“Show us the architecture of .NET on the whiteboard,” is what Jason Zander was asked and that started out an interesting discussion of what .NET is.That led into a discussion of .NET’s garbage collector and determinalistic finalization that developers will find interesting (Charles Torre, developer on Channel 9, was asking the questions). It ends up with a discussion of “secrets of the CLR.” This is the final piece of the tour of the CLR team.
Elsewhere, Julie Lerman talks about her recent experiences with the Base Class Library 2.0, Tablet PC development, and ADO.NET 2.0. She also talks about her professional life before software development, which may come as a bit of a shock.
Bored minds want to know, but don’t want to download any files.
http://weblogs.asp.net/jlerman/articles/4931.aspx
I had to plough through one too many dotnet sites (like ‘dotnet rocks!’, ick) for that one. Must go wash hands now.
Yeap, had a look. Great, another person who thinks because he/she can use a database and VB, it instantly makes him/her a programmer. Hell, I can use a DB, namely 4D and Paradox, but it isn’t nothing to write home about.
I am sure that assembler/fortran guy in the corner says the same about you C/C++ guys.
LOL 🙂 true, but then again, I’m a C/COBOL/BASIC/AMOS developer, so I’ve had a hand in all of it 😉
Calling a VB programmer a programmer is the equivilant of calling a HTML person a programmer 😉
Btw, I wasn’t being serious in regards to what constitutes a programmer, however, it does annoy me when someone who has used VB some how self appoints him or herself as some sort of programming guru.
The person mentioned in the article, quite frankly, has had *VERY* little experience in regards to programming; heck, I remember learning to programme at the age of 13, back when using an Amiga 500, using Amiga BASIC, however, when someone has used a database or too then picks up VB, they should be the last one I would be asking in relation to architecture let alone giving their opinion whether something “rocks”; if they want to really wow me, how about getting a C++/C programmer or even a Java programmer giving an over view as to *why* .NET “rocks” to them?
Oh, and it it me too much to ask for Microsoft to provide a link to the video, not all of us actually run Windows, hence, unable to have access to the film which is compressed into exe format.
Explain to me slowly again *why* you picked 0xBEEFCACE
for the Magic ?
I think it’s plug , but I think my Architecture is better
http://t3.dotgnu.info/slides/pnet/mgp00007.html …
Calling a VB programmer a programmer is the equivilant of calling a HTML person a programmer 😉
Btw, I wasn’t being serious in regards to what constitutes a programmer, however, it does annoy me when someone who has used VB some how self appoints him or herself as some sort of programming guru.
As much as I hate VB, I must say there are some pretty talented VB programmers in the world, with some very nice apps. So you may think you are a programming god, but think again my uneducated friend. There are needs for all types of programmers (VB, etc) and some of them are pretty smart.
>Calling a VB programmer a programmer is the equivilant of >calling a HTML person a programmer 😉
I’m curious what is in your words is the definition of a programmer?
>> I’m curious what is in your words is the definition of a programmer?
– Picking VB6 over Java makes you a non-programmer.
– Some, VB programmers are very good.
– The rest aren’t programmers if:
– They won’t write classes
– Only code Public Properties, ( no Getter/Setter methods )
– Refuse to learn Exception Handling
pretty much makes you a Non-Programmer.
Arrogant, self-aggrandizing low-level programmers who scoff at the use of anything *other* than the most complicated solution have no idea how the real world looks at software development.
I am a programmer though I’ve never created a punch card and have no clue how to write an application in Fortran or Cobol. I am also *not* a VB programmer but do not look down upon those who use VB to create software.
Software development is an art, this we can all agree on. It is a wonderful outlet of creativity and critical thinking and is the most enjoyable work for someone who is fortunate enough to appreciate it AND make a living from it.
However, software is also a way to make money. Programming is a tool to earn a living and in the “real world”, writing code is business. Everyone else is just hobbyist, which is fine, but hobbies *rarely* help one bring home the bacon.
In order to write code for a living, most programmers must be highly productive. A programmer is responsible for writing high-quality, bug-free (ha!?), fast, scalable applications that serve the purpose (directly/indirectly) of making money.
