Home > Mac OS X > Liquid cooled Power Macs running Mac OS X 10.3.5Liquid cooled Power Macs running Mac OS X 10.3.5 Submitted by razor 2004-07-09 Mac OS X 40 CommentsPreproduction models of Apple’s recently announced 2.5GHz liquid cooled Power Mac G5 computers are running a new version of the Mac OS X operating system, according to sources. UPDATE: More info about the 10.3.5 version.About The Author Eugenia LoliEx-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 40 Comments 2004-07-09 7:37 am I didn’t think the big boys would be shipping liquid-cooled boxes in mass so soon. All this freakish computing power is gettin kinda scary. 2004-07-09 11:21 am Actually the new 2.5GHz chips use less power than the 2.0GHz ones.Liquid cooling is used because the heat is concentrated over a smaller area. 2004-07-09 11:37 am The G5 uses a 700 watt PSU. 2004-07-09 11:45 am yada yada yada and blah blah blah. I’m just waitng for the day the PC industry implodes from the pressure of it’s own hype.Faster, bigger, smaller, more powerful! I stopped caring 3 years ago when I realized all I want a PC to be is display my email, display the web, run my chat program, play my music and burn my cd’s.A 500 Mhz PC will do that just fine, anything else is just sheer excess for me.I don’t need a PC that can run the latest ultra-violent game so I can feed my adrenalin addiction. I’ve overcome that problem long ago. 2004-07-09 11:55 am “we are killing our world because intel/ibm/etc cannot make low power chips. fsckin tragic.”Killing our world? Cry me a river, dude!Read and learn:http://environmentalism.aynrand.org/ 2004-07-09 12:50 pm Is this a late april fools joke?“As a doctrine — an “ism” — [environmentalism] is fundamentally an attack on the ideals of Western civilization.”Ah, so isms are bad, like capitalism? And humanism is a scourge on mankind. Darwinism is a set back to scientific progress. Heroism is bad for everyone. And you’d better hope the jews, hindus and buddhists never hear about all this. Not they can matter much to a country whose main foreign policy for most of its existence was isolationism… 2004-07-09 1:13 pm Thank you Phil. Well said. 2004-07-09 1:23 pm FROM THE TEXT (http://environmentalism.aynrand.org/):Fundamentally opposed to reason and science, environmentalism uses false scientific claims to frighten the unwary.As a doctrine — an “ism” — it is fundamentally an attack on the ideals of Western civilization. Opposed to science, technology, and economic development, environmentalism holds that the non-human has value but the human does not.This is simply not true, but rather a blanket statement to make all environmentalists seem the same. Sure, there are the extremists, but those are the minority. The reason why they may seem larger than they are is because they are the most extreme and outspoken in the group. You can see this in almost any field.As for scare tactics, this site utilizes them very well. Here are some of my favorite article titles they have on the site: America’s Terrorists, Conservation vs. the American Dream, Earth Day Celebrates hatred of Man, Homegrown Terrorism, On Earth Day, and Remember: If Environmentalists Succeed, They Will Make Human Life ImpossibleHere is a definition of environmentalism:DEFINITIONS (The American Heritage® Dictionary)1. Advocacy for or work toward protecting the natural environment from destruction or pollution.My girlfriend specialized in Environmental Studies in college, and does NOT match the quoted text from that obvious one-sided website. In college, these specialists are trained to use computers (technology) and science to find the best way to utilize technology with the least negative environmental impact. Claiming they are “opposed to science, ” and “technology” is pure ignorance, they use these daily.We can thank environmentalists for our ability to drink our tap water without scare. Go drink the water in a 3rd world country. How about that fresh Mexico City air? If you think we should use all the energy we can in our households, would you sign a petition for a coal power plant close to you? See HEALTH CONCERNS in this article – http://www.climateark.org/articles/2000/4th/coalpols.htmAs for the article, my 2GHz G5 PowerMac came with 10.2.7, also an unreleased OS at the time it was announced. I wonder what 10.3.5 has to offer, considering the articles claims it is “the most significant update to Mac OS X 10.3 Panther, since its release last year” 2004-07-09 1:24 pm what is the point to be vertically integrated and not decide of your own CPU. With so much of their market and upcomming market as laptop, why apple don’t buy a small cpu maker and make them do asynchronous CPU and associated chip?Hardware in computer is sssooooo much like the car industry. I have lot of friend that speak me so much of new car model etc.. for me it’s the same car since the 70’s (some cadilac model of that time even have more electronic than any computerised version of now). It’s the same with PC “hey come this afternoon to see my new brazillion Mhz PC it rock!”