A recent survey found that 3/4 of IT managers surveyed reported having morale problems among their staffs. Layoffs, uncertainty, high stress, and incompetent management all contribute to a feeling of malaise among tech workers today. Layoffs have left firms understaffed, and workers feel growing resentment towards their bosses, the survey suggests. How are you feeling about your job?
How do I feel about my job? Two words….Under Paid
Stuck at a job I really don’t like, career stagnating, but I should be thankful I even have a job.
I work in IT, we are understaffed….our once vibrant company now employs 4 people, and most of the programming is done through internships for zero pay. My morale has hit rock bottom. Over here in Germany we’ve lost approx 100k jobs in the last two years, most major companies are outsourcing or cutting even more despite the fact that they are drastically understaffed. However….
I’d say we boom is way over and it’s never coming back. Everyday I slave away at just-another-class, headaches and low pay is what I get in return.
The third world countries, despite the lack of a proper infrastructure are blooming nowadays, But…..
I believe we’ll find another way of making money. Just as back in our parent’s day the computer was about to take away their job, they actually ended up using computers to make money (Who nowadays worries about the computer taking away jobs?). I think the same thing will happen with Indians and Chinese people taking away ours. We have to be creative and discover new ways of making money, they will (unfortunately) have to (again) do our dirty work (and that means programming), whereas we in the first world will delegate what needs to be done.
Ach, this is a rant and I have so many things to say that I’ll just leave it at this.
Is this really OS news material? This seems more like a politics slashdot article except with even less material.
Anyway, there’s not much innovation in IT today. I doubt we’ll see gain in job count until companies stop fighting each other over scraps of IP and start inventing again. Job loss is just an indicator of the industry status. I think people should go back to college anyway. That’s always a good recommendation. If today’s companies aren’t supplying jobs, start your own. It’s more work but it pays better.
But then, none of this interests me. I come here for OS news, not job or economic news.
Just curious, but is it any better outside of IT?
Any industry out there that isn’t suffering “Layoffs, uncertainty, high stress, and incompetent management”?
>>How do I feel about my job? Two words….Under Paid
Here too. And under staffed. The number of desktops and servers supported have expanded, but not the IT staff. On top of that, we keep getting more and more responsibilities piled on us, by bringing services in-house in order to ‘cut costs’. It sure does cut costs, but also the amount of time I get to spend with my family. I guess I should be happy that I at least have a job…
And looking for work. I at least have some experience with just about everything (though concentrating more on hardware), but every job I apply for I’m either underqualified, competing against people with at least 10 years more experience than myself (and this is for entry level positions), or overqualified (I can’t get a generic positions involving computers because I have ‘nix experience and they equate that with ‘must pay higher’)
I don’t have any high demands, I just want a job right now period. I’d start my own company, I have a few good ideas, but no cash to get started.
any screenshot?
🙂
chris
Here in the UK, everyone (goverment and industry) says we need more people with IT qulifications, yet the industry seems horribly over-subscribed to me. Is this just pesimism on my part?
I am in the same boat, at least my job pays for my further education so I can do something else should I chose to afterward. Such is life, continuing struggle – no one said it would be easy once I got an education…
Yup. I’m just working a semi-sorta-computer related job to (mostly) pay the bills while still looking for a software dev position. They all seem to be looking for very experienced project lead / architect type folks with 10 years experience. Also a number of soul-sucking finance-related jobs in my area (they want loads of experience as well, plus experience in finance).
Working in retail for barely enough to pay bills (and sometimes not enough) sucks. Having a boss complain to you daily that you’re not bleeding your customers for enough cash sucks. It seems like no one cares about having smart math/science types around anymore. My degree (B.S.) is in physics.
Bleh.
Do your self a favor, if you want to get an IT job, and have been out of work, DO NOT take a job at a bank.. The worst place for IT people…
Banks don’t get IT, and the Auditors that audit banks don’t get IT.. So you just get screwed from both ends.
Take a guess how I feel about my job.
Well, I consider myself lucky:
I’m near London. I have a good boss that treats us well, I get to try new things, learn and all that. The only bad thing is that I am getting a lot less cash that I could be getting, but my job is mostly stress free and very rewarding (the fact that it is 5 minutes bicycle ride from my house helps too, no train fares and no commuting).
I also have a small business doing custom software and it gives me a bit more money
I got this job from an advert on the local paper. I wouldn’t even dream of working in London at the moment.
From what I see the market is a lot better in small businesses than it is on large companies. You even get higher job security.
I’m not very happy and want new challenges. But before it, I want some time on the beach. 🙂
… apart from that, it’s perfectly alright. But those are 2 big things.
… not allowed to take any initiative … always have an overbearing control freak looking over my shoulder.
Your life and destiny is what you make it
Tell that to the millions and millions of people living under the poverty level all over the world. Your life is as much governed by social and other circumstances, often even more, than by your own decisions.
In the USA you usually need to have lots of money/rich parents to get a university education, for example. Also it is always useful to have good relationships when seeking for good jobs, and vice versa, etc.
IMHO, the idea of your life and destiny being just what you make it, is one of the most disgusting aspects of the American dream heritage, ethos and mythology that has caused lots of poverty, hypocrisy and social problems.
The USA is perhaps the world’s richest country
see:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2001rank.htm…
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2004rank.htm…
where you are supposed to make it if you just try hard enough. Well, many people try very hard but they still suffer. Do the wealthy people care? Often not, because many just say that it is your own fault if you’ve problems. That’s not much better ideology than the caste system of India IMO.
The wealthy, like some well paid IT people, they, on the other hand, often have to work like slaves to maintain their positions, and the future may often not be sure even then. When your company owners decide to throw some people out so that they could fill their own pockets more, it might also be you who will find yourself unemployed. Your own fault? No, it is more due to the circumstances, politics, economics and such things.
Tell us again how 5.4% unemployment / 2.7% inflation for Bush is BAD BAD BAD, and 5.2% unemployment/3% inflation for Clinton in ’96 was GREAT!!
It’s funny how people hellbent on defending Bush do so by attacking Clinton, like I give two shits about Clinton. There really isn’t much difference between terrible and horrible.
Your life and destiny is what you make it( or what government taxation allows you to make it..) Go ahead and blame Bush, the cuplrit is still in your mirror.
I don’t blame Bush. Only problem I have with Bush is that he defends the practice, saying it’s essential for companies to outrource in order to compete in a global market, while at the same time the companies doing the outsourcing are giving their CEOs $20 million dollar pay raises and passing little-to-none of the profits along to their customers. Please don’t misunderstand me – this is a free country and under the law, companies are free to do that if they want to. But if you’re going to outsource my job, be honest and say you’re doing it because you’re a greedy bastard who wants more money – don’t lie to me and tell me it’s for my own good.
In the USA you usually need to have lots of money/rich parents to get a university education, for example. Also it is always useful to have good relationships when seeking for good jobs, and vice versa, etc.
