I was reading a little about the upgrade, and I think the general feeling is that you really shouldn’t use yum or any upgrade system, that isn’t the iso CD. Lots of little problems can happen that way. The only official way to upgrade is to use the CD. The CD should detect your current install and upgrade it for you. I hope that helps, but I’m waiting for the final release… I can barely wait.
You really can’t use it in the Enterprise. I think RedHat purposefully introduces bugs into it so that people can’t use it. There is so little testing done on it that I’m even afraid to install it on my home computer. Don’t waste your time with RedHat, go with a real open source OS (Debian or FreeBSD.) If you want a commercial OS, go with Solaris 10. I hear it is going to rock on x86/AMD64.
I think you are right that Fedora not a Enterprise system. In a Enterprise server you want super stable and well tested. Fedora is not that, it moves too fast. But do you really believe that Red Hat really adds bugs to the system?
if you want enterprise, go with Redhat Enterprise edition, which is robust and very well tested for the enterprise. Fedora is get the latest technology available at the least possible delay.
Well, one of the purpos with fedora is test “new” stuff. And when Fedora probebly is one of the bigger distributions around that mean that it will be tested a lot in diffrent areas and on diffrent hardware. More testing = more bugs found/fixed. In the end Fedora make it possible to develop software faster then before! So the Fedora project is in the end good for all of us. I have used it since core 1. Yes there is some bugs and as a production server it might not fit. But for the average “joe six pack” it will do!
This is rawhide “frozen” for the final FC3 release, the only changes that will be taken place is any last bugs. Thats the impression I got from the fedora-dev-list on Friday the 22 (when I d/l and installed it) 😉
I installed the candidatae version using http method. This release is a great improvment over Fedora Core 2.
Anaconda which is Fedora installer get some change with the inclusion of XFCE in the package configuration, MySQL and PostGREP are now separate suppressing the confusion about the SQL server configuration. It is possible to install some package previously used in RHEL3 which is a welcome addition.
The udev feature that allows to dynamically mount the partition and media really makes a lot of difference. No longer you have to manually mount the partition especially those who have more than an OS(in my case, Windows XP). CompactFlash Card are instantly detected thus the issue about ‘device is not found’ is over.
Gnome 2.8 seems to take MacOS approach with the new desktop layout which is perfect to change the skin to mimick MacOS. Notice the new background which look quite nice though I personnaly prefer Fedora Core 2 background.
KDE 3.3 is stable, got new sound theme. No much change other the ability to configure laptop IBM.
One thing I noticed is there are no sound when it comes to play audio CD. I don’t know if it affects other distros but so far I am unable to properly set it.
Overall, FC3rc1 is really an improvment over FC2. Red Hat and Fedora community can be proud of their work because the goal to set a general purpose OS is close to be achieved.
The kernel is nearly the same, but that’s not the whole distro. They made a new startup routine (detecting hardware in initrd) which make me go into trouble with my DVB card, which want to hotplug-loading his firmware from a non mounted partition.
Also my notebook feels like a i486/100mhz, if I start Fedora. Don’t know, which kernel patch they include in FC3. I disabled SELinux and all the other stuff step by step, but boottime is over 10min at a Toshiba Satellite Pro 4200 (Celeron 550Mhz, 256MB, latest Bios)
Think I switch into a vanilla distribution again. Sad to have more administration (compile myself programs) but haven’t had distribution specific problems like in Fedora or Suse…
the problem I have with automounting removable media (MDK does it too) is that there’s no way to auto*un*mount them, like you can with CDs. I’m afraid it’s going to lead to a bunch of people just unplugging the disk when they’re done writing to it, and filesystem corruption…
udev does auto*un*mount removable media without a problem. I used Compact Flash Card to do the experience with success. Rest assured that should not be a problem with the final version of FC3. I guess the difference with MDK automounting method is the implementation.
FC2 has been very stable for me. I’m not using it in my desktop but in the server running a mision critical enterprise web application (Apache2/PHP/Oracle) with 900+ concurrent users. And I’m looking forward to install FC3 in my workstation… udev looks really really nice!.
