Home > NetBSD > NetBSD 2.0 Officially Available NetBSD 2.0 Officially Available Submitted by ephemeral 2004-12-09 NetBSD 33 Comments The long wait for NetBSD 2.0 is over, the official release is here. About The Author Eugenia Loli Ex-programmer, ex-editor in chief at OSNews.com, now a visual artist/filmmaker. Follow me on Twitter @EugeniaLoli 33 Comments 2004-12-09 9:19 pm Can someone using NetBSD for long tell me if there is another option for java programming in this OS than using any linux port of the jdk. I mean something native to the OS, not linux compatibility mode. I just downloaded 2.0 and would like to try. 2004-12-09 9:27 pm Can someone using NetBSD for long tell me if there is another option for java programming in this OS than using any linux port of the jdk. I mean something native to the OS, not linux compatibility mode. I just downloaded 2.0 and would like to try. Some options: * Compile a native version of Sun’s 1.4 JDK. This is possible with the jdk14 pkgsrc-wip package. Have a look at these two sites for more information: http://pkgsrc.netbsd.se/?cat=wip&pkg=1766 http://pkgsrc-wip.sourceforge.net/ * Use the old native precompiled JDK 1.1.8 version. I suppose that JDK 1.1.8 doesn’t do JIT yet, because it is a lot slower than 1.4. Or try one of the free alternatives, like Wonka or Kaffe. But I have to remark that the Linux version of Sun’s JDK works pretty well on NetBSD 2.0. Just set the ulimits described in the installation message, and mount procfs with the linux option. 2004-12-09 9:31 pm We’re announcing support for OSS on NetBSD 2.0 on the x86 platform. You can get the free-for-personal-use version of OSS at http://www.opensound.com/download.cgi (Eugenia: Sorry for plugging our product here – but I thought it might be relevant to NetBSD users) best regards Dev Mazumdar 2004-12-09 9:36 pm You may want to try one of the free VM’s; I’d say the interpreting VMs are more probable to run (SableVM, gij) than the ones using JITs (kaffe might run well though). Each VM usually comes bundled with a compiler so you’ll have a halfway complete JDK. Why don’t you want to try Sun’s JDK in emulation mode? I’ve heard good things about NetBSD Linux emulation, there should be no significant performance penalty… 2004-12-09 10:08 pm is there a recipe to get nvidia drivers working with the xorg for netbsd 2.0? 2004-12-09 10:11 pm Sorry to turn your commercial into a conversation, but I’m curious why you’d target NetBSD as an OS to sell towards. It seems like an amazingly small market to target, especially with something that doesn’t seem like it would be portable to other platforms (such as a sound system..). So, what gives? Why target highly specific code towards a very rarely used OS? 2004-12-09 10:21 pm but I’m curious why you’d target NetBSD as an OS to sell towards. It seems like an amazingly small market to target, especially with something that doesn’t seem like it would be portable to other platforms (such as a sound system..) Glad you asked….yes NetBSD is a miniscule market for us. But supporting NetBSD is no more difficult than supporting OpenBSD or FreeBSD or DragonFly. The nice thing about BSD is that there is a kernel API and things rarely change (unlike Linux which keeps changing with each point revision). For us, it’s a matter of engineering pride like it’s for the NetBSD guys – we want to see how many different UNIX versions can be supported off a single code base – just like how many different CPU versions can be supported off a single code base for NetBSD. We have a “build it and they will come” attitude at 4Front. best regards Dev Mazumdar 2004-12-09 10:27 pm I know I’m not the one you asked, but I can give a shot to some possible reasons (which may or may not be same ones they have). Maybe they just believe in the potential of the platform? Maybe they believe that once things are available, more people will use it, and “very rarely used” will be a thing of the past? I can remember when most people would tell you “linux will never become popular… why use something like that” and I can remember when most people would say “why do i need windows when i have MS-DOS?” (or Amiga or Mac…) “vary few people use the platform” is not the best argument for not supporting a particular os. 2004-12-09 10:51 pm “The nice thing about BSD is that there is a kernel API and things rarely change (unlike Linux which keeps changing with each point revision)” guys. your api doesnt change because it doesnt evolve. the kernel internal api rapidly changes in Linux to accomodate market needs not because developers like to keep changing the api. the kernel to user level has been kept fairly stable. you