A study by Forbes reveals that company CEOs who never made it out of high school are worth 300% more than those who graduated from college. Not to say that an education isn’t important, but it is possible for one to get educated for $1.50 – it’s called a library card.
“In the USA you usually need to have lots of money/rich parents to get a university education, for example. Also it is always useful to have good relationships when seeking for good jobs, and vice versa, etc.”
Middle class in a University here. No loans yet either, I dunno what you’re talking about.
And yes, full time.
“IMHO, the idea of your life and destiny being just what you make it, is one of the most disgusting aspects of the American dream heritage, ethos and mythology that has caused lots of poverty, hypocrisy and social problems. ”
This is the most ridiculous notion I have ever heard. This statement runs contrary to freedom itself. Its not whether you try HARD enough, its if you make the right choices.
If you make the wrong choices, there are problem you will face which will (hopefully) cause you to make different choices in the future. Politicians constantly try to subsidize these poor decisions and are shocked when such activity increases.
Actually the people who most often benefit from businesses are people themselves. I hate to break it to you but $ in the hands of businesses comes from consumers Choosing to buy there. People whine when businesses attempt to save some money, but don’t complain much when they have access to inexpensive goods and services.
Do you realize that something north of 80% of people in the bottom 20% of income earners end up in the top 20% at some point in their lives? Do your own research. Not to mention that a low income in some areas, is considered middle income in others. Try living on 75k/year in San Fran.
Perhaps it shocks you that you can get an education in this country SOLELY on your word. They are called student loans.
I make about 75k (which is a good amount in my area), and I have a 2 year degree from a community college. Oh yea, my parents were lower-middle income and paid zero for my college. So much for your theory.
As for other countries, they most often cause their own problems. If we are behind France, Germany and Italy(for example), then why do all 3 of those countries have LOW gdp and high unemployment?
Any country could emulate the US and become more affluent, but they won’t. Freedom isnt free and they will not pay the price.
If I can’t determine my own future, could you send me the phone number of who does?
but it is possible for one to get educated for $1.50 – it’s called a library card.
Educated perhaps, but to get most jobs they want a piece of paper saying you know what you know. Oh, and how many CEOs are there (in the study you mentioned) that didn’t finish high school?
A few years (~3) back you could open up the classified section and find two pages worth of computer jobs, and few other pages of related stuff. After the dot com crash though you’ll be lucky to find one tenth of a page, and I don’t really see this changing anytime soon mainly because the economy is in the dumps.
Corporations are figuring out ways to outsource anything that can be outsourced, and pushing anything else on their current work force. What does this mean? It means that you’ll get higher work loads for the same pay or less, and that alot of your buddies at work will be laid off. Alot of people say outsourcing is good, alot say it’s bad. Guess we’ll have to wait and see.
[quote]People whine when businesses attempt to save some money, but don’t complain much when they have access to inexpensive goods and services.[/quote]
In the case of IT companies who develop software, I haven’t seen any evidence that outsourcing American jobs are actually saving people money? Anyway, even if this is the case, it’s kind of dumb (IMHO) to tell people who are unemployed that they’are actually going to save money by having their jobs outsourced.
Educated perhaps, but to get most jobs they want a piece of paper saying you know what you know.
Not entirely true. As other posters have pointed out, you don’t need rich parents to get university degrees. And even if you absolutely could not go, another way is to start from the bottom of a company and work your way up.
Oh, and how many CEOs are there (in the study you mentioned) that didn’t finish high school?
What difference does it make? My point wasn’t that you don’t need an education, just that there are too many people sitting around thinking they can’t do anything in life because they can’t get a handout from somebody. Everybody has to get started somewhere. I started at Darily Queen making minimum wage – I now work in the IT field making $35k a year. Is that a lot? No, but it’s a helluva lot better than minimum wage, plus I’m just getting started .. not even close to hitting my peak.
There are no decent jobs in IT any more, someone practically has to die for a spot to open up. Plus IT gets NO RESPECT!!!! Accounting is boring, but it pays the bills and the boss takes me out to lunch.
Please don’t misunderstand me – this is a free country and under the law, companies are free to do that if they want to. But if you’re going to outsource my job, be honest and say you’re doing it because you’re a greedy bastard who wants more money – don’t lie to me and tell me it’s for my own good.
Personally, I think the law *should* say something about it. Perhaps something like, “sure, you may outsource if you want, but you’ll be taxed severely on any savings you think you’re making by selling out your countrymen.”
Also — to Metic — ash’s point was that he’s not really worried about losing his job due to offshoring, because he’s so skilled and experienced that he’ll just pick up something else.
Though, I think the point to reckon with here is, even if you are superior to others and can always find a job, do you want to live in a country where most everyone else just a *little* less skilled/experienced than you is unemployed because they’re “not trying hard enough”.
I’m way underemployed. Maybe I’m not not trying hard enough — maybe I need to give even less attention to my wife and kids and spend more time in front of the computer? Do you see my point Ash?
Middle class in a University here. No loans yet either, I dunno what you’re talking about. And yes, full time.
Ok, great. And maybe I should have written about getting to the best US universities instead or something like that. But you could also consider many other countries where the situation is such that only very few privileged people can get to university. Anyway, that education thing was just an example, maybe not the best possible.
And yes, there are always a few people, who have luck and make it and become very rich without a university (or any other) degree. But there’s always thousands of other people who would have liked to achieve something similar but couldn’t though they may have sometimes tried even harder than the few privilged ones.
Not everyone can become Bill Gates. That was my point. And that the American dream idea of your life and destiny being only what you make it is, to a great degree, pure nonsense. IMHO, the idea may also increase social and economic inequality as the rich can just say that the poor and the unprivileged deserve their poverty and then completely forget about them.
ash writes:
Actually the people who most often benefit from businesses are people themselves. I hate to break it to you but $ in the hands of businesses comes from consumers Choosing to buy there. People whine when businesses attempt to save some money, but don’t complain much when they have access to inexpensive goods and services.
Ash, when folks can barely make their mortgage/rent and health insurance payments, and need stuff, they are often pretty much forced to make hard choices like buying cheap foreign/imported goods rather than american made (by american employees).
There’s a vicious circle there — i.e., just relying on the market to fix it won’t fix it.
I am in IT for many years, then I was out of IT for over a year (layed-off), I took medical coding classes and passed, but those jobs are as tight as IT jobs (even though the advertising for the schools say different) but the pay is less and the work is boring, plus medical billing and coding is also getting off-shored to India and China for low labor.
I am back in IT now and with a Great company. I love working IT and luckily have found a good position with good pay.
I understand the many that are not so lucky.
I was resentful for quite a while, but there are still jobs out there and as in any industry there can be good and bad.
This is the most ridiculous notion I have ever heard. This statement runs contrary to freedom itself.