The server is an SMP 4X system (700MHz) with 2GB in RAM and the uptime right now is 25 days with a huge load and traffic.
Adamw – MDK uses supermount-ng which was never merged into the kernel.
fedora is using project utopia which includes udev,hal and gnome-volume-manager and it doesnt really have the problems you mention. its easily turned off per device and its completely a user defined policy. please read
MDK no longer uses supermount-ng, it uses udev and magicdev. I still don’t see how you can possibly unmount, say, a USB device when the user unplugs it. Er, well, let me refine that. You can send an unmount command when you detect the user unplugging it, but that doesn’t exactly help the fact that the device wasn’t properly unmounted before it was unplugged. Or does Utopia mount before performing an operation then unmount immediately after doing it? I hadn’t read anything to indicate this was the case, though maybe it’d be neat.
. You can send an unmount command when you detect the user unplugging it, but that doesn’t exactly help the fact that the device wasn’t properly unmounted before it was unplugged.
—-
when a device is mounted, the kernel events layer mechanism send a message to udev which notifies dbus which then uses hal and gnome volume manager(magicdev is obsolete now) which then does the right thing and it just works. try any distro with gnome 2.8 (fc3 or ubuntu for example) to check this out. ask in the mailing list above for more details
It might be a good idea, but it worked fine for me… This time, anyway. I tend to yum up through the test versions, which borked up X a couple times. I do a clean install with the final release, though.
you still don’t seem to be addressing my point…you seem to be talking about what happens when the device is plugged in, which is fine and dandy, but not what I was talking about. I was just suggesting that automounting when you plug a USB key or whatever in encourages unplugging it again without unmounting it, which can damage data. afaik utopia does nothing to help this – as soon as you plug the device in it’s mounted and it stays mounted.
I was just suggesting that automounting when you plug a USB key or whatever in encourages unplugging it again without unmounting it, which can damage data
—-
as far as I know you shouldnt just pull off your usb disk. you can umount it by right lick and ejecting the volume icon that you automatically get when you plugin the device with utopia. maybe it would be possible to create a cache of some sort so users can just pull it off. this would only be possible with the kernel events layer which has just been merged into linux-2.6.10rc and inotify which replaces dnotify(not merged yet)
yep, exactly . when you have to mount it manually you’re more likely to know you should unmount it too, when it’s automatically mounted there’s no reason you’d know that – theoretical Joe New Linux User will just unplug it again and figure that since the OS dealt with him plugging it in it shouldn’t have a problem with him unplugging it too. It’s not a bug or a flaw or anything, just an unfortunate consequence. If things could work as I suggested before (don’t just mount when it’s plugged in; pop up an icon, THEN, when the user attempts to *do* something, mount the volume, and after any kind of write takes place, unmount it immediately), that would be neat. Dunno how possible it is, though. The ugly Windows solution of sticking yet another notification icon in the panel saying “unmount here before ejecting hardware!” or whatever it says would probably be better than nothing, also.
I have been evaluating fedora core 3 test 3 and would like to make a few observations. I installed this OS on my thinkpad and have been testing it out the past few days.
First, I think linux has finally reached a point where I can consider permanently replacing windows with it. The os looks great, the apps run great and it feels solid.
There are two major issues or roadblocks that I think need to be addressed right away.
One, the package system is problematic. There are at least four different ways to upgrade or install packages. RPMs, Yum, add/remove applications, red hat network, etc. And the problem the whole thing seems to fall apart eventually. At some point I end up installing or upgrading myself into a corner and then I can no longer install something or something else breaks. The package system needs to be sorted out. I don’t know what the answer is, but it definitely needs to be worked on.
Secondly, the whole wireless thing. Somebody needs to spend more time making sure all the wireless drivers are in there. I have a netgear wireless g card that worked great with simplymepis, but fedora didn’t recognize it. Luckily I have an older prism card that works fine. Also, it is just generally difficult to get wireless working. On my mac osx powerbook, it picks up the wireless networks and automatically connects if possible. I feel I’m lucky if I can get my wireless to work at all. I have yet to get a WEP connection to work. I think this is possibly one of the most important things that fedora needs to get right. Everybody and their brother is going wireless.
