful as a compact, low power computer (or used in the embedded area), but couldn’t match up against MAC OSX on a high-end system.
All I could say to people is wait until Amiga OS 4.0 is released along with an ITX motherboard, and see one hell of a responsive and fast mini computer system.
That is why I would buy an Amiga system myself. And when you compare cost, better to compare against Macs, since they both run on PPC. But I have found that Amiga/Mac try to increase speed updates through optimization of software, whereas Windows gets faster only with hardware updating, thus over a longer period, the cost of hardware upgrades will equal out with software optimization. Look at the last few MAC OSX updates to see how they try to optimize the software for speed.
As others said, it’s fast, efficient and compact but most importantly to me, sensible. There’s no secret as to ‘what’s going on behind the scenes’ as with Windows, you never have to reinstall, you can move apps around to different locations without screwing things up etc etc. It’s just how an OS should be IMO.
“As others said, it’s fast, efficient and compact but most importantly to me, sensible.”
Yup. You can back up your system partition to a CD just by copying all the files – no need for special backup or drive image software.
It’s not perfect, there are some major gaps, but “sensible” is right. And for version 4 a big effort is being made to make the OS friendly to developers (which is sensible).