Oh, and this abstract concept of freedom is yet another quite obscure and odd idea of the American culture, just like the idea of the Americaan dream. Everybody sure talks about freedom a lot in the States, but often the word lacks any real content whatsoever. Freedom may mean just about anything.
You have freedom to insult and rob the poor and the unprivileged? You are defending freedom when you outsource IT jobs to India? You’re defending freedom when you say that the poor countries all deserve their poverty? Freedom of speech is very important, however, I agree.
As for other countries, they most often cause their own problems.
It may be that the former poor Iraqi government has caused much of Iraqi problems today. But the country used to be relatively rich and have quite good social services too, though before Saddam time.
Finland, my home country, has quite a different social policy from taht of the USA: lots of public sector social services etc. Yet Finland is considered the most competitive national economy:
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-10/21/content_384323….
Not to say that Finland woldn’t have many problems though.
Its not whether you try HARD enough, its if you make the right choices.
That’s just another obscure idea that means nothing real. If you were an innocent Iraqi youngster, and get a US bomb on your head, is it because of your own wrong choices only? Or if you just have to live in poverty? What about the choices of important people around you: Saddam, George W. Bush etc? Often the decisions that those important politicians make mean a lot more to your life than what you can do or decide yourself.
The worst thing about my job is that it’s high stress with no reward for thinking of ways to improve the workload & a bunch of users that don’t even know the basics.
If your users all know the basics then the job is a lot easier and stress, as well as staff requirements go down. If on the other hand, as I and one other fellow put up with, the users don’t have the basics, and by that I mean:
* Being able to add a printer
* Being able to create a shortcut on the desktop
* Being able to install a toner into a printer when full detailed instructions are included in the box.
* Knowing how to cut and paste files & blocks of text
* When they delete a file, not being able to tell you where they deleted it from, as they just *had* to get that last minute thing done
* Being able to find the Control Panel (I kid you not)
This is just the start, don’t get me started; some struggle to find the My Computer icon 😛
To make it worse, the IT Manager doesn’t understand how this impacts on our ability to get administrative jobs done or why we are behind in the help desk jobs, he’s too busy being a control freak who wants to “spoon-feed” us jobs. Considering that between the two of us, we have over 20 years IT Support experience, this is why we are so pi..ed off with the whole thing.
Therefore, the situation has no chance of being remedied any time soon. He feels that “users shouldn’t have to be technocrats”, well, police officers shouldn’t have to shoot people either but it’s unfortunately part of their job to do so if required. What’s more disturbing is that some of these people have PC’s at home.
In all honesty it’s like getting on a plane & finding that the pilot can’t land the damn thing when you are 20000 feet in the air. There seem to be a mentality of “Oooh, it plugs into a power point, better call IT” – the Dilbert principle has never been so graphically illustrated …
At least this gives us a lot of job security but now both of us are looking for other jobs. At least in Australia the job market in IT is starting to turn the corner & there are enough jobs for experienced staff like us to go to if this sort of crap happens.
It just pi..es me off that I get to spend so little time with my family because of a control freak and his policies.
Regards,
Andrew.
Yes, it’s often noticed that at very high levels of business, there are a lot of people with surprisingly little education. This is constant across developed countries and has been for many years. The accepted explanation is that those with a very high innate talent for business tend to get restless in the educational system and leave early to exploit the ability they know they have. It doesn’t mean that not having an education somehow makes you a *worse* management candidate.
It also doesn’t mean that skipping college is a good thing. Sure, a very few talented people do it and do very, very, very well. But then, several million *more* people don’t go to college and end up working in KFC. No matter what the anecdotal evidence of a few people at very high levels of business, it’s inarguably true that, overall, those with college-level education get much better jobs than those without.
Oh, and how many CEOs are there (in the study you mentioned) that didn’t finish high school?
What difference does it make?
Well, if there was only one CEO without a high school education in a sample size of 1000 or something, then it doesn’t really prove anything just that one guy can get lucky. However, I do agree with your point that you don’t need to be wealthy to go to school.
Anyays, I’m in a similar situation to everyone else here. Bachelor’s degree and working a shitty job to pay the bills. I’m thinking of getting out of IT and moving into something more lucrative, maybe geology or something.
“Personally, I think the law *should* say something about it. Perhaps something like, “sure, you may outsource if you want, but you’ll be taxed severely on any savings you think you’re making by selling out your countrymen.”
Ah. So I expect you’d be in favour of high tariff barriers on imports from Asia, Latin America and Africa (the source of all your cars, consumer electronics and clothes, kids) in order to protect the economies of those areas, too? Or is it OK for America to buy stuff cheap from the rest of the world, but not for things to go in the other direction?
“Personally, I think the law *should* say something about it. Perhaps something like, “sure, you may outsource if you want, but you’ll be taxed severely on any savings you think you’re making by selling out your countrymen.”
You can do such things, true, but that often costs jobs also. It simply hurts different jobs than the ones you wish to protect.
1. What if the other country is buying American goods and decides to respond in kind? The American companies who relied on those foreign goods will incur higher expenses and lose jobs. This is _Precisely_ what happened when Bush instituted Steel tariffs. Steel prices went up, people in other industries began to be layed off.
2. If a company sells 10 million widgets, they have a different cost structure than a startup hoping to sell 10,000. Since the cheap alternatives(foreign) are cut off, you effectively help the big companies get bigger. High prices are a barrier to entry to small businesses.
These two points aside, any company I am invested in had BETTER be as profitable as they can be. This is a trust I put in them when I invested. So how many retirees will we hurt with protective trade practices?
Whatever I think about my job, I have one, and it’s well paid and reasonably stable for at least a couple of years. So on that front, I won’t complain.
“In the USA you usually need to have lots of money/rich parents to get a university education, for example.”
I’m sorry but that statement is just incorrect. I’m a living testament to that. Been working on my CS degree while working full time for 4 years. It’s paying off. Started school laying fiberglass for a yacht builder…now programming for a living. At the yacht construction job I’d read and/or did homework during lunch while the others sucked on their cigarettes. I’ve also supported a family of 4 throughtout said time.
Any other 3rd world country I’d say you’re right (Peru for example…I lived there). But the USA has more opportunity than most people give credit for lately.
And yes, there are always a few people, who have luck and make it and become very rich without a university (or any other) degree.
Do you understand that a lot of people who are millionaries in this country started out with nothing? Saying that you have to be rich to get rich is a myth. Otherwise, nobody would ever get rich, no? And yes, some people are just lucky, but you don’t have to be lucky to get rich. If your goal in life is to get filthy, stining rich, then find out what rich people have done to get that way and do the exact same thing.
But there’s always thousands of other people who would have liked to achieve something similar but couldn’t though they may have sometimes tried even harder than the few privilged ones.
