Check two reviews of SuSE Linux 9.2: one at MadPenguin and one at LinuxGazette.
Two Reviews of SUSE Linux 9.2
About The Author
Eugenia Loli
Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker.
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Using it right now, worth every penny.
Best distro ever.
You forgot the Comic Store Guy cadence:
“Best… Distro… Ever.”
When I tried 9.1, it did not had support for ACPI out of the box. It did not sleep when I tried to get it to sleep!. Is that functionality there in 9.2 ? Is it available for FTP Install ? Links ? Is Novell Linux Desktop available for FTP Install ?
“? Is it available for FTP Install ? Links ? Is Novell Linux Desktop available for FTP Install ?”
No.
Neither are available for FTP isntall. SUSE 9.2 will be released probably within a month for FTP install and Novell Linux Desktop is not freely redistributable. You can download a 30 day demo for NLD…but you cannot get security updates after 30 days.
NLD is not appropriate for home users. GCC and stuff like that is excluded as it is not normally used by secretaries 😛
Out of all the RPM based distributions I’ve tested I enjoy SuSE Linux Professional over all. My only real complaint is that Novell since acquiring SuSE Linux AG has yet to resolve the issue regarding not having licensed codecs in SuSE Linux. I agree with the author of Mad Penguin in that it would be better for Novell to include the additional cost of having licensed codecs in SuSE Linux Professional. That way consumers can have a fully functional desktop solution and not one that is intentional crippled by Novell. MS has their Windows Media codec, Apple has their Quicktime codec and Novell basically has none. Sorry but including Real Player may be okay for a few users but the majority of consumers use either Windows Media or Quicktime to play video. So if Novell is going to continue to cripple things like media players they may find consumers less likely to purchase their software.
“Apple has their Quicktime codec and Novell basically has none. Sorry but including Real Player may be okay for a few users but the majority of consumers use either Windows Media or Quicktime to play video. So if Novell is going to continue to cripple things like media players they may find consumers less likely to purchase their software.
”
huh. how is including real player any different from what MS and apple does. they dont play all the codecs out of the box either…
xine,kaffeine,mplayer,kplayer,totem,…
There is also kmplayer. I like it’s lean no-nonsense approach.
the xine engine has gotten better lately and I’m no longer sure which engine is best.
I agree with the MadPenguin author that Novell should include movie and dvd playing out of the box. I’m not sure what’s holding them back. AFAIK, decoding is license free whereas encoding requires a fee for the spec. But it can’t be that much and could be included in the price of the distro. And the engine code could be changed to support the region protection (however outrageous that is).
That’s a bit unfair about the media players – MS don’t bundle Quicktime with Windows. Apple don’t bundle WMP with OSX. Why should Novell be expected to provide everything?
Frankly it’s good Novell show a bit of support for Real who have provided a Linux client (even if I can’t stand the software). I don’t see any need to pander to the others; Quicktime’s a horrible piece of software in Windows and WMP’s not my favourite either.
I have noticed that most Windows users seem to manage to watch Quicktime videos somehow; presumably if they can manage it the SuSE users will too?
Suse is finally the first distro that runs well on my machine. Sill a few issues but a vast improvement.
RE: Anonymous (IP: 61.95.184.—)
“how is including real player any different from what MS and apple does. they don’t play all the codecs out of the box either…”
Actually both Windows Media Player and Quicktime play their respective codecs. Quicktime is provided by Apple for use on OSX and Windows which is why most sites for movie trailers, etc provide video ported to “.mov”. When I export video I typically choose the file format extension to be for Quicktime as this is offered on both OS so there is a better chance of the viewer being able to watch my video. Now the difference with Xine on SuSE Linux is that the user is left with a crippled player (thanks to Novell) that isn’t capable of playing hardly anything. Do a default installation of SuSE Linux then try watching a movie trailer provided online and you’ll notice you can’t. You’ll get errors such as missing plug-in, etc. You also can’t simply install the missing codecs either. Since Novell crippled Xine and it’s gui front-end (Totem/Kaffeine) the user’s only option is to uninstall Xine, etc and then install the missing codecs, then install an uncrippled version of Xine plus it’s gui front-end. To me that’s not the idea of a fully functional desktop. If Novell doesn’t want to pay MS and Apple to get licensed codecs then surely they can at least help the consumer by not crippling Xine and the gui front-end. Then the only thing missing would be to install the codecs you want.