. No thanx i have see enough bad italian horror movie for a life time.Now start “the sound of silence.mp3” on your PC and when it say silence, karaoke over it: 500 (in french: sin san (cinq cent)). in reference to an amiga 500. 2004-07-09 1:44 pm The people writing on that site seem as extreme as the worst PETA animal rights fanatic. It just goes to show that there are total loonies on both sides of the environmentalism debate.Global warming may be exaggerated by some environmentalists and IMO testing on animals is a good thing if it helps humans. But these people seem to be happy for the seas to be polluted, endangered animals made extinct, the rainforest destroyed, etc. if it aids ‘human progress’. I wonder how they’d like a toxic waste dump near their home? 2004-07-09 1:49 pm Ayn Rand was an extremist of the highest order… as an exercise, read “The Fountainhead” or “Atlas Shrugged”. I’ve never seen greed and selfishness displayed so nakedly before. 2004-07-09 2:03 pm The G5 uses a 700 watt PSU.Yeah but a PSU doesn’t always draw full wattage. 2004-07-09 2:06 pm “The company’s lower-end 1.8 and 2.0 GHz Power Mac G5 continue to be supported by existing versions of Mac OS X, while the 2.5 GHz model currently requires a Mac OS build train from the unreleased Mac OS X 10.3.5 operating system.”is this merely apple’s recommendation, or do you have to upgrade your OS just to have a faster chip? and people accuse MS of some crazy tactics? this is one of the most ridiculous things i’ve ever heard, i’ve never had to upgrade my OS just to get a faster clock speed (isn’t it supposed to be the other way around?). 2004-07-09 2:16 pm Actually if you think about it, the next version of OS X.3, which is a POINT release I might add, a free download, just includes drivers for the new cooling system. That new model uses a completely different (water-cooled if you read the article) system; the prior one was pretty complex with software controlled fans so it only seems natural this one would need a driver too.Don’t assume it’s a crazy tactic until you at least learn what’s going on. 2004-07-09 2:27 pm Grusic wrote:Faster, bigger, smaller, more powerful! I stopped caring 3 years ago when I realized all I want a PC to be is display my email, display the web, run my chat program, play my music and burn my cd’s. With all due respect then, what are you doing on a site like this? 2004-07-09 2:33 pm aha gotcha. imo, that should be stated a little more clearly in the article (which by me quoting me meant i did indeed read it). question: why does the cooling system need to be so complex? does the chip simply run that hot? why isn’t the cooling system hardware driven? 2004-07-09 2:52 pm I remember, not long ago, there were NO FANS in there (inside… G3s I guess?)! And now they use liquid cooling. And then it’s going to be a highly sophisticated cryogenic cooling. And then we’re going to be slaves of the machine. 2004-07-09 2:55 pm Funny that people have been harping on this G5 Powerbook thing and now with these liquid cooling devices in the towers, I wonder how they will be able to stick a g5 in a powerbook.I guess if they underclock it they might be able to do it but they would still get very hot and I wouldn’t want it on my lap. My ibook gets plenty hot and it’s just a 1ghz g4. 2004-07-09 3:13 pm well you see, it doesn’t actually run that hot (compared to a p4 prescott, its down right frigid)its just that customers in audio industry complain about the fan noise, and so apple is trying to make the machine as quiet as possiblewhich means that you have to have a bunch of really quiet low powered fans versus a one really powerful, noisy fanand as the clock speed gets higher, you will have to find new methods of cooling w/o raising the noise level 2004-07-09 3:39 pm Yeah, the eMac sounds like a hovercraft and it only runs a g4 but it just has a huge fan in it. 2004-07-09 4:11 pm I’m a SuSE Linux user on an x86 platform (P4-HT 3.2 GHz) but can see the logic in having a system water cooled. Not only does it typically keep your chips cooler than the heatsink/fan combo method but it is quite compared to fans. Now my only concern with water cooling is with condensation which could