Again, it’s not necesarily how hard someone tries. Part of being successful in life is to find out what doesn’t work and do something else. If what you have been trying for years isn’t working for you, why not do something else? Pretty much anybody who is successful in life and actually worked for it has failed over and over again, but each time they failed, they learned from it. That is the key. Sure, you may have a bomb dropped on your head or die in a car crash, but just knowing this, does that mean people should sit on their ass their entire life and do nothing?
No matter what the anecdotal evidence of a few people at very high levels of business, it’s inarguably true that, overall, those with college-level education get much better jobs than those without.
You’re right. And my point wasn’t to underscore the importance of education. I’m simply saying that just because you can’t go to the best university in the country, that you should sit on your ass and flip burgers for the rest of your life. If you really have the drive, there are other ways.
I’m not very happy and want new challenges. But before it, I want some time on the beach. 🙂
Sorry, I just lived through three of the four hurricanes that hit Florida this past September. I want time AWAY from the beach! 😉
That I joined the Army and am now stationed in Germany. F*U*C*K IT, and the corporate executive wh0res who ruined it.
Tell us again how 5.4% unemployment / 2.7% inflation for Bush is BAD BAD BAD, and 5.2% unemployment/3% inflation for Clinton in ’96 was GREAT!!
That’s easy. The Bush administration changed how unemployment was calculated a few years ago. It immediately dropped the unemployment level. Using the method used during the Clinton administration for calculating unemployment, we would be around 7% to 8%. If we used France’s current method, we would be up around 10%.
Man.. I really really hate that. YOu should have to pass a test to use a computer now-a-days. I don’t understand people wanting to do complex things without having mastered the basics. 30% of my time at least is devoted to those issues…
First off to whoever said this:
“That’s easy. The Bush administration changed how unemployment was calculated a few years ago. It immediately dropped the unemployment level. Using the method used during the Clinton administration for calculating unemployment, we would be around 7% to 8%. If we used France’s current method, we would be up around 10%”
Who cares about France? They have had employment problems for years. Their socialist economy stifles job growth. No one there gets a raise, why do you think there is labor strikes there all of the time?
With that being said, I can happily say my job now is good. I was a DoD contractor for a while and let me tell you something, it was terrible. Really political.As for being in the IT field I think this statement covers it:
At best you can just hope things are running like they are supposed to. The only time people even know you are there is when something is broken or not accessible.
In all honesty, if all my servers are up and running and everyone can access them, no one cares if I even show up to work or not (they really do care, but you get the point).
What gets me is someone rating my job performance who has no idea of what I do. Or even worse, interviewing for a job with some idiot HR person who is using key words to weed you out from the other 500 applications she has. Though she hasn’t the slightest idea of what you may do or what it entails, your career is in her hands. (note I said her because most HR people are women, altough I have been telephone interviewed by a few idiot men HR people too)
Who cares about France?
The French and the people of the EU in general?
You know there’s a whole world outside of the US…,, and OSnews is not a US only website as far as I know.
http://www.bls.gov/cps/eetech_intro.pdf
http://www.bls.gov/dolfaq/bls_ques23.htm
Which part of this changed? Links?
I think you are speaking out of your …..
Truth is Germany, France and other countries with large unemployment benefits have….*surprise* high unemployment.
I suppose you can explain France’s 0.5% GDP?
If you want more of something, subsidize it. If you want less tax it…..
re: users that dont know basics
It has always been like that. I’ve been working in the IT field for a long, long time (in the U.S. Navy, from 1986 until 1992, and professionally since 1992, both as a tech. and as a programmer), and I’ve always had problems with users that just don’t even know the basics of computer operation. It’s no wonder that some colleges and universities in the U.S. are starting to force computer basics on pretty much all curriculums.
Ash, I don’t have an answer for you. I know there’s a difference between free trade and fair trade, I know that jobs seem to be getting more scarce (here in the US), and I think something should be done. My best guess is that we should be manufacturing (or “creating”, in the case of software) more of the goods that we consume, but I’m certainly no economist — not that I think the economists have all the answers either.
The one thing that seems certain to me though: looking around, almost nothing we consume is made here anymore. The car I drove to work in, the chair I’m currently sitting in, the computers around me, the telephone, etc. ad infinitum. That doesn’t look like a good sign to me.
Who are you going to hold accountable for the unemployment if you want to tax it? The people who are unemployed aren’t likely to be able to pay. The community has little to no say in the matter if a factory closes down and fires everybody and moves overseas. And you don’t seem to favor any type of penalties against companies at all (litigation against Corporate officers? Obscene Income Taxes (a 10 million dollar/year salary cap? Corporate Death Penalty).
Ultimately no corporate responsibility at all in this, increasing automation (“Quiet, or I’ll replace you with a shell script.” isn’t an empty threat you know) and no way for people to survive unemployed can only serve to make all labor disposable. Thats why fast food restaurants, telemarketing, etc can survive having extremely high turnover rates, and horrible working environments.
This isn’t good for businesses either. How many Maytag products will be sold in Galesburg, or the midwest in general in the next few years?
After 5 years of OS and server development, and 3 years of IT experience prior to that, I’m sick and tired.
Maybe I’ll win the lottery and move to Belize to run a scuba shop or something.
Computers suck.
But all I hear is: “Overtime! Overtime! Overtime!” – crunch! crunch! crunch!
Really in USA the situation with the overtime is bad. The law would just not protect me if I’m exempt from overtime pay, and my employer can force me to work as long as he wants (we’ll the 80 hours upper limit, 12 hours max on weekdays, 10 on weekends – sum of 12×5 + 2×10 = 80).
And what do I get for all that – Pizza, Quiznos, Subs, In-Out, and any other junk food (which in my old days tasted good, but since I moved to diet and exercises my body could no longer “afford” it). Then no time for buddies, bars, socializing, gym or whatever other things pleases you.
Then you get some fucked up management telling you how the job is so challenging, and that’s the joy of it, or coworkers talking to you that if you don’t like it – go find another place. Then the young generation comes, willing to work much longer hours than you, and so and so…
I’m thinking of leaving US, and coming back to Europe – find some country where the laws are good enough, even if it’s not the best economic country, or even if my half salary goes for taxes – I don’t care about money now, I care about my free time.
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In the USA you usually need to have lots of money/rich parents to get a university education, for example. Also it is always useful to have good relationships when seeking for good jobs, and vice versa, etc.
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LMFAO – You’ve got to be kidding me. My parents made a total of $26,200 COMBINED every year. Not exactly rich eh? Guess what!? I went to a university, I got a good job without blowing smoke with the richies, hell I didnt even attend one single golf game, or even wear funny pants. Now I help my parents cover their expenses. Obviously you’re not making the right decisions, or you just sit in your house all day and complain about how its “not fair”. Bullshit. Grow up.
– Bob
Never been happier about moving _away_ from IT work. Today i couldn’t be happier. I make 15K more a year, free company car and free cellphone (free usage).
I’ll never apply for an IT job again.
What do i do? I am a warehouse and logistics manager, i haul stuff, make sure people get their packages, check inventory and i work 08-16.