What should occur then is that when JoeNewLinuxUser unplugs his usb drive before it is finished, he get a error message or notification balloon stating that his USB drive was still being used and should be replaced [this would be a good time to introduce him to the fact that he can right click on the drive icon and unmount it]
Having had the data that was being stored placed in a cache as stated earlier when he does replace the drive, upon successful remounting the transfer can simply be resumed.
You can just remove the drive without unmounting (at least with USB pendrives) with no data corruption. Udev keeps the disk “mounted” but not really… there are no lights on my USB drive unless I’m accessing/writing data.
Nope. GRUB(v. 0.95) will do a count to go directly to another OS (Windows XP in my case) or go the menu by pressing any key. My verification is done using GRUB on Master Boot.
If your replay is for my question, I just to say my desktop is a laptop. I try ubuntu and I love ubuntu but the laptop suport is not so good, MDK and FC have better support for laptop. The biggest problem in ubuntu is the battery support, in my case.
I’ll just wait until the DVD iso image is out.
ok, we’re happy for you.
yum updating right now.
After the installation, install the latest fedora-release package :
rpm -U http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/core/development/i386/Fedora/RPMS/…
I was reading a little about the upgrade, and I think the general feeling is that you really shouldn’t use yum or any upgrade system, that isn’t the iso CD. Lots of little problems can happen that way. The only official way to upgrade is to use the CD. The CD should detect your current install and upgrade it for you. I hope that helps, but I’m waiting for the final release… I can barely wait.
Yeah.. what’s up with this?
So this is newer than fc3test3 ?
or what…
> Yeah.. what’s up with this?
A snapshot of Rawhide.
> So this is newer than fc3test3 ?
Yes.
Yeah.. what’s up with this?
So this is newer than fc3test3 ?
or what…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
yes.
You really can’t use it in the Enterprise. I think RedHat purposefully introduces bugs into it so that people can’t use it. There is so little testing done on it that I’m even afraid to install it on my home computer. Don’t waste your time with RedHat, go with a real open source OS (Debian or FreeBSD.) If you want a commercial OS, go with Solaris 10. I hear it is going to rock on x86/AMD64.
Thanks for this great piece of FUD.
I think you are right that Fedora not a Enterprise system. In a Enterprise server you want super stable and well tested. Fedora is not that, it moves too fast. But do you really believe that Red Hat really adds bugs to the system?
if you want enterprise, go with Redhat Enterprise edition, which is robust and very well tested for the enterprise. Fedora is get the latest technology available at the least possible delay.
FC3 rc1, so this isn’t a test, but is there going to be a rc2… and then a final FC3, or is this the final FC3?
Well, one of the purpos with fedora is test “new” stuff. And when Fedora probebly is one of the bigger distributions around that mean that it will be tested a lot in diffrent areas and on diffrent hardware. More testing = more bugs found/fixed. In the end Fedora make it possible to develop software faster then before! So the Fedora project is in the end good for all of us. I have used it since core 1. Yes there is some bugs and as a production server it might not fit. But for the average “joe six pack” it will do!
This is rawhide “frozen” for the final FC3 release, the only changes that will be taken place is any last bugs. Thats the impression I got from the fedora-dev-list on Friday the 22 (when I d/l and installed it) 😉
http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2004-October/msg01…
quote
“There’s a tree available that looks pretty close to what FC3 will be.
The main URL is http://testing.fedora.redhat.com/tree/ and there’s a
mirror at http://fedora.linux.duke.edu/FC3-rc1/3/
Please try to break it. Especially interesting are bugs in the kernel, and
any installer bugs resulting from kernel changes.
Have fun,
— Elliot
We’re so busy putting out fires that we don’t take time to stop kids from
playing with matches.”
If you looking for a free RHEL release have a look at Centos. Recently discovered it but seems to be fulfilling my purposes great.
I installed the candidatae version using http method. This release is a great improvment over Fedora Core 2.
Anaconda which is Fedora installer get some change with the inclusion of XFCE in the package configuration, MySQL and PostGREP are now separate suppressing the confusion about the SQL server configuration. It is possible to install some package previously used in RHEL3 which is a welcome addition.
