Home > General Unix > HP’s Hall responds to Schwartz’s claimsHP’s Hall responds to Schwartz’s claims Eugenia Loli 2004-10-19 General Unix 16 CommentsPeter Hall from HP has responded to Sun’s Jonathan Schwartz. Apparently HP is still committed to the HP-UX operating system. About The Author Eugenia LoliEx-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 16 Comments 2004-10-19 4:19 pm How can itanic, with it’s current marketshare and volumepossibly be labelled as ‘industry standard’?. Whichparticular industry are we talking about because itcertainly isn’t the server industry. He mentions ‘industrystandard’ 9 times (I think). Are they hoping if they sayit often enough people will believe it?.Do you think HP are including IBM in the ‘eight out of nine of the current RISC vendors committing to provide solutions based on Itanium” comment? If so, they omitted half-arsed. 2004-10-19 4:53 pm HP just cancelled thier entire Itanium workstation line in favor of x86-64. Cancelling a volume product like workstations is a sure way of killing a chip.While Hall says Sun isn’t on the itanium band wagon, HP cancels products based on itanium, Nice!!!! Last I checked not many major vendors were half way serious about Itanium.Dell has exactly two Itanium based products. IBM has exactly 2 products. Not an entire line as Hall claims. 2004-10-19 4:56 pm Sun likes talking about HP so much, as it enables them to pretend they are in the same class, when they are really in a minor league.Very well said! 2004-10-19 6:19 pm I actually wrote a blog entry on HP and their attempts to “muzzle” Sun:http://rjdohnert.blogspot.com/2004/10/hp-sends-letter-to-muzzle-sun…” Sun likes talking about HP so much, as it enables them to pretend they are in the same class, when they are really in a minor league. ”Actually I hold Sun in a higher class than I do HP. 2004-10-19 6:36 pm Actually I hold Sun in a higher class than I do HP. I respect your opinion, however fact is in business SUN is minor league 2004-10-19 9:36 pm They are trying to be like Dell, but since there names starts with H I guess that would make them Hell:b 2004-10-19 10:05 pm Okay I will be serious now.HP-UX, is a significant business for HP. HP is committed to our customers and to our products, and we have laid out the clearest, and most complete path of how we will continue to grow and enhance the best Unix operating environment available. This again is another fact.I would like to know what are the advantages of running HP-UX? After all it is a fact. 2004-10-19 11:39 pm RE: I respect your opinion, however fact is in business SUN is minor leagueOh, it looks like your being the entire your opinion is better than everyone else.Let’s look at the facts here. Solaris the most popular closed sourced UNIX operating system right now. UltraSPARC The most popular 64-bit CPU on the market today (that may change with AMD64)Sun.. created and purchased most of solaris… (yes they own rights to solaris, if you don’t believe me you must be smoking crack)Sun.. created the sparc and stayed true with itHP.. got a unix license to distribute HP-UX, yet did alot of work on itHP..got PA-RISC and discontinued it, acquired Alpha, the best 64-bit CPU and discontinued it in favor of IA-64 and now it looks like they may discontinue itOK.. let’s see on the market stats here.. It looks like HP and IBM ship more servers than sun but sun is like very close (in the top 5) 2004-10-19 11:51 pm Oh gee, this response from HP certainly makes me rethink everything Schwartz said about them. NOT! It has to be one of the lamest defenses I have seen, the whole interview sounds like the guy is just reciting some old regurgitated marketing materials. It is a dead giveaway that the company is in big trouble when the management can’t give an intelligent answer and resorts to meaningless marketing statements, how pathetic. May be HP should find a more passionate and technical person (like Schwartz) to defend their positions instead of letting some corporate zombie do it. Schwartz’s statements are not pleasant reading for HP, but his position on the whole thing is pretty spot on. Sorry HP, your latest moves with Itanic and HP-UX do not instill any confidence whatsoever, HP sucks.BTW, this HP guy is saying that university of hong kong migrated from Sun E10K to SuperDome like it is some sort of a big win. Replacing a crusty EOL’ed 8 year old (circa 1996) piece of Sun gear with shiny new SuperDome is not a win in my book — try doing the same trick with SF25K and such, don’t fight the already dead roadkill! If these sort of “wins” are at the top of HP’s list, then they’ve got a long way to go before they can say they actually took any customers from Sun.And what’s with these claims about HP’s leadership in Open Source community? If anything HP has almost no claim to fame in this department — the only allegiace HP has to Linux and OSS is selling Linux servers, which certainly wouldn’t count as any leadership at all. HP is still very much an M$ whore and Linux to HP is nothing more than just another opportunity to move more of that low margin gear. 2004-10-19 11:58 pm > Actually I hold Sun in a higher class than I do HP.