Might be that the image of the IT industry is bad enough. If they really regulate some of the things happening now in it, it might attract more young people (not the berserk-nerd-geek type) but regular peoples ready for a regular IT job.
Do we need unions, eh? Codesters?
I already admitted above that my US university education example above may not have been very good one, and that my main point was just to say that not everyone can just decide to become rich and succesful…
(oh, and I do have a university degree too, though I don’t come from a rich background either).
About IT jobs: You may just have to hang on to your current job if you’ve been lucky enough to get one. Finding a better job isn’t always easy, and just quitting usually not wise. Even if some stupid IT work may suck, unemployment sucks even more.
Like malkia and other have hinted above, better unions, laws, regulations and such things for IT work field might help the situation a lot (things like what they have in older industries, or in medicine, for example).
Nowadays the IT field is often almost like a jungle without proper arrangements and rules to, for example, protect the workers.
I’ve been in IT for 4 years. This article pretty much hits the nail on the head – understaffed and overworked, and managers that don’t have IT backgrounds so they just don’t “get it.” The article closes with a much underutilized management practice – MBWA.
This other article addresses another angle of the IT industry problem: http://www.madpenguin.org/cms/?m=show&id=2607 Basically, the market is crowded with people that are in it for the jobs. The real geeks that can get things done are competing with the paper certifieds, in many cases going back to school and getting degrees and certifications themselves so HR doesn’t say that you aren’t qualified for your own job.
I work in a tech support environment where some actual tech support agents cannot even build a computer to troubleshoot issues! How did they get hired? Contacts and a bachelor’s degree in finance (or something equally unrelated, like communications), that’s how.
As for outsourcing, I have to go against the crowd and say I’m for it even though I work in IT and jobs are being outsourced around me every day. Someone in India can mess up 5x and STILL be cheaper than their American counterpart. Not better, mind you – some really are good, but most are products of certification “boot camps” and have no real experience.
As India and China start to industrialize, salaries will go up to match the standard of living and then they will start to be less and less attractive from a cost standpoint.
Anyway, the reason I am all for outsourcing to India is that it will shrink up the demand for an IT market in the US, HOPEFULLY with the effect of a decrease in people entering the IT market.
Go ahead and leave the IT industry – I love computers and I’m constantly learning something new so I can stay relevant, and I moved to an area with IT jobs. No matter what happens, I’m not leaving IT. How can I? I’m the resident computer geek.
I see IT opportunities all over the place if you want to work for yourself and live the American dream (though an earlier poster said that’s just a horrible lie, or some other nonsense). Know PHP? ColdFusion? Java? There’s always contract work on Craigslist.org. Take the time to learn ActionScript. Volunteer to do work for free on the side to build a portfolio. Use the sneakernet to find work making apps in Access (or whatever) in your hometown (veterinarians, doctors, lawyers, real estate agents, etc.).
There’s work, it just takes work to get the work.
Instead of talking about how much they cost to get one you folks ought to touch on the relative uselessness of many of them and how experience and who you know often counts for more. Afterall, toilet paper is cheap enough, and you don’t need the Dean to hand it to you.
I am an Indian student here and trust me jobs in India are not there too. All the outsourcing done that you say looks good on paper gives too few jobs to India and China compared to their positions. So compared to them, you are much better off trust me on that. Atleast you are in 1st world country and people in those countries have problems getting drinking water forget about jobs. And talk about outsourcing to India, what happened when American Multi national companies came to India and destroyed all domestic companies there. Today I dont see any Indian products in India all are made by MNC’s mostly based IN US/Europe and you still complain about it. Where were you when they were losing their jobs and your wallets were getting fatter ? What about the fact that It was USA/EUROPE which wanted India to open up it’s markets and pressured it to death till they got it. Why abuse them now when everything from Iraq, Afganistan to Globalization has been forced by you and started by you. Stop being Racist and look the problem from Human point of view. I can understand what you are going through and a lot of Indians are still like you underpaid(NO PAID TOO) and also jobless. I am concerned about all this outsourcing stuff to India but were you when India was Losing it’s ? ?? ??????
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already admitted above that my US university education example above may not have been very good one, and that my main point was just to say that not everyone can just decide to become rich and succesful…
[/QUOTE]
You’ve already given up even trying it seems. You’ll never know until you try. Thoundsands of major corporations today were run out of peoples homes,garages, and basements before they moved into large commerical buildings. They couldn’t have all had rich parents. Yes anyone with half a brain, dedication, and the ability to work hard can be successful in America. Those who say it can’t be done are just too unmotivated to try. You’re happy taking your measly salary, spending it on Internet access and coming on OsNews.com bitching about how life sucks. Its not easy, but it can be done. As of 1983 7.6 million Americans were self employed*. Now you can’t tell me all 7.6 million of those people had wealthy parents that financed their business ventures.
* Bureau of Labor Statistics – 1984
– Bob
The sad thing is back in the mid-late 90’s investors went crazy about the internet. All of the people that had a idea of turning profit on a pet rock of an idea. This has made investors question if it profitable or even a go idea to invest in anything internet related. Let alone all of the investors that lost everything. When the bubble burst so many people were without a job with one day no notice. Now only institutions like hospitals, insurance, etc. may hire. I was working as a contractor at Intel in 2000. I got sick the next day I was without a job. I had 17 years experience. I made choices that covered myself, which I am totally greatful for.
If you were a farmer, you would be the one harrassing your geek cousin about some trivial computer stuff 🙂
Before reading the article, I thought I was the only sysadmin who contemplated resignation as a way out of a boring job. I have three main complaints :
a) my boss believes a computer is some kind of magic box that is mentally activated. Therefore, if I can’t prevent an accident from happening (for instance : the janitor pulled all the plugs out while cleaning the server room the night before), it’s the proof I’m not apt to the task and don’t deserve a raise.
b) I rarely get the funds necessary to buy new stuff. I’m supposed to find printers, networking cards, hard disks, etc. in my garage.
c) my colleagues expect me to know everything about every software that they use. It doesn’t matter if they were already told that my job was not to “show them how photoshop or excel works”.
@Anmol Misra
Yeah, very good points. I agree with you. It is high time that some developing third world countries start to have some taste of economic success too besides of the former colonial super powers only. Outsourcing is just a result of the world economic pendulum starting to swing from the rich countries to the other side of the world more. It is a natural thing.
The problems in the west are elsewhere than what India or some other countries do. The west is still quite rich enough to take care of its citizens, offer enough jobs to most and good enough work conditions etc. if there’s just enough political will.
The west is still quite rich enough to take care of its citizens, offer enough jobs to most and good enough work conditions etc. if there’s just enough political will.
Exactly. Money isn’t the real problem, it’s the mindset of not only politicians but the entire western culture.
If there isn’t enough money, you better start looking at where the money is going and how it’s spent. Some people can manage to do more with a thousand dollars than what others can do with millions.