can talk about your merits instead of trying to deride something else just because it happens to be popular 2004-12-09 10:53 pm it is also evident you specifically mention Linux because it has depreciated your api in favor of ALSA with dmix. small thoughts 2004-12-09 10:59 pm “guys. your api doesnt change because it doesnt evolve. the kernel internal api rapidly changes in Linux to accomodate market needs not because developers like to keep changing the api.” I don’t think you’re aware of quite how idiotic that statement was, otherwise you would not have made it. A well designed API does not change every point revision. Linux’s API changes because that’s simply Linus’ development style, he doesn’t hold back if he thinks it’s an improvement. The market does not demand it, if anything the market I’m sure would prefer a more stable API because it would mean less pissing about keeping up with the changes. I mean, when the nvidia driver doesn’t work from one 2.6.x release to the next, that actually annoys people, y’know. I don’t think anybody desires it. 2004-12-09 11:23 pm it is also evident you specifically mention Linux because it has depreciated your api in favor of ALSA with dmix. ALSA’s DMIX is a toy!. Try doing any thing useful. We already have the Virtual Mixer in Linux and BSD. Why don’t you compare SNR or other things audio realted – you seem to only know ALSA’s side of the story. See how many apps still use OSS API!. Just wait until we announce 4.0. We cannot compete with GPL and religion, but based purely on a technical aspect, OSS is better for programmers and easier for users. best regards Dev 2004-12-09 11:39 pm the kernel to user level has been kept fairly stable. you can talk about your merits instead of trying to deride something else just because it happens to be popular Not deriding Linux but pointing out that NetBSD went from 1.6 to 2.0 with minimal changes to the driver API. Solaris went from 9 to 10 with minimal impact on driver/kernel interfaces. DragonFly forked from FreeBSD with minimal changes to their driver/kernel APIs. Linux goes from 2.6.9 to 2.6.10 and all hell breaks loose because they’ve added udev and pulled out the old UNIX style /dev or they pulled /proc/ksyms and renamed it to /proc/kallsyms or they removed virt_to_phys and renamed it to something else. USB subsystem scripts on SuSE are totally different from Fedora. Nvidia drivers broke on 2.6.9 because they removed __VMALLOC_RESERVE. Need I go on? I’m sure you get my point. I’m talking from a kernel developer angle, you’re looking from a user API which sure doesn’t change and they can’t! or you’d be hearing for Linus Torvald’s head! Best regards Dev Mazumdar 2004-12-09 11:42 pm Quoting from the website: “Open Sound System comes with a free evaluation license key that will allow you to run OSS for a limited time after which you will need to download and install OSS again.Open Sound System is not freeware but commercial product. The software itself is freely downloadable from our web site. However it needs a run time license to work. The software package itself contains a time limited evaluation license which installs automatically. To remove the time limit you will need to purchase a permanent license from our web site or any of our official distributors.” Which by no means sounds ‘free for personal use.’ Sounds much more like crippled until purchased. 2004-12-09 11:49 pm It’s just old information. We need to update the website info. If you downloaded OSS and actually ran the software, it doesn’t timeout or anything. It just says *UNREGISTERD VERSION* Yes, OSS comes with a 3 month license and after 3months, you download OSS again and install it again and run it for another 3 months. But during that period OSS doesn’t have any time limitations. Again, we are a small company and we don’t have a dedicated webmaster. We’ll update the information right away and sorry for any miscommunication on our part. best regards Dev Mazumdar 2004-12-09 11:59 pm Your reply first states: ” If you downloaded OSS and actually ran the software, it doesn’t timeout or anything.” Next line: “Yes, OSS comes with a 3 month license and after 3months, you download OSS again and install it again and run it for another 3 months.” Sorry, doesn’t cut it at all. Either it is free for personal use (not free for 3 months and then dead) or it ISN’T free for personal use. TCP/IP stack free for personal use for three months, then, no TCP/IP stack, gotta reinstall. Not quite right, eh? Sound is one of the things I enjoy (streaming audio) in my retirement. 