I can hear the Open Source crowd churning now…and before you react emotionally and irrationally, realize that all of the great open source projects out there today subsist because somehow, they are making money and have many millions (or billions) of dollars in commercial investments, for the purpose of making money…period.
Anyhow, if high-quality, USEFUL code can be created in a language/technology that makes the programmer highly-productive than there is absolutely no reason to compel that programmer to use something considerably more complicated to solve a problem and in my opinion, this attitude is extremely ignorant and elitist.
VB is a programming language and those who use it are VB programmers. VB programming concepts and constructs are generally no different than any other programming language and a VB programmer has to solve complicated problems, expressed in code, just like any other programmer.
Personally, I find VB hideous, and avoid it like the plague because I find it to be *less* productive than C-like languages…however that is just my opinion. My opinion doesn’t make VB any less valuable, either does anyone else’s.
There are plenty of high-quality VB applications out there and I use some of them to make *me* more productive.
To this individual who stated that “calling a VB programmer a programmer is like calling an HTML developer a programmer” obviously doesn’t know the first thing about either VB or HTML, or he couldn’t have possibly made such a blatantly ignorant comment.
Can’t we all just get agree to disagree on our preferred languages and technologies? Must elitists, who obviously feel threatened by productivity, keep everyone in the dark and avoid advances in programming methods and technologies?
There, I feel better now. I’ll quit w/ the social commentary and go away, yay!
…but what else should i expect. First of all, one the reasons that Microsoft is so successful is because of VB. HTML is not a programming language because the essence of a “real” programming language is iteration, selection, and sequence. I don’t think you can “if (blah) blah(); else blah2();” in HTML. I don’t think you can do loops, but I don’t know much HTML, so maybe I’m wrong. So VB is a “real” language.
Now I have VS.NET 2003, but I’ve never opened up a VB.NET project to see what it’s all about (or VB6 back in the day), but I know a very smart hardware/embedded engineer that swears by it for quick-n-dirty front-end apps. So it has it’s purpose. If you’re coming from a C++ background like me, then you’ll just use C# anyway.
It seems that it’s always Java programmers that are poo-pooing VB programmers for one reason or another. That’s pretty funny, because I remember a lot of C++ programmers saying the same thing about Java programmers even to this day. So watch where you hurl the mud.
>>> I’m curious what is in your words is the definition of a >programmer?
>- Picking VB6 over Java makes you a non-programmer.
>- Some, VB programmers are very good.
>- The rest aren’t programmers if:
>- They won’t write classes
>- Only code Public Properties, ( no Getter/Setter methods )
>- Refuse to learn Exception Handling
>pretty much makes you a Non-Programmer.
Your arrogance sucks. VB.NET programmers can’t get anywhere *without* writing classes, properites, using structured exception handling, using polymorphism and so on …
What also sucks : Even many C# guys are as arrogant as you are – but these dumbasses don’t realize that in the end – it’s all the same : IL code, use of the CLR and BCL, same concepts, same semantics.
By the way, what *really* makes you a non-programmer : Being intolerant and arrogant – because one thing I learned is that a programmer – first of all – must be able to work in a team.
If he can’t do this because he suffers from arrogance and intolerance – he’s a non-programmer.
if they want to really wow me, how about getting a C++/C programmer or even a Java programmer giving an over view as to *why* .NET “rocks” to them?
Well, one reason that C/C++ programmers might like .NET over something like the JVM is that .NET and it’s derivatives are able to host C/C++ languages unlike the Java runtime. The CLR knows about pointers, the JVM doesn’t. As of right now, Microsoft is the only one (that I know of) that has a C++ to MSIL(Microsoft Intermediate Language) compiler, but dotGNU does have a straight C to IL compiler, and I think someone affiliated with Mono is working with a C++ compiler that can generate WHIRL intermediate code (and then they massage that down to MSIL)…or something.
There are papers that deal with the differences between the .NET and Java runtimes (google). Supposedly MSIL is better suited to a wider range of languages than Java. Microsoft has had years to study Java and figure out its deficiences.
The guy obviously comes from a Java background – the whole “getters” and “setters” gives him away. It’s always these Java guys that seem to have inferiority complexes for one reason or another and feel the need to bash another language to make themselves feel better.