Hopefully the situation will manage to wake some poeple up and make them change their lifestyle for the better.
Sure it’s hard when you loose your job because the company is outsourcing to asia. But then again, is it that kind of society we want to work in, where people get treated like nothing more than numbers on a paper?
I’m sure we’ll manage to make something better out of all this.
Money isn’t a law of nature. It’s something we have made up and the economical system is something we can change.
Sure call me naive. I think it’s possible. Not saying it’s going to happend.
is that why people start being racist in these problems ? what is fault of asians in this ? Should we hate you for taking all our jobs earlier ? should we hate you for shutting all domestic industries ? Instead we moved on and opened other frontiers to live. I think you should do that too. Atleast you get basic things here in west and govt ccan take car eof you if they want to.
No really, there’s only one thing to blame: Greed.
You’ve already given up even trying it seems. You’ll never know until you try.
Heh. Many thanks for your encouragament, but I haven’t given up on anything in my life
I was not talking about personal things but politics in general on a much higher scale than what my/your personal life may be.
anyone with half a brain, dedication, and the ability to work hard can be successful in America.
Many sure can but not all equally well. (Also you could become severly ill, for example). Those who cannot make it but still want to become part of the shiny American dream of becoming rich may end up as criminals, for example. (Did you know that in Washington DC there are more murders per capita than in any other city of the world? Info I recently read from a book, I don’t know how accurate the info is though.)
Of course it is just great that many can become rich though originally poor. I certainly have nothing against that. Also many people seem to be very happy with the many work opportunities they have in the USA. But there’s no denying that many people are also less lucky, can be very unhappy, stressed, poor etc. Why? Just because they are loosers? Hard words…
I just find The American style politics and business life a bit too hard (though I greatly appreciate the American traditions of especially small businesses and freedom). I would want to see the world ruled by some more democratic and softer political powers and ideas than the big US/EU/Japanese corporate powers (which is nowadays often the case).
IT being one of the most critical and important sectors of the world economy it is very important for the world at large what goes on it the IT sector.
Those who cannot make it but still want to become part of the shiny American dream of becoming rich may end up as criminals
I’m not sure that getting rich is all its cracked up to be. Every day, I work around alot of miserable people who say “I wish I could win the lottery”, but I suspect there are a lot of miserable rich people as well. If you can’t be happy with what you have, I’m not really sure that $40 million is going to do anything to help you.
I’m not sure that getting rich is all its cracked up to be.
Exactly.
But the forever continuing quest for more and more riches (whether by winning in lottery or getting rich in IT business etc.), is like the leading religion and at least the leading ideology in the western world – and maybe especially in the corporate IT world.
If I may, I think I have a more informed perspective than many here, in that I’m European (Irish), and have worked all over Europe (1991 – 1998 spent in The Netherlands, Germany and (boo hiss) France (by far the most pleasant country I’ve lived in — not the richest, but the quality of life was the best). I’ve now lived in the midwest of the USA for six years. The choices are clear; accept US-style freewheeling capitalism (la modele Anglo-Saxon, to quote the French) or capitalism tempered by social concerns and the attendant regulation (continental Europe). Ireland (and the UK, as far as I can see, but I’ve never lived there) have chosen a sort of middle ground. The benefits of the latter – the market rules, you are paid according to demand. The benefits of the continental European model — you are less well paid, but the social net is still relatively generous. So what? Where is the news in this? Choose one or the other and live with it — make it work, believe in it. But for Christ’s sake, stop this endless bloody whining about mega-global-capitalism, about “socialism”, about Indian “stealing jobs”, about your cranky control freak boss. I started with an a national certificate in computing (associates degree to our american readers) in 1988, when unemployment was 18% in Ireland, living standards were some of the lowest in Europe, our social welfare system was pathetic. What did I do? Work my backside off, move where the money was (Germany, and ultimately the US, soon back to Ireland). Stop whining. I’ve NEVER been unemployed, despite numerous technology shifts (RPG II to Visual RPG to VB to client/server to Java to J2EE). IT is a tough field, you have to keep learning. But the money is great, compared to what most people make. Don’t like it? Move fields. Vote for a different politican. But above all, stop the endless bitching. Metic — you love Finland and it’s system? Then by all means, stay there. Anmol — unhappy with India? Vote for a different political party, clean up the corruption. Americans — sad to see IT jobs offshored? Stop buying foreign products and throw the protectionist barriers back up — more than most countries, globalisation is your baby, pity it turned out to be an ingrate.
Yep, less than a month ago I was laid off of work (I was there just over four years). It was not due to my performance, but lack of funds and other issues. The president of the company said he’d give me a good reference.
Anyone know of a Web Developer (.NET, ASP, PHP) position in Indiana? Or a C/C++ position? –sorry if this is out of line to ask, but couldn’t hurt.
Morale is in the pits at the place I worked. I heard even more layoffs have come to pass and I feel sorry for those let go.
I’ve been applying for jobs mainly on online career sites. I know it will take a little while to find something I like to do. I think the hardest part of being unemployed is waiting for an e-mail or phone call about a position I applied for.
So, what are you whining and bitching about? Why couldn’t we use our rights of free speech and discuss things like this here, even criticise some things like politics etc. if we see a need for that? Why should everyone just stare to their own belly only, concentrate on gaining more wealth for themselves only? If that’s what your life is all about only, why do you even bother to take part in this discussion at all then?
What’s wrong with trying to discuss and influence things, and perhaps even try to make the world like its work conditions a bit better – for everyone? It is not just bitching and whining, it’s called democracy, human rights & ethics.
>Why couldn’t we use our rights of free speech and discuss things like this >here, even criticise some things like politics etc. if we see a need for that?
And yet you criticise me for doing the same? That’s interesting. What I am tired of is facile “comparisons” of USA vs. EU vs. whatever. It usually degenerates into a pissing contest. My point was that you’d be better served by promoting the positives of your ideas rather than carping about the negatives of others (ill-informed as they are). To state that only wealthy Americans attend college is ignorant at best, propaganda at worst. (Referring to others) To state that France is “socialist” is at best facile, at worst idiotic. That’s what I was tired of — not that you and others exercise your right to free speech, but that you and others talk such nonsense.
Oh, BTW — osnews.org isn’t democracy, it’s a website. Free speech, sure. But leaping to use words like “free speech” to define this exchange? Now, aren’t you doing exactly what you accuse Americans of doing? I call “hypocrite”.
I understand that you are angry with those companies. But why would you want to attack India? They want the jobs just as much as you do, and when they are offered them they’ll take them. Please don’t blame them, they just want to work, like you do.
The main problem is with the companies who do anything to earn more money, like outsourcing to asia for example. They don’t care about you, they care about the dollars.
If you want to be useful, attack wall street or something.
Besides, you can always move to india and get your job back
You want to some depressing story.