2004-12-09 11:59 pm Dang, I just checked out the screenshots linked at distrowatch.com: http://hup.hu/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=7542 and wondered what is this “sushi” program that I’ve never heard of before: http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/netbsd/2001-q1/0003.html http://man.netbsd.se/?find=sushi+8+161 Really, this kind of features should be advertised more. It’s not like NetBSD is TOO user-friendly… 2004-12-10 12:02 am After the install is done, I remember one of the reminders tells you to check man afterboot, from which page _I_ found out about sushi. Quite the little gem hidden well, I agree. 2004-12-10 12:11 am Just exactly what is it you want?. You want that we should go hungry and put our houses for sale and start living off food stamps and unemployment money? 3 months is long enough for any software use – if you want to run something for free that’s a small price to pay to download the drivers and install them again. If you are running a business off our software, you should respect our terms and pay $30 for the license. After all you get paid for your job, why shouldn’t developers like us? If you’re smart, you can start a cron job to update OSS automatically after 3 months. best regards Dev Mazumdar 2004-12-10 12:17 am I do not run a business. As I said, I am retired. Mozilla is free, and does not require a new download and reinstallation every three months. OpenOffice.org is free and does not require a new download and reinstall every three months, Abiword is free and does not require a new download and install every three months. None of these stop working and require reinstallation every 3 months. If something is touted as free for personal use (AVG from grisoft.cz, AdAware from Lavasoft, kerio personal firewall, etc, etc.) they do NOT stop working after three months. If something stops working after three months, it is a demo, or sometimes referred to as crippled. Label should reflect product, cron job not needed for mozilla et al. 2004-12-10 12:40 am OSS is, in fact, free for personal use. You can use it, for free, for non-commercial purposes. That’s pretty damn clear. Adam 2004-12-10 12:44 am Egon, Point well taken!. We’ll make necessary changes to OSS when the v4.0 comes out next year. We just hope that we don’t go bankrupt doing this. Mozilla is funded (was) by AOL, Lavasoft’s adaware is functionally restricted compared to the Professional version. Abiword doesn’t compare to OO.org. OO.org is functionally restricted compared to Star Office that you must pay for from Sun. What you get from us is the Professional/Enterprise/Guru version. There’s no restriction on functionality – just time. best regards Dev Mazumdar 2004-12-10 1:10 am Also, point conceded on your side. So, since I have a Yamaha DS-XG (YMF744/754) card, will this OSS do for me, or will I need the 15 USD lowlevel as well? 2004-12-10 1:12 am No, running for 3 months and then dying is 3 month demo. 2004-12-10 2:12 am I am surprised vendors don’t pick up NetBSD like hotcakes, not every appliance out there is anemic on memory and requires a RTOS. Seems like NetBSD would port to darn near anything… 2004-12-10 3:49 am We’re running NetBSD on PowerPC (Xilinx FPGA core) with the help of the good folks at Wasabi Systems. It’s a derivative of the ‘evbppc’ architecture port. I have to admit to being damn delighted about the whole process. -*ROCK*- Solid stuff, and running *BSD on an embedded target (a 64 bit embedded target at that) has a cool factor that is just off the scale. 2004-12-10 4:06 am It is nice to see that somone is taking advantage of this very good code! 2004-12-10 10:03 am Where can I find the package CDs? 2004-12-10 12:34 pm Can be NetBSD ported to MMUless cpus ? 2004-12-10 2:43 pm I am an OS junkie, I installed the NetBSD right, however now I have to figure out how to get my NVIDIA card detected and working. My initial experience says that it is quite snappy and responsive. Any help appreciated. 2004-12-10 5:52 pm Holy crap, that sounds just like smitty on aix ! I think I need to go take another look at NetBSD. 2004-12-10 6:26 pm Could you people be alittle MORE off topic!? Congrats to the NetBSD team. NetBSD is by far my favorite OS. Clean, simple, small, secure, logical, pwnage. Keep up the good work. And cheers Dev Mazumdar. Nice work. -Adapt 2004-12-11 1:51 am > now I have to figure out how to get my NVIDIA card detected and working If you are on x86 you might take a look: http://www.tecneeq.de/files/dotfiles/etc/X11/XF86Config-NetBSD-i386 That works for me with different nvidia-cards (tnt2 and a geforce 4). Mouse is a Logitech with Wheel on PS2. Of course you have to change the keyboardlayout and the values in section “Monitor”. Good luck .