RE: Archangel
“That’s a bit unfair about the media players – MS don’t bundle Quicktime with Windows. Apple don’t bundle WMP with OSX. Why should Novell be expected to provide everything?”
Right now they are providing absolutely zero when it comes to working video support. It’s not unfair when consumers read the product info either on Novell’s site or on the box stipulating that it comes with a video player. Actually it could be construed as false advertising because consumers are under the impression they are getting a fully functional desktop when in reality Novell has crippled the media player.
“Frankly it’s good Novell show a bit of support for Real who have provided a Linux client (even if I can’t stand the software). I don’t see any need to pander to the others; Quicktime’s a horrible piece of software in Windows and WMP’s not my favorite either.”
I’m glad that Novell includes Real Networks player and Helix as an optional player for consumers but frankly Real Media is less used globally in the market than Windows Media and Quicktime. You may consider WMP and the Quicktime player to be horrible pieces of software but I’m not referring to the software but instead the codecs used by those players. Right now Xine is fully capable of using Windows Media and Quicktime codecs but Novell does not want to provide them to their consumers, as well feels the need to go out of their way to cripple the players so consumers have difficulty installing the missing codecs.
“I have noticed that most Windows users seem to manage to watch Quicktime videos somehow; presumably if they can manage it the SuSE users will too?”
The reason some consumers of SuSE Linux are able to play a wider range of media than offered in the default installation is because of people such as myself. See my post here http://www.linuxforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=87247 titled “Video Player Solution” where I took time to explain a work around solution for Novell customers.
Is it possible to get SUSE’s KDE theme for other KDE desktops?
Also I never understood why KDE had its “Most Used Applications” so far away from the Kmenu button.
http://madpenguin.org/images/reviews/suse92/menu1.jpg
If it is most used, shouldn’t it be closer? It could be where “Run Command…” is or even as a panel applet button.
they had included DVD support out of the box. it’s not like I can’t find rpms with full version of xine/kaffeine and libdvdcss2, but it is a shame for a distro in Suse class not to include dvd support (or at least a way to buy it later, sort of like the linspire people offer). BTW, there was news some time ago about Cyberlink having released a version of their PowerDVD for linux, though not available for purchasing…only for OS providers (I think Turbolinux was offering it with their os).
If not willing to include it in the distro by default, Novell should offer dvd support for people who need it afterwards. A lot of us have laptops with at least a dvd-rom, so if suse worked so much to give us a working suspend-to-disk, why not give us a easy way to get dvd-movie support for the long hours on the go?
“they had included DVD support out of the box. it’s not like I can’t find rpms with full version of xine/kaffeine and libdvdcss2, but it is a shame for a distro in Suse class not to include dvd support (or at least a way to buy it later, sort of like the linspire people offer).”
windows doesnt provide it either. blame absurdely stupid laws and patents. no way to get out of them cleanly
Wishing isn’t going to make anything happen. Voicing your consumer concerns to Novell by mail will. Anyone that would like to contact Novell regarding missing codec support, etc can reach them at the Customer Response Center here [email protected] or toll free 1-888-321-4272.
I know windows doesn’t include dvd-playing software, but at least you can buy it after. BTW, how can linspire offer legal dvd playback software, and novell not??
@DARK_KNIGHT
Overall I like suse, but I am not a fan of RPM-based distros, and even though I have purchased suse before, I’m not going to do it again until they make it easy for us to get software for satisfying our multimedia needs. I hate having to figure what’s wrong after I uninstalled xine and kaffeine and installed the full versions along libdvdcss2, and why my dvds work, but behave strangely when fast-forwarding, etc. Not what I call solid multimedia support. If novell wants my money, they have to make it easy, and NO, I shouldn’t have to BEG for it! If they are a company who wants to survive in the future, they should do some f@%^&%$ market research and check what the regular users want from a OS! They should do that before releasing another os and then claiming that the real windows replacement is here!