My salary went down from 120k to 70k (new job)……
My stock options are junk, since the old company went belly up……..
My work hours went from 65hr/week to 80hr/week. Now, I write custom programs during the weekend to earn extra cash…………
My job title changed from software engineer to programmer/admin/technical support/”my windows is slow, can you fix my computer?”………….
We are a two-man show maintain 60 retail stores.
very depressing.
>The Bush administration changed how unemployment was >calculated a few years ago. It immediately dropped
>the unemployment level.
In addition the most of the new jobs are on the public dole which shouldn’t count as they aren’t true growth. And much of the other jobs are service jobs don’t pay shit for salary or benifits. Yes, bless you bush.
What happened with solidarity and syndicate organizations? Seems like we must reinvent the wheel. Workers in IT industry have always thought they are something special, but now it seems the situation is going in the direction of classic industry. So wake up. Global syndicates are the answer to globalisation. But of course you can’t expect an Indian worker to go to the street for you in Europe in America, if you don’t even care about person who sits near you.
I am 19, underpaid and have a terrible, insecure boss who’s an ex-pat from north korea and has the moral-fiber of a child rapist. Nuff said?
I’m not paid a high wage, but I also don’t work very hard, so it’s fair. I don’t work long hours, just a 40 hr week. I have plenty of money because my parents taught me to save more than I spend.
The salaries in America used to be very high, but people were spending every penny, and also going into dept with their credit cards and expensive car payments.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that you don’t need to earn a high wage, in order to make progress, if your family has carved the way. People starting out with only a shirt on their back, have it tough, and it looks like it’s only going to get tougher with all of the centralization happening.
Now a days children do not leave the house until they are close to 30 years old due to the high cost of University and housing and everything in general. That’s what the research is saying. Society is changing, people have bigger houses, more cars and less children.
If you look at a country like China however, they have such a huge population, how do they survive? What is happening is that Americans are experiencing a lower standard of living, and Americans work harder (longer hours) than any country in the world, and Americans buy more stuff than anyone because they are the larges consumer market.
I wouldn’t just look at wages in order to make progress, because there are better ways plan and to get ahead. Nobody is going to tell you how.
Regarding millionaires, I think that they do live quite well, but you would be surprised by how cheap they are.
If feels better to save money, to barter for a deal, to pick up second hand, and that’s what millionaires do.
A millionaire might live in a nice house and drive a decent viechle, but they are very stingy with their money, they do not spend money like crazy, only people who have high salaries and end up poor are the ones that spend all their money. A millionaire hates to spend money! I know several millionaires, and they are all the same.
As a systemic person, i should say that there’s no “free” freedom.
Indians call it Karma (and they believe that you pay in another life too, but that’s not my point).
We, “northern” IT people, had our great glory days, with high salaries, happy job, etc…
For the balance to be, we pay now by underpaid boring job.
The main question is more “could we make it enjoyable or not ?”. IT is no more a job heaven.
Shouldn’t all the open source projects be booming with all these unemployed techies sitting around with nothing better to do? Oh, you want to make a living? – that’s so passe – get out of the 90’s man!
http://www.globalrichlist.com/
Warning: this is a humbling experience!!
Man I like the people whining about how they made 100+k per year and now they make less than that and how they have to take a second job. As mentioned earlier I work in the IT field. How much do I make? Around 37k. That’s right, 37, and I survive well enough. It is called LIVING WITHIN YOUR MEANS. Manage and budget your life, jeez.
The other thing is that depending on your job you might either have to move in order to get the job you want, or learn something new. My father was a Greek immigrant. He left home when he was 13. He had MANY jobs including brick layer, carpenter, and book seller in the beggining, EDUCATED HIMSELF became the primary engineer on merchant ships, saw the world, FURTHER EDUCATED HIMSELF, became an auto mechanic. He is now in his fifties and he is STILL educating himself, always learning something new. Who knows when he “retires” he might find something else he wants to do.
Moral? YOu always need to improve yourself and manage your situation. Just because once you made over 100K does not mean that you will always make over 100k.
http://www.globalrichlist.com/
That’s an enlightning experience indeed. I recommend that everyone examines how their supposedly poor salary level rates in the global scale (granted that also living costs are usually much higher in the rich countries, though).
With an annual salary like 40 000 eoros per year you would clearly be among the the 1% richest people in the world. Maybe it could be time for some to think about some other more important things too than just gaining more and more money?
I also agree with mini-me’s suggestions above regarding money and education.
The money and education are important factors… that being said, you also have to consider the economic factors and that includes tax rates…
In Canada, the taxes are heavy. So if you take that 40000 euros and change it 40k CA dollars you’ll wind up somewhere around $2200-$2400 for take home. It’s not much to get everything done with…
Wow. Now I feel better. Seriously.
I make 28k a year in IT Education for a family of five. We are doing well since we live very much within our means. Granted, fuel costs, daycare, house payments, private health insurance, car insurance, house insurance, utilities, clothing and food are raping my pocket book. I would love to go off the grid and purchase a Toyota Prius or another hybrid vehicle.
I started out with a GED then went to university after the military. You can improve as long as you don’t get laid off, downsized, or outsourced.
and don’t forget the PHBs handing out large signing bonuses and 6 figure salaries to each other for, essentially, doing nothing important for companies.
Anyone here ever get a signing bonus for a technical position?
@Ray O’Leary
Yeah, you did make some good points and comments. I didn’t mean to sound so critical to you personally… I suppose I was just starting to feel tired and frustrated too much (working at night time (4 AM) etc.)…
OK, I’ve been in IT since the mid 80’s. Working for my current employer for 10 years. Making decent coin. And the job absolutely sucks. Seriously. Clueless manager. Users that dont know how to do thier job, much less use the computer.
Here’s the kicker….I started a consulting company. I have 2 jobs. The company I work for is not pro-active at all. Management does not allow us to work on things to make it better, only to fix things that explode. That means that during the day, I have a lot of free time that I used to spend on fark, slashdot, reading etc. Now, most of the time I can get ongoing development for my consultancy done during my “day job” hours. I’ve essentially doubled my salary and only added miniscule amounts of “off hours” work to meet clients etc.
Immoral? If you are the company that pays my salary and insurance…..maybe. But when was the last time your company did you a favor? I see mine screwing people left right and center. Pay back is a b*tch.
I get paid squat. I am the only IT person at my location with 85 PC’s ranging from 95 to XP. I am the network admin, the desktop suppport guy, the software guy, the hardware guy and the developer too. My company put me on this contract with out any instruction so I had to figure it all out on my own. Not a big deal but it took a while. But now they won’t send me to classes for the education that I need to make this place run as it should. So I spend most of my day reading message boards and books to teach myself what I need to know. I figured either way they were going to pay me to learn, wether they sent me to a class or by me putting off work here so I can read.
I got to work at 9am today and haven’t done a damn thing but read all morning. I consider it even now.