> I respect your opinion, however fact is in business SUN is minor leagueYeah, you can comfort yourself with this “minor league” crap ad nauseum, but it is not going to change the reality of the situation — Sun and IBM are going to steal HP lunch pretty soon playing on the Itanic and HP-UX vulnerabilities. And by the way, HP *is* in the minor league compared to Sun as Sun is an end-to-end system company delivering solutions and not just lame hardware as HP is doing nowadays. Sun is the biggest Unix vendor out there, so what is all this “minor league” drivel all about? 2004-10-20 2:06 am This guy reminded me of this member of parlament (in a country I lived several years ago), from the Socialist party: during ever increasing student uprisings there were debates in the parliament, and this guy came to the pulpit visibly upset, and stated “They [the students] are saying that we are communistic thieves…and we are not!”Does this mean that the future of HP-UX is similar to the future of communism in Europe? Scary thought, if you’ve invested in HP-UX.I have done a lot of HP-UX administration in my life, but lately I am glad I moved to Solaris. 2004-10-20 3:22 am Hi,Well, it seems the Sun-bashes have paused in their attacks so they can…bash HP =). Personally, I would have to concur with the sentiments of Roberto above – I hold Sun in *much* higher regard than HP (I also think Schwartz, while a bit of a dickhead at times, is a lot smarter than *cough* Hall, as well as that weird guy from RH).Sun is a heavily r & d focused company – that’s real innovation, not whoring yourself out to the highest bidder. My respect for HP, whose main market – to me at least – seems to be $50 printers and consumer digital cameras these days has gone rapidly downhill in the last few years.Linux leader indeed *snort*.bye,Victor 2004-10-20 9:09 am Sun is a heavily r & d focused company – that’s real innovation, not whoring yourself out to the highest bidder. My respect for HP, whose main market – to me at least – seems to be $50 printers and consumer digital cameras these days has gone rapidly downhill in the last few years.Totally agree. If it wasn’t for toner cartridges HP’s entire(heavily subsidised) UNIX server market would be even fartherdown shit street than what it already is. They should putout o press release on their ‘industry standard’ toner… 2004-10-20 10:47 am for all those HP/Compaq fan boys, read and repeat; HP/Compaq have cut HP-UX R&D and staff head count – how can you trust them in the future if they’re already starting to cut the guts out of the UNIX business already?HP-UX isn’t an innovator, they’re a Dell want-a-be with a chip on their sholder; sooner or later Dell will kill HP off with its shear volume, and what will HP/Compaq be? a printer company with a few antiquated products being sold – god only knows how long it will take for the sheeple who purchase HP/Compaq products wake up, smell the cofee and realised they’ve been taken for a ride for the last several years, the fact they’ve been paying upwards of $200 more for the same hardware one could have easily purchased from Dell. 2004-10-20 1:11 pm Is this guy for real, Hong Kong University dumps their E10K for a SuperDome. Let’s see, the E10K is EOL, EOSL and Sun probably was not going to “give them the farm” to get them to buy more hardware. In addition, how good of a deal did HP give them to switch?!Changing platforms is not a trivial manner, its not just the hardware and the OS, it is also applications. If the applications are home grown and you have inside talent to port them, no big deal. If you are using commercial applications (Oracle, SAP) then you have to purchase the appropriate versions for HP-UX (not cheap). And there is that issue of Itanium, so if you buy PA-RISC now, you will have to buy Itanium compiled applications when you “upgrade”. Nothing like having a “bottomless pit” for a budget. I’m sure there is a lot more to these upgrades than what HP is telling everybody.I commented on this before and I think HP is worried that they could be losing sales to Sun (or anyone else for that matter). The decisions they are asking their customers to make are unreasonable. And just because HP made a mistake spending time and money on Itanium doesn’t mean that customers should follow suit. 2004-10-24 10:30 pm May the Schwartz be with you.