BTW, I use ubuntu when not video-editing, web-authoring, and sound-editing.
If U like Suse and it’s faults, then Suse 9.2 is a must-have for you!
All in all, I find FC3 a bit cleaner and faster. And more stable.
But that could be my hardware.
NLD9 looks nice but that’s it. It’s for desktop use but I tried my local machine sometimes as a web server and other daemons are really usefull.
What I doesn’t like on all distributions: the really overpatched kernels!
Most problems I have is to include AVM-Capi drivers for european ISDN-card so I can fax.
Now, I use FC3 with a vanilla kernel (2.6.10rc3), but doesn’t have the extensions which FC3 offers (NX, ext3, SE,…)
I think, I reinstall FC3 on XFS filesystem w/o SELinux and w/o the other “goodies”, but with my goodies: latest ACPI, lates ISDN-Capi, latest DVB, latest Bluetooth, latest SWsuspend
Ok, all in all, I don’t need to compile so much like in my Slackware days, but I’m a kernel “maintainer” on my home machine 😉
A “My computer” icon? Seems like they are starting to hide things from users (mount points, device names, etc). Seems like an oversimplification to me. The “under-the-hood” way of doing things takes more effort up front, but once you have it down its not so bad, and you understand how things work a lot better. I prefer the rox-filer.. doesnt hide things from me (just an opinion) However, the desktop does look really good in the screenshots. I’m probably just a purist.
KDE: http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=158&slide=1
GNOME: http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=159&slide=1
I just finished installing SuSE 9.2 on my Toshiba Qosmio G15. Other than having to do the install under text (TruBright screen made framebuffer hard to see). until I could configure the the system. It runs solid on this system. I am confused about the no DVD playback. I have no trouble playing DVD’s on this since install. Is there something I am missing?
I’m itching to switch to Linux SUSE 9.2 after 6 years of M$ Winblowz hell (forgive me, I’m still on Windows XP 😮 )…
Bullcrap. There’s a perfectly easy way to get out it cleanly. BUY A LICENSE. Ship the decoder in the commercial version of the software only. Use the profits from this to pay the license fee. This is how everyone who ever sold anything that can play a DVD does it, what’s the problem with a Linux distro doing it?
What DVDs are you playing? You probably happened to pick unencryped ones (these *do* exist, they’re just kind of rare). Try something from a major Hollywood distributor, it won’t work.
This is not a review. I want to know about functionality. What worked? What didn’t? What should have worked better? Not just the install & what applications came with it.
For example: I downloaded & installed Fedora Core 3 & had a bitch of a time getting my cdrom to work correctly. Would it recognize audio cds? Yes! Would it read a single data disk – hell no! When I inserted a data cd my cdrom drive was locked — I even tried as ‘root’ with no luck. The only way I could eject a data cd was via a media application. Even remounting the disk option “-t auto” gave me no such luck!
Now something like this experience added to a review would make an article a review. How easy was it to use? Any issues? etc….
Actually, I’ve been using Suse 9.2 LiveCD for approx. 3 weeks, and have been very pleased. I applaud the Novell/Suse team.
cheers
Did you actually take the time to complain to Novell? Or did you just post the info? People also came here to read many different peoples opinions, not the same persons opinion in 10 different posts. If you don’t like it, then don’t bloody well use it. Novell is considering releasing the iso’s for free download (I heard this from someone who works for Novell over at http://www.linuxquestions.org, it was on one of the first days the suse forum was set up and he is one of the novell engineers that were helping out) so they cannot put the codecs in without taking a loss on it.
”
a company who wants to survive in the future, they should do some f@%^&%$ market research and check what the regular users want from a OS! They should do that before releasing another os and then claiming that the real windows replacement is here!