The udev feature that allows to dynamically mount the partition and media really makes a lot of difference. No longer you have to manually mount the partition especially those who have more than an OS(in my case, Windows XP). CompactFlash Card are instantly detected thus the issue about ‘device is not found’ is over.
Gnome 2.8 seems to take MacOS approach with the new desktop layout which is perfect to change the skin to mimick MacOS. Notice the new background which look quite nice though I personnaly prefer Fedora Core 2 background.
KDE 3.3 is stable, got new sound theme. No much change other the ability to configure laptop IBM.
One thing I noticed is there are no sound when it comes to play audio CD. I don’t know if it affects other distros but so far I am unable to properly set it.
Overall, FC3rc1 is really an improvment over FC2. Red Hat and Fedora community can be proud of their work because the goal to set a general purpose OS is close to be achieved.
Why would i want to upgrade my Fedora Core 2 machines to 3? the kernel is largely the same if i am not mistaken. As far as bugs FC2 works great!
The kernel is nearly the same, but that’s not the whole distro. They made a new startup routine (detecting hardware in initrd) which make me go into trouble with my DVB card, which want to hotplug-loading his firmware from a non mounted partition.
Also my notebook feels like a i486/100mhz, if I start Fedora. Don’t know, which kernel patch they include in FC3. I disabled SELinux and all the other stuff step by step, but boottime is over 10min at a Toshiba Satellite Pro 4200 (Celeron 550Mhz, 256MB, latest Bios)
Think I switch into a vanilla distribution again. Sad to have more administration (compile myself programs) but haven’t had distribution specific problems like in Fedora or Suse…
Does anyone know what changes should i make to sources.list to upgrade using apt?
the problem I have with automounting removable media (MDK does it too) is that there’s no way to auto*un*mount them, like you can with CDs. I’m afraid it’s going to lead to a bunch of people just unplugging the disk when they’re done writing to it, and filesystem corruption…
udev does auto*un*mount removable media without a problem. I used Compact Flash Card to do the experience with success. Rest assured that should not be a problem with the final version of FC3. I guess the difference with MDK automounting method is the implementation.
Stop the FUD.
FC2 has been very stable for me. I’m not using it in my desktop but in the server running a mision critical enterprise web application (Apache2/PHP/Oracle) with 900+ concurrent users. And I’m looking forward to install FC3 in my workstation… udev looks really really nice!.
The server is an SMP 4X system (700MHz) with 2GB in RAM and the uptime right now is 25 days with a huge load and traffic.
Adamw – MDK uses supermount-ng which was never merged into the kernel.
fedora is using project utopia which includes udev,hal and gnome-volume-manager and it doesnt really have the problems you mention. its easily turned off per device and its completely a user defined policy. please read
http://gnome.org/start/2.8/notes/rnwhatsnew.html
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/utopia-list
MDK no longer uses supermount-ng, it uses udev and magicdev. I still don’t see how you can possibly unmount, say, a USB device when the user unplugs it. Er, well, let me refine that. You can send an unmount command when you detect the user unplugging it, but that doesn’t exactly help the fact that the device wasn’t properly unmounted before it was unplugged. Or does Utopia mount before performing an operation then unmount immediately after doing it? I hadn’t read anything to indicate this was the case, though maybe it’d be neat.
. You can send an unmount command when you detect the user unplugging it, but that doesn’t exactly help the fact that the device wasn’t properly unmounted before it was unplugged.
—-
when a device is mounted, the kernel events layer mechanism send a message to udev which notifies dbus which then uses hal and gnome volume manager(magicdev is obsolete now) which then does the right thing and it just works. try any distro with gnome 2.8 (fc3 or ubuntu for example) to check this out. ask in the mailing list above for more details
What’s the point to report abuse from poster above when he/she only gives information about udev feature? I am really confused.
Hi
some people just have a grudge over me because I dont troll like them perhaps?. never mind. the moderators can take care of that.