affect parts. An office environment has a consistent temperature due to climate control systems but homes typically fluctuate temperatures.What I’m confused about is some Apple users believing the widgets and some other tools in the up coming OSX Tiger is something new that Apple developed. Apple’s so called Dashboard, Automator, Voice Over, Mac Sync among other features have been available in Linux for some time just under differant names. So for once it looks like Apple is copying from the Linux community which isn’t all that bad for Apple users. These are great tools and it’s nice to see the Apple community also get use of them. Just don’t mistake these tools in OSX Tiger as meaning Apple actually did any real R & D to produce them As for the article I’m not really impressed by it or that Apple chose to release so called new models so soon. They promised they could produce a 3 GHz G5 processor with IBM and have yet to deliver on that promise. My buddy that is a Mac fanatic was not so impressed about the new water cooled hardware but more concerned why there is no 3 GHz G5 processor or a G5 17″ laptop. 2004-07-09 4:27 pm LOL!“same crew who snark and sneer that Macs (too expensive) are inferior because they aren’t as “fast” as Intel/AMD chips saying that the 2.5ghz G5 is too fast and why do we need all this speed? ”I was thinking the same thing! 2004-07-09 4:32 pm “What I’m confused about is some Apple users believing the widgets and some other tools in the up coming OSX Tiger is something new that Apple developed… ”You must just read newbie mac enthusiasts then, because there has been a hell of a lot of reasoned discussion all over about the roots of the tiger preview. 2004-07-09 4:37 pm Anyone have more detail on the liquid cooling system? is it going to be closed or will we have to top it off with special Apple Juice every once in a while. Is the 2.5 just and over-clocked 2.0? 2004-07-09 5:40 pm What I’m confused about is some Apple users believing the widgets and some other tools in the up coming OSX Tiger is something new that Apple developed. Apple’s so called Dashboard, Automator, Voice Over, Mac Sync among other features have been available in Linux for some time just under differant names. Actually Dashboard is *copied* from Apple itself, if you read the various sites you’d find this idea traced back all the way to the Apple GS or some such thing. I think Konfabulator was the first modern implementation of this idea, then various Linux programs popped up copying konfabulator. There is no automator type system for Linux, under any name. Spoken interface ideas have been avaliable on Linux, but I’ve never actually seen it work. I’ve no doubt it does, but I suppose it takes a lot of effort to setup. Of course spoken interfaces have been around before Linux too, I remember such things for windows 3.1. Sure, the older systems sucked, but then the current linux implementations are probably not as complete as Apple’s either.Mac sync? Sure, there are sync tools on Linux for various devices, but all are separate systems. By the way, mac’s can already sync to various devices as linux, Mac sync is simply a fancy unified sync interface. This is not some super magical inovation, but it is none the less very nice to have, and I don’t think Linux’s integration is really comparable.Please, keep the blind and false Linux advocacy to yourself next time. 2004-07-09 5:50 pm first Grusic, you should be complaining about Dell and all their garbage if you hate advertising and hype from sales….second, THERE IS A MHZ MYTH!!!to the dark knight, AFAIK all the apple stuff it the first system to INTEGRATE these tools, and I am not aware of any geeks in the know that are apple heads who think that these are novel and original ideas. they all just know that apple is the first to market with a fully integrated system of them. there is something to be said about integration you know. 2004-07-09 5:51 pm It’s not that the system runs all that hot. In fact, the G5s run a lot cooler and use less power than comparable Pentium4s and Opterons. The reason they use the liquid cooling is to keep down heat to where the fans aren’t used as much. If you’ve ever sat next to a dual G5, they’re utterly silent. If you walk next to a Pentium4 or Opteron, they’ve probably got seven fans blasting away enough to deafen you. 2004-07-09 5:55 pm it is a closed system of non conductive liquid that will not cause condensation of the materials because the system is not designed to lower the temp to below room temperature which is the dew point in homes with climate control.and no, the 2.5 GHz G5 is not a over clocked 2.0 GHz, it is an actual IBM product (the 2.5 GHz chip) the liquid cooling is meant for the sound studios who demand silence from their machines. 