”
I doubt Novell makes most of their money on SUSE 9.2 Professional. Novell has stated only 10% of their income comes from their linux business right now. Now factor in their server linux solutions, so that probably leaves MAYBE between 0.5 and 1% of their sales at stake (considering how expensive their enterprise solutions are and the fact that they are number 2 for business…i think my percentage may have been a bit high). I don’t think you and some other distraught people on the net will dent their sales that overly much…never mind cause them not to “survive in the future” 😛
just go to packman site and downloading all the codecs you want!
For making SUSE Pro even better. For their generosity (they gave thousands of Technical Resource Kits, they gave a very nice fully working iso: 9.1 Personal, more than what you get from most commercial distro)
They have vision for the future, and young people realize that and adore them (I know what I am talking about)
Greedy for charging $90 for the best linux box? I don’t think so.
Now let’s make an example: when you install Fedora or Debian can you watch DVDs out of the box or do you have WMP or QuickTime support?
In the case of Debian you add Marillat.Free to your sources.list and there you go…
Similarly with SUSE you install apt4rpm and in no time you can have full multimedia support.
Don’t you like the hassle? Use Linspire! (a distribution that I like and respect, BTW)
Suse 9.2 Professional includes MP3 support right out of the box .. it’s a start at least.
.. on a related but off-topic note, why do some distros like to use the “because of license/patent issues” reasoning for not including certain propriety things when some others can?
compare mepis and fedora: both are free and have no commercial versions (meaning you can’t buy the exact same version as those you can download–in which case then, i can see how there would be legitimate licensing issues involving money for things like mp3), yet mepis includes nvidia drivers, flash, java, real player, and quicktime support .. ??
wonder hows the bluetooth support, is the usb dongle automatically detected? one of the main reasons why i stick to windows xp, bluetooth and real plug and play support.
What do you mean by Novell ‘crippling’ the media player?
That isn’t covered in either of the reviews that I can see.
I agree with the general sentiment that it’s a bit pathetic not to include proper codec support; it’s one thing in a free distro, but if you’re expected to pay a serious amount of money for SuSE/Novell then you’d think they could spend some of it on codecs.
But I do think it’s a bit harsh to blame SuSE because Microsoft and Apple are asshats with their media players.
“The reason some consumers of SuSE Linux are able to play a wider range of media than offered in the default installation is because of people such as myself”
Good on you. I have to confess I’d made the silly assumption that they might be able to use the included package manager to grab some codecs themselves. My Xine install works fine at wmv’s so I’d merely assumed it couldn’t be that difficult. Admittedly I haven’t looked at Quicktime yet, that’s about number 18 on the list of things to do…
Yeah, I hear ya there. I am also wondering if the USB hotplugging mess that was present in 9.1 has been completely fixed in 9.2. I pretty much wasted my money buying 9.1 when I found out the hard way that it’s USB hotplugging functionality was busted.
The evolution to exchange connector is included, the name is ximian-connector. I had to search for it too, because it isn’t installed by default. But after installing the connector everything worked fine.
I have suspend to disk and wireless working out of the box on a Sony Vaio laptop. Excellent distribution. Well worth the money for those of you whining about FTP installs.
Works fine with my iPod and mice on 9.2
Maybe your USB devices are “busted”, not SuSE? – I keep getting calls from a friend that his USB would be busted, too. When he hot-plugs a digi-cam, the system will crash, upon reboot the cam works. So this teaches us he ought to plug the cam *before* booting. However, this is his new cam, the old one worked just fine.
Now, here is the surprise for you, we aren’t talking SuSE here, but W2K SP4 in fact – lol.
So by your standards, The W2K implementation would be flawed after 5 years on the market, only because *your* device doesn’t work – I think not. USB works fine over here…
I have installed SuSE 9.2 with the fresh net-installer and a mounted dvd elsewhere.SuSE’s latest version is a very fine distribution.For me the King of all distro’s is the one that fits best in my hardware picture.From all distro’s i can say from testing numerous of distros that Mandrake 10.1 fits best with my PC hardware and peripherals.Mandrake is the only distro that installs automagically the niam-backhand so my Agfa Snapscan Touch USB scanner works right out of the box.Furthermore i dare to say that with a few mouse clicks Mandrake 10.1 is by far the most secure Linux distro that exists today,(when setting security to paranoid).For the real security die-hards it has the RSBAC compiled mandrake-secure kernel which features dramatically exeed that of SeLinux and consorts.One minor point is that it isn’t enabled in some light form but then again nor is Selinux on some distro’s.