On a side note, In my search for a new job I’m seeing this companies wanting dev’s with 13 (languages , db etc..) or more skills required and 5 years+ experience and they want to pay them 50-60k a year and they wonder why that job posting has gone unanswered.
I have the same 5 dollars in my pocket that I’ve had for the past 2 weeks because almost all of my income goes to bills (house , car, food, necessary expenses) and required items for my son (diapers etc.) So I sucked it up and enrolled in school again to get that piece of paper that says I can program.
Those of you in the same spot, I encourage you to start your own business. It costs about 500.00 to set up and I’m sure most of you have the equipmemnt necessary to develop software (if that’s what you do). I was able to obtain 2 free copies of vs.net 2003 by attending webcasts offered by MS and have now delved into ASP.NET as a result.
My point is that there is always a way to get ahead on the cheap. Just don’t count on building web-sites as a source of income.
After spending 1 year, 1 month, 1 week and two days unemployed (not that I was counting), during which I sent countless CVs out there and went through a surprisingly low number of interviews, I ended up getting a 40 WORKING DAY junior work CONTRACT and then an ex-colleague of mine got me where I am right now. Problem is, I am still “temporary help” after two years, my pay is still not to what it used to be 3.5 years ago (I had to take a significant pay cut when I came on board) and I have to deal with people far less experienced than me who treat me like a junior because I am still going from term to term while they are permanent. The cherry on top of the sundae (to use an expression) is that in that time I saw an inexperienced young snot who knew absolutely nothing make it to permanent status while I am still “temporary” despite 18+ years of experience in this field. I guess it pays more to be a slick brown-noser than to know what you are doing.
So I should be depressed, angered and everything else. I still can’t make plans because I still don’t know if I will be employed in 2 months. I still have to think short-term and keep on looking around — but there are no real jobs out there. And when there are any, the positions are already wired for an incumbent. This is not a living. I had a life and dreams before, and I want them back!
Still, despite all of my bitching, at least I get a paycheque every two weeks. At least I can pay rent and put some food in my fridge. Like I said to a colleague who is in a similar predicament than me, what we have is better than to get to know the new wave of infomercials… or being thrown on the street for unpaid rent or mortgage. Things are bad (hint: when contract work is now measured in WORKING DAYS instead of MONTHS or YEAR!), but they could be worse.
I just hope things will eventually improve.
oodoo Child, you’re what’s known as a parasitic entrereneur, and it’s a vocation with a long a glorious history. There’s a section in Po Bronson’s book The Nudist on the Late Shift about when he had a terrible job and decided to start and run his own business completely during business hours of his crappy job.
It’s a morally questionable practice, sure, but speaking from experience in the business world, I know that there are many, many people who spend less than 20% of their office workday doing productive work as it is. (OSNews’ traffic is twice as high on weekdays as on weekends, for example) You might as well be contributing to the economy and building a new business while you’re slacking off, I guess.
Since 1995 I’ve never had less than two businesses running simultaneously. If you let yourself languish at the pace of your ossified corporate employer, you’ll lose your soul.
I was reading a book on Sociology, and one of the chapters talked about wealth distribution in Canada and the USA.
There has been a trend ever since WWII in which the rich are getting richer and the poor are losing ground. This will eventually become a big problem, and there has been a lot of talk in the USA about the fall of the middle class. I don’t think that big business helps to solve this problem, because big business is centralized, so they accelerate the inequality. There is some research available on the Internet, or check out a modern sociology text, see for yourself. I’m well aware of the differences between the rich and the poor in Canada, the top 20% and the rest, for example the top 50% own 96% of the wealth, so just off the top, half of Canada is in poverty, and only help up by the social net. The American and Canadian statistics show very much the same picture and outlook.
Actually here is the link to the Canadian wealth situation < http://www.policyalternatives.ca/publications/ragsandrichessummary…. >.
There has been a trend ever since WWII in which the rich are getting richer and the poor are losing ground.
It’s worth pointing out that this is a very specific _relative_ measure talking about the “gap” between “rich” and “poor” (it’s getting bigger). “Poor” people today are far “richer” than they’ve ever been before – it’s just the “rich” are getting “richer” faster.
I agree it’s a bad thing, but it’s worth keeping in perspective a fairly heft chunk of the “poor” in developed countries own TVs, cars, live in houses and rarely go hungry. They’re only really “poor” because the middle class neighbours have bigger TVs, cars, houses, etc.
“Living in poverty” doesn’t mean you can’t afford to have pay TV, go on holidays or buy new clothes every other month, it means you sleep in a cardboard box and have to scrounge food out of rubbish bins to avoid starving.
This will eventually become a big problem, and there has been a lot of talk in the USA about the fall of the middle class.
The middle class always bear the brunt (relatively speaking, they’re the “worst off”). They make too much to receive goverment assistance, but still not enough to forget about money worries altogether.
I don’t think that big business helps to solve this problem, because big business is centralized, so they accelerate the inequality.
It’s got nothing to do with centralisation. It’s the “increase profits at all costs” philosophy of big business.
There is some research available on the Internet, or check out a modern sociology text, see for yourself. I’m well aware of the differences between the rich and the poor in Canada, the top 20% and the rest, for example the top 50% own 96% of the wealth, so just off the top, half of Canada is in poverty, and only help up by the social net.
Um, that’s a _very_ weird way of figuring out who is dependent on the “social net”. I’d go so far as to say “completely wrong”, but maybe you’re talking about a different thing than I think you are.
The American and Canadian statistics show very much the same picture and outlook.
I imagine you’ll find those statistics mirrored in nearly all developed societies. Indeed, I’d predict (without actually bothering to do any research) that those statistics indicate the most “equal” societies on earth – and that traditionally a far greater proportion of society’s wealth has been concentrated into the hands of a much smaller proportion of the people. Think back to the days of Kings and peasants, for example, or Communism, or your typical dictatorship.
It’s also worth pointing out that the “rich” pay far, far more than their “fair share” in taxes, etc. About 20% of the tax base account for about 80% of taxation revenue. This is a reasonably consistent share as well, whether you’re talking about low-tax countries like the US or high-tax countries like Australia.
I blame incompetant management for having lost my job, I only want to work now either for gov. , a uni. or personal/friend’s business, never again for a big business.
I blame incompetant management for having lost my job, I only want to work now either for gov. , a uni. or personal/friend’s business, never again for a big business.
I can assure you from personal experience (albeit in Australia) that University and Government have incompetent management. Even more so, IMHO, since there’s usually fewer performance-based incentives in Government or Government-by-proxy organisations like Universities (although this works both ways – good job security because it’s nearly impossible to get fired).
From what I’ve heard working for friends can be pretty bad as well. My preferred workplace is medium size (~200ish employees) from a working environment perspective. However, there are some advantages to large environments like cooler, biger, more expensive toys^H^H^H^Hsystems.
I’m going back to industrial plumbing. It pays better, and has actual job security.