2004-07-09 6:52 pm There are several companies that offer prebuilt liquid cooled PC’s. It’s been happening for awhile actually.>>>Did not know this. When I ditched the x86 platform back in 2001, Maximum PC had run yet another article about how to watercool your processor and there was usually a few letters every other month about “how I made my own water cooled system”. Many of the case modded systems were also home built water cooled systems.So which manufacturers and can you point the way with a link? I’d like to check this out.(Oh, and I don’t mean a liquid cooling kit you can install yourself, I mean a tower you unbox, plug in, and turn on and it’s factory liquid cooled without the end user ever cracking the case.) 2004-07-09 6:57 pm Anyone have more detail on the liquid cooling system? is it going to be closed or will we have to top it off>>Uh, in a liquid cooling system of any kind pretty much the last thing you want is fluid loss.Think of the radiator on your car. You really don’t want low coolant there. And the only reason your coolant level ever drops is that coolant is leaking somewhere which, depending on the rate of loss can be a VERY bad thing. 2004-07-09 7:08 pm Did ever use google?liquid cooled pc intel/amdhttp://www.thunderboxpc.com/watercooled.htmThey make liquid cooled cases for quite some time now (~2001 or earlier)http://www.koolance.com/press/reviews_older.htmlyou can find more.By the way:Dashboard for Windows (1991-1993) One of three principal designers and developers of award-winning HP Dashboard 1.0 for MS Windows. 2004-07-09 7:45 pm Companies have been selling liquid-cooled x86 boxes for a while, but pretty much all of those companies are the small “boutiques” which charge tons of money for their hardware. Usually the overclocking elite and “quiet” PC enthusiasts with deep enough pockets would spring for these water-cooled or phase change systems. The good thing is that usually they are quality builders with extreme attention to detail and with insanely lengthy warranties (prime example: VoodooPC). I think they actually offer a lifetime warranty on their parts, overclocking included.Now this is the first that I’ve read of one of the big boys actually going the liquid route. Their cooling solution better be insanely air-, er, water-tight and fool-proof if they plan on mass-distributing these bad boys. 2004-07-09 8:09 pm Glenn: If you walk next to a Pentium4 or Opteron, they’ve probably got seven fans blasting away enough to deafen you.I’m not sure about the Opteron, but my Pentium 4 is pretty quiet and my father’s doesn’t make any noise that I can hear. I didn’t put any effort into making them quiet at all, but I’ve heard of a whole ton of methods to make them run even quieter.Of course, as someone else mentioned, the whole integration thing is nice. 2004-07-09 8:15 pm Sony beat Apple to the punch. Their new VAIO R series is liquid cooled and appearing at Circuit City. 2004-07-09 8:37 pm Did ever use google?>>:p Google is my co-pilot.Yes, and found a plethora of how tos and kits and even those that you posted. I wanted to know which specific manufacturers (if any) grusic had in mind. 2004-07-09 9:46 pm “THERE IS A MHZ MYTH!!!”If the HZ myth is really myth, than why is Apple also using HZ to demonstrate the speed of its processors? Why has there been no better way developed to express processor speed? 2004-07-09 11:40 pm Whoa! No kidding? I didn’t know that. So I guess the liquid chill is in full swing now. I guess I’ll have to check out the Sony website and check it out. 2004-07-10 7:08 am The G5 uses a 700 watt PSU.Then it is stupidly overspecced (or there’s something about the PPC970 Apple and IBM aren’t telling us). My fileserver at home has a 2.8Ghz P4, nine 7200rpm hard disks, a DVDRW and a DDS4 tape drive and it runs quite happily on a *400* watt PSU.For the tiny amount of stuff you can get into a G5, anything more than 400W is just sheer wankery (and even 400W is well on the side of “more than enough”). Does that 700W PSU have some neon lights and blue LEDs in it as well ? 2004-07-10 2:23 pm here, educate yourself Allen Ethanhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MHz 2004-07-10 2:25 pm well, lets think about this.a computer that was built with ADC, firewire, and USB2 in mind would, in my opinion need a lot of power available to it so that it can drive all those peripherals that can be connected to it and require power, especially the monitor through an ADC connection.