Suse 9.2 looks polished but was not able to recognize my external Hard Drive, out of the box. It took some tweaking for it to work. Once configured suse is rock solid with no crash since 4 days. Mandrake 10.1 however is the only no-problem-distro, all my hardware is recognized and configured properly. I have Mandrake 10.0 system running at home since 6 months- It plays the dual purpose of being my desktop and proxy server for my wifes and brothers comp. Since 6 months I have not shut it down, despite my very strong urge to do a fresh install of 10.1 on it.
For the time being I am sticking to MAndrake.
Actually both Windows Media Player and Quicktime play their respective codecs.
You are saying that Windows Media Player plays its own codecs and Quicktime plays its own codecs? I think we were all aware of that. I believe Windows Media Player will even play Quicktime files, however I believe this requires the Quicktime codecs to be installed (AFAIK they aren’t included in WMP).
“Real Player may be okay for a few users but the majority of consumers use either Windows Media or Quicktime to play video. “
Sorry to come in late on this, but on my Mandrake system I have mplayer with all the codecs from PLF as well as RP10. But I play video material in realplayer format more than any other. ie I get my news videos from the BBC and download music videos from Punkcast where most videos are in real.
However I do agree that Novell should provide more video codec support for the commerial releases of SUSE.
hmm, my usb device is broken? doubt it, been using it in windows xp with no problems, well i’ll jez have to try suse 9.2 when its on ftp install
“i can see how there would be legitimate licensing issues involving money for things like mp3), yet mepis includes nvidia drivers, flash, java, real player, and quicktime support .. ??”
and now what exactly are you trying to say here..? So SuSE got all of these, hence all the stuff you want it to have.
My bad, I should have cleared it up a bit for everyone. SuSE 9.1 had problems with automounting USB flash keys and media readers, or “hotplugging” those devices if you will. Your usual USB equipment worked most of the time. For flash keys and such you had to disable supermount, manually stick entries in /etc/fstab and hope it would work, and that’s after you rebooted with the device connected. Hence, my conclusion that USB hotplugging functionality is busted in 9.1. Also, hit the forums and check it out. Mind you, my keys work in XP (of course), Xandros, and Fedora. I just hope they didn’t screw the pooch on it this time around.
Contrarily to what is written in the article in MadPenguin, evolution connector is available in the distribution. The name of the package is “ximian-connector”.
I see a lot of links online to buy 9.2 pro, but none for the non-pro version. will this be available for purchase as well or is it all pro from here on?
Also, although the review gives novell a thumbs up for keeping suse in the right hands, they need to fire whoever designed the new website. It’s impossible to find anything on it besides Novell desktop. I pretty much always resort to google searches that point me to older classic looking suse pages.
The old suse page was so clean and easy to use. Had no problems finding what I wanted.
Re: “Did you actually take the time to complain to Novell?”
Yes and the response was that they are working on a solution. Whether that means they’ll pay Microsoft and Apple to use their licensed codecs I don’t know.
Re: “People also came here to read many different peoples opinions, not the same persons opinion in 10 different posts. If you don’t like it, then don’t bloody well use it.”
I think you need to get your eyes checked as I posted 3 times total prior to this post. The original one was titled “Only real issue” which was my concern of the missing codecs and crippled video player. This comes not only from myself, a SuSE Linux customer since version 9.0 but also others that have complained about it on other forums. It’s also reason why I posted the link in my previous post to help those resolve codec issues for video playback. Anyway, the other two posts were replies to comments directed to my original post. Do the math and you’ll see there’s isn’t 10 posts by me.
Re: “Novell is considering releasing the iso’s for free download (I heard this from someone who works for Novell over at http://www.linuxquestions.org, it was on one of the first days the suse forum was set up and he is one of the novell engineers that were helping out) so they cannot put the codecs in without taking a loss on it.”