When people finally realise that software (and programming languages) are just tools, then the world (and certain websites)will be a better place.
It is ridiculous to get into philosophical arguments about why C is *better* than VB. In certain contexts, each is better than the other.
A real programmer recognises this, shuts up about it, and uses the language/OS/methodology that best solves or fits the problem at hand.
As you were.
For stating the obvious.
– NO, the problem with writing Public Properties vs. Getter/Setter methods is:
– You let Anything into your class, with No validation.
– With no validation you can skip that pesky Exception handling
– When validation eventually becomes required of the data entering a class module, you have to do a Re-Write of the class and all classes that use those public properties.
>- NO, the problem with writing Public Properties vs. >Getter/Setter methods is:
>- You let Anything into your class, with No validation.
>- With no validation you can skip that pesky Exception >handling
>- When validation eventually becomes required of the data >entering a class module, you have to do a Re-Write of the >class and all classes that use those public properties.
Have you *EVER* seen a VBA or VB6 or VB.NET property ?
You’ve got no idea of what you’re talking about …
<script runat=”server”>
4: Class Clock
5: public Second as integer
6: public Minute as integer
7: public Hour as integer
8:
9: sub SetTime(intSec as integer, intMin as integer, _
10: intHour as integer)
11: Second = intSec
12: Minute = intMin
13: Hour = intHour
14: end sub
15: End Class
16:
17: sub Page_Load(Sender as object, e as EventArgs)
18: dim objClock as new Clock
19:
20: objClock.Second = 60
21:
22: end sub
23:
24: </script>
Based on VB6:
– NO, the problem with writing Public Properties vs. Getter/Setter methods is:
– You let Anything into your class, with No validation.
– which is perfectly OK for some private classes, used in role of local fast accessible data structures;
– With no validation you can skip that pesky Exception handling
– see previous;
– When validation eventually becomes required of the data entering a class module, you have to do a Re-Write of the class and all classes that use those public properties.
– wrong. You don’t need to rewrite any dependant classes and you have to just replace Public XXXX with two or three methods, no other code changes needed.
Of course, initial design should minimize need for such things (replacing public properties with get/let methods).
Listen up you idiots,
.NET is clearly the ultimate programming language.
For example, the Microsoft logo is much, much more bold than the logo of any competing company.
Further more, Chewbacca was a wookie who lived on endor. A wookie who lived with a bunch of ewoks.
That does not make sense. Therefore, you must use C#.
VBA/VB6:
—-Classmodule TestClass———-
Private m_strBlabla As String
Public Property Get Blabla() As String
Blabla = m_strBlabla
End Property
Public Property Let Blabla(Value As String)
m_strBlabla = Value
End Property
—-Classmodule TestClass———-
Private Sub DoTest()
Dim objTest As New TestClass
objTest.Blabla = “blablabla VB6/VBA DOESNT HAVE PROPERTIES blablabla”
Debug.Print objTest.Blabla
End Sub
========================================================
VB.NET :
Public Class TestClass
Private m_strBlabla As String
Public Property Blabla() As String
Get
Return m_strBlabla
End Get
Set(ByVal Value As String)
m_strBlabla = Value
End Set
End Property
Public Shared Sub DoTest()
Dim objTest As New TestClass
objTest.Blabla = “blablabla VB6/VBA DOESNT HAVE PROPERTIES blablabla”
Debug.WriteLine(objTest.Blabla)
End Sub
Please tell me you don’t actually write code like that for a living, or were you just trying to make a point as to what not to do?
You’re a real programmer if you understand the intricacies of memory management and garbage collection in the CLR (which, as I’ve noticed, nobody here is game to discuss, even though it’s half the article). They’re not all technical, either… some of these problems are social, which is why all programmers should be taking note!
From what I’ve heard, Microsoft have been co-opting some of the brightest Java VM minds in the business (both academic and commercial worlds) to help put the CLR on the cutting edge. They’re serious about this.
You guys have on idea what is the .NET!!!!
Compare VB6 and VB.NET ?
————————> C and C++ …
————> Access and SQL Server …