It might be a good idea, but it worked fine for me… This time, anyway. I tend to yum up through the test versions, which borked up X a couple times. I do a clean install with the final release, though.
you still don’t seem to be addressing my point…you seem to be talking about what happens when the device is plugged in, which is fine and dandy, but not what I was talking about. I was just suggesting that automounting when you plug a USB key or whatever in encourages unplugging it again without unmounting it, which can damage data. afaik utopia does nothing to help this – as soon as you plug the device in it’s mounted and it stays mounted.
I was just suggesting that automounting when you plug a USB key or whatever in encourages unplugging it again without unmounting it, which can damage data
—-
as far as I know you shouldnt just pull off your usb disk. you can umount it by right lick and ejecting the volume icon that you automatically get when you plugin the device with utopia. maybe it would be possible to create a cache of some sort so users can just pull it off. this would only be possible with the kernel events layer which has just been merged into linux-2.6.10rc and inotify which replaces dnotify(not merged yet)
yep, exactly
. when you have to mount it manually you’re more likely to know you should unmount it too, when it’s automatically mounted there’s no reason you’d know that – theoretical Joe New Linux User will just unplug it again and figure that since the OS dealt with him plugging it in it shouldn’t have a problem with him unplugging it too. It’s not a bug or a flaw or anything, just an unfortunate consequence. If things could work as I suggested before (don’t just mount when it’s plugged in; pop up an icon, THEN, when the user attempts to *do* something, mount the volume, and after any kind of write takes place, unmount it immediately), that would be neat. Dunno how possible it is, though. The ugly Windows solution of sticking yet another notification icon in the panel saying “unmount here before ejecting hardware!” or whatever it says would probably be better than nothing, also.
I have been evaluating fedora core 3 test 3 and would like to make a few observations. I installed this OS on my thinkpad and have been testing it out the past few days.
First, I think linux has finally reached a point where I can consider permanently replacing windows with it. The os looks great, the apps run great and it feels solid.
There are two major issues or roadblocks that I think need to be addressed right away.
One, the package system is problematic. There are at least four different ways to upgrade or install packages. RPMs, Yum, add/remove applications, red hat network, etc. And the problem the whole thing seems to fall apart eventually. At some point I end up installing or upgrading myself into a corner and then I can no longer install something or something else breaks. The package system needs to be sorted out. I don’t know what the answer is, but it definitely needs to be worked on.
Secondly, the whole wireless thing. Somebody needs to spend more time making sure all the wireless drivers are in there. I have a netgear wireless g card that worked great with simplymepis, but fedora didn’t recognize it. Luckily I have an older prism card that works fine. Also, it is just generally difficult to get wireless working. On my mac osx powerbook, it picks up the wireless networks and automatically connects if possible. I feel I’m lucky if I can get my wireless to work at all. I have yet to get a WEP connection to work. I think this is possibly one of the most important things that fedora needs to get right. Everybody and their brother is going wireless.
What should occur then is that when JoeNewLinuxUser unplugs his usb drive before it is finished, he get a error message or notification balloon stating that his USB drive was still being used and should be replaced [this would be a good time to introduce him to the fact that he can right click on the drive icon and unmount it]
Having had the data that was being stored placed in a cache as stated earlier when he does replace the drive, upon successful remounting the transfer can simply be resumed.
I’am looking for FC3
ScreenShots ..ScreenShots ..ScreenShots ..
P L E A S E
I want a Review, please.
Is more stable?
Is fast, how fast is (FC2 VS FC3 VS Ubuntu).
Is it still there?
(I know that it wasn’t fedora specific, but I have stuck with FC1 because of it).
Do you need speed? FCx will never be as fast as Ubuntu (or other distros). Try it, on laptop runs very, very well.
You can just remove the drive without unmounting (at least with USB pendrives) with no data corruption. Udev keeps the disk “mounted” but not really… there are no lights on my USB drive unless I’m accessing/writing data.
Is it still there?
Nope. GRUB(v. 0.95) will do a count to go directly to another OS (Windows XP in my case) or go the menu by pressing any key. My verification is done using GRUB on Master Boot.
If your replay is for my question, I just to say my desktop is a laptop. I try ubuntu and I love ubuntu but the laptop suport is not so good, MDK and FC have better support for laptop. The biggest problem in ubuntu is the battery support, in my case.