SuSE Linux Professional has always been offered for free download via FTP installation typically two months after the initial retail release date. Since Novell has axed SuSE Linux Personal and the ISO option I highly doubt their going to offer one for SuSE Linux Professional. Reason I believe this is because it wouldn’t make good marketing sense to do so. They already provide the LiveCD/DVD and FTP Install method which should be adequate. I won’t complain if they do provide ISO download as an option. Though I would tend to believe a representive from Novell’s customer response center than someone claiming to work for them then posting on LinuxQuestions.org. I already posted it but since you seem to have overlooked my actual posts here’s their e-mail [email protected].
Re: “a company who wants to survive in the future, they should do some f@%^&%$ market research and check what the regular users want from a OS! They should do that before releasing another os and then claiming that the real windows replacement is here”
Okay now you seriously need an eye exam as this comment is not from any of my posts. If you’re going to comment on someone’s comment then make sure you direct it to the actual person and not someone else.
Also, it’s not that difficult to use OSNews. If you feel the need to comment on an article or post simply post your name or an alias in the field “Your name” and not just leave it blank, etc. This way when someone such as myself is replying to you we don’t have to refer to you as “Anonymous (IP: —.cg.shawcable.net)”. After all you’re not the only Shaw Cable customer.
Suse 9.2 Professional includes MP3 support right out of the box .. it’s a start at least.
.. on a related but off-topic note, why do some distros like to use the “because of license/patent issues” reasoning for not including certain propriety things when some others can?
Suse 9.2 Professional is a commercial distro. Novell paid the license fee to include proprietary support on Suse 9.2. Dare you try to implement proprietary support without approval on a free distro, you are subject for lawsuit.
compare mepis and fedora: both are free and have no commercial versions (meaning you can’t buy the exact same version as those you can download–in which case then, i can see how there would be legitimate licensing issues involving money for things like mp3), yet mepis includes nvidia drivers, flash, java, real player, and quicktime support .. ??
Is Mepis a non-profit distro like Debian? Since Fedora is sonspored by Red Hat, it makes a bigger target for lawsuit if it ever includes proprietary softwares. Blame patent laws for that.
Aaron,
Novell since acquiring SuSE Linux AG has been slowly trying to redirect traffic to their company site. This started with the change of the wording below the SuSE Linux gecko to now directing the reader to http://www.novell.com/linux/suse/index.html This actually makes marketing sense since Novell provides a variety of business and private user solutions to consumers and can best do this by directing you to their site. So if you want to see other products offered by Novell that may suit your needs simply use the drop down menu for things such as “Solutions”, “Products”, etc.
As for Novell offering a Personal Edition I believe they have since axed that line due to either lack of interest or lack of profit margin with the product. You should see SuSE Linux Professional being offered for free via FTP server installation in another month or so. Typically the free FTP install method is offered around 2 months after the initial retail release.
I don’t see Novell paying too much attention to the SuSE icon, the green lizard. Where is it? Is Novell dump it?
In addition to what FinalZone said (which is correct), there’s the MP3 issue. Fedora don’t include MP3 decoding in their free distribution; SuSE and Mandrake (and others) do. This is basically an issue of conservatism. The owners of the patent on MP3 decoding, the Fraunhofer Institute, usually enforce a license fee for software MP3 decoding. (Microsoft, Apple and anyone else who sells software that decodes MP3 files pay Fraunhofer for the privilege). Fraunhofer have previously made a statement that they will not enforce their licensing scheme against distributors of free software which decodes MP3 files. This is not legally binding nor is it written down anywhere. Mandrake and SuSE consider that to be enough to go on, and include MP3 decoding without paying Fraunhofer. Red Hat have decided it’s not a strong enough guarantee, so they don’t include MP3 decoding. It’s a more conservative but safer stance.
To clarify… Ximian connector is NOT on the CD distribution of SUSE 9.2 (as the Mad Penguin article states) but is included on the DVD. Why they did that I’m not quite sure, but at least it’s a clear issue now